Rachel Corrie, Irish ship on Collision Course with Israeli Navy Near Gaza

My name is URL

strobe wrote: »

I'm not commenting on the thread but I really need a shower after watching that video.........I really really hope it is revealed as some kind of sick 4chan style parody...

Nope, recorded by the IDF after the initial incident.. and released 'accidentally'

The song they based it on is the one used for raising awareness in Haiti a few months ago.. truly sickening for them to even contemplate making it, regardless of whatever intention they had

moonpurple

Nick Dolan wrote: »

I dont think it is. The point im always trying to put out is that people are portraying this as Israel being an Evil Empire crushing the palestinians on a nasty whim when the reason for the blocade is Hamas Activity, caused by Isreali actions caused by hamas actions, and so on.

nick...israel is slowly killing the population on the gaza strip...that is their intention and it is underway..israel kills arabs because israeli children are more important than arab children, call it evil call it pancakes call it what you want...for some time now israel has surpassed the dangerous outlook of the german nazi faction of 1942...this is a thing that happens at different times around the world unless other people intervene...it happens when one group regards another group as lesser, (rwanda, armenia, irish famine, dachau, american indians) ireland historically knows the dangers of living close to a powerful neighbour who has a big army...israel has powerful lobby groups in washington and nukes, europe has to pressurise israel

read all about it

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/robert-fisk-the-world-must-see-through-israels-lies-2208898.html

Ciaran500

My name is URL wrote: »

Nope, recorded by the IDF after the initial incident.. and released 'accidentally'

It was created by these guys: http://www.latma.co.il/

The IDF only linked to it.

rugbyman

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

THE BLOCKADE IS ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW. Palestinians can vote for whoever they want to vote for. This is called democracy. What sort of message was sent to Palestinians when they voted for Hamas.

Good Morning CJ,
In blocks you refer to the blockade being illegal;
If the is such a law, then one assumes there is an enforcing agency, and that it will be dealt with.
if ,again there is such a law and no enforcing agency, then it seems a little pointless having the law.

regards, Rugbyman

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

....... 'crusties' who feel it's their duty to support every flyblown and dried out cause around the globe.

.........

...still haven't changed that record, have we....

kaki

And despite the fact that the people onboard the Rachel Corrie offered no resistance (according to the IDF themselves) and that the takeover was a peaceful one, it seems that an Indonesian journalist who was on board ended up being shot anyway.

EDIT: mistranslation, the journalist was injured on the original flotilla, and is only being deported today due to his injuries.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1061421/1/.html

ALLENBY BRIDGE - Israel deported to Jordan on Sunday seven of those who were on board the Rachel Corrie aid ship which tried to run the Israeli blockade of Gaza, an AFP correspondent at the border said.

A Cuban and six Malaysians, including member of parliament Mohd Nizar Zakaria, two TV3 television journalists and three staff of the Perdana Global Peace organisation, crossed the Allenby Bridge into the kingdom and were received by Jordanian officials.

Eleven others detained on board the aid ship by Israeli troops were due to fly out of Ben Gurion international airport near Tel Aviv.

Israeli forces intercepted and seized control of the Rachel Corrie on Saturday as it tried to reach the Gaza Strip, without use of force like that on Monday when nine people were killed as commandos stormed an aid flotilla.

Israel deported an Indonesian journalist on Sunday who had been among the passengers wounded in the interception of that flotilla.

Surya Fachrizal, 28, "was shot in the upper right chest," an Indonesian embassy official said, adding that the journalist was to be admitted to hospital in the Jordanian capital Amman before being flown home.

The Irish-owned 1,200-tonne Rachel Corrie was escorted into the southern Israeli port of Ashdod, and the activists and crew taken to Holon immigration centre near Tel Aviv for questioning before being deported.

Our man in Havana

So who is picking up the tab to fly these people to Dublin?

galwayrush

Haddockman wrote: »

So who is picking up the tab to fly these people to Dublin?

Hamas should, a small price to pay for the worldwide exposure thay got .

Catsmokinpot

rugbyman wrote: »

Good Morning CJ,
In blocks you refer to the blockade being illegal;
If the is such a law, then one assumes there is an enforcing agency, and that it will be dealt with.
if ,again there is such a law and no enforcing agency, then it seems a little pointless having the law.

regards, Rugbyman

Nobody will do a thing about this or seemingly anything that israel does, they have ignored over 50 UN resolutions and nobody gives a flying monkey sh1t

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Haddockman wrote: »

So who is picking up the tab to fly these people to Dublin?

Israel are, they're the ones who are deporting them.

Nodin

galwayrush wrote: »

Hamas should, a small price to pay for the worldwide exposure thay got .

....Hamas were on dry land the whole time. I think you'll find somebody else was responsible for this fiasco.

listermint

kaki wrote: »

And despite the fact that the people onboard the Rachel Corrie offered no resistance (according to the IDF themselves) and that the takeover was a peaceful one, it seems that an Indonesian journalist who was on board ended up being shot anyway.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1061421/1/.html

re-read that, i think he was referring to the indonesian being injured in the original flotilla and only now being deported after treatment.

Noreen1

kaki wrote: »

And despite the fact that the people onboard the Rachel Corrie offered no resistance (according to the IDF themselves) and that the takeover was a peaceful one, it seems that an Indonesian journalist who was on board ended up being shot anyway.

Israeli forces intercepted and seized control of the Rachel Corrie  on Saturday as it tried to reach the Gaza Strip, without use of force  like that on Monday when nine people were killed as commandos stormed an  aid flotilla. 
 
Israel deported an Indonesian journalist on Sunday who had been among  the passengers wounded in the interception of that flotilla.

In fairness, I interpreted that as meaning that the Indonesian journalist was wounded in the attack on the flotilla last Monday? Presumably one of those injured on the Mari Marmara?

Noreen

You beat me to it!

kaki

listermint wrote: »

re-read that, i think he was referring to the indonesian being injured in the original flotilla and only now being deported after treatment.

I think you might be right, I first read it on La Repubblica, in Italian, I think their translation was slightly off. Yep, from reading a few other versions of the article in English, seems that Surya Fachrizal was part of the original flotilla, and is only being deported now due to injury.

Yeah, I won't post the whole article in Italian here, but the headline was "Sulla Rachel Corrie ferito un giornalista Indonesiano, ventottenne, è stato raggiunto da un colpo d'arma da fuoco al torace. Le sue condizioni non sono gravi. Espulsi sette dei 19 attivisti della nave irlandese"

- "On the Rachel Corrie, a 20 year old Indonesian journalist has been injured, hit by a shot to the thorax. His condition isn't considered life-threatening. 7 of the 19 activists on the Irish boat have been deported".

I think La Repubblica mistranslated the original newspiece a wee bit.

Sorry, I was fairly incensed and I couldn't understand why it wasn't been reported in the Irish/UK media.

My name is URL

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

Nobody will do a thing about this or seemingly anything that israel does, they have ignored over 50 UN resolutions and nobody gives a flying monkey sh1t

I wouldn't be too sure that nothing will be done. Ban Ki Moon is now also pressing for an international investigation into what happened

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1284409/UN-Secretary-General-presses-Israel-international-probe-deadly-raid-Gaza-ship-activists-sent-home.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

If the public pressure on the UN is maintained they'll have no choice but to force Israel to comply

Sheeps

nice daily mail link there

dlofnep

Sheeps wrote: »

nice daily mail link there

Here's another 400+ articles confirming the same thing: http://news.google.ie/news/more?q=ban+ki+moon&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=nli&resnum=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dUJAfoNZBDUOUMMnKHkZZk1kGFxkM&ei=f5sLTL6XA9GA_QbUp6HdDw&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&cd=1&resnum=2&ved=0CCgQqgIoADAB

Pick whichever floats your political persuasion.

Run_to_da_hills

Madeleine Fat Barium wrote: »

Israel are, they're the ones who are deporting them.

Not much of a tab when they dump them at the Allenby Bridge on the Jordanian border.

I am sure there are plenty out there that would use the PR to cover their flights.

Turkish Airlines offered free passage and hotels to many of the British that were deported to Istanbul.

What would be interesting would be to know the faith of the ships illegally confiscated in international waters. Who will foot the tab for docking fees, etc. or more importantly will they be repossessed by this rogue government.

Offy

My name is URL wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure that nothing will be done. Ban Ki Moon is now also pressing for an international investigation into what happened

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1284409/UN-Secretary-General-presses-Israel-international-probe-deadly-raid-Gaza-ship-activists-sent-home.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

If the public pressure on the UN is maintained they'll have no choice but to force Israel to comply

What will happen if America veto any action the UN proposes?

My name is URL

Offy wrote: »

What will happen if America veto any action the UN proposes?

It'll go down in a long list of vetos by the US in relation to Israel - http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

It looks like Israel have already rejected the proposal of an international inquiry anyway - http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-rejects-un-proposal-for-joint-u-s-israel-turkey-probe-1.294489

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

There's many here that I disagree with on the whole issue here, but its an honourable difference of views or of principles. It would seem that theres two words in the last sentence there you wouldn't be over familiar with.

Nice, resorting to underhand personal remarks I see.:rolleyes: Really clever.

My name is URL wrote: »

If the public pressure on the UN is maintained they'll have no choice but to force Israel to comply

I don't think public pressure is going to be needed. There will be plenty of pressure coming at a national level from Turkey etc. Irish public pressure would be best directed at our own government first to give the Israeli ambassador his marching orders.

Offy

My name is URL wrote: »

It'll go down in a long list of vetos by the US in relation to Israel - http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

It looks like Israel have already rejected the proposal of an international inquiry anyway - http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-rejects-un-proposal-for-joint-u-s-israel-turkey-probe-1.294489

I guess its fair to say America are a large part of the problem so.

FlutterinBantam

Why is it fair to say that?

Sheeps

cause obama is bolshevik nazi scum

Ideo

Sheeps wrote: »

cause obama is bolshevik nazi scum

Yes of course, how could I have overlooked Obama's Bolshevik/Nazi past.

Seriously, will somebody ban this fucking muppet!

Sheeps

Ideo wrote: »

Yes of course, how could I have overlooked Obama's Bolshevik/Nazi past.

Seriously, will somebody ban this fucking muppet!

Why do you take random people on the internet so seriously?

Offy

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Why is it fair to say that?

As America ALWAYS veto any UN peace keeping action Israel can do whatever they like and know there will be nothing the UN can do about it. America seems to be their get out of jail free card. My only worry would be how far Israel will go before China of some other super power steps in. Would Israel kill Chinese aid workers? Would that be enough for the rest of the world to say enough is enough? Would Israel be arrogant enough to step up to the plate with China? Lets face it after the Chinese shot down the Americans spy plane a few years ago it became very clear that America didnt have the guts to take them on. If Iran shot down an American spy plane Bush would have the troops in within days in my opinion. Is Israel bold enough to do that and if they do would there be consequences? If there is then Israels get out of jail free card wont get them out of jail!

Killer Pigeon

Offy wrote: »

As America ALWAYS veto any UN peace keeping action Israel can do whatever they like and know there will be nothing the UN can do about it. America seems to be their get out of jail free card. My only worry would be how far Israel will go before China of some other super power steps in. Would Israel kill Chinese aid workers? Would that be enough for the rest of the world to say enough is enough? Would Israel be arrogant enough to step up to the plate with China? Lets face it after the Chinese shot down the Americans spy plane a few years ago it became very clear that America didnt have the guts to take them on. If Iran shot down an American spy plane Bush would have the troops in within days in my opinion. Is Israel bold enough to do that and if they do would there be consequences? If there is then Israels get out of jail free card wont get them out of jail!

Well it would be kinda hypocritical if China started going around trying to support Gaza and the sending of humanitarian aid. I mean look at Tibet. I don't think that China would put themselves in the firing line given there own track record.

Offy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well it would be kinda hypocritical if China started going around trying to support Gaza and the sending of humanitarian aid. I mean look at Tibet. I don't think that China would put themselves in the firing line given there own track record.

Im not suggesting China would support Gaza. Im wondering if Chinese aid workers (not aid workers representing China) were killed by the Israeli army in international waters would it cause a reaction from China and if Israel would be arrogant enough to murder Chinese aid workers as America wouldnt back them up if they did. Im wondering if America was removed from stopping the UN taking action would Israel have killed those aid workers?

Moomoo1

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055932570&highlight=rachel+corrie

Moomoo1

are israelis claiming there were weapons on the ships? What evidence did they provide of that?

Offy

Moomoo1 wrote: »

are israelis claiming there were weapons on the ships? What evidence did they provide of that?

Does anyone care what Israel are claiming? Who cared what Hitler claimed?

Moomoo1

Offy wrote: »

Does anyone care what Israel are claiming? Who cared what Hitler claimed?

to combat propaganda you need to know what this propaganda is saying, surely?

Offy

Moomoo1 wrote: »

to combat propaganda you need to know what this propaganda is saying, surely?

Israel kills loads of people. That means I dont like Israel. I dont care what Israel say. I have talked to people from that region online, from both sides. Thats all I need to know, what the people living there tell me. I make up my own mind from there. I dont watch tv, I dont read newspapers, I dont listen to the radio. I use the internet. Doesnt make any difference what governments say be it Israels government, Irelands government, or any other government. Government members dont often get killed by solders. Id sooner get information from the locals, its a bit more real. Israel kills loads of people, terrorists, civilians, aid workers, they dont really care who they kill. History proves that. What does propaganda have to do with it? Call a rose a bulldozer if you like, its still a rose.

Moomoo1

but that's you, the general person has no access to such info. Propaganda is very very powerful...

as you see in my link, in the Russian-speaking internet Israeli propaganda is intense...

Offy

Moomoo1 wrote: »

you are wrong. Propaganda is very very powerful...

as you see in my link, in the Russian-speaking internet Israeli propaganda is intense...

Isreal cant BS their way out of what they are doing for years now. Its like the war America started because of all the weapons of mass destruction Sadam had. They wanted him out so they killed him and brought the country to ruins in doing so. Gaza is on Israels list so they will do what they want and nobody will do anything to stop it but talk. Unless someone else wants what Gaza has its game over for Gaza. Propaganda is for the sheep, the easily led, the Joe Duffy fans. America and Israel have been pounding little countries for generations now, they are still building a 'free world' or in other words an empire. Before that it was Holland, Spain, France, Germany, yada yada yada. History. Present. Future.

Manic Moran

Are you saying academics are redundant?

Might depend on what (s)he's an academic in, if his jaunt on Rachel Corrie is going to further his knowledge on that subject, or if the jaunt will further his abilities to teach whatever it is he's an academic in.

If the answer to all is 'no', then I would submit his/her being an academic is irrelevant to the case at hand.

NTM

Pdfile

I know the Israeli attack on an un-armed ship was pretty stupid But why are we even involved ?

ive yet to see any evidence of either side helping us when we wanted our land so why should we help them ( even under the heading of " humanitarian aid " )

honestly, israel has nukes.


Bomb the f***** strip and get over yourselfs you greedy buggers.


Make it No mans lad Aka carlow.

there-for nobody can complain.

problem solved.

FlutterinBantam

Offy wrote: »

Isreal cant BS their way out of what they are doing for years now. Its like the war America started because of all the weapons of mass destruction Sadam had. They wanted him out so they killed him and brought the country to ruins in doing so. Gaza is on Israels list so they will do what they want and nobody will do anything to stop it but talk. Unless someone else wants what Gaza has its game over for Gaza. Propaganda is for the sheep, the easily led, the Joe Duffy fans. America and Israel have been pounding little countries for generations now, they are still building a 'free world' or in other words an empire. Before that it was Holland, Spain, France, Germany, yada yada yada. History. Present. Future.

Quite an amount of generality there comrade.

Seems to me you could be tuned into the Dufficer yourself of an afternoon, as you seem to me anyway to be in the category you so dismissively describe.

FlutterinBantam

Nodin wrote: »

...still haven't changed that record, have we....

Neither has this guy it would appear.

Surely this guy is not in the pay of the public purse full time as he conducts this anti US crusade.

http://www.freewebs.com/fintanlane/fintanlane-interview.shtml

Offy

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Quite an amount of generality there comrade.

Seems to me you could be tuned into the Dufficer yourself of an afternoon, as you seem to me anyway to be in the category you so dismissively describe.

Whether you like it or not some of us Irish are anti-war. It doesnt really matter who is starting the wars we will dislike them. Im not going to bother explaining why I dislike wars, personally I thing its self explanatory. If that makes us anti-anyone then that anyone is a war monger. Id like to say Im sorry if that offends you but to be honest Im not sorry at all. I am insulted at been called a 'Dufficer', could you possibly stick to words in the English language please? Perhaps you did mean to insult me? Perhaps that word was a compliment? As to connotations of me been communist, Im not so the 'comrade' comment I can only assume is your attempts to troll. This also is unappreciated.

PS I have one infraction after ten years of membership. That was received after I insulted you and one other member in the political forum. Are you stalking me?

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Why is it fair to say that?

...because of US use of its veto to block sanctions against Israels occupation and colonisation of the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem etc.

Offy

Nodin wrote: »

...because of US use of its veto to block sanctions against Israels occupation and colonisation of the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem etc.

Well said.
+1

Run_to_da_hills

4 palistinian fishermen / scuba divers slaughtered off the coast of Gaza.

Since when has scuba diving become a crime?

I bet that there was no questions asked, they just shot to kill as uaual.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=129335&sectionid=351020202

Moomoo1

Offy wrote: »

Isreal cant BS their way out of what they are doing for years now. Its like the war America started because of all the weapons of mass destruction Sadam had. They wanted him out so they killed him and brought the country to ruins in doing so. Gaza is on Israels list so they will do what they want and nobody will do anything to stop it but talk. Unless someone else wants what Gaza has its game over for Gaza. Propaganda is for the sheep, the easily led, the Joe Duffy fans. America and Israel have been pounding little countries for generations now, they are still building a 'free world' or in other words an empire. Before that it was Holland, Spain, France, Germany, yada yada yada. History. Present. Future.

I know all that. But a key problem for people is getting hold of facts. Massive propaganda departments are very good at churning out their own facts for the easily led, but it takes a lot more time and research for us to counter those facts.

dvpower

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

4 palistinian fishermen / scuba divers slaughtered off the coast of Gaza.

Since when has scuba diving become a crime?

I bet that there was no questions asked, they just shot to kill as uaual.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=129335&sectionid=351020202

But they were wearing diving suits. Clearly they had to die.:(

The Israeli army confirmed the attack, claiming the men came under Israeli fire when they were spotted wearing diving suits

.

Offy

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I know all that. But a key problem for people is getting hold of facts. Massive propaganda departments are very good at churning out their own facts for the easily led, but it takes a lot more time and research for us to counter those facts.

+1
Well said.

FlutterinBantam

Offy wrote: »

Whether you like it or not some of us Irish are anti-war. It doesnt really matter who is starting the wars we will dislike them. Im not going to bother explaining why I dislike wars, personally I thing its self explanatory. If that makes us anti-anyone then that anyone is a war monger. Id like to say Im sorry if that offends you but to be honest Im not sorry at all. I am insulted at been called a 'Dufficer', could you possibly stick to words in the English language please? Perhaps you did mean to insult me? Perhaps that word was a compliment? As to connotations of me been communist, Im not so the 'comrade' comment I can only assume is your attempts to troll. This also is unappreciated.

PS I have one infraction after ten years of membership. That was received after I insulted you and one other member in the political forum. Are you stalking me?

I'm neither a troll or a stalker, just an ordinary Joe Soap who is a little tired of all the generalities and bulldust being thrown around here.

While I may have a little more than one infraction, it is never my intention to insult people.
Apologies if I dragged the thread a tad off topic.

youcrazyjesus!

Manic Moran wrote: »

Might depend on what (s)he's an academic in, if his jaunt on Rachel Corrie is going to further his knowledge on that subject, or if the jaunt will further his abilities to teach whatever it is he's an academic in.

If the answer to all is 'no', then I would submit his/her being an academic is irrelevant to the case at hand.

NTM

Include my username in quotes from now on so I can see you're replying to me. That poster was saying academics are "very productive people" so I asked the question, it had nothing to do with whether the excursion on the flotilla had anything to do with their studies so your point is irrelevant.

youcrazyjesus!

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'm neither a troll or a stalker, just an ordinary Joe Soap who is a little tired of all the generalities and bulldust being thrown around here.

You're tired of generalities? Give me a break. You generalise by far the most out of every poster on this forum.