"Creating Kicks"

Four-Percent

I've heard this term mentioned over and over again in interviews with famous producers but I'm still none the wiser as to how they do it. Most of the kicks I have are utter ****e and I can't find any decent explanations online.

How do you go about "making" a decent kick?Do you start with a pre-recorded sample or what? Or is it all just post-production that makes a fairly normal sample sound amazing? I'm clueless here :rolleyes:

Neurojazz

Loads of free ones here that are from 909/808 gear.

http://www.spiralking.com/samples/

You can layer different ones, add a bit of overdrive to change the punch and tone... plus many other things.

I end up usually using a vengeance kick and shelving the bottom off a little, using an eq to also remove any mud and then compressing a little until it sounds nice.

seannash

rob them from tracks you like(intros,outros)

and yes 320's are fine to sample from

Anima

Depends what you want really. If you want a real life kick drum then you'll simply have to sample one you like.

A synthesised kick is actually quite easy to make. If you look at most kicks in a spectrum analyser you'll see that its a sharp sweep from a frequency around ~150 Hz to ~50 Hz in a few milliseconds. You can make them in any softsynth. Its really just the envelopes you have to get right. Once you have that base sound, usually a certain amount of distortion and/or reverb will get you that vengenance sound. That coupled with some compression or transient editor.

oootini

try recording them from a good techno 12" on an expensive 1210 turntable.

seannash

oootini wrote: »

try recording them from a good techno 12" on an expensive 1210 turntable.

oh its on.


ding ding


round two

oootini

seannash wrote: »

oh its on.


ding ding


round two

lollers. only messin. would you really use mp3 samples in your tracks though?

Neurojazz

I think most the kick around were made either with 'Little Drummer Boy', analogs or the early drum machines (which were either analogs or PCM samples of real drums or analogs)

The TR-909 for Dance music and the TR-808 for jungle/drum and bass/chillout

Very few things had 'that' sound at the time.

Any synth can make them pretty much - transient editing sounds fun, how the hell to do that?

Neurojazz

oootini wrote: »

lollers. only messin. would you really use mp3 samples in your tracks though?

The low end in MP3 is not to bad - it's the top end information that gets averaged out or removed (as it's more detailed and faster moving = more data)

I personally wouldn't, but should be fine for dance music.

seannash

oootini wrote: »

lollers. only messin. would you really use mp3 samples in your tracks though?

yep.
ive done it a few times

this is the last one i did it on and to be honest i didnt notice any difference and noone said anything to me about it

http://soundcloud.com/seannash/sean-nash-anchored-groove-unprepaired-mix


i do use wav samples but if i cant find them ill use 320.

actually the vocal in that track is lesser quality again as i ripped it from youtube but because i treated it its not that noticeable imo.

(when i say not noticeable i mean if i hadnt told you i dont think anyone would spot it without listening out for it)

Sham Squire

A couple of things:

Layering sounds. Try it, it's fun and it works really well. As an example take a wooly low end kick and layer it with a clicky snapping sound with virtually no low end. EQ both to taste. Mmmm.

EQ and Compress "in the mix". When you've got something to start working with, EQ and Compress while listening to the whole mix. Some people work on the kick on it's own for ages til it sounds lovely and then find it's totally wrong alongside everything else.

Outside of those two things I build my own kicks using sounds from my MBase 11 or Moog. They're a really convenient way of working with pure analog signals and I can find the kick I'm looking for very quickly. I have wasted hours of my life I will never get back going through sample packs without finding what I was after.

lazyatom

i found this guys tutorial on YouTube to be invaluable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IpWSIttXbw&feature=PlayList&p=9CE5A1FB128C1AA9&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=5

ICN

Theres actually a feature in Computer Music this Month - Current Ambient Issue - that goes into making / layering kicks, if anyone is interested in having an aul read while looking @ some Pic's.

Didn't buy it myself.. Music Tech Synthesis Special won out in the end.

jtsuited

i spent years doing all sorts of layering and trickery with bunches of samples and using synths to make all different bits of kicks etc.

and you know what.......
nothing ever compared to either an 808 or 909 kick. Start with a good 808/909/707 sample and work from there.

ICN

909 style kicks are usually always what I'm looking for.

808's just seem too deep & I dont really bother to mess with layering something on top.. never really works out.

jtsuited

I actually like to keep it really really simple these days and use a 909 for the attack and an 808 for the sub/bottom.
And I sample from vinyl for a bit of 'dust' on each kick. Actually helps it cut through.

ICN

jtsuited wrote: »

And I sample from vinyl for a bit of 'dust' on each kick. Actually helps it cut through.

Ahh.. Like a Daft Punk Kick.. LOL


I've tried adding a little white noise on top for the Hi's a couple of times & it sounds cool.

Does the "dust" have a bit of reverb on it & stereo? or is it dry & mono?

A lot of those Vengeance Kicks just have a big dirty Hat on top - I usually like a clippy type sound or something short. Got the Wave Alchemy Drum Tools recently & theres some really cool sounding ones in it, all ready to go.

jtsuited

ICN wrote: »

Does the "dust" have a bit of reverb on it & stereo? or is it dry & mono?

no reverb and regarding stereo it depends which sits better - mono or stereo.

ICN

jtsuited wrote: »

no reverb and regarding stereo it depends which sits better - mono or stereo.

Cheers jt.


Btw.. There are some free sample packs available to DL from the Wave Alchemy w/site if anyone wants to give them a sus. They've a free Kick pack there too..

Main Site http://www.wavealchemy.co.uk/

Club Kicks & Drum Tools Free Packs - http://www.wavealchemy.co.uk/drum-samples/ty1/p3

Club Kicks 2 - http://www.wavealchemy.co.uk/club_kicks_2/pid60

Sham Squire

Been having lots of success with the MBase 11 lately. Being able to tweak away while listening to your kick in the mix has been a revelation. I might post a youtube vid.

oootini

i was messing about with a 50hz sine tone yesterday, mix paste onto any old clicky sound (i used a sample of a lego brick clacking), eq, filter to taste. yum.

Sham Squire

Whack it in a vintage looking box and stick it on ebay for a few hundred quid. I'll buy it.

Executive Steve

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?threadid=443140&cache=173

^ bit of a long read, but worth it.

Dramatik

I usually use a sine wave, modulate the pitch from high to low so it starts up high then drops down, I then adust the attack and release depending the length of kick I have in mind. If I still haven't got the kick I'm looking for, I usually add a little distortion or bitcrusher and finaly some eq. You can do this with samples too but there might be a loss in quality of the sample if you modulate the pitch too much also the length will be defined by the length of the sample itself. That's why I prefer too use a sine wave, it gives me more options to shape the kick. I hope this helps.