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Interesting "presents" your cat has brought home!
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Well the cats do contribute in fairness although I do think it can be over stated a bit just how much damage they do. But I'd be thinking on a smaller level. Like individual animals. Think of the starfish.morganafay wrote: »The way some people talk, cats are single-handedly destroying the bird population, which I just don't believe. And just that, since so many animals are killed all the time, if a cat kills a few more, well it's not the end of the world exactly.
It's not the end of the world, but with the population of dogs and cats here in this country you could say the same about them in pounds. Why not let them be put to sleep, sure it's not the end of the world. Do you know what I mean. I'm sure if you thought you could save one dog from a slow death or even a quick one, if it was unnecessary, I'm sure you would. I just think it's amazing that that courtsey is not extended to other animals.
What are the chances of rabbits getting near your smallies? I don't know your set up but you have outdoor dogs don't you? (I may be thinking of the wrong poster). Would wild rabbits be a problem for you near your smallies with dogs around?morganafay wrote: »I don't mind birds, but I don't want rabbits coming near my rabbits in case they pass on diseases or fleas, etc.
EDIT: about animals raised and killed for cat food. Animal food is made from byproducts of the meat industry, animals which have been raised and killed for human consumption usually. But you raise an interesting point about vegetarians and vegans keeping animals at all. *heads off to V&V to start a thread*
EDIT: Morganafay, can domestic rabbits catch mixo from wild if they come into contact briefly? Or do you know if it's a disease that needs direct prolonged contact?0 -
Well the cats do contribute in fairness although I do think it can be over stated a bit just how much damage they do. But I'd be thinking on a smaller level. Like individual animals. Think of the starfish.
What are the chances of rabbits getting near your smallies? I don't know your set up but you have outdoor dogs don't you? (I may be thinking of the wrong poster). Would wild rabbits be a problem for you near your smallies with dogs around?
Yeah, cats do contribute. And I do feel sorry for the individual animals they kill, but you know, they eat cat food everyday made of chicken or something, so either way they are eating animals. I feel sorry for them, but I can't feel bad about every bit of meat they eat everyday. My cats do actually eat the animals they kill. I know mice and birds are alot smaller, so they are killing more of them, then they are of cows or chickens by eating them. But anyway, they have to eat meat, and will be eating as much meat whether they hunt or not, you know what I mean?
I don't find them eating wild animals worse than them eating cat food.
Also, my cats I have at the moment are not very good at hunting and I'd say they only catch the weak or slow animals.
I have outdoor dogs though they are in a run at night and when I'm not home, whereas the rabbits are outside all day. So rabbits could get to my rabbits, and so could rats and mice, if they tried. I think the cats do keep them away though, because I live in the countryside, so you'd imagine there would be rats and mice around, especially with all the pet food in bowls and kept in the shed too. But I've only ever seen one rat around and a cat chased him off, but didn't catch him because she's old and fat.
I'm sure the dogs keep them away too, but to be honest my dogs have very little hunting instinct, and probably wouldn't even notice! When that rat was around only one of the dogs noticed, and the dogs will be sitting right next to crows and not even bat an eyelid. They'll actually lick my rabbits. They're either a bit stupid or they're just so used to prey animals being around.0 -
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I don't have a cat fence although I have been thinking of having an enclosure built, with a tunnel to the house. They are getting old now so for their own safety it might be a good idea for me to get that done. It would allow me to be more able to have them out whenever they wanted too. It would cost a bit too much at the moment.
When I have my own house I'm going to have an enclosure so they can go out when they want to. I think it's important for indoor animals to have some fresh air and sunlight if possible, so I'd definitely want an outdoor enclosure attached to the house, with lots of cat trees and some plants and stuff.
I'd love to breed pedigree cats one day (whether or not people agree with that, it's off topic) so of course they couldn't be allowed roam at all, or they'd be mating with other cats and getting pregnant and FIV and everything. So being indoors with an outdoor enclosure would be a good compromise. Also unneutered toms would spray in the house if they couldn't go out.
I'd also be able to be less worried about my cats going on the road and all that. It's quite stressful when a cat isn't around and I don't know where they are.0 -
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There is a slight dichotomy in your thinking here. Part of the damage humans do to the environment is via cats. Cats are not part of the natural equilibrium in the Irish environment (neither are rabbits in that case, introduced in the 10-15th century I think).morganafay wrote: »Yeah I agree that I contribute towards the killing of animals, like I travel by car, etc. but I was just saying that humans do so much damage to the environment, and cats don't do that much in comparison. I'd prefer to have my cats outdoors is all. Not that I have a choice at the moment anyway.
Oh and what I found offensive, was that it sounded like you were saying that I'm not responsible for my animals because I let them roam. And that because of that I shouldn't have cats. That's your belief to have, but I don't agree.
Birds are part of the Irish environment and are useful for controlling insects.morganafay wrote: »IMO a rat is no worse than a rabbit or bird, but I guess not everyone thinks that.
Then keep them indoors, they can't kill the mice when they are outdoors.plenty of people kept terriers as ratters. And FYI my cats are killing in my 'own' house and garden. My pets have a purpose, and I love to see them fulfil it. Much as I might like wildlife, I don't enjoy mice sharing my house.
Animals tend not to prey on individual specimens that they are familiar with. Most of the reaction from a dog to a cat is the dog being territorial towards a strange cat.morganafay wrote: »When that rat was around only one of the dogs noticed, and the dogs will be sitting right next to crows and not even bat an eyelid. They'll actually lick my rabbits. They're either a bit stupid or they're just so used to prey animals being around.0 -
There is a slight dichotomy in your thinking here. Part of the damage humans do to the environment is via cats. Cats are not part of the natural equilibrium in the Irish environment (neither are rabbits in that case, introduced in the 10-15th century I think).
Birds are part of the Irish environment and are useful for controlling insects.
Then keep them indoors, they can't kill the mice when they are outdoors.
Animals tend not to prey on individual specimens that they are familiar with. Most of the reaction from a dog to a cat is the dog being territorial towards a strange cat.
Cats are naturalised and are..... cats. Their presence and nature need respect. And they do a fine job of controlling vermin.
And all species die out at some time; to call that "damage to the environment" is extreme and inaccurate.
Incidentally, in rural areas eg farms, cats are always left outside. That is the Irish and rural way.0 -
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Then keep them indoors, they can't kill the mice when they are outdoors.
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Never. I would have my cats put to sleep before I imprisoned them. They live for the great outdoors, they live to hunt. That is a fundamental part of cat nature, and if you deny that nature IMO you can't call yourself a cat lover.
Getting back to the point of this thread, has anyone else got those magnetic collars for opening cat flaps. My brothers cats come back with all sorts of metal objects sticking to the collars - once one came home with a key.... cat-burglar???0 -
Honestly, up until a few weeks ago I would have felt the same about my little girl (well not to the extent of killing her). But she loved going outside. That hour or two a day where she was out, she really enjoyed. But she got injured in the house (ironic!) and I was advised by the vet to keep her rested. In one room. So poor girl was confined to the main bathroom for 3 days with her cushion, a litter tray and food. I honestly thought she would go mad. She's better now and has only left the house once since. She's perfectly happy spending most of her time indoors.
Never. I would have my cats put to sleep before I imprisoned them.
To an extent I agree a cat should have outdoor access, as should a dog, but there is nothing wrong with controlling that access.Getting back to the point of this thread, has anyone else got those magnetic collars for opening cat flaps. My brothers cats come back with all sorts of metal objects sticking to the collars - once one came home with a key.... cat-burglar???
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Honestly, up until a few weeks ago I would have felt the same about my little girl (well not to the extent of killing her). But she loved going outside. That hour or two a day where she was out, she really enjoyed. But she got injured in the house (ironic!) and I was advised by the vet to keep her rested. In one room. So poor girl was confined to the main bathroom for 3 days with her cushion, a litter tray and food. I honestly thought she would go mad. She's better now and has only left the house once since. She's perfectly happy spending most of her time indoors.
To an extent I agree a cat should have outdoor access, as should a dog, but there is nothing wrong with controlling that access.
Some cats love being in all day and would be fine with it, like the one sitting next to me right now!
Some cats would go mad, like my kitten, or my ex-indoor-Dublin cat who never got used to it, even though I got him at 8 weeks.
I think it's a good idea just letting them out for an hour or a few hours, never really thought of that before. I think the cat having the choice is the best option for the cat, but restricting it to an hour or so is a good compromise. Since cats are only awake for 6 hours a day anyway, and spend most of that lying around or cleaning themeselves!0 -
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Ticktactoe wrote: »Out of a matter of interest how do you restrict a cats time outdoors to an hour? Do they come back to you (like a dog for instance) when you call them or do you have to go chasing them around to get them inside?
I let them out for an hour a few times a day. They are free fed so never hungry but they have "meal" times where I'll give them a treat. They usually stay in my garden, and for the time they are out, I keep the dog in so that they can enjoy the garden without being annoyed by him. They do wander at times but they are hardly ever away for more than an hour. If they are I'd start to worry.
They come when called most of the time anyway, but when they know you're going to give them a treat, they come all the time. haha. They also follow very simple commands like get up, come here, off the bed, one of them sits etc. I have an uncle who keeps ratters in his stables and one of them rolls over even if he shouts it from a distance.
EDIT: They are older now (9 years) but they have done it since very young, they were wild kittens too so I think it has a lot to do with your approach to it as opposed to the cat itself.0 -
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Do you think they're too old? I wonder. I have no idea tbh. Although you could be right, I just spent the last while out the back with them and the boy spent the whole time sunning himself and lazing which is normal, but the girl made a half hearted attempt to catch a daddylonglegs but gave up easily and came back to sit under my chair. I think though it could be a lot to do with her still finding her feet after her injury.
It's funny I'd have never thought of them as being "too old" but now that you've said it you're right :eek: :(they are getting old. They look the same to me as they always did. I'm very lucky have always had great luck with them, only 2 injuries in the 9 years, both on her.
Here she is looking for mischief (as usual)
And here he is lazing (as usual)0 -
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Do you think they're too old? I wonder. I have no idea tbh. Although you could be right, I just spent the last while out the back with them and the boy spent the whole time sunning himself and lazing which is normal, but the girl made a half hearted attempt to catch a daddylonglegs but gave up easily and came back to sit under my chair. I think though it could be a lot to do with her still finding her feet after her injury.
It's funny I'd have never thought of them as being "too old" but now that you've said it you're right :eek: :(they are getting old. They look the same to me as they always did. I'm very lucky have always had great luck with them, only 2 injuries in the 9 years, both on her.
They look young and healthy, but I just figured predators have to be in the prime of life to be able to catch anything. My 6 year old cat is blind in one eye and he's never been able to hunt because of it. If they were wild animals they'd just die out if there was anything wrong with them.
My 10 year old cat actually looks a lot older than your cats, and is fat and has a bit of arthritis. I was convinced she was probably going to die soon and had all kinds of things wrong with her, but she saw the vet last week and she said she was really healthy. She's a tough cat though, she's had a few illnesses in the last few years that almost killed her. My young healthy tom cat got a mystery virus and died, despite us doing everything we could, and she got the same virus and went and hid somewhere for a week and got better on her own with no treatment! 0
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