World Cup Draft Discussion Thread

redzerdrog

Frisbee wrote: »

Yeah because he's no longer at the top of his game. He's still a decent striker by all means and will do a job, but he's a shadow of the player who had defenders the world over shítting themselves knowing they had to face him soon. Without a doubt the best striker I've ever seen play and I was sorely tempted to get him in round 4 for purely sentimental reasons.

i was tempted myself:) so to me it seems like current/recent international form/ability then international experience, then current/recent club form is how people should judge this.

Frisbee

titan18 wrote: »

Also,I think only the 20 who participated should be allowed to vote and not the forum.

We did this last time also and it worked out much better as everyone knew each others teams fairly well so could make more informed decisions.

The Volt

Frisbee wrote: »

We did this last time also and it worked out much better as everyone knew each others teams fairly well so could make more informed decisions.

Yeah totally agree that only participants should be allowed vote. For every match if people could PM me their preference that'd be great.

eagle eye

He was picked in round 4.

eagle eye

Voltwad wrote: »

Yeah totally agree that only participants should be allowed vote. For every match if people could PM me their preference that'd be great.

No, hold on a minute now. The rules clearly stated that it was open to the forum to vote.

The rules were used when I complained about the legends round so lets stick with those rules now.

redzerdrog

eagle eye wrote: »

He was picked in round 4.

No he wasn't

The Volt

eagle eye wrote: »

No, hold on a minute now. The rules clearly stated that it was open to the forum to vote.

The rules were used when I complained about the legends round so lets stick with those rules now.

I also said that with forum consensus I'd review the rules before the knockouts and it does seem that people are agreeing it'll make a lot more sense to keep the voting closed.

eagle eye

Voltwad wrote: »

I also said that with forum consensus I'd review the rules before the knockouts and it does seem that people are agreeing it'll make a lot more sense to keep the voting closed.

When we were picking our team we were under the impression that it was going to a public forum vote. Changing that now is just retarded.

redzerdrog

think only perticipents voting would make it a fairer competition and take away a lot of petty club bias like voting for a team because it has 3 man utd/liverpool/chelsea/stoke players

curry-muff

redzerdrog wrote: »

think only perticipents voting would make it a fairer competition and take away a lot of petty club bias like voting for a team because it has 3 man utd/liverpool/chelsea/stoke players

What about bias against other players in the thread, Im pretty sure there will be grudges about disputes over players, most notably eagle and xavis dispute, surely there will be as much bias that way.

Also this is a public forum, we've kept this to ourselves long enough, surely the public should be allowed to engage in this some way or another.

Necronomicon

Voltwad wrote: »

Yeah totally agree that only participants should be allowed vote. For every match if people could PM me their preference that'd be great.

No need to PM, just have a public poll on the thread so we can see who voted.

eagle eye

I have nothing to gain by having it public as far as the voting goes because I only have 1 player from the four biggest supported clubs on the forum.

I still want it left open though, its will have more transparency and make sure there is no monkey business.

Mr.Nice Guy

A problem with it being an open vote is people might not take into account the stuff that we as participants would. You could have people voting for teams because of silly reasons. For example, them liking a certain player, disliking another player etc. I would prefer for the hard work that we've all put into the teams to be recognised rather than someone just glancing at two formations and giving it about 3 seconds worth of thought, which I fear could happen in a forum-wide vote.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying everyone would vote like this. I know a few people not in the contest have followed matters which is great. I'm just not sure this would happen across the board, and it would be a shame if voting wasn't decided as carefully as everything else was.

At least we all know the time and effort required in the whole process, the planning and tinkering and revising that has to happen. Therefore I think we would be more likely to weigh up the various pros and cons and judge it more thoughtfully, imo.

I'm fine with whatever is decided in the end but that would be my take on it.

The Volt

eagle eye wrote: »

I have nothing to gain by having it public as far as the voting goes because I only have 1 player from the four biggest supported clubs on the forum.

I still want it left open though, its will have more transparency and make sure there is no monkey business.

You implying I'd mess around with the votes or something? Chill for a second would you.

eagle eye

Voltwad wrote: »

You implying I'd mess around with the votes or something? Chill for a second would you.

No not at all, I'm just saying that lets say there is 4 people in the draft that know each other quite well, there is no way to stop them from pm'ing each other and voting together for the first couple of rounds.

Smegball

I wonder will the public viewing have an effect, according to the OP the picks quality are to be determined by club and international form. Will some readers just look at a team based on the quality of the team on paper rather than judging by the original guidings.

For example, Milito would be seen on paper as an excellent choice, but he rarely plays for Inter and would be seen as a relatively poor pick. Same goes for the likes of Victor Valdes, excellent player for club but international not so much..

Whereas someone like Suarez is quality for both club and country, however on paper readers could potentially see Milito as the superior player and ignore the form guides for the picks and vote Milito.

eagle eye

Wtf is going on here? You would swear that the whole forum was just a pack of idiots or something the way you guys are talking.

There are loads of regs, in fact I'd say the vast majority who will read whats required before voting. There are a couple of idiots who don't care but the intelligent regs on this forum far outweigh them.

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't think anyone is suggesting the forum are idiots but that there could be those who aren't famliar with the game who will have a huge say in the outcome.

Let's suppose that the majority do read what's required and it's only a minority that don't. Well if it's a close-run contest in one match-up, then that minoity who aren't familiar with what's required could decide the outcome as it will only come down to a handful of votes.

Xavi6

eagle eye wrote: »

No not at all, I'm just saying that lets say there is 4 people in the draft that know each other quite well, there is no way to stop them from pm'ing each other and voting together for the first couple of rounds.

And if one person has 50 mates on the forum what's to stop them all getting a PM to vote in their buddy's favour?

Either way I'm to make me a tinfoil hat just in case.

mink_man

how does this game work???

eagle eye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't think anyone is suggesting the forum are idiots but that there could be those who aren't famliar with the game who will have a huge say in the outcome.

Let's suppose that the majority do read what's required and it's only a minority that don't. Well if it's a close-run contest in one match-up, then that minoity who aren't familiar with what's required could decide the outcome as it will only come down to a handful of votes.

Thats quite unrealistic as in a public forum vote, one vote doesn't hold as much power as in a private vote between just 20 people.

Lets say even it there are not cliques voting together, you have team x up against somebody's team and the voting is very close and y hasn't voted yet, will he be swayed to vote against team x because the guy who picked that team criticised one of his picks? I think thats a lot more likely to happen than what you are suggesting above and his vote is far more powerful.

There would not have been any criticising of other players picks imo if we had all known at the start that it was going to be a private vote as people wouldn't want to give others any reason to vote against their team.

Mr.Nice Guy

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats quite unrealistic as in a public forum vote, one vote doesn't hold as much power as in a private vote between just 20 people.

Lets say even it there are not cliques voting together, you have team x up against somebody's team and the voting is very close and y hasn't voted yet, will he be swayed to vote against team x because the guy who picked that team criticised one of his picks? I think thats a lot more likely to happen than what you are suggesting above and his vote is far more powerful.

There would not have been any criticising of other players picks imo if we had all known at the start that it was going to be a private vote as people wouldn't want to give others any reason to vote against their team.

Surely there's power in the votes in both scenarios? At least in a private vote, we would all be aware of that. I don't think we can really say there is little power in a public vote. I mean let's suppose Team X with 24 votes beats Team Y with 21 votes. In a scenario like that every vote counts, and if for instance say 8 votes were made for frivolous reasons, then it has a bearing on the result, no?

What if someone clicks on the soccer forum for the first time, maybe because of a World Cup game, and stumbles across a Draft match-up and decides to vote? Perhaps the game will be wrapping up around the time of the World Cup final which will see this board likely to get big numbers and far more newcomers likely to come across the game and vote on it. Do we really want several weeks of effort to be decided by those who don't even know what it's about? Honestly, that would concern me.

I don't think cliques will vote if it's left amongst ourselves. If people vote to screw someone over for a comment made weeks ago then they're just kidding themselves really. Also, as Xavi said, with a public vote isn't there scope for a form of canvassing to be done with people PMing others to get votes? How could we know if that's happening? That could be another potential problem.

I'll back a forum-wide vote if it's what everyone else wants but I would have concerns about it for the reasons I mentioned above. Anyway, I'll let others have their say on it as I've yapped enough and I need to figure out who to captain in my FF team. So many games... :pac:

whatawaster

i'd definitely back a closed vote. It worked in the PL draft very well, and we know the criteria we're voting on.

Necronomicon

I'd prefer closed voting but given that the OP suggested it would be forum-wide I'd have no problem with that either, given that I was expecting it. A strong OP in each thread clearly outlining the voting criteria (which, by the way, we really need to hammer out before the matches start) might be enough to let everyone know how to vote.

Bounty Hunter

I'd also back a closed vote (when im about, as im going on hols for 10days to Malaysia in July) but would have no problem if the majority of people want it public.

id assume its okay to not fully base our votes on players form/international experience and that these would just be used to rate their current ability as far as the game goes Instead dependant on the position a certain player is in and who is around him to compensate for any flaws he may have i might still vote for someone i.e If someone has been off form for a year but in this draft has been picked in a team where his abilities will be fully utilised then they might still get my vote i.e how Melo hasnt had a great year at Juventus but could fully suit the role given to him in the team he was picked for in this.

so Dawson is being replaced then? hopefully wont take too long

only 1 pick left for me, roll on the knockouts:

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Iker Casillas

---

Ivanovic

---

Subotic

---

Mathijisen

---

Gattuso

---

Riquelme

Camronesi

---

Bergkamp

---

Henry

---

Gonzalo Higuain

Frisbee

I was under the impression that only the participants would be voting, that's what we did last time and that's what worked. Opening it up to all and sundry will have people voting because they like Torres or against a team with Gerrard in it because they don't like Liverpool.

We just had a public poll too so everyone could see what way certain people voted and any votes from a non-participant weren't counted.

Mr. Guappa

I'd prefer if just us in the game voted. I know that everyone in the 20 will give plenty of thought to their choice, which I would much rather than a forum-wide vote with lots of throwaway votes.

T-b0n3

As some one who's not in this game, I'd just like to say I have been following this draft closely as its entertaining and I'm looking forward to seeing the knockout stage etc. I have been following the building of teams and I am aware of the rules and would like to be able to vote on it. But you lot have clearly put a lot of time & effort into this game so clearly whatever you lot prefer is fine. And I don't think you'd get too many people voting on teams that aren't aware of whats going on as some of you are making out. I'm sure plenty of people have been following this, and hopefully people who haven't or who aren't going to vote correctly would stay away from voting all together.

Or would there be any benefit in having a public and a closed voting system? Closed votes could be worth 2 or something if you still feel public voting won't work? Just an random idea....

Adam

Bounty Hunter

i see Minto changed his pick to Bocanegra, good pick, had considerd the US captain myself but didnt expect him to last till me next pick

Minto

I could have sworn I posted here earlier, whoops! Anyway, apologies for holding up the game last night, I was called back to work.

LuckyLloyd

What we did with the Premiership draft is have the poll public and only count votes from participants (and Eirebhoy as he had followed the threads the whole way through).

If you are making the vote forum wide in terms of the end result then I don't care really - I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time on end writeups or match specific writeups.

Mitch Connor

Redzerdrog is up now right? Xavi has been on the clock for 27 hours.

Mr. Guappa

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Redzerdrog is up now right? Xavi has been on the clock for 27 hours.

Nope, Voltwad picked at 7 this evening so Xavi has another 21 hours.

flahavaj

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What we did with the Premiership draft is have the poll public and only count votes from participants (and Eirebhoy as he had followed the threads the whole way through).

If you are making the vote forum wide in terms of the end result then I don't care really - I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time on end writeups or match specific writeups.

You wouldn't need to even have polls, just get the participants to thank posts or something.

Ye are much better off keeping it amongst the participants lads, leaving it open to public vote will lead to all kinds of blagguarding.

Peyton Manning

Just so you know, if it's left open to the public, the likes of conno16, anthony16 and stumpypeeps will have a say. Is that something any of you want?

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

Just so you know, if it's left open to the public, the likes of conno16, anthony16 and stumpypeeps will have a say. Is that something any of you want?

And so will Flahavaj, EZE, T-b0n3, ctrl-alt-delete, Helix and I could go on and on.

eagle eye

and on.:)

SlickRic

of course international caps and World Cup pedigree should count a decent bit for this.

or else what the f*ck is the point?

it shouldn't be the end all be all, obviously, but it definitely needs to be taken into account.

Frisbee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you are making the vote forum wide in terms of the end result then I don't care really - I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time on end writeups or match specific writeups.

Same, I wouldn't bother my hole doing in depth writeups. Of course people will take it seriously and put the two teams up against the right markers etc to generate a valid opinion but also there would be a lot of:

"ZOMFG he has Torres, i is Liverpool fan so i luv Torres. I is voting for you bbz lol xxx"

Whereas if it is only open to vote by those in the draft everyone appreciates the hard work the other person has put in as they have had to do it themselves and we can be sure of everyone voting fairly and for the right reasons.

flahavaj

Frisbee wrote: »

Same, I wouldn't bother my hole doing in depth writeups. Of course people will take it seriously and put the two teams up against the right markers etc to generate a valid opinion but also there would be a lot of:

"ZOMFG he has Torres, i is Liverpool fan so i luv Torres. I is voting for you bbz lol xxx"

Whereas if it is only open to vote by those in the draft everyone appreciates the hard work the other person has put in as they have had to do it themselves and we can be sure of everyone voting fairly and for the right reasons.

I would have felt exactly the same way if the voting in the PW draft had been made public.

Keeping it private means that at the very least the people deciding the winner will be people who realise the hard work it takes to do write ups etc.

How many public polls have been made on this forum that end up become a way for people to express etty club rivalries/personal grudges. It'd be a farce.

eagle eye

It was just a bit of fun using your knowledge of the game. The hardest bit was doing the write up for players and doing a depth chart of players you wanted at each position.

I enjoyed doing all this and if you think its hard work I think you need to get out in the real world a bit more.

A cenceited attitude has emerged in this thread now that I don't like at all. I don't buy this hard work story for one minute, the air of self importance from a number of posters, or lack of respect for the rest of the members of the forum has become very evident in the last 24 hours.

Personally I would much prefer a public vote as that was in the rules before we began but thats my last comment on the matter.

Mr. Guappa

So judging by the reactions in this thread it seems that the vast majority are in agreement that voting should be limited to those in the draft. I guess its just up to Voltwad to make a call on it.. the people have spoken!!

If it is closed I'll be going through my opponents team player-by-player, identifyiing weaknesses and explaining how I'll go about defeating them. If its an open poll I'll just be throwing up the line up.

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

It was just a bit of fun using your knowledge of the game. The hardest bit was doing the write up for players and doing a depth chart of players you wanted at each position.

I enjoyed doing all this and if you think its hard work I think you need to get out in the real world a bit more.

A cenceited attitude has emerged in this thread now that I don't like at all. I don't buy this hard work story for one minute, the air of self importance from a number of posters, or lack of respect for the rest of the members of the forum has become very evident in the last 24 hours.

Personally I would much prefer a public vote as that was in the rules before we began but thats my last comment on the matter.

I think you're worried cause you've been so outspoken in criticising others' choices tbh.:pac:;)

eagle eye

flahavaj wrote: »

I think you're worried cause you've been so outspoken in criticising others' choices tbh.:pac:;)

No actually I'm more concerned that certain little groups will vote for each other actually. There is a clique who have notions that they are better than everybody else on this forum and its quite clear that a few of them are in this game going on the 'if its pubic I'm throwing the toys out of the pram' comments.

Frisbee

eagle eye wrote: »

No actually I'm more concerned that certain little groups will vote for each other actually. There is a clique who have notions that they are better than everybody else on this forum and its quite clear that a few of them are in this game going on the 'if its pubic I'm throwing the toys out of the pram' comments.

No-one is throwing the toys out of the pram.

All people have said is that they won't put as much effort into their final write-up if it's open to the whole forum as it won't be given the right amount of attention.

eagle eye

Frisbee wrote: »

No-one is throwing the toys out of the pram.

All people have said is that they won't put as much effort into their final write-up if it's open to the whole forum as it won't be given the right amount of attention.

That is throwing the toys out of the pram.

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

No actually I'm more concerned that certain little groups will vote for each other actually. There is a clique who have notions that they are better than everybody else on this forum and its quite clear that a few of them are in this game going on the 'if its pubic I'm throwing the toys out of the pram' comments.

Maybe there could be some compromise.

Have the 20 votes of the participants be worth one vote each. And the votes of the rest of the forum be worth something like 5 votes or something like that? Or treat the rest of the forum as a 21st participant? Either way give the forum a voice but also recognise that the participants should have a greater say. It would also be interesting to see if the participants and the forum pick the same winners.

Peyton Manning

Or participants count 1.5, and everyone else counts 1, or something similar.

Frisbee

eagle eye wrote: »

That is throwing the toys out of the pram.

How? Throwing the toys out of the pram would be something that directly effects the course of the game, either slowing it or stopping it progressing. The game will still flow as it is before without write-ups, the threads just won't be as decent tbh, as what's the point putting the time into doing a good write up of your team when about 50% of the voters will look at the two teams and vote for the one who has the most players from their team/players they know.

Mr. Guappa

Frisbee wrote: »

All people have said is that they won't put as much effort into their final write-up if it's open to the whole forum as it won't be given the right amount of attention.

Exactly.. I doubt if most people not in the draft are going to look up guys like Subotic, Godin, Kolarov, Isla and other lesser known players before voting.