Reflecting on the 'Barry to Liverpool' saga

wynters

A Scouser mate of mine mentioned over the weekend that it Steven Gerrard's 30th birthday on Sunday... which got us talking again about the whole 'Barry to Liverpool' saga of a couple of summers ago.

Looking back on it all, it's interesting to note the various knock-on effects Barry moving to City has had on a few different clubs and players...

VILLA
-Villa get £12m for Barry. A player with only one year left on his Villa contract. (Which was £2m more than Liverpools opening bid for Barry a year previously).
- Downing signed from Boro.
- Allowing MILNER to take Barrys place in central midfield where he becomes PFA Young player of the year and is now valued @ £30m +

LIVERPOOL
- Xabi ALONSO (understandably disgruntled at Rafa's pursuit of Barry at his expense) moves on.
- Liverpool don’t replace him properly, suffer their worst season in years, fail to qualify for the Champions League, and get overtaken by Villa in the Premier League. At a time when their most influencial players are aging (Gerrard now 30, Carragher 32)

BORO
- Downing signs for Villa, so Adam JOHNSON gets a more regular place in the Boro side.
- He does well. Earns a move to Man City.
- And overtakes Downing in the England squad pecking order.

Not to forget BARRY himself – who moved for "better prospects of CL football". Barry also turns 30 during the 10/11 season. Traditionally a watershed age for central midfield players in terms of their level of influence beginning to wain...

Would any of that had happened if Barry had stayed at Villa?

Looking back at it all – I can’t help thinking that Villa haven’t done too badly out of that move.

Essien

Re: Liverpool
There was a big Xabi Alonso shaped hole in their midfield last season alright but I think its a bit strong to say their shocking season was all down to missing 1 player.

keane2097

Essien wrote: »

Re: Liverpool
There was a big Xabi Alonso shaped hole in their midfield last season alright but I think its a bit strong to say their shocking season was all down to missing 1 player.

Not a whole lot else changed in their squad...

EDIT: Great OP by the way, interesting topic to look back on with a cool head IMO.

TonyD79

The right back who left to go to Real Madrid wouldnt have jumped out of the way of a beach ball!!! Benitiz wouldnt pay the 18 million asking price for Barry yet sold the guy he would have replaced by all accounts for 30 million? B.D.W Milner is not a 30 million pound player maybe to City though.

smackbunnybaby

Essien wrote: »

Re: Liverpool
There was a big Xabi Alonso shaped hole in their midfield last season alright but I think its a bit strong to say their shocking season was all down to missing 1 player.

I would be inclined to disagree.
Alonso was class and he dictated play. He rarely gave the ball away.
Technically he was light years ahead of Gerrard.

When Liverpool lost Alonso, they lost the one intelligent player in the team who could keep the ball ALL THE TIME.

Therefore they gave away more goals as their defence is really not up to it anyway. Alonso lessened the amount of time the defence had to deal with balls into the box.

~Rebel~

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

I would be inclined to disagree.
Alonso was class and he dictated play. He rarely gave the ball away.
Technically he was light years ahead of Gerrard.

When Liverpool lost Alonso, they lost the one intelligent player in the team who could keep the ball ALL THE TIME.

Therefore they gave away more goals as their defence is really not up to it anyway. Alonso lessened the amount of time the defence had to deal with balls into the box.

I dunno...I wouldn't be too quick to blame the goals on a lack of Alonso. The mistakes made in the first half of the season were glaring terrible errors. Carra being beaten in the air in situations he would never have been beaten in before. Skrtel having his team mate break his jaw in the first 20minutes of the season.

Then, with no changes in personal really, in the second half of the season the defenders started doing the normal things properly again and pool conceded the least goals in the league from there on in.

Also, in terms of possession, possession was not the issue, pool were drawing tonnes of games with all the possession but nothing in the final 3rd. Alonso was definately a loss in that regard, but more with his ability to spot a clever pass then keeping posession (we did weaken a little in that regard, but not much imo - not 20 odd points worth)

smackbunnybaby

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Alonso was definately a loss in that regard, but more with his ability to spot a clever pass then keeping posession (we did weaken a little in that regard, but not much imo - not 20 odd points worth)

This as well! As you pointed out, far too many 0-0s versus inferior teams.

Lucas > Barry

keane2097

rarnes1 wrote: »

Lucas > Barry

You win the thread

\o/

Lukker-

Alonso would generally always start the attack, feeding the ball to Gerrard or the wide-men. Now Gerrard drops deep to often because it seems he almost doesn't trust Aqualaini to do the same. As a result, Gerrard isn't in his more preferred advanced role as often and when Torres was fit they didn't like as effectively.

The Recliner

I would saw the buttload of players who got sent off trying to get the ball off Alonso also played a part in the differing seasons

neil_18_

That was a good read, interesting how one move effects so many people.

PHB

I don't think Barry as is as good as Alonso frankly. Different sorts of players, but Alonso is in a different class. Not so sure that Barry woulda replaced him.

KittyeeTrix

Agree with Neil18, a very interesting read and certainly one which has, I feel many truths in it

Essien

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

I would be inclined to disagree.
Alonso was class and he dictated play. He rarely gave the ball away.
Technically he was light years ahead of Gerrard.

When Liverpool lost Alonso, they lost the one intelligent player in the team who could keep the ball ALL THE TIME.

Therefore they gave away more goals as their defence is really not up to it anyway. Alonso lessened the amount of time the defence had to deal with balls into the box.

I see what your saying but Liverpool got 20+ points less than the season before, I just can't see it being down to one player, he was a huge loss though and certainly the biggest factor in their season being so poor.
Gerrard not performing and Torres spending so much time out injured didn't help either. If they can keep Torres at the club and fit I think they will do a hell of a lot better next season.

Edit: Sorry if I'm going off topic

eZe^

Be better to assess this next season, when Rafa's replacement for Alonso is actually given the opportunity to prove himself (which I think he will).

invinciblePRSTV

It all worked out well in the end for everyone; Villa got another season out of Barry and 12m whilst Milner earned his spurs on thr wing, Barry got 100k a week and City got a proven PL performer.

As for Pool, lets just say us Villa fans pointed out the obvious flaws in Pools management and ownership long before most Pool fans copped on to their uselessness. No need to thank us Villa fans for pointing out the obvious to Liverpool thread regulars, we don't mind.

Royale with Cheese

Arsenal were another party involved in this. Alonso would have moved there if Barry had gone to Liverpool.

Savman

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

No need to thank us Villa fans for pointing out the obvious to Liverpool thread regulars, we don't mind.

Run and hide!

micks

eZe^ wrote: »

Be better to assess this next season, when Rafa's replacement for Alonso is actually given the opportunity to prove himself (which I think he will).

Maybe a replacement for Alonso will be bought this summer.

Mr. Guappa

I suppose you could put Spurs down as a beneficiary in this saga so, if you are of the view that Alonso leaving had a negative impact on Liverpool last season.

Pepe LeFrits

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Arsenal were another party involved in this. Alonso would have moved there if Barry had gone to Liverpool.

A damn shame. Song, Alonso and Fabregas would have been an immense midfield.

wynters

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

As for Pool, lets just say us Villa fans pointed out the obvious flaws in Pools management and ownership long before most Pool fans copped on to their uselessness. No need to thank us Villa fans for pointing out the obvious to Liverpool thread regulars, we don't mind.

Indeed. So much for "FACTS" and "Guarantee's".

Mr Alan

god, Villa fans on a high horse after finishing a couple of points ahead of us after your best season in recent memory, and us having our worst, how tiresome :rolleyes:

wynters

Without wishing to get drawn into an unnecessary exchange, you can thank seasons of misplaced scouse arrogance for any current Villa triumphalisms. Or that of Spurs. Or City for that matter...!

And you can get used to it! Villa have the last 2 PFA Young players of the year on the bounce. Great Manager. Great chairman. Ground redevelopment about to get underway...

'Doubt you'll be catching Spurs or City anytime soon either with their comparitive circumstances.

Thank you Rafa. I take it that dish you've been served is cold...

Mr Alan

great manager? lol you're fan base is pretty 50-50 on whether he should get sacked. As for young players of the year, one has regressed and looks more like a flash in the pan than the emergence of a top player, the other looks like he may be on his way as soon as a bigger club has shown an interest. My club is ****ed, i ain't doubting it, but it being ****ed is it being now at the same level as Villa. Remember that before ya get too smug

flahavaj

eZe^ wrote: »

Be better to assess this next season, when Rafa's replacement for Alonso is actually given the opportunity to prove himself (which I think he will).

From what I've seen of Aqiuilani (if thats who you mean) I don't think he's a direct replacement for Alonso.

I do think that if he stays fit he could be a very good player for Liverpool next season though.

LuckyLloyd

wynters wrote: »

Without wishing to get drawn into an unnecessary exchange, you can thank seasons of misplaced scouse arrogance for any current Villa triumphalisms. Or that of Spurs. Or City for that matter...!

And you can get used to it! Villa have the last 2 PFA Young players of the year on the bounce. Great Manager. Great chairman. Ground redevelopment about to get underway...

'Doubt you'll be catching Spurs or City anytime soon either with their comparitive circumstances.

Thank you Rafa. I take it that dish you've been served is cold...

Weren't you guys discussing whether to keep him or let him go at the end of this season?

LuckyLloyd

flahavaj wrote: »

From what I've seen of Aqiuilani (if thats who you mean) I don't think he's a direct replacement for Alonso.

I do think that if he stays fit he could be a very good player for Liverpool next season though.

Yes, they're very different. One is a deep lying strings puller, the other is a guy to play higher up the pitch and get in and around the striker (s).

wynters

Mr Alan wrote: »

great manager? lol you're fan base is pretty 50-50 on whether he should get sacked. As for young players of the year, one has regressed and looks more like a flash in the pan than the emergence of a top player, the other looks like he may be on his way as soon as a bigger club has shown an interest. My club is ****ed, i ain't doubting it, but it being ****ed is it being now at the same level as Villa. Remember that before ya get too smug

A. It's nowhere NEAR 50-50. Of the internet frequenting, teenage, Championship-Manager demographic - whom incidentally also think we should be signing Lionel Messi! then yep - 'could well be 50-50 there alright. But of the rest, who are old enough to actually know what they're talking about, the vast majority are firmly in O'Neill's corner. The minority, whose opinion I still respect, only want a change to progress the club quicker i.e. to move even further above Liverpool.

B. If you're up for it, I'll wager James Milner will still be a Villa player come September 1st. MON and Lerner have both said he won't be sold. Have you not learned what that means from two summers ago?

C. "now at the same level as Villa" Passing strangers is all, of entirely different wealths and sophistications. Villa on the way up. Pool on the way down.

Mr Alan

wow at least Liverpool have won a lot of stuff to have a bit of arrogance about them. your own seems to be based on a 6th place finish. strange.

flahavaj

Why do Villa rile you up so much Al?

Mr Alan

they don't really, their manager does-cause he is over-rated massively,gets a free ride from the media, and is a bit of a tool imo. some of their fans too, cause they display the kinda tossery nonsense we've seen in this thread-thinking they're the new ac milan cause of two 6th place finishes, however i'm quite fond of some of their players.

ShamoBuc

wynters wrote: »

Villa on the way up. Pool on the way down.

Bookmarked for future reference:D

JPA

So this thread went a predicatable route reaaaalllll fast.

Mr Alan

the OP's intention was to praise Villa, while gettin a boot in on Liverpool. hardly surprising the route its taken.

JPA

Mr Alan wrote: »

the OP's intention was to praise Villa, while gettin a boot in on Liverpool. hardly surprising the route its taken.

Seems like he is posting facts.

It's interesting that 2 years on this topic still rumbles away with much anger.

Mr Alan

JPA wrote: »

Seems like he is posting facts.

Well it all depends wat info is put forward and the point that poster is trying to make, for example, i could say Villa sold their captain to a rival, that rival that overtook them this season-i could also say that last season Villa were the nearest genuine challengers for CL ball, this year Spurs, City, Villa and Liverpool all fought it out for that 4 spot, so with the league looking more competitive than ever and Lerners SERIOUS investment into Villa supposedly slowing down, that in hindsight they may have missed their chance at CL football by selling Barry at all. Also, the precedent its set is that their best players are available at the right price, hence the Milner situation this summer, he's seen Barry move closer to Cl Football by getting his move afterall. All those things are also facts.

wynters

I refer to my earlier post... you have years of scouse arrogance to thank for current attitudes towards Liverpool FC.

Liverpool were a great club - No Question. Despite the success in the 70s and 80s, they still managed to retain a salt-of-the-earth nature about them. Not only were they Champions, they were the peoples champions too, and I had the utmost repsect for them... until Rafa came in and changed that ethos. His arrogance has relayed to fans over time, and external attitudes towards the club have turned on their head. Don't get me wrong, a pantomime villain adds a bit of theatre to the game, but Rafa and Liverpool fans were downright disrespectful to other clubs in recent years... so Liverpool can't expect to get much sympathy.

What goes around comes around!

flahavaj

wynters wrote: »

I refer to my earlier post... you have years of scouse arrogance to thank for current attitudes towards Liverpool FC.

Liverpool were a great club - No Question. Despite the success in the 70s and 80s, they still managed to retain a salt-of-the-earth nature about them. Not only were they Champions, they were the peoples champions too, and I had the utmost repsect for them... until Rafa came in and changed that ethos. His arrogance has relayed to fans over time, and external attitudes towards the club have turned on their head. Don't get me wrong, a pantomime villain adds a bit of theatre to the game, but Rafa and Liverpool fans were downright disrespectful to other clubs in recent years... so Liverpool can't expect to get much sympathy.

What goes around comes around!

I don't particularly like the man, but I can't say Benitez has ever struck me as an arrogant person.

Stubborn, frustrating, even pig headed yes, but arrogant, no.

I actually thought your OP was quite interesting and genuine, but its obvious now what your game really was. Pity.

Mr Alan

wynters wrote: »

I refer to my earlier post... you have years of scouse arrogance to thank for current attitudes towards Liverpool FC.

Liverpool were a great club - No Question. Despite the success in the 70s and 80s, they still managed to retain a salt-of-the-earth nature about them. Not only were they Champions, they were the peoples champions too, and I had the utmost repsect for them... until Rafa came in and changed that ethos. His arrogance has relayed to fans over time, and external attitudes towards the club have turned on their head. Don't get me wrong, a pantomime villain adds a bit of theatre to the game, but Rafa and Liverpool fans were downright disrespectful to other clubs in recent years... so Liverpool can't expect to get much sympathy.

What goes around comes around!

You should've just made this your OP. So predictable its actually pretty boring.

JPA

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well it all depends wat info is put forward and the point that poster is trying to make, for example, i could say Villa sold their captain to a rival, that rival that overtook them this season-i could also say that last season Villa were the nearest genuine challengers for CL ball, this year Spurs, City, Villa and Liverpool all fought it out for that 4 spot, so with the league looking more competitive than ever and Lerners SERIOUS investment into Villa supposedly slowing down, that in hindsight they may have missed their chance at CL football by selling Barry at all. Also, the precedent its set is that their best players are available at the right price, hence the Milner situation this summer, he's seen Barry move closer to Cl Football by getting his move afterall. All those things are also facts.

Well that's just twisting things to suit what you're saying. I mean Milner has been much better than Barry was for Villa has been pretty average at City.
Also Barry was available at the right price to City and Liverpool and that is because he wanted to leave. It's not a case of money talks for Villa, the opposite really. Milner has shown nothing to suggest he wants to leave.

wynters

Stop reading it then!

Mr Alan

i ain't betting on it. i'm not sure if he'll leave cause City don't really need him. and United won't be arsed paying that much money for him, but both could have him if they paid 25m-30m. as i said, Villas top players are for sale at the right price. thats the precedent selling Barry has set.

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

i ain't betting on it. i'm not sure if he'll leave cause City don't really need him. and United won't be arsed paying that much money for him, but both could have him if they paid 25m-30m. as i said, Villas top players are for sale at the right price. thats the precedent selling Barry has set.

I have no problem with the notion that Villa's players are for sale at the right price to the right bidder (aren't everyone's?). But didn't Barry want out of Villa anyway?

Mr Alan

yea, he did. so will 99.9% of players when a bigger more illustrious club comes in for them.

JPA

Mr Alan wrote: »

i ain't betting on it. i'm not sure if he'll leave cause City don't really need him. and United won't be arsed paying that much money for him, but both could have him if they paid 25m-30m. as i said, Villas top players are for sale at the right price. thats the precedent selling Barry has set.

That's just not true Mr Alan, (can I call you Alan?!).
Barry wanted to leave, unhappy players are not wanted, Villa set his price, it was not met. He stayed for a season, his price declined but villa still got a hefty price.

If Torres put in a transfer request in the morning what would happen?

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

yea, he did. so will 99.9% of players when a bigger more illustrious club comes in for them.

Or City.:pac:

Mr Alan

did Barry put in a transfer request? (i already know the answer to that by the way )

JPA

Mr Alan wrote: »

did Barry put in a transfer request? (i already know the answer to that by the way )

Did he?

Mr Alan

JPA wrote: »

Did he?

No, he didn't.