Rafa is gone.(mod warning @ post 762)

The Davestator

Some serious blinkered views being expressed

"He brought in Torres, and made him a world class player"

Is that why every team in the world had been after Torres for about 3 years?!!

Yes, Rafa, got him to sign for LFC and deserves praise for that but little else IMO.

LuckyLloyd

There are two parts to this:

There is what is past. I was six in 1990, so I have no real personal memories from the rough 20 year period when we were the best club in English football on the field. My own memories of being a Liverpool fan have seen four managers: Souness, Evans, Houllier and Benitez. Liverpool have easily been most relevant during the latter of these tenures. The five year period from 2004 - 2009 is without a shadow of a doubt the most awesome time I can remember as a Liverpool fan. Two Champions League finals; epic exits at the semi and quarter finals stages respectively; an FA Cup final win that will never, ever be forgotten; and the only real title challenge I can properly remember.

Benitez owes Liverpool and their fans absolutely nothing. He worked his ass off attempting to push on every aspect of the club, and left nothing in the locker. I am left with a deep gratitude for all he gave us over the six years, and wish him all the best as he moves on - and expect him to move on to a situation that is better than where Liverpool stand right now this minute.

---

So where to? The anti - Rafa brigade has gotten what they wanted. That group roughly contains two elements. Fans of other clubs who have used Benitez as a convenient cover for their dislike of Liverpool the club in all its elements. "Fans" of Liverpool who stopped supporting the club at some point and came to stand for nothing other than what they were against. The former group can now be licking their lips whereas the latter are probably going to receive a harsh lesson in what the old phrase "be careful what you wish for" means.

With Benitez gone, a lot of worst case scenarios now stand ready to play themselves out in full. Torres and Mascherano are Benitez's players. With him out of the picture, they will probably conclude that they have little reason to stay. Hodgson has recommitted his future to Fulham, Grant has completed his move to West Ham, Blanc has been confirmed as French manager, Mourinho has gone to Real. Remaining managerial possibilities (of the realistic variety) will be a massive step down in terms of tactical know how. And with a period of monster upheaval in the squad about to begin augmented by financial difficulties that will cut into the amount of reinvestment that can be undertaken - having to weather the storm with a limited pilot at the helm fills me with dread.

If Benitez had stayed on, there was every chance that the squad could have been more or less held together and a return to the collective production of 2008 / 9 achieved. Now...well now we get to see what the bottom looks like.

~Rebel~

The Davestator wrote: »

Some serious blinkered views being expressed

"He brought in Torres, and made him a world class player"

Is that why every team in the world had been after Torres for about 3 years?!

Yes, Rafa, got him to sign for LFC and deserves praise for that but little else IMO.

I don't know how much you watched him back then, but if you did, you'd already know Torres was potential when we bought him. He scored in batches and then didn't score for weeks on end.

He was a good finisher on his day, but regularly missed easy chances when under pressure.

Virtually as soon as he arrived at Liverpool every aspect of his game improved.

This was glaringly obvious if you had watched him before and after his move.

Incidentally, torres said the exact same thing


Rafael Benítez has made me a better player, says Fernando Torres

"I remember when I signed for the club people were questioning me as a goalscorer. I received criticism because I wasn't getting goals. The first thing he told me was that I was signed to score goals. Benítez is adamant that I live in the [penalty] area because that's where you get goals. That was the first thing he told me, the wing is for the wingers, and that the striker should be focused on the two rival centre-backs."

Mental Mickey

everdead.ie wrote: »

I'm surprised oleary isn't included in those odds he's normally included in these jobs isn't he.

You have got to be joking?? He hasn't had a managerial position since Villa dumped him. Doesn't that tell you a little something?

everdead.ie

Mental Mickey wrote: »

You have got to be joking?? He hasn't had a managerial position since Villa dumped him. Doesn't that tell you a little something?

He never gets any position but he's always included in the odds I wouldn't expect him to get the job but it's the first time I can remember him not being mentioned at all.

ShamoBuc

gutted he is gone to be honest but life goes on...
time to change my sig I guess!!

eagle eye

Thats an awfully pessimistic post LL.

I don't agree with it either. How many clubs have fallen away because a manager leaves? Usually there is improvement in the short term. Sure there are going to be changes but every manager has players he likes and dislikes.

Benitez spent a lot of cash on big signings, we know he got some back too but for all that was spent there was no league title.

I do think that Liverpool can improve under the right man, I don't believe that everybody is going to jump up and want to leave because a manager, who it does seem lost the respect of the players, has left the club. I look forward to seeing if Ryan Babel improves now when he is given a proper role, similarly Lucas when his defensive midfield shackles are taken off.

That_Guy

everdead.ie wrote: »

I'm surprised oleary isn't included in those odds he's normally included in these jobs isn't he.

Please give him the job so I don't have to listen to his crap Star ads.

Mental Mickey

No............leave him in the Star.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats an awfully pessimistic post LL.

I don't agree with it either. How many clubs have fallen away because a manager leaves? Usually there is improvement in the short term. Sure there are going to be changes but every manager has players he likes and dislikes.

Benitez spent a lot of cash on big signings, we know he got some back too but for all that was spent there was no league title.

I do think that Liverpool can improve under the right man, I don't believe that everybody is going to jump up and want to leave because a manager, who it does seem lost the respect of the players, has left the club. I look forward to seeing if Ryan Babel improves now when he is given a proper role, similarly Lucas when his defensive midfield shackles are taken off.

Do you really think those players are going to be chuffed at the thought of working with MON or Klinsmann? As a Liverpool fan I really fear for the future, I can only imagine how the players must feel and if given the chance to get out I'd be amazed if they turned it down.

That_Guy

Is Curbishley in the list of odds?

LuckyLloyd

jank wrote: »

Looks like I will be collecting earlier than expected.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65508600&postcount=25276

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65441821&postcount=24907

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65441829&postcount=24908

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65440626&postcount=24901

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65440597&postcount=24900

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65440349&postcount=24898

Not a poor man at all headshot

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65441898&postcount=24910


So are we men or are we mice?

lol, anyone who confirmed an access bet with him should be gone from this forum for good.

Degag

Roy Hodgson at 4/1 would be my bet although i think he said that he was staying at Fulham.

Peyton Manning

ShamoBuc wrote: »

gutted he is gone to be honest but life goes on...
time to change my sig I guess!!

Your sig is the least of your worries.

You owe jank €100.

That_Guy

Degag wrote: »

Roy Hodgson at 4/1 would be my bet although i think he said that he was staying at Fulham.

No way he'd leave Fulham. Not after the two seasons they've had. Also if a takeover happens there's no gurantee that he'd be there on a long term basis.

PHB

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Do you really think those players are going to be chuffed at the thought of working with MON or Klinsmann? As a Liverpool fan I really fear for the future, I can only imagine how the players must feel and if given the chance to get out I'd be amazed if they turned it down.

In the last year, I'd imagine an awful lot of the players lost faith in Benetiz. Player exodus's get talked about a lot when managers leave, but it rarely if ever happens. Players cost an awful lot of money to move. They are in their contracts, and if Torres, Maschernao and Gerrard leave, frankly, I don't think it'll be because of Rafa not being there anymore, it'll be because Liverpool are a club currently in the UEFA Cup with no transfer funds to spend.

noodler

The Davestator wrote: »

Some serious blinkered views being expressed

"He brought in Torres, and made him a world class player"

Is that why every team in the world had been after Torres for about 3 years?!!

Yes, Rafa, got him to sign for LFC and deserves praise for that but little else IMO.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I don't know how much you watched him back then, but if you did, you'd already know Torres was potential when we bought him. He scored in batches and then didn't score for weeks on end.

He was a good finisher on his day, but regularly missed easy chances when under pressure.

Virtually as soon as he arrived at Liverpool every aspect of his game improved.

This was glaringly obvious if you had watched him before and after his move.

Incidentally, torres said the exact same thing


Rafael Benítez has made me a better player, says Fernando Torres

So do we credit Rafa for taking Keane from the verge of being a truly class player and instead ruining him?

For wrecking Morientes?

Failing completely to develop Babel?

I think we need to be careful about how much we attribute a player's class to Rafa - in both ways.

leninbenjamin

herbieflowers wrote: »

Tbh, I think it was the right time for him to leave. Liverpool had a jaded, stale look about them last season, in part due to the ownership wranglings. Hopefully a new manager can do the miraclous and rejuvenate the side with nothing to spend!

Totally agree.

The main thing now is for Pool to get a new man in who can consolidate what they have, stabilize their performances on the pitch and generally make the club seem an attractive investment so the Americans can be shot of asap.

At the end of the day Pool have a pretty good core of players. A new manager might not have much cash to work with, but a shrewd sale and some wheeling and dealing and I think they could be back in the CL spots next season. As long as they get someone who can shore up the defence then they should be all right.

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So where to? The anti - Rafa brigade has gotten what they wanted. That group roughly contains two elements. Fans of other clubs who have used Benitez as a convenient cover for their dislike of Liverpool the club in all its elements. "Fans" of Liverpool who stopped supporting the club at some point and came to stand for nothing other than what they were against. The former group can now be licking their lips whereas the latter are probably going to receive a harsh lesson in what the old phrase "be careful what you wish for" means.

The idea that there was no argument to be made for Rafa's departure is pretty blinkered.

Plenty of fans are / were on the fence about it.

steelcityblues

Amazing the elements of those online who think its the media/the Americans/injured players/United fans/ David Cameron's, anyone but Rafa himself at fault for his departure.

He was great for ye initially, but his time has come. Accept it and look to the future!

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats an awfully pessimistic post LL.

I don't agree with it either. How many clubs have fallen away because a manager leaves? Usually there is improvement in the short term. Sure there are going to be changes but every manager has players he likes and dislikes.

Benitez spent a lot of cash on big signings, we know he got some back too but for all that was spent there was no league title.

I do think that Liverpool can improve under the right man, I don't believe that everybody is going to jump up and want to leave because a manager, who it does seem lost the respect of the players, has left the club. I look forward to seeing if Ryan Babel improves now when he is given a proper role, similarly Lucas when his defensive midfield shackles are taken off.

lol, so? You were the guy who disagreed with me when I said Owen Coyle was making a good move jumping ship to Bolton. And you recently set the over / under on USA points from their WC group at 1. Your disagreement is noted and disregarded.

noodler wrote: »

The idea that there was no argument to be made for Rafa's departure is pretty blinkered.

Plenty of fans are / on the fence about it.

Sure. There is a difference between the trenchant anti - Rafa types (think Ardent) to the likes of yourself and whatawaster (genuine fans running out of patience). My post was very much aimed at the former.

LuckyLloyd

RasTa wrote: »

I expect Mike and Mayor to honour that bet? Is their termination with immediate effect? Lloyd was going on about Boggles who hasn't posted since he lost so I'll be trolling any post on theirs in the SF from now on if they welch.

My stance on bet making and paying the piper is the same for fans of all clubs! If the lads were stupid enough to make such a bet, they should be gone. Like CHD, I have no doubt jank would have fecked off for good if he was on the losing end and called up on it...

murpho999

Well I don't know how to feel today. One part of me is glad as he had a terrible season, which he must bear responsibility for, injuries cannot be the excuse as he assembled the squad and should have had decent cover. He also did make some very strange decisions regarding selections and substitutions over the years that did not show him off in a positive light.

On the other hand I am very worried about the future. I genuinely do not see an available manager of good enough stature to replace him.

The shortlist being talked about is not good enough.

Kenny Dalglish has not managed at top level for 10 years and his return, might be short time morale boosting but might prove as disasterous as Keegan going back to Newcastle.

Martin O'Neill, is a good manager but has not won anything at top level. Sorry but Celtic doesn't count for me. Also seems quite tempermental and would leave a club at the drop of a hat.

Roy Hodgson, also a good manager, but he is 62 and you'd wonder how long more he would want to be a manager for. He is also unproven at the highest level, as his period at Inter, his only major club was not exactly successful.
Guus Hiddink, no doubt a top quality manager, but again his age is a worry for me. He is 63 year old and also has a habit of moving jobs a lot.

We need now, to find a top quality manager, who is at the right age and who will be there for the long term, like Shankly & Paisley, and Busby & Ferguson at Utd.
I really don't know who that person is, just hope the board make the right decision. Also worried about the clubs financial situation, and ownership issues, non Champions League status might deter us getting the right man unless dismissing of Benitez is part of a masterplan by G&H to clear way for new owners and new investment.
Interesting days ahead whatever happens.

Dub13

The Davestator wrote: »

Some serious blinkered views being expressed

"He brought in Torres, and made him a world class player"

Is that why every team in the world had been after Torres for about 3 years?!!

Yes, Rafa, got him to sign for LFC and deserves praise for that but little else IMO.

To be far a lot of clubs were in for Torres but pulled out because of the price,IIRC Sir Alex was in at one stage.

super_furry

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1275123/Fulham-boss-Roy-Hodgson-admits-big-job.html

Hodgson would jump at it. He's probably the best realistic option but as long as it's not Martin O'Neill, I'll be happy.

Dub13

Protest tonight at Anfield

leninbenjamin

Ottmar Hitzfeld anyone? Said to be unhappy in international management (he used the words 'lonely' to describe it recently enough). Probably wont live up to the outlandish Swiss expectations, he might be convinced to take a stint abroad with such a prestigious club before he retires.

murpho999

Dub13 wrote: »

Protest tonight at Anfield

Oh, like burning American flags is going to help.

Don't see the poiint of these protests. Club is for sale. What more do people want?

podge018

murpho999 wrote: »

We need now, to find a top quality manager, who is at the right age and who will be there for the long term, like Shankly & Paisley, and Busby & Ferguson at Utd.

They just fired him mate.

Mr Alan

murpho999 wrote: »

Oh, like burning American flags is going to help.

Don't see the poiint of these protests. Club is for sale. What more do people want?

Them gone. Now. Burning a flag is all good in my book. Symbolic gesture to show how hated they are among our fanbase.

LuckyLloyd

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Ottmar Hitzfeld anyone? Said to be unhappy in international management (he used the words 'lonely' to describe it recently enough). Probably wont live up to the outlandish Swiss expectations, he might be convinced to take a stint abroad with such a prestigious club before he retires.

I'd have him in a heartbeat over O' Neill or Hughes that's for sure.

Dub13

murpho999 wrote: »

Oh, like burning American flags is going to help.

Don't see the poiint of these protests. Club is for sale. What more do people want?

People are expressing there anger at how the club has been run and trying to get them out the door as fast as we can.

RasTa

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My stance on bet making and paying the piper is the same for fans of all clubs! If the lads were stupid enough to make such a bet, they should be gone. Like CHD, I have no doubt jank would have fecked off for good if he was on the losing end and called up on it...

Well yeah I knew your stance would be the same no matter what club, hence me pointing out I would be adopting your approach as some posters were calling for the bet to be cancelled.

leninbenjamin

Dub13 wrote: »

People are expressing there anger at how the club has been run and trying to get them out the door as fast as we can.

Trying to force a sale by making the club's revenue base seem a lot more volatile to potential investors? Idiotic stuff tbh. SoS and the like need to cop on a bit.

Dub13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Trying to force a sale by making the club's revenue base seem a lot more volatile to potential investors? Idiotic stuff tbh. SoS and the like need to cop on a bit.

Nothing to do with SOS.

It should not be a shock to any investor that football fans are volatile.

Mr Alan

any future investors should know from the off that the kinda behaviour which is commonplace under the two ***** will not be taken lyin down. if it scares off people who have similar intentions, that's a good thing.

bamboozling

It is a sad day for the club because a good man is a victim of the mess that is the running of Liverpool FC. His record speaks for himself as he has one of the highest win ratios of any manager, better than King Kenny, a great night in Istanbul, a glorious FA cup final, great runs through Europe and our first proper tilt at the title in 20 years, winning 10 out of the last 11 games.


There is not a hope in hell that a world class manger will be found and still the Americans will continue to hit the self-destruct button. I think Liverpool are on the road into anonymity where upon we will soon be joined by our friends in Manchester.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

Them gone. Now. Burning a flag is all good in my book. Symbolic gesture to show how hated they are among our fanbase.

Burning a flag is more than that Al, it's an isult to an entire nation, A nation that liverpool may want to earn money from down the road.

RasTa

bamboozling wrote: »

There is not a hope in hell that a world class manger will be found and still the Americans will continue to hit the self-destruct button. I think Liverpool are on the road into anonymity where upon we will soon be joined by our friends in Manchester.

Must.Not.Bite.

murpho999

Mr Alan wrote: »

Them gone. Now. Burning a flag is all good in my book. Symbolic gesture to show how hated they are among our fanbase.

Same people were burning Gerrard's Liverpool jersey when he was supposed to be leaving for Chelsea in '05.

All seems a bit neanderthal to me.

jaykay74

bamboozling wrote: »

There is not a hope in hell that a world class manger will be found and still the Americans will continue to hit the self-destruct button. I think Liverpool are on the road into anonymity where upon we will soon be joined by our friends in Manchester.

The arabs will stick around for a year or 2 more at City before they get bored so City won't be joining you for a while yet.

leninbenjamin

Dub13 wrote: »

Nothing to do with SOS.

It should not be a shock to any investor that football fans are volatile.

Mr Alan wrote: »

any future investors should know from the off that the kinda behaviour which is commonplace under the two ***** will not be taken lyin down. if it scares off people who have similar intentions, that's a good thing.

They only way investors will ever meet the yanks buyout price is if the club demonstrates there is enough potential growth in the revenue streams. Boycotting the club and reducing its existing income, alienating certain lucrative elements of the fan base (US flag burning, wtf?) and generally behaving like thugs en mass is not good for the clubs international brand or its revenues. Seriously lads, ye need look at the bigger picture.

Dub13

The Muppet wrote: »

Burning a flag is more than that Al, it's an isult to an entire nation, A nation that liverpool may want to earn money from down the road.

I agree and I like the American people but times are tough and we have to make our mark,those two clowns have insulted all Liverpool fans.

steelcityblues

One of the weakest Man United squads in my lifetime took Chelsea to the last day of the league - the decline you want may not actually happen!

jaykay74

Dub13 wrote: »

I agree and I like the American people but times are tough and we have to make our mark,those two clowns have insulted all Liverpool fans.

It sends mixed messages to any Liverpool fans based in the US I guess.

Dub13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

They only way investors will ever meet the yanks buyout price is if the club demonstrates there is enough potential growth in the revenue streams. Boycotting the club and reducing its existing income, alienating certain lucrative elements of the fan base (US flag burning, wtf?) and generally behaving like thugs en mass is not good for the clubs international brand or its revenues. Seriously lads, ye need look at the bigger picture.

Do you honestly think that a hundred or so fans having a protest and burring a flag would stop a multi million buy out..?It would not.

We are fighting for the future of our club and some unfortunate things may have to be done,I am fine with that.

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

Burning a flag is more than that Al, it's an isult to an entire nation, A nation that liverpool may want to earn money from down the road.

If an Irish duo was raping a foreign club, i'd take no offence from a tri-colour being burnt as a symbol of the fans feelings towards the owners.

Dub13

jaykay74 wrote: »

It sends mixed messages to any Liverpool fans based in the US I guess.

A term the US Army have made us all aware of is 'collateral damage'.

Jazzy

fuk sake. i will be flabbergasted if we manage to get a manager of his pedigree to replace him. say what you want about him, but hes certainly better then many of the candidates for the job that are 'available'.

murpho999

Dub13 wrote: »

Do you honestly think that a hundred or so fans having a protest and burring a flag would stop a multi million buy out..?It would not.

We are fighting for the future of our club and some unfortunate things may have to be done,I am fine with that.

Hypothetical question: Wonder how you would have felt if some some Sunderland fans were protesting against the Drumaville Consortium a couple of years ago and started burning Irish tricolours?