How much do you use pre-made loops?

messymess

Personally, I don't like them and prefer to create my own, be it beats or bass lines etc.

Granted my own creations are generally always far poorer than something I'd hear from a sample CD, so I can also see their attractiveness ... but for me, it's kinda cheating, as I don't feel completely in control of the creative process.

How does everyone else feel about it?

Neurojazz

99% of everything is handmade, and I use RMX stylus to mess about with looped parts (mostly small percussion loops that are creatively twisted up for backings)

It has taken years to learn the techniques though....

empirix

this is just sampling,vast majority of artists(in electronica) do this today beat beats,bass lines,voals etc etc The prodigy are particularly big offenders - its more an art to manipulate them these days, personally i only use a few breaks but its more or less the norm...whatever works and sound top notch is fine by me!

flyswatter

Interesting question. The thing is if you were to use a musical loop from say a loopmasters or prime loops sample pack, theres always the chance that someone out there is using the exact same loop on their track. So your track is hardly an original really is it? Anyone have this experience?

jiltloop

Generally I would only use drum loops for breaks. I would never use musical or instrument loops really. I prefer using single drum hits and compiling beats myself.

Neurojazz

There's a sample off my music inside the Nexus synth - Thieving gits lol , i re-use it lots

messymess

Do people think this might be contributory to the fact that most of the major dance genres haven't moved anywhere in a decade? Arguably they've gotten worse and good tracks are lost in a stew of poor productions.

I love IDM style music mainly for this reason, it's quite unpredictable and erratic, there's lots of room for creativity by its very nature.

Android 666

messymess wrote: »

Do people think this might be contributory to the fact that most of the major dance genres haven't moved anywhere in a decade? Arguably they've gotten worse and good tracks are lost in a stew of poor productions.

That's a pretty broad assumption to make. There's a lot of good house, techno and trance out there if you're willing to look. Its quite lazy to say that all these genres are overrun by loop monkeys with no discernable ideas of their own. Most people I think use sample libraries for the hits, sounds and sweeps and not for the loops - I'm talking about the loops with beats and music here, percussion loops I think are a bit of a different story. And even when using them, treat them as much as possible to make sure they sound unique to their own productions. Some people use the loops I'm sure but what's the point in that? Most people would prefer to create something themselves from scratch and be able to call it their own no matter how sh1te.

IDM, that's the stuff that middle class, former indie boys who can't dance listen to, isn't it?

seannash

messymess wrote: »

Do people think this might be contributory to the fact that most of the major dance genres haven't moved anywhere in a decade? .

no.most producers who are having any sort of success or influence are making there own drum loops from one shot samples.

most people who use loops are just starting out and as yet dont know how to make a proper drum groove.
for my tracks i make all my own effects,stabs,leads,pads,bass and whatever other melodic elements are in them.
i use one shot hits to make my drum tracks and any samples i use are usually vocal or brass.

loops are to blame for alot of influx alright especially with the likes of ableton making it easy to sync them all together but those sort of productions dont generally recieve too much press and dont sway the developement or progress of a particular genre

Anima

These days its unforgivable to hear a common loop pattern in a track. With all the power of DAWs, audio editors and DSP at musicians disposal... unforgivable.

It would show someone up to be a complete charlatan imo

Neurojazz

messymess wrote: »

Do people think this might be contributory to the fact that most of the major dance genres haven't moved anywhere in a decade? Arguably they've gotten worse and good tracks are lost in a stew of poor productions.

I love IDM style music mainly for this reason, it's quite unpredictable and erratic, there's lots of room for creativity by its very nature.

IDM? -is that the same as EDM?

The major genres are just that - a genre won't stray from it's formula (god forbid), anything that strays either becomes EDM (or IDM - please correct me) or another genre.

At the moment i'm attempting to get enough material to do a hybrid techno/edm/trance/tech set - the edm is the hardest to fit, but am finding tracks that bend to go in there.

Would love to EDM to become more commonplace in clubs - but has to be twisted up so works well.

ICN

I recently got a couple of new sample packs & have been trying out the loops - but like others have said, taking a bit out here & there.

The Enveloper in Logic is really good for tightening up a loop, or part (Killing the Release / Reverb), without going in & doing a rake of editing. I'm also going into the middle of the loop & rearranging it, bringing it forward a little until theres something interesting going on. The Convert to Sampler feature in Logic 9 is really handy for rearranging stuff like that & thats why I want to mess around a bit with it.

I've just been using them for little Perc bits & some Hats.

I'm trying make something & the moment & spent the last couple of days messing around with some Perc for it & just ended up binning it all & doing something different. Its just a bit of inspiration really.

I would never use melodies.

Found a couple of class vocal samples on a couple of old Ejay Disks that I bought for E5 in Gamestop or something years ago. :pac:

Mad stuff that just listening to it.. a lot of the loops in that dont properly loop, distort & clip a lot.. wonder if it sounded like that @ the time in the EJ software & if people complained about it?

ICN

Neurojazz wrote: »

IDM? -is that the same as EDM?

Difference is IDM is Intelligent! :pac:














joke!

krd

ICN wrote: »

Difference is IDM is Intelligent! :pac:






joke!

IDM is basically Dance Music you can't dance to.


I think the real art to good EDM, is creating something that people can dance to. Which is trickier than it seems. Having the groove moving in a way that makes people bop.


IDM is when you get lost. IDM is basically what I'm playing on my Ableton at the minute - few synth arps with echo and filter sweeps, with no real structure. It would some the absolute dogs bollixs if this were 1989. To turn it into something would actually take a lot more work.

So IDM is not so intelligent. It's trying to pass off not having a clue as intentional.

I actually think EDM has become a lot more sophisticated. Minimal over the last few years, and deep/tech house, I've heard stuff that's really blown me away.


There is a lot of **** out there. There can be a huge difference in quality. But then again I don't know if everyone can hear, or notice the differences.

Dramatik

I like using pre-made loops but I would never use them dry in a track without editing them heavily. For me the fun is in desguising them, cutting them up, re-arranging the parts, playing them at strange timings, changing pitch, adding effects ect. Ringshifter has to be one of my favourite effects. A cool thing that works really well with percussion loops is to loop it at 3/4 of a bar instead of the full bar it gives it a strange feeling that can sometimes work really well in a track.

Executive Steve

seannash wrote: »

no.most producers who are having any sort of success or influence are making there own drum loops from one shot samples.

most people who use loops are just starting out and as yet dont know how to make a proper drum groove.
for my tracks i make all my own effects,stabs,leads,pads,bass and whatever other melodic elements are in them.
i use one shot hits to make my drum tracks and any samples i use are usually vocal or brass.

loops are to blame for alot of influx alright especially with the likes of ableton making it easy to sync them all together but those sort of productions dont generally recieve too much press and dont sway the developement or progress of a particular genre

Bull****.

Good LUCK making a "proper drum groove" out of single hits, unless you're making fisher-price house music...

Executive Steve

Neurojazz wrote: »

IDM? -is that the same as EDM?

The major genres are just that - a genre won't stray from it's formula (god forbid), anything that strays either becomes EDM (or IDM - please correct me) or another genre.

At the moment i'm attempting to get enough material to do a hybrid techno/edm/trance/tech set - the edm is the hardest to fit, but am finding tracks that bend to go in there.

Would love to EDM to become more commonplace in clubs - but has to be twisted up so works well.

EDM is commonplace in clubs - it's what the yanks call pretty much anything that's "electronic dance music".

IDM is another term promulgated by clueless yanks back in the 90's (mainly because of a very popular email-list - lol, remember them?).


*edit*

And I've seen crowds go spastic to Squarepusher tunes and Aphex tunes in clubs when they've been mixed in sparingly and with a bit of thought put into them, so it's not impossible.

Some of the stuff I'd play in a warm-up set would verge on the deeper end of experimental electronica too, but retain juuuust enough "dj-friendliness" to be able to mix it...

Neurojazz

Executive Steve wrote: »

Bull****.

Good LUCK making a "proper drum groove" out of single hits, unless you're making fisher-price house music...

Been doing it for about 15 years now and only made 1 house track - people do make them you know

It takes time, care and a lot of love - i'd also layer up pre-made loops if they added something in a passage, but never use one as the core of the rhythm.

Come to think of it, i think 90% of the music i've made is custom, handmade loops from the off - many people make music in different ways, not just your way of thinking that they are. If you can't accept that other people do things differently then this really isn't the forum for you

jtsuited

Executive Steve wrote: »

Bull****.

Good LUCK making a "proper drum groove" out of single hits, unless you're making fisher-price house music...

??

jiltloop

Executive Steve wrote: »

Bull****.

Good LUCK making a "proper drum groove" out of single hits, unless you're making fisher-price house music...

I've been making drum loops out of single hits for 6 years and I don't make house music. In fact I don't remember ever using premade drum loops. Half the fun was learning how to put them together myself.

Neurojazz

jiltloop wrote: »

I've been making drum loops out of single hits for 6 years and I don't make house music. In fact I don't remember ever using premade drum loops. Half the fun was learning how to put them together myself.

Skills - Fun or Learning - exactly what life is all about

My next challenge is to make grooves like this - (a fair bit in when it's all rocking) - OMG

It's pretty syncopated, going to be hard to nail - but fun to get close to something that jacks like that.

jiltloop

^^ yeah thats nice. Got me thinking though that there's nothing wrong with using sampled loops when you can do this to them (assuming he sampled some amen or other type breaks which I'm sure he did):

seannash

Executive Steve wrote: »

Bull****.

Good LUCK making a "proper drum groove" out of single hits, unless you're making fisher-price house music...

hate to dissapoint you man but it is how its done.

if you look up any tutorials online from producers from any genre and youll see they piece them together.

the old amen break was cut into its individual hits and rearranged for a **** load of tracks(i know your aware of this)

thats not to say people dont use loops but the majority of good producers make there own

Stomp Events

Normally i am pulling a lot of my one shots from pre-made loops, so in a way, every track.

A kick here, a hat there, rearrange into something new.

Kenny DNK

a lot of loops you buy have been overly compressed/mastered so you have no real life inthem.. and of course you have the other side of the timbre of the loop not suiting the rest of the track, which you cant change then..

Best bet is to make the loops yourself, not too hard really, especially with abletons groove pool.. at least then when you get down to mixdown, if a hat needs changing in the loop, its pretty handy do..

DylanJM

Bull****.

Good LUCK making a "proper drum groove" out of single hits, unless you're making fisher-price house music...

Wait, is this a joke? Has to be. How exactly do you think drum loops are made exactly? By magic?

Back on topic the only loops I ever use are drum loops and I only use them to chop them up. Never use them straight always chop 'em up into single hits and re arrange into my own beat. I can't understand how anyone could use a stock music loop in their "own" song. I mean where's the originality and creativity in that?

Anima

I think I know what Steve is saying and it makes sense in a drum and bass context. These days to make a drum break, you have your kick drum and a lead snare which are usually very clean/loud one shot samples. Then the swing and groove is provided by drum break samples underneath(amen etc).

Usually you don't chop them up so much because you want to keep the original rhythm in the sample. It's generally very hard if not impossible to get a realistic swing from using one shots. It just doesn't sound natural / as good.

seannash

Anima wrote: »

I think I know what Steve is saying and it makes sense in a drum and bass context. These days to make a drum break, you have your kick drum and a lead snare which are usually very clean/loud one shot samples. Then the swing and groove is provided by drum break samples underneath(amen etc).

Usually you don't chop them up so much because you want to keep the original rhythm in the sample. It's generally very hard if not impossible to get a realistic swing from using one shots. It just doesn't sound natural / as good.

i still find it very hard to believe that the top d&b producers are using loops.
in fact i dont think they do.

i did my first ever d&b track a few weeks ago.the drums were all one shots
yes it was a ****e track but im pretty sure with some practice i could do a pretty convincing d&b beat so people who have been at it years would definitely be capable of it.

also im not sure people who make electronic music are trying to emanulate a real drummer.yes groove is important but that can all be added to the arrangement manually and with swing settings

Anima

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYMC57ldgE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwBFcCTKUIk

Both those guys are well known and use the method I mentioned above.

Of course not every track has to be done like that, a lot of tracks do use just single hits. I'm just saying traditionally in drum and bass you use lots of layered break samples. Filtered EQ'd compressed together. It takes a lot of work to get right.

seannash

Anima wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYMC57ldgE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwBFcCTKUIk

Both those guys are well known and use the method I mentioned above.

Of course not every track has to be done like that, a lot of tracks do use just single hits. I'm just saying traditionally in drum and bass you use lots of layered break samples. Filtered EQ'd compressed together. It takes a lot of work to get right.

i get what you mean but were not doing traditional music anymore.

i didnt see overwhelming evidence in those videos that there using only snare and kicks on top of loops.

they seem to be just consolidating the hits into loops within there daw.the first video they do say they use a break from an old hip hop sample cd but its hardly the backbone of the drum track.

the second one the snare track,he says, is a combination of sample(they could be singles or overlayered loops).

anyway like you said it can be done with single hits or with loops but i believe its more common to do it with single hits.especially outside of d&b.(i still think its the one hits technique in drum and bass)

Steves call of bull**** is wrong in the grand scheme of things as i still believe in electronic music single hits it the way drums are done

stoneruile

That call of bull**** is absolute tripe. Of course you can make realistic sounding drum grooves from single hits. You can lift grooves from real drum tracks and apply them to your programmed hits in almost every DAW now. If you take the time to program the hits correctly you can get a very realistic sounding break. Steve you should know that from being around DOA. A lot of the guys just use one shots.