2010 Dublin Marathon- Sub 3 mentored thread

ecoli · 19-06-2010 12:40am

Okay let it begin!

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10|40|
smmoore79| 3.10||
Speedy44|3:26|47|On the way:)
misty floyd|3:00|32.3|

This is not a locked thread or members only people are able to come and go the dont even have to follow the plan to contribute this is more about people with a common goal coming together to share in the highs and the lows in order to help each other to get to the finish line (hopefully in 2.XX.XX)

So here is the first week
Week 1
Monday Rest
Tuesday8 miles easy
Wednesday 6 miles steady + 4 x 200m strides
Thursday8 miles easy
Friday 4 miles easy
Saturday 7 miles easy
Sunday 10 miles easy (hilly course if possible)

Total weekly mileage: 43

For the purpose of the plan i have assigned monday as the day of rest as it will follow the LSR. The reason Sunday has been set aside for the LSR is just with people working the weekend is the most suitable time for most. This schedule can be changed around to suit peoples lives

I would also encourage people to supplement these runs with 2-3 miles at recovery pace in mornings 3-4 times a week and also optionally on the rest days (or evenings depending on when they run their main scheduled days training) This is not compulsory and the reasons for not putting it on the schedule is i know peoples commitments in other aspects of their lives makes this hard to do.

Regarding paces. I dont like giving exact figures for this my main advice would be to use common sense. here are some rough guidelines but not to be taken as gospel

Recovery run :1 min to 1 min 30 slower than MP
Easy Run: 30 secs to 50 secs slower than MP
Steady Run: 15 - 30 sec slower than MP

Again use the old noggin here most of you are experienced enough to know what kinda paces to be hitting

Regarding strides the should be roughly 5k pace with full walk recovery. You should not feel tired with these.

:)Best of luck to everyone:):)

ecoli · 19-06-2010 1:45pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|||

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

Updated list

ELFOYZER · 21-06-2010 2:57pm

e-coli,

I'm not a regular 'boardsie' but I've just found this sub-3 mentoring thread and am very keen on the idea of it.
I have been following Daniels' marathon plan but would consider switching to your mentored plan. Generally, I've found that training books are great but they lack the feedback from what I believe will be a very interesting thread.

My current race PB's are a little slow for a sub-3 marathon, but I believe I will be close on the day and will give it socks in training.:eek:

10k - 41:34 (Phoenix Park)- Will break 40' this summer
Half Mar - 1:34:00 (Kildare)- ran this 6 days after 10k pb, could run faster - ran with 1:30 pacers for 12k
Marathon - 3:29:00 (DCM 2008)*
(*Ran 3:43 in DCM2009, on very little marathon specific training)

Is it ok if I hop on with you guys?

Cheers,

elf

ecoli · 21-06-2010 6:34pm

ELFOYZER wrote: »

e-coli,

I'm not a regular 'boardsie' but I've just found this sub-3 mentoring thread and am very keen on the idea of it.
I have been following Daniels' marathon plan but would consider switching to your mentored plan. Generally, I've found that training books are great but they lack the feedback from what I believe will be a very interesting thread.

My current race PB's are a little slow for a sub-3 marathon, but I believe I will be close on the day and will give it socks in training.:eek:

10k - 41:34 (Phoenix Park)- Will break 40' this summer
Half Mar - 1:34:00 (Kildare)- ran this 6 days after 10k pb, could run faster - ran with 1:30 pacers for 12k
Marathon - 3:29:00 (DCM 2008)*
(*Ran 3:43 in DCM2009, on very little marathon specific training)

Is it ok if I hop on with you guys?

Cheers,

elf

The more the merrier for anyone who wants to joining no need to ask just throw your name down on the table and make yourself known to the others. Regarding the schedule even for people who feel they might be a bit off the 3 hr pace the schedule can be used just small adjustments to paces on the sessions which if people have any questions about just ask.
Welcome on board and the best of luck with the training

ecoli · 21-06-2010 10:58pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|||

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

Updated list

cunavalos · 21-06-2010 11:02pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|||

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Reaganomical · 22-06-2010 11:04am

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|||

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Gonna take the plunge - first marathon but something to aim for over the next four months. Fair play to Ecoli for starting the thread.

hunnymonster · 22-06-2010 11:10am

I'm not ready to put my name on a list as Dublin is too soon for me to hit the dizzying speeds of sub-3 but I'm going to follow this thread carefully with the hope of implementing the training and advice over the winter. Another vote of thanks from me to Ecoli for taking the time out to look after us.

donothoponpop · 22-06-2010 2:37pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Thrilled to get underway. Started off a little fast, after a few days rest, found it hot, and tough enough at the end, probably went a bit too fast for an "easy" run.

ecoli · 22-06-2010 8:21pm

donothoponpop wrote: »

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Thrilled to get underway. Started off a little fast, after a few days rest, found it hot, and tough enough at the end, probably went a bit too fast for an "easy" run.

This is okay in the early stages as there is room for this. The fact that there are so many easy low intensity runs means that the body has sufficient time to recover. Take this as your steady day if it was more the paces if that you would have used in that training. The idea at this early stage is to develop the aerobic base to be able to cope with the later sessions without over stressing the body to the point where it breaks down and is counter productive

kaymin · 22-06-2010 9:06pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides|16|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Am going by feel on my runs at the moment as I wrecked my Garmin - will be getting a new one shortly. Probably did the runs too fast. Started Monday as I'll miss a days training later in the week.

ecoli · 22-06-2010 9:10pm

kaymin wrote: »

Am going by feel on my runs at the moment as I wrecked my Garmin - will be getting a new one shortly. Probably did the runs too fast. Started Monday as I'll miss a days training later in the week.

If running by feel, a good indicator is the "talk test" basically if you can hold a conversation without a strain while running at a decent pace you should be okay. Again this plan is flexible to cope with life's curveballs and can be mixed around the main thing is that your "big days" should be spaced out enough to let you body recover. Training is "stress and adaptation" in order to adapt the body must have sufficient time to recover and strengthen. Think of the basic priinciple of weight training in the fact that you dont do too much to often for maximum effect

ELFOYZER · 23-06-2010 5:21pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides|16|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

misty floyd · 23-06-2010 6:50pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides|16|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

I gotta sign out of this thread for the moment. I thought my hamstring injury, which has been at me for a good 7 weeks now had cleared up so I went to test it last night with some quicker stuff. Today its quite sore and I'm limping.

I just can't commit to a marathon right now. Will still follow the progress, best of luck with things folks. Cheers Ecoli.

kaymin · 23-06-2010 9:48pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Was a little concerned going out to train tonight as the top of my achilles tendon felt tight / tender. Lots of stretching seemed to do the job and I didn't feel it during the run. I'm expecting a few niggles given the increase in mileage involved with following this program - just need to listen to the body!

donothoponpop · 23-06-2010 10:46pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy; 8 miles easy|18| 7.5 miles very hilly 400m+ ascent, 66mins, incl 4x200 strides

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Ballycumber loop in Tinahely, very hilly offroad. Easy pace, turned it up half a gear on the long steep uphills. Strides at the end went great.
Hope you get better soon MistyFloyd.

cunavalos · 23-06-2010 11:46pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy; 8 miles easy|18| 7.5 miles very hilly 400m+ ascent, 66mins, incl 4x200 strides

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|8 miles easy; 6miles incl 4 x 200m strides|14|strides included in run

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

I think i may have misinterpreted the strides on todays run. i did them in the middle of the run with a 60 second recovery at easy pace between each set and then returned to steady pace for rest of run.

Also ecoli what is your attitude to racing during the program as there are probably 3-4 races i would normally do during the course of this program. is it possible to build these into the program. What are the other runners doing with regard to racing.

smmoore79 · 24-06-2010 12:27pm

Quick question for all sub 3 wanabee's. What surfaces would you generaly run on? All Grass, all road, all trail, a mix? Would some of you not go near road until the marathon itself? My current route takes in a few miles of raod, a few miles of grass/trail and a mile of sand. Am hoping the general mix i do will minimise injury whilst getting my body used to concrete/tarmac...

donothoponpop · 24-06-2010 12:37pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Quick question for all sub 3 wanabee's. What surfaces would you generaly run on? All Grass, all road, all trail, a mix? Would some of you not go near road until the marathon itself? My current route takes in a few miles of raod, a few miles of grass/trail and a mile of sand. Am hoping the general mix i do will minimise injury whilst getting my body used to concrete/tarmac...

Currently 40%tarmac/60%trail(grass, forest, fireroad, mountain). I think a good mix is better for less impact/repetitive stress, and will minimise injury, as you say. Will be upping the amount of road (and the flatness) as the training continues to closer to 70%/30%. This will help give a better idea of how pace is turning out- its very hard to judge when slogging up a mucky hill! I found it hard on the legs when running Rotterdam, as I wasn't used to the flatness, although Dublin is a bit hillier in that respect.

ELFOYZER · 24-06-2010 1:42pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Quick question for all sub 3 wanabee's. What surfaces would you generaly run on? All Grass, all road, all trail, a mix? Would some of you not go near road until the marathon itself? My current route takes in a few miles of raod, a few miles of grass/trail and a mile of sand. Am hoping the general mix i do will minimise injury whilst getting my body used to concrete/tarmac...

Nearly all of my running on concrete/tarmac. Even when running in the Phoenix Park I tend to stay on the road/paths. The unevenness of trails and risk of twisting an ankle puts me off!
I run in 2150's and they probably help minimise impact/stress injury. I rotate and change runners regularly which is probably no harm either.

ecoli · 24-06-2010 1:46pm

kaymin wrote: »

Was a little concerned going out to train tonight as the top of my achilles tendon felt tight / tender. Lots of stretching seemed to do the job and I didn't feel it during the run. I'm expecting a few niggles given the increase in mileage involved with following this program - just need to listen to the body!

Be sensible about the mileage the ideal scenario was to build to this mileage before the program started but if you are not able to do this then take this into account when training and cut back the mileage a bit. Rushing the mileage can lead to injury. Better to do a little, alot, than do loads at the start and being forced to have time off due to injury. One option here is to hit the bike to make up the difference. This can develop aerobic capacity while keeping the injury risk down till your body adapts with the increase in mileage and will allow you to build the running miles slower

ecoli · 24-06-2010 1:49pm

cunavalos wrote: »

I think i may have misinterpreted the strides on todays run. i did them in the middle of the run with a 60 second recovery at easy pace between each set and then returned to steady pace for rest of run.

Also ecoli what is your attitude to racing during the program as there are probably 3-4 races i would normally do during the course of this program. is it possible to build these into the program. What are the other runners doing with regard to racing.

In the plan i have the 10 mile and the half from the race series already worked into the schedule but more could be incorporated. With the training especially for the marathon i feel that the importance of racing frequently is not as important as in say middle distance racing etc. The training will be able to give you a good indication of your shape as you go along

smmoore79 · 24-06-2010 1:52pm

ELFOYZER wrote: »

Nearly all of my running on concrete/tarmac. Even when running in the Phoenix Park I tend to stay on the road/paths. The unevenness of trails and risk of twisting an ankle puts me off!
I run in 2150's and they probably help minimise impact/stress injury. I rotate and change runners regularly which is probably no harm either.

Wow, all road/concrete?! Id imagaine that would be pretty hard on the legs as opposed to trail/grass. I was under the impression that the unevenness of trail helps develop different parts of the leg muscles that repetitive road running wouldnt. Though yes there is a risk of injury if ya dont look where youre going..

smmoore79 · 24-06-2010 1:57pm

ecoli wrote: »

In the plan i have the 10 mile and the half from the race series already worked into the schedule but more could be incorporated. With the training especially for the marathon i feel that the importance of racing frequently is not as important as in say middle distance racing etc. The training will be able to give you a good indication of your shape as you go along

Hi Ecoli, I do a fair bit of BHAA runs. These vary from 5km to 10km and are on every 2 weeks or so. For marathon training do you think it wise to drop these races due to them being short and replace them with the midweek tempo run that I would otherwise have done? or drop the tempo and race midweek? As i said before they are only every 2/3 weeks so wouldnt be replacing tempo runs every week....

ELFOYZER · 24-06-2010 1:59pm

That suits me fine as I have entered the 10 mile and half in the race series.
I was thinking about running a 10k - just to hit that sub 40min goal. Don't know if this is sensible or not as my main goal is DCM. I suppose I could always give the Aware 10k a go in December. What would you recommend?

ecoli · 24-06-2010 2:17pm

ELFOYZER wrote: »

That suits me fine as I have entered the 10 mile and half in the race series.
I was thinking about running a 10k - just to hit that sub 40min goal. Don't know if this is sensible or not as my main goal is DCM. I suppose I could always give the Aware 10k a go in December. What would you recommend?

Again this is a personal thing some people feel they need a race every certain amount of time to keep them motivated. If you had one in mind you could probably swap one of the hard sessions. Again this is a mentoring thread but it is up to the people who follow it to make decisions to suit them.

ecoli · 24-06-2010 2:28pm

smmoore79 wrote: »

Hi Ecoli, I do a fair bit of BHAA runs. These vary from 5km to 10km and are on every 2 weeks or so. For marathon training do you think it wise to drop these races due to them being short and replace them with the midweek tempo run that I would otherwise have done? or drop the tempo and race midweek? As i said before they are only every 2/3 weeks so wouldnt be replacing tempo runs every week....

Some people feel the benefit from the racing again this is the decision of the athlete. This can be used as a substitute for the tempos on the week of the races. Swap them one of your hard days (probably tempo) rather than to try and fit in your training with the races as this will cause overtraining. Also if the races are incorporated into your schedule my advice would be dont feel you have to rest up to go into the races fresh these are part of your training for the overall race target rather than targets in themselves

ELFOYZER · 24-06-2010 8:35pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy; 8 miles easy|18| 7.5 miles very hilly 400m+ ascent, 66mins, incl 4x200 strides

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M);8M easy|26|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|8 miles easy; 6miles incl 4 x 200m strides|14|strides included in run

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Steady 8min/mile pace for my 8 miler

kaymin · 24-06-2010 11:52pm

ecoli wrote: »

Be sensible about the mileage the ideal scenario was to build to this mileage before the program started but if you are not able to do this then take this into account when training and cut back the mileage a bit. Rushing the mileage can lead to injury. Better to do a little, alot, than do loads at the start and being forced to have time off due to injury. One option here is to hit the bike to make up the difference. This can develop aerobic capacity while keeping the injury risk down till your body adapts with the increase in mileage and will allow you to build the running miles slower

I think my aerobic fitness is good from marathon kayak training so I intend keeping up the kayak training for a while yet until I gradually build up the running miles.

smmoore - my training is 70 - 80% grass / trails at the moment - I'll run on the roads more once I'm more confident my legs / joints can take the stresses of the high mileage.

ELFOYZER · 25-06-2010 7:01pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy; 8 miles easy|18| 7.5 miles very hilly 400m+ ascent, 66mins, incl 4x200 strides

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M);8M easy;4M easy/steadyish|30|

cunavalos|n/a|8 miles easy; 6miles incl 4 x 200m strides|14|strides included in run

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Ran the 4 mile @7:20/mile pace - bit quick, more like my steady pace but couldn't settle into easy pace today

donothoponpop · 25-06-2010 7:56pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles @7:23; 8 miles v hilly@8:00; 8 miles @8:00; 4 miles easy|30| Very hot yesterday, glad of a jog today

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M);8M easy;4M easy/steadyish|30|

cunavalos|n/a|8 miles easy; 6miles incl 4 x 200m strides|14|strides included in run

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Grabbed the only opportunity I could get yesterday, 8 miles in very hot conditions. Today was cooler, but I was happy to keep it an easy 4 miler. Will have to be careful about tomorrows session, I have 13 mile run to pace (@8:00 pace) on Sunday.

kaymin · 25-06-2010 9:59pm

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles @7:23; 8 miles v hilly@8:00; 8 miles @8:00; 4 miles easy|30| Very hot yesterday, glad of a jog today

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy; 8 miles mostly steady|32|No running yesterday (Thurs) and 12km kayak race tomorrow so I decided to go at a steady running pace today. No tightness of the achilles tendon thankfully.

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M);8M easy;4M easy/steadyish|30|

cunavalos|n/a|8 miles easy; 6miles incl 4 x 200m strides|14|strides included in run

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

ecoli · 26-06-2010 1:21pm

Okay People
first week almost done hope everyone is getting on well and people arent hating me just yet:D Here is next weeks plan. Similar to last week with a few more miles. This will be the same for another week or two to get the mileage up safely before adding specific sessions

Week 1
Monday Rest
Tuesday8 miles easy
Wednesday 6 miles steady + 6 x 100m strides
Thursday10 miles easy
Friday 4 miles recovery
Saturday 8 miles easy
Sunday 13 miles easy (hilly course if possible)

Week 1 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|||
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|||
ELFOYZER|3.29|||
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Best of luck. Again any questions you can post here or PM me. Working in IT means i rarely away from this for too long

ELFOYZER · 27-06-2010 2:34pm

Week 1 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|||
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|||
ELFOYZER|3.29|6|48|48
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Quite a jump from my '30something' miles per week routine to date. Struggled yesterday and today especially ( ran A LOT of hills in Phoenix Park this morning) but legs holding out well.
Roll on tomorrow for a well deserved rest day:)

donothoponpop · 27-06-2010 2:40pm

Week 1 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|5|44|44
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|||
ELFOYZER|3.29|6|48|48
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Missed yesterday's session, in favour of a 15 mile bike ride around the Enniscorthy Half- I paced todays 8min mile group. Legs feel good, happy with the week.

kaymin · 27-06-2010 3:50pm

Week 1 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|5|44|44
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|5|42|42
ELFOYZER|3.29|6|48|48
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Tough 10 mile this afternoon with the sun / heat. This week I've done the most miles I've ever done in one week - legs / joints feel fine.

smmoore79 · 27-06-2010 8:50pm

For some reason i cant edit or insert the table. Summary for me this week was 4 sessions and 33 miles total. Total miles since marathon program started is 66 miles (2 weeks worth of training).

cunavalos · 27-06-2010 10:58pm

Week 1 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|5|44|44
smmoore79| 3.10|4|33|66
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|5|42|42
ELFOYZER|3.29|6|48|48
cunavalos|n/a|5|37|37
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Missed one session due to football match. Hard planning a marathon training programme in the middle of the GAA season but with any luck we'll be beaten and out of the championship by the end of next month.

Reaganomical · 30-06-2010 10:13am

Week 2
Monday Rest
Tuesday8 miles easy
Wednesday 6 miles steady + 6 x 100m strides
Thursday10 miles easy
Friday 4 miles recovery
Saturday 8 miles easy
Sunday 13 miles easy (hilly course if possible)

Week 2 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|||
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|||
ELFOYZER|3.29|||
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady + 6 x100m strides|14|

Got the 6 in early this morning, lovely run along the banks of the Shannon with the pace roughly around 7'15" throughout. Back to the gym afterwards for core work, stretching, and some very easy lengths of the pool.

ELFOYZER · 30-06-2010 8:14pm

Week 2
Monday Rest
Tuesday8 miles easy
Wednesday 6 miles steady + 6 x 100m strides
Thursday10 miles easy
Friday 4 miles recovery
Saturday 8 miles easy
Sunday 13 miles easy (hilly course if possible)

Week 2 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|||
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|||
ELFOYZER|3.29|9M easy(?)~7:45/mile;6M steady~7:15/mile+6x100m str|15|
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady + 6 x100m strides|14|

Felt very fresh after Monday's rest day. Got a great 45 min core/stretching session in too.:D Want to try get more of this in during the weeks ahead.
Probably went a little too fast in both sessions so far this week, I was pushing a bit harder than last week although effort/intensity felt similar.
Methinks 10 miler tomorrow will be at a very EASY pace.

donothoponpop · 30-06-2010 9:37pm

Week 2 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|Tue 9 @ 7:50; Wed 6 @ 7:15 + 8x100m strides|16| 60
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|||
ELFOYZER|3.29|9M easy(?)~7:45/mile;6M steady~7:15/mile+6x100m str|15|
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady + 6 x100m strides|14|

Happy to rest on Mon. Tues run went well, had to keep the pace down, one of those runs you just want to keep on keeping on. Wed, 6 miles, first was slower, but sped up as the run went on, and each one faster, although the effort didn't increase. Wasn't sure if it was 6 or 8 strides, so I erred on the side of caution:)

donothoponpop · 02-07-2010 9:36am

Week 2 Summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|9 @ 7:50; 6 @ 7:15 + 8x100m strides; 10 miles@ 8:15|26| 70
smmoore79| 3.10|||
Speedy44|3:26|||
kaymin|n/a|||
ELFOYZER|3.29|9M easy(?)~7:45/mile;6M steady~7:15/mile+6x100m str|15|
cunavalos|n/a|||
Schnellimbiss |n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady + 6 x100m strides|14|

Got Thurs session done early this morning- will do 4 easy tonight.

Can I get a bit of guidance- the 10 easy were very easy- slower than I would have run easy miles at before. I read a lot about how a lot of marathoners need to run their hard sessions harder, and their easy sessions easier- certainly a lot of training logs of fast marathoners on the forum show them running easy miles at a very slow pace. I'd be interested in any comments, because this method is new to me (I'd be "no pain no gain" school previously).

smmoore79 · 02-07-2010 9:46am

donothoponpop wrote: »

Week 2 Summary

9 @ 7:50; 6 @ 7:15 + 8x100m strides; 10 miles@ 8:15|26| 70

Got Thurs session done early this morning- will do 4 easy tonight.

Can I get a bit of guidance- the 10 easy were very easy- slower than I would have run easy miles at before. I read a lot about how a lot of marathoners need to run their hard sessions harder, and their easy sessions easier- certainly a lot of training logs of fast marathoners on the forum show them running easy miles at a very slow pace. I'd be interested in any comments, because this method is new to me (I'd be "no pain no gain" school previously).

Im kinda new to this pacing thing myself so invested in PD advanced marathoning. Looking at your training, those 3 sessions look like hard sessions. That 10 miler at 8 15 pace seems a tad slow to me alright, id run that at 7 40. For me an easy session would be a recovery run of 4/5 miles at 8 minute pace. Midweek aerobic runs (runs of 8 to 10ish miles) are done at 7 40 pace and Sunday long runs are done at 7 25-30 pace. Sometimes my plan asks for some miles to be at marathon pace (6 40) and other runs at half marathon pace (6 mins). Not sure if your plan incorporates the same..

donothoponpop · 02-07-2010 10:24am

smmoore79 wrote: »

Im kinda new to this pacing thing myself so invested in PD advanced marathoning. Looking at your training, those 3 sessions look like hard sessions. That 10 miler at 8 15 pace seems a tad slow to me alright, id run that at 7 40. For me an easy session would be a recovery run of 4/5 miles at 8 minute pace. Midweek aerobic runs (runs of 8 to 10ish miles) are done at 7 40 pace and Sunday long runs are done at 7 25-30 pace. Sometimes my plan asks for some miles to be at marathon pace (6 40) and other runs at half marathon pace (6 mins). Not sure if your plan incorporates the same..

Thanks for the reply. I followed P&D 70 miles (PMP 6:50) last time round, and indeed would have run the "easy" runs about 7:30-7:40. Now I'm running them 8:00-8:15, it certainly feels "too slow", but I think the idea is to compensate by running the hard sessions hard. I know there's no one-size-fits-all plan, but a common factor in a lot of 2:40-3:00 marathoners I know is their surprisingly "slow" easy runs.

smmoore79 · 02-07-2010 10:28am

donothoponpop wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I followed P&D 70 miles (PMP 6:50) last time round, and indeed would have run the "easy" runs about 7:30-7:40. Now I'm running them 8:00-8:15, it certainly feels "too slow", but I think the idea is to compensate by running the hard sessions hard. I know there's no one-size-fits-all plan, but a common factor in a lot of 2:40-3:00 marathoners I know is their surprisingly "slow" easy runs.

Yeah, Its weird for me too to be running 8 minute miles. Though, it takes just as much discipline to remain steady at a 'slow' pace. But they're on the plans for a reason i suppose, apparently it aids with getting rid of the lactic acid from hard runs.

ecoli · 02-07-2010 10:46am

Because it is early in the plan you will find that you need the slower runs to recover from the harder sessions which will soon be added. You will also find that as the plan goes on your general fitness will mean that these paces actually drop and your easy paces will gradually become faster.

To answer the other question there are a good bit of MP and HMP based sessions and as such these will be the sessions for stressing the body and the easier miles will allow the body to recover some what and adapt

ELFOYZER · 02-07-2010 1:24pm

I've been struggling with what should be 'Easy' and 'STEADY' pace.
I calculated my easy and steady paces from the guide by working back from 6:50/mile,

Recovery run :1 min to 1 min 30 slower than MP = 7:50 - 8:20
Easy Run: 30 secs to 50 secs slower than MP = 7:20 - 7:40
Steady Run: 15 - 30 sec slower than MP = 7:05 - 7:20
So far my pace as been as follows,
EASY PACE = 7:45 to 8:00/ mile (Percieved Effort = 6/10)
STEADY PACE= 7:15 - 7:20/mile (Percieved Effort = 7to8/10)

I'm running a bit slower than what was outlined. I seem to be running Easy at Recovery pace and am just bordering on the Steady paced runs.

I know that within the remaining 16 weeks or so my paces will drop. That said, I'm hoping that I'll improve enough over that period once I stay loose and injury free.
McMillan predictor suggests that I am on for a 3:10 to 3:15 marathon, depending what result I put in. But I'm wondering is it possible to improve to sub 3 over an 18 week period???

Any comments or suggestions, please?

smmoore79 · 02-07-2010 1:45pm

ELFOYZER wrote: »

I've been struggling with what should be 'Easy' and 'STEADY' pace.
I calculated my easy and steady paces from the guide by working back from 6:50/mile,

Recovery run :1 min to 1 min 30 slower than MP = 7:50 - 8:20
Easy Run: 30 secs to 50 secs slower than MP = 7:20 - 7:40
Steady Run: 15 - 30 sec slower than MP = 7:05 - 7:20
So far my pace as been as follows,
EASY PACE = 7:45 to 8:00/ mile (Percieved Effort = 6/10)
STEADY PACE= 7:15 - 7:20/mile (Percieved Effort = 7to8/10)

QUOTE]

Those paces seem about correct for a sub 3 marathon. And if youre doing an advanced program, then midweek runs will have some speedwork (10 x 100m or medium runs with some miles at half marathon pace). And some of your Sunday long runs will have a certain amount at marathon pace..

ecoli · 02-07-2010 1:58pm

ELFOYZER wrote: »

I've been struggling with what should be 'Easy' and 'STEADY' pace.
I calculated my easy and steady paces from the guide by working back from 6:50/mile,

Recovery run :1 min to 1 min 30 slower than MP = 7:50 - 8:20
Easy Run: 30 secs to 50 secs slower than MP = 7:20 - 7:40
Steady Run: 15 - 30 sec slower than MP = 7:05 - 7:20
So far my pace as been as follows,
EASY PACE = 7:45 to 8:00/ mile (Percieved Effort = 6/10)
STEADY PACE= 7:15 - 7:20/mile (Percieved Effort = 7to8/10)

I'm running a bit slower than what was outlined. I seem to be running Easy at Recovery pace and am just bordering on the Steady paced runs.

I know that within the remaining 16 weeks or so my paces will drop. That said, I'm hoping that I'll improve enough over that period once I stay loose and injury free.
McMillan predictor suggests that I am on for a 3:10 to 3:15 marathon, depending what result I put in. But I'm wondering is it possible to improve to sub 3 over an 18 week period???

Any comments or suggestions, please?

Again be sensible some people run there mileage a little slower than others this can be ok the main thing is effort. These are more guidelines and being there or there abouts is okay as long as your not pushing it. Just be sure to take the difference into account on your recovery runs these should not be the same pace as your easy runs so perhaps around 8.10-8.40
The easy runs are providing the strength to be able to tackle the sessions which are going to be introduced over the next two weeks. It is these sessions which will provide significant improvement. The easy miles are important to provide the strength to go injury free (hopefully) through the training plan.
Like Smoore79 said there will be sessions including Marathon pace running and half marathon paced running comming soon but jumping into these too soon would only increase the risk of injury especially with the building of mileage

tisnotover · 02-07-2010 1:58pm

ELFOYZER wrote: »

McMillan predictor suggests that I am on for a 3:10 to 3:15 marathon, depending what result I put in. But I'm wondering is it possible to improve to sub 3 over an 18 week period???

Any comments or suggestions, please?

Whats your most recent race time ? did you use this in mcmillan ? One thing I would say, is that you shouldn't have to push pace on a steady run.

You need your energy for other more demanding runs in the schedule like marathon paced miles or track-work.

do you wear a heart-rate monitor ? As this will give you an idea of wheter your pushing too hard or not on these runs...