DIY C-41 Colour Processing - Which Kit?

jpb1974

Greetings Forum Members.

I spotted that Mr. Quinlan does his own C-41 colour processing and was just wondering which DIY C-41 Colour Processing kit people out there are using?

I see Maco have kits by Fuji, Rollei and Tetenal. Is it the case that they are all pretty much the same or does one standout over the others?

Plan on buying soon and giving it a try so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

DaireQuinlan

I actually stuck a little more information in those flickr comments. Get yourself into Gunnes and get the 5l fuji hunt kit. That's all you need, It's what I've been using for the last few years. It's a full professional kit of chems, divided developer concentrates, and seperate bleach/fix.
I make mine up 500ml at a time and store the working solutions in plastic bottles and use it maybe 2/3/4 times over the course of a couple of weeks. I top up the concentrate bottles with protectant. One kit lasts me the better part of a year, and anything up to about 30->40 rolls of film so it works out at about €1 a roll for development.

jpb1974

Thanks for that.

Haven't check on the 'ol Flickr since early this morn.

Will give Gunnes a quick call and see if they have it in stock and drop up later.

Appreciate it.

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Haven't check on the 'ol Flickr since early this morn.

Will give Gunnes a quick call and see if they have it in stock and drop up later.

Appreciate it.

I'm assuming here that you dev your own B&W already so you're pretty familiar with general development, if so then colour is a walk in the park. Just try and keep the times and temps reasonably within the specified ranges :-)

jpb1974

Aye I do the B+W at home.

Watched a YouTube vid for the colour dev and it looks straight forward enough... as you say times/temps seem to be the most crucial bit.

Thanks again, appreciate the info.

sineadw

Ah sure I overdev'd by three minutes last time

Daire - my Hunt chems are open 5 months now. Should I compensate by whacking the concentration up a bit?

jpb1974

Just back from Gunns... I had hoped that the chemicals were concentrated and would make up 5L when diluted... but based on the weight on the box I think not... after a circa 1 mile hike back to the office absolutely wrecked and sweating bullets too.

Only €43 for the kit in Gunns... costs €59 on Maco ex. shipping... an Irish bargain... they do exist!

melekalikimaka

E6 being rare as it is round ireland, is it any harder?

DaireQuinlan

sineadw wrote: »

Ah sure I overdev'd by three minutes last time

Daire - my Hunt chems are open 5 months now. Should I compensate by whacking the concentration up a bit?

Nah, I never bother. I think mine are about 8 or 9 months old now, and under half full. I still make them up as normal.

jpb1974 wrote: »

Just back from Gunns... I had hoped that the chemicals were concentrated and would make up 5L when diluted... but based on the weight on the box I think not... after a circa 1 mile hike back to the office absolutely wrecked and sweating bullets too.

Hah, it makes up 5L all right, but it's 5 litres of developer, bleach, fix and stabiliser. The bleach is the worst, I think that's diluted 1:1 so you've got 2.5 l of stuff right there. It's a big hefty box all right

DaireQuinlan

melekalikimaka wrote: »

E6 being rare as it is round ireland, is it any harder?

Gunns have another Fuji hunt kit to do E6, little more expensive IIRC. I've never tried it, you have to be more careful of times and temps with E6 apparently, but much like C-41, only the first step is crucial, the rest are process to completion. I don't shoot enough to really warrant getting two seperate kits so short of switching all my negative shooting over to E6 I won't be doing it anytime soon.

melekalikimaka

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Gunns have another Fuji hunt kit to do E6, little more expensive IIRC. I've never tried it, you have to be more careful of times and temps with E6 apparently, but much like C-41, only the first step is crucial, the rest are process to completion. I don't shoot enough to really warrant getting two seperate kits so short of switching all my negative shooting over to E6 I won't be doing it anytime soon.

tbh i have a few friends going through the lomo xpro phase, and personally i wanna do a bit of xproed fashion/model stuff with tungsten slide, so prob get the kit and split it with a few for some xproing, chems dont ast well tho do they?

sineadw

Officially it's six weeks for the C41 :eek:

DaireQuinlan

melekalikimaka wrote: »

tbh i have a few friends going through the lomo xpro phase, and personally i wanna do a bit of xproed fashion/model stuff with tungsten slide, so prob get the kit and split it with a few for some xproing, chems dont ast well tho do they?

You'll need the C-41 kit to do Xpro, not the E6 kit, hence the X

sineadw wrote: »

Officially it's six weeks for the C41 :eek:

Officially smicially. I had one kit last well over a year, and only threw it out because one of the developer concentrates was going a bit ... iffy ... It still developed film just fine though !

Ghost Train

I've been using the same c-41 chemicals for the 10 months or so, mixing every two or three months and reusing a few times, without any major problems.

That being said tried develop a roll tonight and film came out blank, so time to get new chemicals. Was a bit surprised the developer which worked fine two weeks ago would just stop working completely but seems to be the case.

melekalikimaka

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

You'll need the C-41 kit to do Xpro, not the E6 kit, hence the X

really not thinking tonight

jpb1974

Anyone know if Gunns sell 'Protectant' or a similar type product?

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

Anyone know if Gunns sell 'Protectant' or a similar type product?

actually, just checking there, it's 'protectan', not 'protectant'. The cans last for ever but they're a little expensive. Interestingly enough it's just a mix of propane and butane, which IIRC you can also get in hardware stores for propane torches and the like. That's what I was going to get when my current can ran out.

jpb1974

Cheers for that!

Ghost Train

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

actually, just checking there, it's 'protectan', not 'protectant'. The cans last for ever but they're a little expensive. Interestingly enough it's just a mix of propane and butane, which IIRC you can also get in hardware stores for propane torches and the like. That's what I was going to get when my current can ran out.

Can't remember who said it but read a post somewhere of somebody putting marbles in the bottles to keep them topped up

sineadw

Yep - louise in gunns told me the marbles thing. Of course I never got around to it. :rolleyes:

jpb1974

actually, just checking there, it's 'protectan', not 'protectant'

Cheers... that explains why my search wasn't working. Just ordered some from Macodirect along with a few other supplies.

My plan now is to decant the chems in the larger bottles into smaller bottles (filled right to the top) and then just spray 'protectan' on whatever bottle is in use.

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

My plan now is to decant the chems in the larger bottles into smaller bottles (filled right to the top) and then just spray 'protectan' on whatever bottle is in use.

What, keep the concentrates in smaller bottles
If you're talking about making the entire 5 litres up at once I wouldn't, I'd do what, well, I do :rolleyes:, and make it up 500ml or a litre at a time depending on your tank capacity requirements and spray protectan into the concentrate containers. Then store the made up solutions in filled up smaller bottles for as long as you want to use it. Reason being that the concentrates seem to keep for ever (for some indeterminate meaning of the word 'forever') as long as they're protectan'd up, but the working solution I wouldn't be so sanguine about. I've never had the fuji hunt stuff fail on me because I only ever keep it for about 3-4 weeks before making up another 500ml batch, but I've had tetenal chemistry just stop working after about 2 or 3 weeks.

jpb1974

After doing a bit of reading I was going to put the concentrates (from the larger bottles) in smaller bottles (filled to the brim) so that anything that wasn't being used would basically remained sealed and would only have to then be opened when it was required.

I'd then have a much smaller 'active' bottle of concentrate, which when used, would then be treated with protectan.

But it all sounds like a lot of effort doesn't it? My modus operandi would be to 'keep it as simple as possible'.

Forgive my dithering here... it's my mind going through all the permutations and combinations before D-Day arrives.

jpb1974

Maco phucked up my order and as a result I only got my grubby paws on the Tetenal today so I hope to give this a try sometime over the next fews days and post some results.

jpb1974

One quick question before I bite the bullet:

Developer Stage - Agitation (which it says is critical)

Am I interpreting the instructions correctly when it says:

30 second agitation at the start

Into bath for 13 seconds

Followed by a 2 second agitation

Back into bath

10 seconds from the end another agitation.

I don't have the instructions with me, but I'm sure this is what I read last night.

Cheers

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

One quick question before I bite the bullet:

Developer Stage - Agitation (which it says is critical)

Am I interpreting the instructions correctly when it says:

30 second agitation at the start

Into bath for 13 seconds

Followed by a 2 second agitation

Back into bath

10 seconds from the end another agitation.

I don't have the instructions with me, but I'm sure this is what I read last night.

Cheers

That's what it seems to say all right, I just do my standard agitation regimen, about 20 seconds at the start then a couple of inversions on the minute, and then 10 seconds at the end.

jpb1974

Thanks for that, the wording in relation to the final agitation is a tad confusing.

I just do my standard agitation regimen, about 20 seconds at the start then a couple of inversions on the minute, and then 10 seconds at the end.

Good to know.

Just waiting on something to measure minuscule amounts (circa 3ml) which I'm hoping herself will bring home today.

Cheers.

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

Just waiting on something to measure minuscule amounts (circa 3ml) which I'm hoping herself will bring home today.

Cheers.

Pop down to your local chemist and get a measuring syringe. They're about a euro or something. Just don't use it for medicine afterward !

Don't sweat the details too much. I'm amazed how much punishment a roll of C-41 can actually take. I've yet to result in an unscannable roll, and I've done dreadful dreadful things to them

jpb1974

Pop down to your local chemist and get a measuring syringe

The other half has been tasked with this.

Don't sweat the details too much. I'm amazed how much punishment a roll of C-41 can actually take. I've yet to result in an unscannable roll, and I've done dreadful dreadful things to them

Good to know... I've been planning this for 2 weeks now with military precision. Whilst I'm telling myself there's no room for failure I've exposed the standard roll of crap photos that I won't be upset about if the developing goes to the dogs.

ValueInIreland

One Question - WHY do you want to do yor own C-41?? It's cheap to have done commercially and most labs will produce a better result. It's not like B&W or E-6 where you can push process - why go tho the bother?

sineadw

ValueInIreland wrote: »

One Question - WHY do you want to do yor own C-41?? It's cheap to have done commercially and most labs will produce a better result. It's not like B&W or E-6 where you can push process - why go tho the bother?

Eh.. because it's fun? And unpredictable. For me anyhow. And it's good to try everything once. Plus you can cross-process. And bleach bypass. And probably a lot of other things I haven't figured out yet.

jpb1974

One Question - WHY do you want to do yor own C-41?? It's cheap to have done commercially and most labs will produce a better result. It's not like B&W or E-6 where you can push process - why go tho the bother?

I suppose, simply put, I have never been the type to go to labs. I've just a personal preference for doing things myself. It's a hobby and I like the idea of being responsible for everything from start to finish.

But there are lots of other reasons -

Because I like the challenge associated with doing it myself.

Because I want to learn news things.

Because I like the liberty of being able to develop my own film whenever it suits me.

Because it probably works out cheaper in the long run.

Because any phuck ups will be my own.

most labs will produce a better result

The few people I have asked about this seem to be pretty happy doing it themselves. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that labs produce better results.

DaireQuinlan

ValueInIreland wrote: »

One Question - WHY do you want to do yor own C-41?? It's cheap to have done commercially and most labs will produce a better result. It's not like B&W or E-6 where you can push process - why go tho the bother?

Actually, I've found it considerably cheaper to do it myself. I've gotten it down to about €1 -> €1.50 a roll depending on whatever amount of rolls I of C-41 and x-pro E6 that I do in a year. Admittedly I can also scan at a considerably higher quality than whatever those minilabs normally scan at.

In addition the thing that eventually drove me to start doing it myself was that I was getting really appalling results from practically everywhere I put film into. Scratches, fingerprints, massive amounts of dust, negatives cut in half, you name it.

The one place I never tried for development was Gunnes, and I only ever put E6 into the place on abbey street and never had a complaint with them, but EVERYWHERE else I tried, including some places you'd be surprised at, screwed up the film to one degree or another. That's something that, at the very least, I can completely eliminate when I develop myself.

Quality wise I can't complain. If I mind the times and temps and use fresh chems I get results that I'm guessing are probably pretty indistinguishable from a lab.

DaireQuinlan

Actually, what Sinead and JPB said as well. It's amazing what you can get up to when you have a pile of chemicals, a basic misunderstanding of the process, and a little bit of spare time

I doubt for example that I'd be trying to expose 10x8 RA4 paper directly in-camera and then reverse process it if I hadn't cut my teeth on the C-41 stuff and messing around with that ...

jpb1974

Summonsed the will power to try this last night.

A couple from the sacrificial roll of Fuji I60C where valuable photos was not on the agenda.

So far so good... still lots to improve on, but thanks for all the assistance.

DaireQuinlan

Very nice. What do the negs look like ? Very hard to judge colour negatives I find. The raw negs are pretty indecipherable, and the scans depend so much on your subsequent processing and colour correction. What did you take them on ? 120 I'm guessing, but I don't recognise the film border. Looks like 6x7 ? The picture of the kid looks a bit like a bronica film border, so it could be a GS ?

jpb1974

To be honest when I took the negs out of the dev tank after the stabilizer I was in shock... they were an orangy-red colour and you could barely see a trace of colour in them bar a spec of green here or there. I was sure I had phucked something up

This was 11pm last night... and I couldn't wait till morning to see if I had actually phucked them up so I gave them an hour drying time and then snipped a few off to scan. They were nowhere near dry enough and still sticky... I absolutely murdered them. But I couldn't believe it when I ran the Preview scan and I had colour There's a pic of two blokes with bikes on Grafton St on me Flickr... this was one of the murdered negs and you can see that the colours even look off.

These were taken with a Mamiya RZ67. I figured I'd use one of the more reliable cameras to get a proper set of negs as opposed to my Mamiya C330 which can be a bit temperamental with frame spacing from time to time.

I didn't do any colour cast correction or the like on these.

First time doing this was a bit of a mess... for all the prep work I had done I was still like a Bull in a China shop with spillages everywhere... I'm glad the prepped chems can be used again!

Thanks!

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

To be honest when I took the negs out of the dev tank after the stabilizer I was in shock... they were an orangy-red colour and you could barely see a trace of colour in them bar a spec of green here or there. I was sure I had phucked something up

This was 11pm last night... and I couldn't wait till morning to see if I had actually phucked them up so I gave them an hour drying time and then snipped a few off to scan. They were nowhere near dry enough and still sticky... I absolutely murdered them. But I couldn't believe it when I ran the Preview scan and I had colour

Yeah mine always look pretty screwed up when I take them out of the tank first, as though I haven't bleached or fixed them enough. As they dry though they clear a lot more. Even so, that orangey red colour is normal, it's just the magenta mask of the negative. Some films have it worse than others. I've found Kodak films, Ektar and the Portras, to have a lot more subdued and transparent masks than fuji negative films. Subjectively it seems to make them much easier to scan and get good colours from. I shoot Kodak almost exclusively now in negative, and the small amount of slide I shoot is generally Fuji.

jpb1974

Sorry.. somehow I managed to submit my previous post by accident and I since updated it.

Yeah.. the negs were really scary... I couldn't believe how something so 'red' actually had all that colour information in there.

Now that the initial test is over I'm going to invest in some colour film... probably the Kodak stuff like you mention as I like the work I've seen done with these films.

The process isn't really difficult.. compared to B+W dev it just requires more attention, more concentration and more time.

I really appreciate all the advice!