Interesting "presents" your cat has brought home!

BrigR

A cat we had when I still lived with the parents was very fair about her presents, she chewed them up in three parts and deposited a lump of rodent in front of everybody's beds, preferably in the slippers to keep the present safe...

Graces7

BrigR wrote: »

A cat we had when I still lived with the parents was very fair about her presents, she chewed them up in three parts and deposited a lump of rodent in front of everybody's beds, preferably in the slippers to keep the present safe...

oh YUKK...

One of our Siamese used to hide bodies under pillows.

Yet it all works well for us too. One house had rats; we used to hear them in the roof space.

Our young hunter cat had a great battle with one one night; heard the rat screaming.... and he killed it. Stood by the body shaking. It was a very large rat too.

Nuri Sahin

Mainly rabbits these days.

Sometimes they're already dead and in a right mess but sometimes I catch my cat on the verge of finishing one off.. a rabbit crying is heartbreaking to hear

9 times out of 10 he's there munching away outside the family room window where he eventually leaves it.

Haven't seen him catch a bird since early this year. Really cannot remember the last time I found a mouse.

morganafay

Adnan Alves wrote: »

Sometimes they're already dead and in a right mess but sometimes I catch my cat on the verge of finishing one off.. a rabbit crying is heartbreaking to hear
/QUOTE]

My cat caught onto one of my baby rabbits through the wire of their run one day, and it was crying so loudly, poor thing. Luckily I heard it and yelled at the cat who let go, and the mother rabbit followed the cat round the egde of the run, standing on her back legs like she was about to attack the cat! If she could have, the cat would have gotten a nasty scratch and bite I'd say.

morganafay

Reading all these posts makes me glad I don't have a cat flap anymore (just open the door to let the cats in and out).

Lillylilly

morganafay wrote: »

Reading all these posts makes me glad I don't have a cat flap anymore (just open the door to let the cats in and out).

What do you do when you're at work, or in the middle of the night? I seel like since we have the two kittens, we're up and down all the time letting them in or out. And we're at work so they need to get in and out to go the loo! Handy if they're still using the litter tray I suppose. Although after I come home after a 12 hour shift and they've been inside all day- the house is trashed. They knock things over, and have an obsession with pulling all the cushions off the couch!!!

The Sweeper

Adnan Alves wrote: »

Mainly rabbits these days.

Sometimes they're already dead and in a right mess but sometimes I catch my cat on the verge of finishing one off.. a rabbit crying is heartbreaking to hear

Just remember, if that was your dog and you were in an urban area, and the rabbit was someone's pet, you'd be criticised/villified/called a facilitator of animal cruelty/etc.

As it is, please take the rabbit off the cat and kill it yourself. I cannot understand why you would leave your animal to kill another animal slowly for its own entertainment.

morganafay

Lillylilly wrote: »

What do you do when you're at work, or in the middle of the night? I seel like since we have the two kittens, we're up and down all the time letting them in or out. And we're at work so they need to get in and out to go the loo! Handy if they're still using the litter tray I suppose. Although after I come home after a 12 hour shift and they've been inside all day- the house is trashed. They knock things over, and have an obsession with pulling all the cushions off the couch!!!

Well it's my parents' house so I can only have them in when I'm keeping an eye on them anyway, so they're outside when I'm not home. Unless someone else let's them in. They'll go in and out the conservatory windows though, and there's nothing they'll break in there really, so they can stay in there on their own. And at night they sleep in my room and usually sleep through the night, but sometimes they wake me up to let them out! I couldn't have a litter tray in my room cos it'd be too smelly!

morganafay

The Sweeper wrote: »

Just remember, if that was your dog and you were in an urban area, and the rabbit was someone's pet, you'd be criticised/villified/called a facilitator of animal cruelty/etc.

As it is, please take the rabbit off the cat and kill it yourself. I cannot understand why you would leave your animal to kill another animal slowly for its own entertainment.

But it isn't a pet, it's a wild animal, the same as a rat or mouse or anything. I'd prefer if cats wouldn't kill animals, but I don't believe they do it for entertainment or to be cruel. It is their instinct to play with food, and I guess it's to sharpen their hunting skills or something, but they're not being cruel, they don't even know what being cruel is. They eat meat, whether it's the chicken/beef/lamb in cat food or whether it's a wild rabbit, what is the difference. I'd say the animals killed for cat food probably suffer as much.

And the person who posted that did say the cat was "on the verge of finishing it off" so the cat was going to kill it soon, probably by suffocation by biting it's throat. I wouldn't be able to take a dying animal off my cats and kill it, I just couldn't do it. Also the cats might run away with it if you tried.

I have pet rabbits, and I am glad that my cats don't kill rabbits, but if they did, it would be the same as if they killed a mouse to me really.

The Sweeper

Are you under the impression that pets have different nerve endings to domesticated animals?

I work with a woman who runs a native Austalian wildlife rescue (wombats, possums, kangaroos, wallabies, and the smaller mammals, birds and such like). She's told me it's pointless trying to rescue something that a cat's been at, because a cat's teeth and claws are so filthy with bacteria that if you don't get antibiotics into the animal that's been attacked within 24 hours, it dies.

So the wounded birds and rodents you may confiscate from the cat and release, they go off somewhere quiet and die over a matter of hours and hours.

It's one thing to say 'that's nature', but a lot of domestic cats do not eat what they kill. They're already well fed. I never used the word 'cruel' - this isn't an emotional argument about cats being mean or evil. This is basic animal welfare - for all animals, for all creatures with nerve endings, for all things that feel pain.

Euthanasia - 'the good death'. Quick and relatively painless, the way we would all like to go. 'He didn't even know what hit him' - solace often offered to friends and family when people die a violent death.

When you find your domesticated, well fed, ahead-in-the-stakes-because-of-your-intervention cat, slowly killing another animal that it isn't going to eat, intervene. It makes no sense, really, to have one poster here recently posting that he's picked up a wild rabbit on the road that he thinks has been hit by a car, and he wants to know what to do with it; yet we have other posters commenting on the animals their pets kill, sometimes frequently, and how little they can do about it?

planetX

I wonder what kind of death the animals in cat-food have had, and those for human consumption??? Much worse I'm willing to bet than a mouse or bird killed in the cats jaws.

Whispered

The Sweeper wrote: »

yet we have other posters commenting on the animals their pets kill, sometimes frequently, and how little they can do about it?

when in reality there is a lot that can be one about it. If people were bothered and stopped trying to brush it off as "nature". As you said, it's not natural for a predator to have such a huge advantage over their prey all the time.

I own 2 cats as I posted above, and have taken steps to prevent them hunting and killing. It has worked very well and does not involve keeping them in all of the time. Some of the posts here, from posters whose opinions I'd usually respect, have sickened me. How can "animal lovers" care so little about some animals?

Planet X. That has been spokn about a lot in the forum. It's definately an issue, but a seperate one I think?

The Sweeper

planetX wrote: »

I wonder what kind of death the animals in cat-food have had, and those for human consumption??? Much worse I'm willing to bet than a mouse or bird killed in the cats jaws.

You have a choice in all things. You can choose to eat meat, or not. You can choose to eat only meat that was reared free-range in the hope it had a happy life. You can choose, to the full extent you are able, not to support exploitative industries.

And you can also choose to limit your cat's opportunities to hunt.

Cats have a natural instinct to stalk, pounce and play with prey. This instinct responds to any small moving object - a shoelace, a toy mouse, a ping pong ball, a sock tied to some string, a real mouse, a bird, a rabbit, a rat, so on.

Nothing is ever black and white, the whole world comes in multicoloured grey - but still, if you can't stomach watching your cat dismember a squealing rabbit some 45 minutes after he's finished his dish of whiskas jellymeat by the warm fire and his tartan fabric bed, then maybe you should either intervene, or consider not facilitating the exercising of his instincts so readily.

planetX

why would I want to limit my cats opportunities to hunt? I'm glad for every mouse and rat they kill, a far better method of control than poison IMO. I love that my cats hunt, and that they eat what they kill. If you can't stomach that, don't keep a predator as a pet.

Whispered

A dog is a predator too and most people here would be very upset at the thought of a dog off roaming to kill.

If you're not going to take responsibility for your pets you shouldn't have pets.

morganafay

The Sweeper wrote: »

Are you under the impression that pets have different nerve endings to domesticated animals?

I work with a woman who runs a native Austalian wildlife rescue (wombats, possums, kangaroos, wallabies, and the smaller mammals, birds and such like). She's told me it's pointless trying to rescue something that a cat's been at, because a cat's teeth and claws are so filthy with bacteria that if you don't get antibiotics into the animal that's been attacked within 24 hours, it dies.

No I don't think that, and if my cats killed one of my small animals, I wouldn't be mad at the cat and would accept that that can happen. I'd be very upset, but wouldn't blame the cat. My old dog accidentally injured a kitten and she had to be put down, but I didn't blame the dog.

Oh and if that was directed at me then I think you misunderstood me, I don't release animals that are injured, but if the cats have one that isn't injured or scratched at all (which is rare) then I would try to release it. That's only happened once or twice, and the animal has had no scratches. My cat caught onto one of my baby rabbits before, but it had no scratches, so it didn't get an infection thankfully.

morganafay

Whispered wrote: »

A dog is a predator too and most people here would be very upset at the thought of a dog off roaming to kill.

If you're not going to take responsibility for your pets you shouldn't have pets.

I see you keep your cats in, which I respect. But a lot of people just say "you should keep cats inside" and it's easy for them to say that, when they don't know how hard that is. My cats would go mad if I didn't let them out (with the exception of one, who loves being in).

For any dog owners here, if your dog was killing birds that came into the garden, would you keep the dog inside permanently, or fence in the whole garden with a roof on it so that no birds can get in? Because those are the only ways to keep a cat from hunting completely. If you think about it really, you'll see how difficult it is to keep cats in. A lot of cats won't be happy being outside and would be much happier outdoors. Cats need exercise as much as dogs, they probably need even more space than dogs in my opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think that my cats' happiness is more important than them killing a few mice. Afterall, they eat meat anyway, lots of people eat meat, lots of people kill mice in traps. I don't like animals dying (I'm vegan) but I accept it happens.

More wildlife is killed because of humans anyday than because of cats. So when people can truely say they don't contribute to the destruction of wildlife or the killing of animals, then they can judge me.

Also I find that "you shouldn't have pets" kinda offensive, because I think I am responsible for my pets.

morganafay

Btw, I live in the countryside and I've mentioned to a few people the arguments on here about cats roaming, and everyone thought it was ridiculous. People here couldn't understand why anyone would keep a cat in unless they were by a busy road or something.

planetX

Whispered wrote: »

A dog is a predator too and most people here would be very upset at the thought of a dog off roaming to kill.

If you're not going to take responsibility for your pets you shouldn't have pets.

plenty of people kept terriers as ratters. And FYI my cats are killing in my 'own' house and garden. My pets have a purpose, and I love to see them fulfil it. Much as I might like wildlife, I don't enjoy mice sharing my house.

Whispered

morganafay wrote: »

I see you keep your cats in, which I respect. But a lot of people just say "you should keep cats inside" and it's easy for them to say that, when they don't know how hard that is. My cats would go mad if I didn't let them out (with the exception of one, who loves being in). .

No I don't. I have 2 posts in this thread stating that I don't and one very long one saying how I hav tried to cut down on the killings (and successfully so) without keeping them in all of the time.

morganafay wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think that my cats' happiness is more important than them killing a few mice. Afterall, they eat meat anyway, lots of people eat meat, lots of people kill mice in traps. I don't like animals dying (I'm vegan) but I accept it happens.

A few mice? What about the rabbits, birds etc that have been mentioned on this thread. We're not talking about a few mice here. I agree with you when you said if your cat killed one of your smallies you wouldn't be annoyed with the cat. You're right it wouldn't be the cats fault. But you would feel some responsibility wouldn't you?

Nobody can say that they don't contribute to the destruction of animals. Vegan or otherwise . But we can do our best. Part of that is trying to limit our cats killings.

(If you're vegan you should pop into the V&V forum )

morganafay wrote: »

Also I find that "you shouldn't have pets" kinda offensive, because I think I am responsible for my pets.

I would ask if you're going to quote me to not take half sentences out of context to find something offensive in them. What I actually said was

If you're not going to take responsibility for your pets you shouldn't have pets.

I'm sure you agree with that sentiment?

Whispered

planetX wrote: »

plenty of people kept terriers as ratters. And FYI my cats are killing in my 'own' house and garden. My pets have a purpose, and I love to see them fulfil it. Much as I might like wildlife, I don't enjoy mice sharing my house.

Yes I do see how ratters can be useful. And I would prefer that to other methods of control.

But when your cat is bringing home rabbits and birds then you should really try to do something about it.

morganafay

Whispered wrote: »

No I don't. I have 2 posts in this thread stating that I don't and one very long one saying how I hav tried to cut down on the killings (and successfully so) without keeping them in all of the time.

A few mice? What about the rabbits, birds etc that have been mentioned on this thread. We're not talking about a few mice here. I agree with you when you said if your cat killed one of your smallies you wouldn't be annoyed with the cat. You're right it wouldn't be the cats fault. But you would feel some responsibility wouldn't you?

Sorry I must have been thinking of someone else. I've tried to cut down on my cats' killings too, I don't like them killing animals. And personally my cats only kill a few mice or the odd bird. Only 2 of the 5 cats hunt, and not very often at all. I can't keep them inside.

If my cats killed my small animals, I'd feel responsible because the animals got out of their runs, but not because of the cats at all. Like when my dog hurt the kitten, I felt responsible because I left the kitten walk up to the dog when it was eating (the dog just kinda pushed her away but hit her in the head and she had brain damage ), but I thought it was my fault, not the dog's in any way.

Yeah I agree that I contribute towards the killing of animals, like I travel by car, etc. but I was just saying that humans do so much damage to the environment, and cats don't do that much in comparison. I'd prefer to have my cats outdoors is all. Not that I have a choice at the moment anyway.

Oh and what I found offensive, was that it sounded like you were saying that I'm not responsible for my animals because I let them roam. And that because of that I shouldn't have cats. That's your belief to have, but I don't agree.

morganafay

Whispered wrote: »

Yes I do see how ratters can be useful. And I would prefer that to other methods of control.

But when your cat is bringing home rabbits and birds then you should really try to do something about it.

IMO a rat is no worse than a rabbit or bird, but I guess not everyone thinks that. I don't want my cats to kill them but I wouldn't want rats or rabbits in my garden. There are things you can do to stop your cats, but it's very difficult to stop them completely.


I really don't think that people on this post don't care about animals. I definitely do care about animals, and don't like my cats to kill them, but it happens and I accept it.

Whispered

morganafay wrote: »

but I was just saying that humans do so much damage to the environment, and cats don't do that much in comparison. I'd prefer to have my cats outdoors is all. Not that I have a choice at the moment anyway.

Comparing cats killing with human damage on the environment is not comparing like with like.

morganafay wrote: »

Oh and what I found offensive, was that it sounded like you were saying that I'm not responsible for my animals because I let them roam. And that because of that I shouldn't have cats. That's your belief to have, but I don't agree.

Again you're taking offense at something that was actually a direct reply to the post before mine. But yes you're right, I think people who are not responsible for their pets, should not have pets. Whether they are cats dogs fish etc. I know from your posts that you agree with responsible pet ownership.

I just find it incredible that people who love animals can so flippantly talk about their pets killing.

planetX

Whispered wrote: »

Yes I do see how ratters can be useful. And I would prefer that to other methods of control.

But when your cat is bringing home rabbits and birds then you should really try to do something about it.

rabbits are killed in their thousands by farmers as vermin (not something I'd be happy about btw). Why is a cat killing a rabbit worse than a rat? Do you avoid rabbit flavoured cat-food? Come on now. I can see there are problems with overhunting in highly populated areas, but not where I live. If anything there's an unnatural lack of predators.

Whispered

morganafay wrote: »

IMO a rat is no worse than a rabbit or bird, but I guess not everyone thinks that.

No not everybody does, particurlary people who keep other animals. Rats can cause terrible problems in a house/garden or area other animals are in. Rats are not in decline. Rats carry sicknesses which birds and rabbits don't.

Personally I think it's sad that rats are killed, they're very interesting to watch and very intelligent. But I can understand a lot more easily people keeping a cat as a ratter than keeping them as a pet and allowing them out to kill birds & rabbits.

Whispered

planetX wrote: »

rabbits are killed in their thousands by farmers as vermin (not something I'd be happy about btw). Why is a cat killing a rabbit worse than a rat? Do you avoid rabbit flavoured cat-food? Come on now. I can see there are problems with overhunting in highly populated areas, but not where I live. If anything there's an unnatural lack of predators.

I disagree with that too, mixo is an awful death. I don't buy my cats flavoured cat food (or at least I don't think it's flavoured as anything in partic, I never checked:o).

I think that cats killing rats is awful, but I can understand it, to keep vermin out of your garden/home. Heading out to kill rabbits and birds, is different. Birds are hardly causing problems are they?

Another thing, which I realise is humanising it a bit, cats and rabbits are similar sizes. I'd imagine the death to be slower than that of a rat. It may be flawed logic but I'd have less of a problem with dogs killing rabits than cats killing rabbits. Does that make sense?

PlanetX do you think there is no problem with cats killing birds and other wildlife?

morganafay

Whispered wrote: »

Comparing cats killing with human damage on the environment is not comparing like with like.

Again you're taking offense at something that was actually a direct reply to the post before mine. But yes you're right, I think people who are not responsible for their pets, should not have pets. Whether they are cats dogs fish etc. I know from your posts that you agree with responsible pet ownership.

I just find it incredible that people who love animals can so flippantly talk about their pets killing.

I don't really mean they are the same thing, but humans kill so many animals, and I don't believe that cats kill a huge amount. The way some people talk, cats are single-handedly destroying the bird population, which I just don't believe. And just that, since so many animals are killed all the time, if a cat kills a few more, well it's not the end of the world exactly.

I agree that irresponsible people shouldn't own pets, but don't think letting a cat roam is irresponsible (if it's pretty safe for the cat).

I love animals, and I guess I was talking flippantly about it. But it doesn't really bother me if they kill something, I'd prefer if they didn't, but I'm not going to worry about it. Though, say, if I killed a mouse, I'd feel horribly guilty and not be able to talk about it. So if my cats kill something, I can talk about it and not be upset, but I wouldn't brag or say it was funny or anything. I do feel sorry for the animals and respect them.

I find it the same if someone told a story about eating a burger, that they might still care for animals, but they don't feel bad about the animal dying, so they can easily talk about it.


I really don't think people meant this thread to be insulting or to be joking about animals dying. At least most people didn't.

morganafay

Whispered wrote: »

No not everybody does, particurlary people who keep other animals. Rats can cause terrible problems in a house/garden or area other animals are in. Rats are not in decline. Rats carry sicknesses which birds and rabbits don't.

Personally I think it's sad that rats are killed, they're very interesting to watch and very intelligent. But I can understand a lot more easily people keeping a cat as a ratter than keeping them as a pet and allowing them out to kill birds & rabbits.

I don't mind birds, but I don't want rabbits coming near my rabbits in case they pass on diseases or fleas, etc. Also I imagine the males could dig into the run to get to my 2 baby female rabbits if they wanted to and the babies could escape or be killed by my cats then.

But I definitely don't want rats around either, because they could kill my small animals easily. I don't think I'd put down traps if they were around, but it is handy that my cats might keep them away (my cats don't kill rats actually, but I'd say rats might keep their distance because of the cats).

morganafay

Whispered wrote: »

I think that cats killing rats is awful, but I can understand it, to keep vermin out of your garden/home. Heading out to kill rabbits and birds, is different. Birds are hardly causing problems are they?

Another thing, which I realise is humanising it a bit, cats and rabbits are similar sizes. I'd imagine the death to be slower than that of a rat. It may be flawed logic but I'd have less of a problem with dogs killing rabits than cats killing rabbits. Does that make sense?

I think cats killing rats, etc. is bad because the prey animal suffers, but I'm sure that any meat animal raised and killed for cat food suffers about as much, don't you think so? I know cats sometimes don't eat their prey, but if they don't then some other animal will in the end.

I see what you mean about cats and rabbits being similar sizes, but I imagine rats are hard to kill, because they are more dangerous than rabbits?