5 reasons why it's not cool to be a gamer

Mr. K

I don't think FFVII is really the point here guys, this is the real problem:

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think the new steretype of dumb asses playing CoD all day and shouting racial slurs down the mic is far worse than the old stereotype.

How can gamers be considered mature when this stuff goes on?!

humanji

Mr. K wrote: »

I don't think FFVII is really the point here guys, this is the real problem:



How can gamers be considered mature when this stuff goes on?!

Because swearing makes you cool? Add smoking and you're practically an adult. Or so I've been lead to believe.

Retr0gamer

Greyfox wrote: »

Silent Hill 2 is just a poor mans Resident Evil

This here is all kinds of wrong.

noodler

Very different games.

Retr0gamer

I lovemy resi but it's B movie zombie fodder and proud but Silent Hill 2 is a work of art.

Greyfox

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I think this is a different argument for a different thread.

Still no matter what you think of the story of FFVII can you honestly say that it stands up to the best of what the other entertainment mediums can offer? Is it really up there with the likes of Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies, the Wire, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Roots, Citizen Kane, etc.? If you think it's the pinnacle of videogame storytelling then you must agree that videogame storytelling really does have a long way to go.

I do think it stands up very well to the stories of other books and fantasy films, I personally enjoyed FF7 more then any book or fantasy film although I'd say it's more to do with how a game can immerse you in a story in a way a film or book cannot, when I played MGS I felt like I was watching the usual suspects but this time I was actually in the film. I say fantasy books again because overratted stuff like the Catcher in the Rye or Lord of the Flies do not have the same story scale that RPG's can have.
The OP's link is right in that games have a lot of growing up to do befor you can make good comparisons with other forms of entertainment. I though both 2001: A Space Odyssey and Citizen Kane were rubbish and have aged too badly to ever compare then to games. Even great films like the Shawshank redemption, Pulp Fiction or Terminator 2, how do you go about comparing these to games? The fact is you can't as books, films and games are completely different forms of entertainment, all three forms of entertainment have their own advantages and disadvantages which mean comparisons will always be difficult!
It's not really fair to compare the story of games to films as theirs a lot of things that you can get away with storywise in a game that you cant in a film or book and a game can still be great even if it doesnt have a good story. It's great to see more games on the market with more of a story but sometimes this hinders gameplay, like in MGS4.

Looking at the links reasons:
Reason 5:- I think this is more to do with the fact that theirs still a lot of people that don't get our hobby and were aware of this but sure the last few years has seen an increase in party/social games etc as Wiis are now played a fair bit at house parties. I think as well this steriotype will always relate to anything "computerish", I think were slowly moving away from this

Reason 4:-
Not true, the games industry realises it has men in their 30's playing games, they know the average PS3/Xbox360 player is a lot older then 20. The problem is their will ALWAYS be a huge market for teenage boys and their will always be losers easily impressed by some t*ts.

Reason 3:- Ultimately theirs some great stories and lots of very good stories which the auther failed to mention but the vast majority of games sadly are way behind films. I believe this is more to do with when you make a game things like gameplay and building the game world are usually given a lot more focus and sure a brilliant story will be overlooked if it's not fun to play or doesn't look that great.

Reason 2 :- I agree with reason 2 but I'm tired so I won't ellaborate

Reason 1 : - I don't see what's uncool about this, piracy is not right but sure it happens all the time with films and music

pablomakaveli

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Is this catcer in the rye we are talking about or FFVII's Cloud?

Tbh the description he gave would be better applied to Squall from FF8.

EDIT: Did'nt see noodlers post above.

Trevor451

Things I hate about this console generation is that games are becoming more and more like movies. Im 15 now and I would rather play SNES/NES over any current gen console because the gameplay is so simple. Also a thing I dont get about gamers today is why they find war games so good? War is a horrible and I dont want games to glorify war in any way :rolleyes:

pablomakaveli

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Why is everyone so worried about games having B movie stories... who cares... it's the gameplay I play for - not the story line...

Look at the gameplay in Uncharted 2 - brialliant.. the story.. standard going searchng for treasure.. save the girl.. girl betray's guy but did it to save him.. guy keeps going after girl... reunited - kill the bad guy and find the hidden treasure..

generic story - yeah? though so... but the gameplay is amazing... so i couldn't care less about the story line...

You play games to enjoy the gameplay primarily - anything after that is a bonus

---- and as for 10 minutes of story and then 2 hours of shooting people.. imagien if it was the other way around... wouldn't be a very good game would it be even if it was the best story ever written... the excessive story telling would just defeat the entire purpose of the term "gaming"

other than that the rest of the points are pretty much true lol

It is true that gameplay is the most important thing but i think a good storyline can really add to the experience.

For example in Heavy Rain i found myself really wanting to save Ethans son because i cared about the character because he was such a well developed character. This, for me ,made the game more enjoyable.

Greyfox

Trevor451 wrote: »

Things I hate about this console generation is that games are becoming more and more like movies. Im 15 now and I would rather play SNES/NES over any current gen console because the gameplay is so simple. Also a thing I dont get about gamers today is why they find war games so good? War is a horrible and I dont want games to glorify war in any way :rolleyes:

Good point, with war games as well they tend to focus more on realism rather then gameplay

Overall I think theirs more originality and innovation in the games industry then Hollywood and it does make more money so we probally shouldn't worry too much about the story in games improving, gameplay will always be a lot more important

Jazzy

em, retr0gamer loves final fantasy vii dont ya know
couldnt resist.

(and yes retr0 its a great game, just because its not niche enough for you doesnt make it bad )

they guy who wrote that piece is right in a lot of ways. games are still evolving and thats only a good thing tbh. the reaction to games will evolve too... but dont expect miracles because as with everything, there will still be absolute idiots that play games 50 years from today (and ill still be pwnz0ring them :pac: )

Retr0gamer

Come on Jazzy, there's even more damning posts of me when I was younger being stupid and saying FFVII was better than any piece of entertainment medium. You can do better :P

I also never said FFVII was a bad game. I think it's really good but flawed and far from great storytelling.

folan

games are not, nor will ever be, movies.

gaming is, in relation to movies, a baby of a medium. driven by youth because thats where the skills are and thats only going to change with time. movies and literature have been around for alot longer. telling a story is something people have been practiced at for years, creating a story around you as you go is new, hard, and will have to be learned.

a similar list as this can actually be put up for anything, by the way.

Fnz

Article does make an unfair comparison to movies in his criticism of storytelling in games.

If you make a movie where 90 of the 100 minutes of runtime is people getting their faces blown off--even if you fill the other 10 minutes with speeches about objectivism--every critic will use the same word to describe it:

"Mindless."

Games, during their 6 to 60 hour run-time, must also concern themselves with a little thing some call 'gameplay'.

folan

Actually, the more i think about it, the more i wonder.

Gamers as loners? If you look at the WoW numbers against Facebook users etc, will that hold up? ro do we need to redefine why gamers are loners?

Maturity? everyone who uses the internet can be put in here also, since its so wide ranging!

and entitlement? well, compare the number of people who are complaining about the examples in the article against the number of people who bought them.

I dont think ill be giving this much more tought. Im off to read some limited edition crossover comics in my shed with an escort to hold a lamp above me

r3nu4l

Fnz wrote: »

Games, during their 6 to 60 hour run-time, must also concern themselves with a little thing some call 'gameplay'.

It's a good point, if the gameplay sucks but the story is great, I feel very cheated.

cherryghost

Everyone always has something to complain about, whether it is games or movies.

I read a similar article a few days ago about movies (have the link at home). It points out the repetitive mindless crap that's being churned out on the big screen lately, made for 17 year old douchebags, that the same formula is repeatedly used, piracy etc

johnmcdnl

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It is true that gameplay is the most important thing but i think a good storyline can really add to the experience.

For example in Heavy Rain i found myself really wanting to save Ethans son because i cared about the character because he was such a well developed character. This, for me ,made the game more enjoyable.

Yes i'll admit that the story "adds" to the game... but I'm just saying that it's a game.. not a movie not a book - story telling isn't the most important thing so gaming shouldn't be slated for having generic B movie storylines...

that's the point I'm trying to make here... I love a good story in a game... but tbh if the storyline isn't up to scratch but the gameplay is still great it doesn't turn you away from the game... if the story in a film is useless or the story in a book is useless then that's a different story because that's what those genres rely on... gaming doesn't rely on story telling so having a poor storyline shouldn't be something that can be used against gaming to try to bring it down

rant over :cool:

johnny_ultimate

Fnz wrote: »

Games, during their 6 to 60 hour run-time, must also concern themselves with a little thing some call 'gameplay'.

I agree with you - the actual interactive element of a game is perhaps the most important. I don't particularly care that the storyline / short video clips in Street Fighter IV are rubbish on occasion, I'm there to play. There are plenty of genres and games - most, you could argue - where story gets in the way, with the game simply designed to be played. Is there a storyline in Ikaruga? Not one that matters, anyway, and I'm not going to dock it any marks for that.

At the same time though, gaming is a unique medium that could benefit from sensible storytelling. Books and films tell stories in very different ways, and I'm sure no-one would argue that films should ignore story and just continue on producing pretty images. Yes, gameplay is vital, but a new medium provides artists with new opportunities to tell stories. And in gaming, these can be stories the player constantly interacts with, which is a significant change from the comparatively passive absorbing of images and words. You can't change the outcome of these, in games you theoretically can. We're not there yet, and I fully agree that most games storytelling is basic, awkward and a poor imitation of vastly superior examples in other mediums. Look at Mass Effect 2 - the outcome of that game isn't fixed to one general outcome, it is determined by the player's decisions and actions. It's still limited to the outcomes the developers have programmed, but it doesn't 'end' in the same way for every gamer the same way a film does. If game designers totally ignored story, I'd personally feel they're ignoring some of the inherent potential of the medium.

They just need to get rid of frigging cut-scenes first.

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Is there a storyline in Ikaruga? Not one that matters, anyway, and I'm not going to dock it any marks for that.

Funnily enough there's a nice little twist at the end.

johnny_ultimate

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Funnily enough there's a nice little twist at the end.

I'll get there someday, but it had better not turn out blue and red

were the same all along!

That God of War scene is gratuitious and pathetic

There's many the game I've played through with my dad acting as map maper or coffee maker by my side, thank fcuk we never got to that one!

Butch Cassidy

The 17-yr old geeky virgin stereotype is really really overdone at this stage. There's guys that have big jobs, big dicks, girlfriend's with big boobs and they started off playing MegaDrives years ago. Women play games too of but I can't remember when I last saw a woman that wasn't a mother-buying-for-child buy a game.

He's dead right about the gadgets thing though how many people would go back and play a great game that's 10 years old ? Lots of this whinging "mwah mwah mwah graphics are sooooo dated mwah". I suppose there's a downside to these photorealistic-realistic games that are invariably shooters that they have a short lifespan ie. are dated in a few years.

The storytelling this though is kinda personal preference isn't it? Some just wanna play though I suppose for others that want decent storylines there's maybe not as much there for them.


Oh and I got this ad at the bottom :



...too many burgers that's why!

mewso

One thing missing here though is the guys developing the games. While I thoroughly enjoyed Fallout 3 I do remember watching some preview where one of the devs was showing off the vats and the slo-mo dismemberment and so on. I was thinking I want an rpg and this guy is salivating over body parts flying through the air in slow motion.