5 reasons why it's not cool to be a gamer

pablomakaveli

Found this article on Cracked.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18571_5-reasons-its-still-not-cool-to-admit-youre-gamer.html

Found myself agreeing with a lot of what it says. The stuff with Alan Wake is ridiculous tbh and it seems they are more gamers throwing hissy fits over little things these days.

Raises a good point about the storytelling as well. A lot of games seem to go for cliches or poorly thought out stories.

Anyway what does everyone else think?

Retr0gamer

I read it ages ago and it's pretty much all true. As for the storytelling, when absolute nonsense like FFVII and MGS4 are held up as the best examples by the medium then there's something horribly wrong.

I think the new steretype of dumb asses playing CoD all day and shouting racial slurs down the mic is far worse than the old stereotype.

Gunmonkey

Yeah a lot of good points, the whole "B-movie" script thing is SOOOOO bloody true. How many games do I have to play through where the plot is "They are bad people, BOOOOOO, kill them"??

And the charity game pont is the type of stuff that makes me want to hurt lots of people who think games grow for free on mystic trees.

Vegeta

Cant disagree with a lot of that tbh

johnny_ultimate

Yup, another one of those Cracked articles that actually has relatively insightful points to make. Gaming can be such a frustrating hobby sometimes, for most of the reasons pointed out in the article. Gamers are moany bastards at the best of times - what other medium would have people analysing framerate / pixels in order to complain whether it's full HD or not, and even more importantly, who cares (I'm seriously interested in film-making, but I still couldn't care less about minor aspect ratio problems in Bioshock)? Storytelling truly is decades behind other mediums, with very very few utilising interactivity as a method of narrative progression, with even fewer having anything not worth skipping. It's immature - that stupid sex scene in GoW3 is definitely a good example. And of course letting anyone have a go of a game on Xbox Live instantly would provide a bad reputation.

It can be hard to be part of the gaming community with these constant irritants, but on the other hand, I love seeing it gradually get better. There are moments when games tell good stories, do something radically better than others, when you're playing online with a good crowd etc.... that seem to make it all worthwhile. Still, can't deny that it's one hell of an idiotic medium sometimes.

Sabre0001

It raises some valid points but it is miles off in many senses...

#5 - The Lonely Stereotype
A difficult one to shake and yes, the service to pay women to play games with you is a negative image...But men have paid women for years to do various activities with them - an "escort" is the classiest way of putting it and yet, essentially, they are paying a woman to go on a date with them, talk to them and laugh at their jokes.

There are many party games coming out - look at the popularity of the Wii system, Guitar Hero, Mario Party games, etc. Games are bringing people together...

Yes, there are idiots in the world who revert back to being 12 (albeit louder 12 year olds who resort to "show me your tits") but that is not confined to gaming alone.


#4 - The 17 Year Old
First game they use is aimed at 18s...God of War 3 - and people know what it is like, the sex minigame was in a previous outing. A game marked 18 can legally only be sold to those over 18 - like alcohol or films that are classified as over 18s. Doesn't mean that minors won't be able to get their hands on it but not the target market. Also, the film industry (that shining light responsible for "great story telling") has it's own seedy underbelly - hello the origins of the porn market.

Yes, women characters are often sexualised in games but men aren't treated much better - this came up in a thread before. Should I feel intimidated by a man with arms as big as my chest; doesn't it give female gamers something to sexualise and put on a pedastal that men must match? No. Sakura is a student and wears a schoolgirl outfit; in the same game, C.Viper is a strong business woman (and yet is conveniently ignored when this subject comes up). An article was written recently about Bayonetta (by a female journalist) and she had no problems with her portrayal. She is the strong lead role. If we were to put a "real" girl in a game what would she look like; a typical female on a night out (i.e. dolled up and sexualised), a girl in college (many of whom are dolled up and could easily go out) or do the complainers want some other extreme? Someone is always going to be pissed - characters are overly exaggerated, they have to be (same in children's cartoons - "hello Nurse!")


#3 - Storytelling
Yes, there are a lot of space shooters and random shooters. Bioshock did have a good plot (there was a twist). While we're on the subject of the film industry, how many rom-coms have there been in the last 40 years? Same plot, different actors. And only recently, Pocahontas won awards for best visual effects.....oh sorry, that was Avatar. A shooter is not the best example of storytelling ability but there are definately games out there with that trait.

Films have remained pretty consistent in how they are done and how stories are told. The games medium is ever changing - here is a text screen, now you play games with graphics and point and click, now you control the character, now you ARE the character. Much more difficult to write for games - especially when gamers will try to break things, shoot NPCs when they are talking and telling you info, etc. All of this has to be accounted for. If Steven Seagal shoots someone at the wrong time, they go back and do it again.

People may or may not be able to play Bioshock in 40 years (sometimes we don't have the means to play Retro games conveniently - Wizard of Oz has been ported to DVD with re-releases and everything). However, Pac Man is being downloaded, re-coded by fans, played, etc 30 years on. Does that set Pac Man as a pinnacle...Does it mean that the "being played after x years" is the right bar to set?

Plenty of non-mindless games out there...Sometimes you have to look for them rather than just accepting (pretty similar to the film industry).


#2 Shiny Things
That is in every facet of entertainment. Ok, counting pixels is a little extreme BUT if a company promises something and then falls short, could they be misleading other aspects. After years of PR spin, Peter Molyneux is painted as a liar because his promises fell short.


#1 - Entitlement Issues
Again, not confined to games. All entertainment sides are suffering with piracy and trying to find ways around it. Some albums have been released for free / pay what you want (Radiohead, etc) and yes, the album was pirated / customers gave themselves a massive discount. The biggest pirated games are EA titles - Spore, The Sims. Maybe people feel that EA have enough money (in a similar vein as to why it was "ok" to download Metallica albums) or maybe people don't want to be shamed by walking into a store and picking up the game (but want it now because I am aware of online stores).


Anyways, after all that - how do points 1 & 2 (i.e. what should be the highlight of the article) even make gaming uncool to the "masses". These are points that most of the population wouldn't even be aware of - "Indie games", "pixels" - "what are these?".


And after all that, there's an article of my own Sometimes people need to stop reading so much into stuff - you could paint practically anything in a negative light if you really wanted to...And in a sense, most things are depending on who you talk to. It's a game; just enjoy it...

After reading that article, I think I should go and get God of War 3

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I read it ages ago and it's pretty much all true. As for the storytelling, when absolute nonsense like FFVII and MGS4 are held up as the best examples by the medium then there's something horribly wrong.

I think the new steretype of dumb asses playing CoD all day and shouting racial slurs down the mic is far worse than the old stereotype.

Yeah, your opinion!

Oooohhhhh

Monotype

Good points Sabre0001.

Regarding the original article, they mention the "best selling xbox games". Unfortunately, best selling doesn't imply best story or even best game - just best marketing. Take modern warfare 2, for example. Development costs were less than $50 million, advertising was over $100 million. Games like this are produced with money in mind, not to immerse the gamer in a new level of creativity etc.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

Yeah, your opinion!

Oooohhhhh

Do you really think their storylines would stand up if they were in a film, literature or TV series. I'd say they would more likely be laughed at.

Sarky

I found the God of War bit to be terribly depressing. What the hell was the point of that, besides proving that the designers still look up to Duke Nukem?

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Do you really think their storylines would stand up if they were in a film, literature or TV series. I'd say they would more likely be laughed at.

MGS4 would be too all-over-the-place I reckon.

Can't agree with FF7 though- you just pick up on one or two things and allow it to ruin the overriding narrative for you.

Others don't.

johnny_ultimate

Storytelling wise, I must point out that Prince of Persia: Sands of Time is a much more mature, sensible take on the ideas presented than the recent piece of **** movie is. On basic levels like characters and making the most out of the themes and ideas presented, it's amazing how much better the 2003 game is. It's also much more imaginative visually and less profoundly stupid. It's one of the first times I've genuinely appreciated how much mature a game can be compared to the typical Hollywood blockbuster. Take into account the likes of Bioshock (with very literary themes of objectivism, ideologies and politics), Braid (which adapts the narrative to integrate with the gameplay), Alan Wake (although quite derivative of Twin Peaks, Stephen King etc.. has lots of interesting ideas) etc... and naturally there are vastly more intelligent games out there than many would give credit to.

Sarky wrote:

I found the God of War bit to be terribly depressing. What the hell was the point of that, besides proving that the designers still look up to Duke Nukem?

I know, I honestly think it's aiming for the lowest common denominator, absurd sexualisation for no real benefit. Delivery wise, it's like a particulary cringey Carry On movie. That game on the whole just seems to be excessive for the sake of it on occasion. I can kind of see where those who argue Bayonetta is sexist is coming from, but at least she is a very confident female character with the whole tone pleasingly tongue-in-cheek.

pablomakaveli

I thought the story for Heavy Rain was pretty good too. Granted some aspects of the story were'nt very original but i thought it was a nice effort, better than the usual fare.

However for every game with a good story there are about 10 with crap storylines.

For example Halo,Killzone, Gears of War are practically the same thing. Alines are threatening mankind so go shoot them. Granted with a shooter it's probably not going to be easy to write a story but they don't seem to make a huge effort either.

Greyjoy

There are some valid points in the article but the 'b-movie storytelling' reason is where his argument falls down. First off using FPS games as examples of storytelling is a real strawman argument especially since he simply describes them as 'gunning down many aliens/foreigners' - that's like critizing a football game for 'kicking a ball around over and over'. Even within those examples given in the article there are richer stories at work (well, apart from MW2 i'll give him that). The criticism of the protagonists as 'faceless' doesn't really work, there's an important reason why the main character's face is never shown - it's to immerse the player into that role which is something that movies can't achieve.

Greyfox

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I read it ages ago and it's pretty much all true. As for the storytelling, when absolute nonsense like FFVII and MGS4 are held up as the best examples by the medium then there's something horribly wrong.

The storytelling critisism is wrong. It's true the majority of games do have a rubbish storyline but the fact is theirs loads of games out their with very enjoyable stories. The author decided to ignor this fact and just pick examples of games that don't have a great story. The fact is the majority of gamers place more importance on graphics and gameplay then they do on story which is why game designers don't usually make the story the most important element of a game, but if gamers are willing to look for great stories they will find them.

MGS 4 is rubbish but the best example of our medium is the original MGS and Final Fantasy 7. I have read over 70 Fantasy books including LOR, Harry Potter and the Wheel of time series and played Final fantasy 6 and currently paying the excellent Crono Trigger on the DS and still think Final Fantasy 7 is the greatest story ever! I'll play rpg's and read books for the rest of my life but reckon that I might never find a world as immersive and unforgettable as FF7, just because you prefer other RPG's doesn't mean you can overlook the fact that theirs a lot of love out their for FF7's wonderful story. MGS1 has a superb story too with an unforgettable cast of characters, real story development and loads of great twists that make it more enjoyable then the vast majoriry of the rehashed trash that comes out of hollywood most of the time.

pablomakaveli

I think FF7s story had more originality than other FF games. Most of them have a story which is basically summed up by evil kingdom/empire wants to take over the world with our protaganist on a mission to stop them.. With FF7 they took a more modern approach with a the enmy being a global corporation as well as the planet being exploited for greed something that parallels real life and then having the brilliant villian who was Sephiroth becoming the main enemy.

That said im not denigrating the other FF games but i don't think its exactly fair to criticise FF7's story without good reason either.

r3nu4l

Well I have to say that I thought the narrative on Resistance: Fall of Man on the Playstation 3 was fantastic! Probably the best storyline I've seen in a PS3 game. It twists and turns and at the end of the game I wanted the story to continue.

Retr0gamer

Greyfox wrote: »

MGS 4 is rubbish but the best example of our medium is the original MGS and Final Fantasy 7. I have read over 70 Fantasy books including LOR, Harry Potter and the Wheel of time series and played Final fantasy 6 and currently paying the excellent Crono Trigger on the DS and still think Final Fantasy 7 is the greatest story ever! I'll play rpg's and read books for the rest of my life but reckon that I might never find a world as immersive and unforgettable as FF7, just because you prefer other RPG's doesn't mean you can overlook the fact that theirs a lot of love out their for FF7's wonderful story. MGS1 has a superb story too with an unforgettable cast of characters, real story development and loads of great twists that make it more enjoyable then the vast majoriry of the rehashed trash that comes out of hollywood most of the time.

Fantasy books? Go read read some real literature like Catcher in the Rye.

Funnily enough I was of the same opinion, and get a lot of flak over it as well. I got a bit older and wiser and now realise that FFVII's story is a flawed mess. It's a bad anime that's been rushed and not helped by a dreadful translation.

As for MGS, it's actually just a rehash of Ninja Scroll with a modern setting and plenty of homages ripped from hollywood movies, nothing too original. Now it is very enjoyable in a hollywood action sense but to say it's the pinnacle of videogame storytelling is a grave disservice to genuinely good videogame storytelling like Silent Hill 2, System Shock 2 and Super Metroid (for storytelling through interaction and enviroment).

pablomakaveli wrote: »

That said im not denigrating the other FF games but i don't think its exactly fair to criticise FF7's story without good reason either.

I can give a dissertations worth of reasons but I think everyone is sick of me derailing threads on the same subject at this stage.

noodler

7's story is good. Only Retr0 thinks it isn't the end.

I used to think it was crap actually Retr0, but then I grew up and I realised it was very good.

Retr0gamer

Exhibit A:

http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/FinalFantasyVII

noodler

He is wrong.

Every game will be some gamer's first - that is a cyclical eventuality.

The Kefka arguments are so weak - I'd counter and simply say he played FF6 first and can't handle the fact he was overlooked.

Retr0gamer

Well I think this is a different argument for a different thread.

Still no matter what you think of the story of FFVII can you honestly say that it stands up to the best of what the other entertainment mediums can offer? Is it really up there with the likes of Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies, the Wire, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Roots, Citizen Kane, etc.? If you think it's the pinnacle of videogame storytelling then you must agree that videogame storytelling really does have a long way to go.

Greyfox

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Fantasy books? Go read read some real literature like Catcher in the Rye.

Funnily enough I was of the same opinion, and get a lot of flak over it as well. I got a bit older and wiser and now realise that FFVII's story is a flawed mess. It's a bad anime that's been rushed and not helped by a dreadful translation.

As for MGS, it's actually just a rehash of Ninja Scroll with a modern setting and plenty of homages ripped from hollywood movies, nothing too original. Now it is very enjoyable in a hollywood action sense but to say it's the pinnacle of videogame storytelling is a grave disservice to genuinely good videogame storytelling like Silent Hill 2, System Shock 2 and Super Metroid (for storytelling through interaction and enviroment).

I read Catcher in the Rye in school and thought it was absolute rubbish. An annoying teenager with no real friends whinging about life when the real problem was he was an unlikable little whinger, unlike FF7 and MGS this was a very forgettable story.

FF7 is the most popular RPG of all time and if the world was to vote on the greatest game ever made FF7 would be in the top 5. It has a superb story with the greatest villan of all time, Sephiroth. Unlike FF8 it has characters that are easy to fall in love with and the death of Aries is quite rightly regarded as one of greatest gaming moments ever as it genuinely made some people cry, I honestly could spend 5,000 words going on about why I and so many others believe this is the greatest story ever to be put in a game but I won't as a quick google seach will bring up an endless amount of people who fell in love with this truely amazing story. FF7 is a masterpiece that's very close to the best that the games industry has to offer. Your perfectly entitled to disagree as their will never be a film/book/game that's liked by everyone but you cannot deny that FF7 has a massive legion of fans out their.

MGS is way more then that, it's essentially a superb film where you get to actually BE the central character, for me it was an event in gaming rather then just been a game. So what is the pinacle of gaming then? Silent Hill 2 is just a poor mans Resident Evil, System shock 2 was quite good all right.

Greyfox

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Exhibit A:

http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/FinalFantasyVII

Absolute pile of nonsence!

It's pretty pointless giving a link that criticises this game because 1. You know only too well theirs far, far more links out their that are full of praise for the game and 2. Their isn't a piece of entertainment in existence that everyone loves. The characters were likable, people cried when Aries died and Sephiroth is regarded by many as the best badie ever and the soundtrack was excellent.

When people say their favorite books are the Harry Potter series theirs book snobs out their that persume you havn't read that many books and it looks like the same snobbery exists when it comes to RPG's. Loads of people who love FF7 have played loads of other RPG's as well, yes it was the game that got many into RPG's but this should not be a bad thing as long as they give other RPG's a chance.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I think this is a different argument for a different thread.

Still no matter what you think of the story of FFVII can you honestly say that it stands up to the best of what the other entertainment mediums can offer? Is it really up there with the likes of Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies, the Wire, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Roots, Citizen Kane, etc.? If you think it's the pinnacle of videogame storytelling then you must agree that videogame storytelling really does have a long way to go.

Of course not, games aren't quite comparable to films yet but I just completely disagree with your FF7 story criticisms.
I

johnmcdnl

Why is everyone so worried about games having B movie stories... who cares... it's the gameplay I play for - not the story line...

Look at the gameplay in Uncharted 2 - brialliant.. the story.. standard going searchng for treasure.. save the girl.. girl betray's guy but did it to save him.. guy keeps going after girl... reunited - kill the bad guy and find the hidden treasure..

generic story - yeah? though so... but the gameplay is amazing... so i couldn't care less about the story line...

You play games to enjoy the gameplay primarily - anything after that is a bonus

---- and as for 10 minutes of story and then 2 hours of shooting people.. imagien if it was the other way around... wouldn't be a very good game would it be even if it was the best story ever written... the excessive story telling would just defeat the entire purpose of the term "gaming"

other than that the rest of the points are pretty much true lol

noodler

The story can keep me captivated - keep me playing.

Examples:

- Chasing Sephroth around the world in FF7, cheering on the Shinra army for the first time as Junon is under attack by WEAPON

- The end of MGS3

- The saddest scene in the world in SOTC

- The reveal in Bioshock

- Showing up to Lindblum in FF9 to find that Regent Cid's claims over the power of his Airship strength were greatly exaggerated.

You get my point, these moments are arguably going to last longer in the memory than a game's neat gameplay. I don't speak for everyone but I certainly appreciate what the upturn in AV quality in the last few gens has done for the medium of storytelling.

Retr0gamer

Greyfox wrote: »

An annoying teenager with no real friends whinging about life when the real problem was he was an unlikable little whinger

Is this catcer in the rye we are talking about or FFVII's Cloud?

As for johnmcdnl, fair point but still wouldn't it be nice for games to really start using elements that make videogames unique to start telling a story. Then there's your end of the spectrum, when did a crap story stop Super Mario World being amazing.

I think it's more a case of game developers trying to write a great story for their game and falling utterly flat on their face. They'd probably be better off not having bothered and leave the storytelling to designers that can write like Ken Levine and Tim Schafer.

humanji

Greyfox wrote: »

Absolute pile of nonsence!

It's pretty pointless giving a link that criticises this game because 1. You know only too well theirs far, far more links out their that are full of praise for the game and 2. Their isn't a piece of entertainment in existence that everyone loves. The characters were likable, people cried when Aries died and Sephiroth is regarded by many as the best badie ever and the soundtrack was excellent.

When people say their favorite books are the Harry Potter series theirs book snobs out their that persume you havn't read that many books and it looks like the same snobbery exists when it comes to RPG's. Loads of people who love FF7 have played loads of other RPG's as well, yes it was the game that got many into RPG's but this should not be a bad thing as long as they give other RPG's a chance.

I tried FF7, but growing up on PC RPG's I couldn't enjoy it. MGS games are just hockey stories that would fall into the Jean Claude Van Damme or Steven Seagal section if they were made into films. Except for MGS4, which was a travisty of storytelling. The creator fancies himself a filmmaker but hasn't a f*cking clue what he's doing. Get yourself an editor, man! There are better stories out there, but it's always going to be subjective.

Anyway, I kind of like that list. It's like everything on cracked.com, a bit of fun that's not to be taken seriously. Some seem to be readin way too into it.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Is this catcer in the rye we are talking about or FFVII's Cloud?

That is actually more like Squall.

Cloud was certainly isolated as a pre-teen but during the course of FF7 I just found him to be detatched.