Rafa is gone.(mod warning @ post 762)

steelcityblues

Mr Alan wrote: »

If an Irish duo was raping a foreign club, i'd take no offence from a tri-colour being burnt as a symbol of the fans feelings towards the owners.

What if some of them were making xenophobic comments too?

Burning the US flag?

What a clown that person is. Burn a picture of G&H if burning is your thing but the American flag

I'd say G&H are just saying to themselves "Right, lets fúck this club up even more"

bamboozling

steelcityblues wrote: »

One of the weakest Man United squads in my lifetime took Chelsea to the last day of the league - the decline you want may not actually happen!

Look I don't want United to go tits up at all. In fact it's a desperate indictment of the Premier League and it's lack of due care and attention that the two most historic clubs in England can be taken over by such scruppolous individuals.

However given the level of debt United have at the moment I just can't see things staying rosy. I think Ferguson and Rooney are holding things together and were either, let alone both, to leave in the near future the club would be facing down the barrel of a gun.

Mr Alan

steelcityblues wrote: »

What if some of them were making xenophobic comments too?

Like?

Dub13

murpho999 wrote: »

Hypothetical question: Wonder how you would have felt if some some Sunderland fans were protesting against the Drumaville Consortium a couple of years ago and started burning Irish tricolours?

I would try to inform myself as to why they were doing it,and if it was a case like the bleeding dry of LFC by the 2 clowns then I would understand.

Ush1

What does the country the owners are from have to do with anything?

If they were English, would they be burning Georges' crosses?

steelcityblues

bamboozling wrote: »

Look I don't want United to go tits up at all. In fact it's a desperate indictment of the Premier League and it's lack of due care and attention that the two most historic clubs in England can be taken over by such scruppolous individuals.

However given the level of debt United have at the moment I just can't see things staying rosy. I think Ferguson and Rooney are holding things together and were either, let alone both, to leave in the near future the club would be facing down the barrel of a gun.

Maybe, but don't guarantee this Man City renaissance to last for so long either - unpredictable Premier League season ahead!

murpho999

Dub13 wrote: »

I would try to inform myself as to why they were doing it,and if it was a case like the bleeding dry of LFC by the 2 clowns then I would understand.

Yea right, simple matter is if Hicks & Gillette were English they wouldn't be outside Anfield burning the George's Cross!

Edit: Ush1 just beat me to this point. Great minds think alike!

Mr Alan

its symbolic lads, seriously, very sensitive souls around here. life size effiges of Tom and George would be better, but aren't really readily available.

steelcityblues

Mr Alan wrote: »

Like?

You do know that not all football fans are 'nice' people? :rolleyes:

Dub13

murpho999 wrote: »

Yea right, simple matter is if Hicks & Gillette were English they wouldn't be outside Anfield burning the George's Cross!

LOL...Its not beyond the possible,the people of Liverpool are not huge fans of the British state.

davyjose

burning a flag has massive political connotations, and is quite a strong statement to make, about a nation's policies. Doing so because G & H happen to be American is ridiculous.

Has anyone noticed the Green and gold campaign is Love United, Hate glazer. No mention of the USA there, because we aren't trying to look like thugs, we just want our owners out.

The Muppet

Dub13 wrote: »

I agree and I like the American people but times are tough and we have to make our mark,those two clowns have insulted all Liverpool fans.

I agree with the objective but not the method, Burning an American Flag of all Flags is shortsighted in the extreme, The American People very proud of their Flag .

Mr Alan

steelcityblues wrote: »

You do know that not all football fans are 'nice' people? :rolleyes:

I'm just wondering wat sort of xenaphobic tunes you're talking about, the only one that springs to mind is 'wat do we want, yanks out. . .etc' and i have no issue with that.

murpho999

Mr Alan wrote: »

its symbolic lads, seriously, very sensitive souls around here. life size effiges of Tom and George would be better, but aren't really readily available.

Disagree, to me it's the mentality of the frenzied mob, like you would see in the Middle East and is hardly the actions of intelligent people. Gives the club a bad name.

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

I agree with the objective but not the method, Burning an American Flag of all Flags is shortsighted in the extreme, The American People very proud of their Flag .

Hence the gesture being quite a powerful symbol.

Dub13

The Muppet wrote: »

I agree with the objective but not the method, Burning an American Flag of all Flags is shortsighted in the extreme, The American People very proud of their Flag .

Its not something I would do myself,all I am saying is I understand why it was done.

steelcityblues

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm just wondering wat sort of xenaphobic tunes you're talking about, the only one that springs to mind is 'wat do we want, yanks out. . .etc' and i have no issue with that.

Well, anti-Irish comments/sentiment were not uncommon at British grounds until recently. Of course, still very much there at Ibrox - that is what I was thinking!

Mr Alan

murpho999 wrote: »

Disagree, to me it's the mentality of the frenzied mob, like you would see in the Middle East and is hardly the actions of intelligent people. Gives the club a bad name.

Wat would you advise? A strongly worded letter?

Mr Alan

steelcityblues wrote: »

Well, anti-Irish comments/sentiment were not uncommon at British grounds until recently. Of course, still very much there at Ibrox - that is what I was thinking!

You're kinda talking about something different though.

101001

ah hear lads... Burning the American flag, thats pure shi'te

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

If an Irish duo was raping a foreign club, i'd take no offence from a tri-colour being burnt as a symbol of the fans feelings towards the owners.

We're forever defacing our own Flag, Hill 16 on tour, Davy keogh says hello, It's not the same thing Al.

Mr Alan wrote: »

its symbolic lads, seriously, very sensitive souls around here. life size effiges of Tom and George would be better, but aren't really readily available.

I don't think you realise how sybolic it is AL.

steelcityblues

Mr Alan wrote: »

You're kinda talking about something different though.

You were the one who suggested that you would 'understand' if a Tricolour was burnt in hypothetical circumstances. I don't understand that mentality though.

Anyway, lets end that mini-discussion here.

leninbenjamin

Dub13 wrote: »

Do you honestly think that a hundred or so fans having a protest and burring a flag would stop a multi million buy out..?It would not.

Of course it might. Those fans are the clubs source of income, their actions in hard times make the revenues streams seem more volatile. That increases the levels of risk surrounding the entire investment and thus would reflect on the overall valuation of the company.

Liverpool, I might remind you, need a new stadium to increase revenues. Any potential investor wants to know that all the additional seats he or she will be ploughing hundreds of millions into will sell out regardless of the on-pitch ups and downs. Protests and boycotts don't exactly help now do they?

murpho999

Mr Alan wrote: »

Wat would you advise? A strongly worded letter?

Well if it was signed by thousands of fans as a large petition it would be better than mobs.

Also must admit that the movement by Utd fans, whole stadium waving Green & Yellow scarves, is much more dignified, organised and sends a much more powerful message than a baying mob outside the ground.

Those guys burning flags are just yobs and are doing the club no favours at all.

The Muppet

Dub13 wrote: »

Its not something I would do myself,all I am saying is I understand why it was done.

I fully understand the feelings tonight I just think the protest should be very focused.

Dub13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Of course it might. Those fans are the clubs source of income, their actions in hard times make the revenues streams seem more volatile. That increases the levels of risk surrounding the entire investment and thus would reflect on the overall valuation of the company.

Liverpool, I might remind you, need a new stadium to increase revenues. Any potential investor wants to know that all the additional seats he or she will be ploughing hundreds of millions into will sell out regardless of the on-pitch ups and downs. Protests and boycotts don't exactly help now do they?

If you are talking about Luton Town then yes a few hundred fans having a protest my put of potential investors,but not at a world wide supported club like Liverpool.

We (the SOS) have talked about boycotts of games and we decided not to do it as ever if you got 40,000 people to boycott a game there would be another 40,000 ready and willing to step in.

Le King

Burning of the flag will do them no favours at all. That's mob stuff.

In fact it would give Gillette and Hicks further reason to ignore the Liverpool.

Why would they put a pence into the club now? This makes it easier for them when stuff like this happens.

Get a dignified protest going.

davyjose

Mr Alan wrote: »

Wat would you advise? A strongly worded letter?

You could use that excuse to justify anything - riots, G&H being dragged from their homes and beaten. A strongly worded letter is probably better than giving the fans a sh!tty reputation by burning flags.

All anyone thinks when they see that is "scumbags". Don't blame you guys for being upset, but completely throwing your toys out of the pram and having a "anything goes" attitude, is not the way to deal with it.

Ush1

Just to try wrap up the flag thing. It's a mute issue, their dispute is with 2 men, burning a flag of a nation insults 250 million.

It's like burning a "Men" toilet symbol because they happen to be both men. Don't be lumped in with the anybody but France mentality because 1 Frenchman did something a bunch of Irish people didn't like.

I know, I know it's symbollic but that's the problem, the US are a reactionary people and won't appreciate it no matter what the circumstances. Just a bad image...

Iago

so a new chairman comes in and within a few months decides "a fresh start is needed" and Benetiz must go along with £6m of the already depleted warchest.


and he's a Chelsea season ticket holder. Job done imo.

The Muppet

Dub13 wrote: »

If you are talking about Luton Town then yes a few hundred fans having a protest my put of potential investors,but not at a world wide supported club like Liverpool.

We (the SOS) have talked about boycotts of games and we decided not to do it as ever if you got 40,000 people to boycott a game there would be another 40,000 ready and willing to step in.

Have SOS considered advising fans to buy and wear Norwich merchandise as a protest, I'm told it's a highly successful form of protest.
.;)

davyjose

davyjose wrote: »

Has anyone noticed the Green and gold campaign is Love United, Hate glazer. No mention of the USA there, because we aren't trying to look like thugs, we just want our owners out.

Different situation in fairness.

I'd imagine if Fergie was treated like a piece of shíte or Rooney flogged there might be serious unrest.

The Muppet

The Muppet wrote: »

Have SOS considered advising fans to buy and wear Norwich merchandise as a protest, I'm told it's a highly sucessfull form of protest.
.;)

Successful ?

Mr Alan

Iago wrote: »

so a new chairman comes in and within a few months decides "a fresh start is needed" and Benetiz must go along with £6m of the already depleted warchest.


and he's a Chelsea season ticket holder. Job done imo.

Chelsea appear to have leapfrogged others to be favourites to sign Torres also.

Dub13

Osu wrote: »

In fact it would give Gillette and Hicks further reason to ignore the Liverpool.

Why would they put a pence into the club now? This makes it easier for them when stuff like this happens.

They have not put 1 dime into the club since they came,they are not going to start now.

Ush1 wrote: »

I know, I know it's symbollic but that's the problem, the US are a reactionary people and won't appreciate it no matter what the circumstances. Just a bad image...

This is not directed at you more at your point.Who gives a flying fcuk what people in the US think of us as a group of fans.

The Muppet wrote: »

Have SOS considered advising fans to buy and wear Norwich merchandise as a protest, I'm told it's a highly sucessfull form of protest.
.;)

No,its a bit cheesy for us....;)

Mr Alan

rarnes1 wrote: »

Different situation in fairness.

I'd imagine if Fergie was treated like a piece of shíte or Rooney flogged there might be serious unrest.

Also worth noting that United had their own feisty protest last day of the season

LuckyLloyd

They wouldn't think twice about burning flags and being unruly at a protest in Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, etc, etc... Just saying.

Columbia

I wonder if those people burning the flag have a brain cell bewteen them.

Firstly, either burning the flag is a highly objectionable and offensive act, or it isn't. If it isn't, then there's no point in doing it, because it's not going to "shock" H&G out of the club. If it is, then it's a very dangerous act that will alienate a nation of people, all for the sake of "sending a message"

Secondly, that "message", if it is made, isn't going to make any positive difference. H&G are not going to say "OMG! They're burning the flag, let's make a loss and sell to a decent owner who can save the club". They're going to be extremely antagonised and be far more likely to harm and strip the club for their own benefit.


Honestly, as an Everton fan I've been reasonable about this all day, haven't taken the p!ss out of any Liverpool fan I know, either online or in person, but this is one of the stupidest acts I've ever seen committed by the "fans" of any club, and they, and the people defending them, need to get a grip on reality. There is literally no motive behind it, is is simply, as someone said, a mob mentality, and from having studied psychology I can tell you that is an extremely dangerous thing.

Yakult

Hmm, kinda happy, kinda sad. Whilst we were looking stale last season I think he shouldnt have left (or pushed out). But I guess a new breath of fresh air might help our cause. if not, we're fcuked

steelcityblues

Anyone looking in at RAWK forum tonight?

Seriously, many OTT pro-Rafa supporters over there. Be grateful for this forum!

The ring of fire, the ring of fire

Le King

Mr Alan wrote: »

Also worth noting that United had their own feisty protest last day of the season

Ah come on now. Nobody is or should be scoring points here for Utd v Liverpool.

I don't agree with the manner in which the protest was carried out. However, at your wits end, it tends to bring out the worst in a lot of passionate people.

I can understand what is happening. I just don't agree with it.

Mr Alan

if the flag burning thing is photographed in a single publication online or in papers, its all good imo.

super_furry

No-one remebers the Manchester Education Committee invading the pitch at a reserve game and trying (but failing) to set an American flag on fire?

RasTa

Right my last post and I'm dissapointed to see him go.

Ush1

Dub13 wrote: »

This is not directed at you more at your point.Who gives a flying fcuk what people in the US think of us as a group of fans.

One part of my point. Doesn't make that particular group of fans look good to most on the outside, Americans or not.

wobblyknees

davyjose wrote: »

Has anyone noticed the Green and gold campaign is Love United, Hate glazer. No mention of the USA there, because we aren't trying to look like thugs, we just want our owners out.

The green and gold campain is long since a joke. Just have a look at the day trippers/corporates in the expensive seats wearing them over their replicas on a weekly basis.

Le King

wobblyknees wrote: »

The green and gold campain is long since a joke. Just have a look at the day trippers/corporates in the expensive seats wearing them over their replicas on a weekly basis.

Faceplam at attempt to drag this to a Liverpool v United debate. Seriously...

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

No-one remebers the Manchester Education Committee invading the pitch at a reserve game and trying (but failing) to set an American flag on fire?

Tell that to "our club wouldnt do scumbag things like that"

As was said a few times over the last few weeks -Every club has their idiots.