Best background for MMA?

Rickson1

Just want to see from everyones own experiences and views, what do you think is the best background (kickboxing, BJJ, wrestling, judo, boxing) to have to come into MMA with?
And what seems to be doing the best e.g. the BJJ guys, the wrestlers or the kickboxers etc?

Wrestling. You can decide where the fight goes. It also tends to attract great athletes and mould intense competitors.

Stuffy

It depends on your standard of the certain style, you could be a poor wrestler and get submitted by a high class BJJ and visa versa.

Usually if you have a top class wrestler and a top class bjj fighter the wrestler will usually prevail as they won't get caught in subs and can cut off angles for sweeps etc.

Big contrast between ground style and stand up though, you need a solid stand up and ground game to be able to compete at a high level or you will be eventually found out. If you only had experience in one of Kickboxing, BJJ, Wrestling, Judo and Boxing you could forget about it.

Wrestlers are doing the best at the moment and have prob been the most successful.

Rickson1

Yeah the wrestlers (of good calibur) seem to do the best in MMA. However wrestling doesn't have quite the same 'finesse' as the BJJ artists so I don't see why they are doing the best but they are.
Seems that everyone at the top of the MMA world have great wrestling and make good use of it (GSP, Rashad, Brock, Carwin etc) Even the guys from BJJ backgrounds such as Jacare are using it alot more. Although it will only take you so far as you need the sub skills to finish what you started by taking the guy down.

Daniel2oo9

Wrestling.Thing is though My Trainer is a black belt in Judo and throws are Very hard to defend

JJayoo

My Trainer is a black belt in Judo and throws are Very hard to defend

Its a very different story when the gi isn't worn

Tim_Murphy

Wrestling for sure. Allows a person to dictate where the fight goes and it is inherently more athletic than something like BJJ which obviously goes a long way in a fight.

David Jones

Wrestling as you control where fight goes. If you want to see two guys throwdown on the feet put two wrestlers in a cage, it almost never hits the floor.

cowzerp

Wrestling without a doubt, add basic boxing to that and you have a fighter, same cant be applied to other arts, All grappling to some degree but the ability to decide if the fight stays standing or goes to ground really makes wrestling great for MMA, of course BJJ knowledge is essential as is muay thai too for a true MMA fighter.

Jason McCabe

I think the big problem with BJJ is they ease they go to their back.

I think there should be penalties for doing so. If they had to fight harder for position it would benefit the BJJ game in the long run.


I know this discussion has occured elsewhere on boards

Odats

Wrestling I believe is the best base for MMA. Add to that basic BJJ, Boxing/Muay Thai and you are there more or less have a good grounding for MMA.
But what I believe is it is not the specific discipline that is key but how you transition it into being applicable to MMA.
What we are going to see in the next ten years is the young kids who are starting now and I see it in the club that I train in that are starting with MMA as their base and in a few years time they will be excellent fighters that will hopefully compete at the highest level.
PS regards wrestling it is probably hard to get wrestlers of good calibre over here but don't Next Generation have an NCAA Div 1 wrestler coaching there and probably a few Eastern European Olympic standard wrestlers around Dublin.

Rickson1

David Jones wrote: »

Wrestling as you control where fight goes. If you want to see two guys throwdown on the feet put two wrestlers in a cage, it almost never hits the floor.

Yeah completely agree here. It's weird that alot (if not most) clubs in Ireland actually dont do wrestling then, or if they are doing it, they are doing it incorrectly lol
Regarding going to your back easily..at the end of the day it's a fight and guys will go wherever they feel most comfortable to win so you can't criticise that I suppose.

cletus

Rickson1 wrote: »

Yeah completely agree here. It's weird that alot (if not most) clubs in Ireland actually dont do wrestling then, or if they are doing it, they are doing it incorrectly lol

We simply dont have a history of wrestling in this country like they do in, say, the US, where they can progress from highschool to collegiate wrestling, where the training borders on professional

Will Heffernan

The obvious answer is...being a ninja.

Nothing's worse than a ninja...they're masters of every style of combat.

Marty Mc

Have to echo what has been said and say wrestling.

If you can, should find a good wrestling coach, Rickson1, and try it out.

But that said, good coaches are hard to find.

Pin_Cushion

Muay Thai has to be the best, there's an argument being made for wrestling but that could be due to all the wrestlers in UFC lately. The fact that there's the wall of a cage there to push people up against and control seems to favour wrestlers heavily.

The rules of the game could change in the future as it has in the past, and other organizations that prefer to use the ring could come back to the fore.

Marty Mc

Pin_Cushion wrote: »

Muay Thai has to be the best, there's an argument being made for wrestling but that could be due to all the wrestlers in UFC lately. The fact that there's the wall of a cage there to push people up against and control seems to favour wrestlers heavily. QUOTE]

So wrestlers dont shoot singles/doubles/bodylock in the middle of the cage and finish takedowns there?

How does a Muay Thai fighter keep the fight standing if he hasnt an understanding of the wrestling range?

Rickson1

Seems to be unanimously in favour of wrestling (although the ninja idea is very interesting haha). Must see about training with some decent wrestlers if there are any...although I hear it has to be the worst sport for getting cauliflower ears!

Pin_Cushion

I don't mean that you can be successful with just striking, but the fight starts standing. Of course everyone that has any success needs a high level of wrestling, as well as a high level of everything else. But it's just one element of the game, and it's been pushed to prominence lately due to a number of factors.

At the highest level of competition, American-style wrestling can be definitive in the dominance of competitors, I agree. But I still think that Muay Thai/boxing/kickboxing will win you more fights against a wider range of styles.

cletus

Pin_Cushion wrote: »

but the fight starts standing.

so do wrestling matches

Pin_Cushion wrote: »

But it's just one element of the game, and it's been pushed to prominence lately due to a number of factors.

I would say it came to prominance back in '96 with Mark Coleman

UltimateMale

cletus wrote: »

We simply dont have a history of wrestling in this country like they do in, say, the US, where they can progress from highschool to collegiate wrestling, where the training borders on professional

Firstly, agree with everyone who say wrestling as it dominates where the fight will take place, on it's feet or on the ground.

And also, I think the main difference between European and American MMA fighters is wrestling. We can strike ( maybe even better ), BJJ has come a long way ( not as good as the Americans and Brazilians of course, but still we can cope ), but wrestling is the big difference. Look at Koscheck and Daley, GSP and Hardy.

I think it was Dana White or Joe Rogan who once said " the European guys can strike, only problem is, if there's a logo on the mat they'd be taken down by it "

Clive

Wrestling is hard and simple, that's why it forms the best base for MMA. When your background is rooted in intensity, reality and simplicity you know how to train properly.

Sadly, this is also the reason why most people don't wrestle.

UltimateMale

Out of curiosity, how many of you -

A) Specifically train at wrestling weekly

Train at wrestling, but only as part of your MMA class ( which can include, striking and BJJ ) ?

Tim_Murphy

Clive wrote: »

Wrestling is hard and simple, that's why it forms the best base for MMA. When your background is rooted in intensity, reality and simplicity you know how to train properly.

Sadly, this is also the reason why most people don't wrestle.

Well said. It amazes me how many people will train BJJ but avoid wrestling like the plague.

UltimateMale wrote:

Out of curiosity, how many of you -

A) Specifically train at wrestling weekly

Train at wrestling, but only as part of your MMA class ( which can include, striking and BJJ ) ?

I train wrestling by itself and as part of MMA training.

baaaa

What about non combat sports,which non combat sport helps your mma do you think?

Rickson1

UltimateMale wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how many of you -

A) Specifically train at wrestling weekly

Train at wrestling, but only as part of your MMA class ( which can include, striking and BJJ ) ?

I train at it specifically now and also as part of an mma class. Really brings on your ground game aswell, which is surprising. It has to be the hardest aspect of our sport and anybody who starts it for the first time, no matter how much rolling experience, will find it tough. Takes time getting used to dragging eachother around on the feet and shooting with consistent speed and strength.

UltimateMale

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

I train wrestling by itself and as part of MMA training.

Not been bitchy, does it meet your needs or would you like to do more just on wrestling but cannot get the time/energy due to striking, coaching etc ?

rovert

What would people say is the worst? Judo?

Sid_Justice

Karate
UFC video game

Is there any bad judo based people in the ufc? Karo did very well for a while and was a title contender. Fedor is almost unstoppable, don't forget he was an A-class judo competitor back in the day. Hector Lombard etc.

Jason McCabe

I would recognise Fedor as Sambo - not judo. And this is coming from an ex judoka

pablohoney87

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Is there any bad judo based people in the ufc? Karo did very well for a while and was a title contender. Fedor is almost unstoppable, don't forget he was an A-class judo competitor back in the day. Hector Lombard etc.

I think kaz nakamura has a black belt in judo. Sokodjou uses a lot of judo trips and think he went to the olympics for cameroon. Hes a 2nd dan as far as i know.
Also Sexyama and yoshida

Professey Chin

Kim Dong-hyun would have a strong judo base and is undefeated.
Does fly under the radar a lot though, bit like Okami

Ramunas

I think BJJ is a good too for MMA . We have two wrestlers champions in UFC . Sorry now three . But in next one i believe BJ will kick frankies ass. Look Anderson(choke Henderson) , Shogun(can beat any wrestler), Jose Aldo(too) who beating wrestlers . It's all about fighter .Wrestler can beat BJJ guy, BJJ can beat wrestler. Yes i agree that wrestling is dominant too. Look like Couture cant do anything with his wrestling against Nogueira. I see BJJ guys have better striking abilities than wrestlers.

Marty Mc

Clive wrote: »

Wrestling is hard and simple, that's why it forms the best base for MMA.

Clive, do you really believe wrestling to be simple?

Clive

Marty Mc wrote: »

Clive, do you really believe wrestling to be simple?

Just to clarify, when I say simple, I don't mean simplistic or lacking in detail and subtlety - just that it's based around a solid core of fundamental techniques that are honed to perfection. What you learn in the first two months are the same things you are going to be drilling over and over. Especially wrestling for MMA, where a lot of the setups etc are not needed. I've improved my wrestling a lot over the last year but there's still just about five things I do.

In contrast most BJJ guys have a huge amount of techniques and it's only when they (generally) get quite a bit of experience that they stop adding volume and start adding detail. This is especially true for BJJ guys who begin to fight in MMA - everything is pared down to just a solid core of techniques that are simple and secure.

Just my two cents of course.

Marty Mc

Clive wrote: »

Just to clarify, when I say simple, I don't mean simplistic or lacking in detail and subtlety - just that it's based around a solid core of fundamental techniques that are honed to perfection. What you learn in the first two months are the same things you are going to be drilling over and over. Especially wrestling for MMA, where a lot of the setups etc are not needed. I've improved my wrestling a lot over the last year but there's still just about five things I do.

In contrast most BJJ guys have a huge amount of techniques and it's only when they (generally) get quite a bit of experience that they stop adding volume and start adding detail. This is especially true for BJJ guys who begin to fight in MMA - everything is pared down to just a solid core of techniques that are simple and secure.

Just my two cents of course.

Makes lot of sense. Interesting contrast to bjj and mma.
Its something that i hadnt thought alot about.

Tim_Murphy

UltimateMale wrote: »

Not been bitchy, does it meet your needs or would you like to do more just on wrestling but cannot get the time/energy due to striking, coaching etc ?

I've actually been putting a fair bit of focus on wrestling for about the last year or so but I'd still like to do more. That said, there's other things I'd like to do more of too (e.g. Gi) but there's only so much time for everything.