Orwell League Race 03/06 - Brittas

dave.obrien

Probably a ridiculous question, but what time is sign on tonight?!

niceonetom

It's always 6:30 isn't it?

100Suns

Anytime up to 7 is usually ok. Nice evening for it. Good luck.

dave.obrien

Excellent, better get going then!

zzzzzzzz

Should be a good one - heard it's finishing up the hill. Sorry I'm going to miss it

DirkVoodoo

Well, that was interesting. Slightly different route, 3 laps of the Brittas circuit with a new uphill finish. Viewable here.

Got there pretty early and after a tuesday "recovery" spin from the Mick Byrne 200 that pointed to my legs being empty, I was expecting the worst. The pace starting off was pretty handy, there were 3 UCD guys in the mix who seemed like they had the legs to do some damage. Unfortunately the curse of the limit group struck again. Good periods of work with people rotating smoothly and keeping the pace high, were undone by people not coming through. Far too often we were strung out in a line with the guy at the front doing too much and suffering for it.

Eventually we were down to a group of myself, Rodney, dave.o.brien, the orwell guy with the crazy long hair and the 3 UCD lads. I started to think we were going to stay away, despite the group still being a bit undisciplined. Dave ended up doing an awful lot of work after telling me he was nearly spent, I think it was the cycling equivalent of taking one for the team. The UCD guys started saying we were going to get caught, I told them (from what Romano said to me during the pre-season race) "Never make it easy for them" and went up the front. Again, we pushed the pace up and were back on the N81 for the final lap. I started to feel a little giddy at this point, thinking we might do it and what my victory salute would be as I crossed the finish line. I felt strong enough (thank you powerbar gel!) that I could probably drop a few people on the climbs and claim my podium spot if it came to that. Unfortunately, turning off the N81 towards the lake the other pace car passed and it was game over. I made one last attempt to up the pace, but it looked more like a solo break away. I sat up on the descent as we were swallowed up by the main group.

I was now with a few of my limit chums at the front of the group, next thing 2 guys make strong breaks off the front. I don't know why, and I left it too late, but I made a pathetic attempt to ride off the front after them, in the end though I made a small bit of ground with one of the UCD guys on my wheel. People started to pass me and I got the sinking feeling that I was going to slip out the back.

One last push, dig deep! The bunch was big enough (I mean huge!) that I could easily sit in and try and move my way up. I was happy enough with my bike handling, it's definitely progressed and I was finding gaps where months ago I would have been afraid to go. However, too many guys were just wheel sucking...in the MIDDLE of the fecking road! If you aren't going to even try and race, please move over! It was really dangerous and it meant the passing riders were on the wrong side of the road. I passed a little midget in a Lucan jersey and pointed to the big gap to his left. Unfortunately he got thick and started asking me what the problem was, he even started tugging on the back of my saddle at one point (a Tiernans guy witnessed this and mentioned how crazy he thought the guy was after the race).

I saw Tom moving up and made a mental note to stay near him. Staying near tom = good. The right turn up to the new finish line was steep but nothing major. Some guys were either in the wrong gear or just not fond of it and nearly going sideways. I felt like I was back in Flanders and applied some of what I learned there, mainly that shouting "I'm coming through", etc.

I didn't place, but I think I raced well and definitely enjoyed it.

Less pathetic than last time GARMIN STATS.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

However, too many guys were just wheel sucking...in the MIDDLE of the fecking road! If you aren't going to even try and race, please move over! It was really dangerous and it meant the passing riders were on the wrong side of the road.

That circuit scares me. I'm not sure why, but it always feels like there's a really bad accident waiting to happen.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

That circuit scares me. I'm not sure why, but it always feels like there's a really bad accident waiting to happen.

It's too narrow and there are too many riders, definitely.

EDIT: I should mention my Garmin methodology. Lap 1 = cycle out, Lap 2 = Race, Lap 3 = cycle home.

Diarmuid

Good fun. Cycled out, first 3/4 lap was a gentle leg warmer but it was obvious we were going slow. Then bang - semi scratch join us. I was right at the back and hopped on the train as it passed and from there on it was hammer down.

Wasted a bit too much energy on the main road on the 3rd lap so wasn't feeling too confident with about 3k to go. However I bided (sp?) my time and worked my way up the outside as the road pitched up. Was about 6th as the road took the right and 200m to go. Finished about 10th.

Cycled back on my own which was the hardest part of the whole spin. I murdered a chicken madras when I got home

levitronix

Next week im back work & baby duites will be laid aside for racing

nice write up dirk, always such an anticlimax just kidding keep them coming

Caroline_ie

The pace in the limit group was quite high, so breakaway from the back for me I am usually able to keep up with the group 3/4 of the race before i get dropped when the pace increases, this time around, I didn't finish the 1st lap with the group. Oh well I still finished the race ... behind.

montac

No dangerous bunch finish for me either... Also dropped on the first lap from Limit.
Combination of being knackered, the speed of the limit group, and some curious discipline in the line. There were some lads who would get to the front and then chat to the person beside them. When a shout would come from the back, the chat boys would sprint, and the group began to splinter. Might have been the same fella each time too.
But, anyway, my legs gave up at the rise to the finish line on the first lap. Back to the drawing board...

niceonetom

Good race bu tI was back to my old dithering ways in the final couple of km. No result, but still, a good workout.

The semi-scratch went of very fast last night - I thought it was just me being a bit tired and taking a long time to get my legs going again, but looking at the stats now the first lap agv was 43.2kph. I was worried that I would cook myself there and I was letting gaps open before we'd even gotten off the N81. I'm going to have to do more of a warm up before these things I think, going from cold to 95% maxHR is awful.

Thankfully we caught semi-limit within the first lap and that slowed thigs down (though we still averaged over 40kph for lap 2). The pace settled to something approaching comfortable but the bunch was so big now that manoeuvring towards the front and staying there without taking the piss on the right hand side of the road was tough. I basically decided not to bother and trust that it would all stay together until we caught the limit anyway. It's not easier back there though, getting out of the corners and even the descent from after the old finishline, it's easy to find yourself sprinting just to stay in. That's what I get.

I actually like that circuit. It may be narrow but the uphill finish slows the sprint down and makes it a bit safer I think.
On the final drag before the new finish things were cagey. I was trying to work my way up but still stay economical so I'd be able to do something if I got there. I think everyone else was having the same thoughts so there was a lot of riders just filling the road. I saw Dirk sneak up on the left and Diarmuid on the right. I was definitely being to timid. I thought the finish was about 500m (though I'd also heard 1500m) after the right turn where things get steeper. More like 200m. Those who refused to gear down before the corner formed a road block on the way out of it, a near static monument to machismo (53t) over effectiveness (34t). As it happens the finish was only 200m up the road and there was simply no more time to get further up. I'd say I finished twenty somethingth. Bum.

Glad to see improvement from you Dirk, you looked positively sprightly on the finish. That drag suits you and you will get a result there some week.

el tel

Excellent report!

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

...I passed a little midget in a Lucan jersey and pointed to the big gap to his left. Unfortunately he got thick and started asking me what the problem was, he even started tugging on the back of my saddle at one point...

My god, surely that kind of behaviour warrants a 'touch my bike again and I'll smash your face in' chat afterwards? Fair play to for maintaining your reserve.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

However, too many guys were just wheel sucking...in the MIDDLE of the fecking road! If you aren't going to even try and race, please move over! It was really dangerous and it meant the passing riders were on the wrong side of the road.

I'm hardly an expert on race etiquette, but I don't think there's anything wrong with defending a position coming towards the finish (in the middle of a race it's a different thing altogether).

Keeping left tends to mean you get boxed in. Why would he want to do that for you?

If you want to be in a stronger position you need to move up earlier. That means you may find yourself at the front whilst others wheelsuck, and lose out in the sprint. This is not a resolvable problem, except by being stronger or having a leadout train.

(I await correction from the more experienced)

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

I'm hardly an expert on race etiquette, but I don't think there's anything wrong with defending a position coming towards the finish (in the middle of a race it's a different thing altogether).

Keeping left tends to mean you get boxed in. Why would he want to do that for you?

If you want to be in a stronger position you need to move up earlier. That means you may find yourself at the front whilst others wheelsuck, and lose out in the sprint. This is not a resolvable problem, except by being stronger or having a leadout train.

(I await correction from the more experienced)

I don't think he was defending a position, he was just sitting on a wheel, which he could have done equally as well on the left side of the road. I certainly didn't see him near the finish line anyway.

If you aren't going to try and move up then you can't really complain about getting boxed in, why not just perform the ultimate defence and sit on the right side of the road? Park the bus, as it were.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I don't think he was defending a position, he was just sitting on a wheel, which he could have done equally as well on the left side of the road. I certainly didn't see him near the finish line anyway.

If you aren't going to try and move up then you can't really complain about getting boxed in, why not just perform the ultimate defence and sit on the right side of the road? Park the bus, as it were.

Unless I've misunderstood, you are frustrated that people won't politely keep left to allow you to move up and contest the sprint. It doesn't work like that, it's a race.

I'm not sure what the rules are about crossing the white line, but I think it is perfectly acceptable towards the end of the race to take whatever road position you like provided that you do so safely (i.e. don't weave around unpredictably). Staying further right generally means that you have fewer wheelsucking opportunities, but that's the tradeoff for having a clearer run.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

Unless I've misunderstood, you are frustrated that people won't politely keep left to allow you to move up and contest the sprint. It doesn't work like that, it's a race.

I'm not sure what the rules are about crossing the white line, but I think it is perfectly acceptable towards the end of the race to take whatever road position you like provided that you do so safely (i.e. don't weave around unpredictably). Staying further right generally means that you have fewer wheelsucking opportunities, but that's the tradeoff for having a clearer run.

Oh no, he wasn't in my way, not at all. I was able to move up past him. But the right hand side of the race was on the far right of the road, brushing the hedges. I know they shouldn't be there, even if they are trying to move up, if a car had come flying around the corner it would have been messy. I just think the guy should have had a bit more awareness.

It's a small point I know, I only pointed to the left and said as much. If he grabs my saddle again in another race I may have to go Cadel on his ass.

dave.obrien

@Dirk, go Cadel on his ass anyway, we've got your back!

But the discipline in the limit group is improving, just a few times when the chain broke down. Generally, though, I'm finding that the riders are getting stronger, and we're nearly staying away. The point of the handicaps is that you get caught close to the end, and that's 2 races in a row where we got caught near the end, so I'm happy enough.

But yes, on a personal note, I didn't know where I'd be at, a bit of a stomach issue over the weekend meant I hadn't tested the legs, but I felt ok at the start. That changed when during the first lap, the chain broke down going over the bridge and I pulled through to give Dirk a dig out, legs were shaking. Gritted my teeth and did my turn though, but knew it wasn't going to be the most comfortable day for me, and we weren't even finished the first lap! Did have to sit out a couple of turns, but once I was ok, I made my way to the front and just did what I could for as long as I could on the second lap; if I was going out, I'd better need to crawl back. Oddly, a couple of ride shots later, and I was feeling a bit more stable. The group made it to the start of the third lap uncaught, and I think the adrenaline helped me stay with it. Once we were caught, I accepted I wasn't going to be able to compete, but sat in the group for the most part, and allowed myself to fall out the back near the end.

All in all, I think my racing is improving, as is the standard in the limit group in general, but we could do with a bit more organisation. The 3 UCD lads will hopefully be a helpful addition, but they still need to learn a couple of things about group riding. Great fun, as usual, and can't wait for next week!

100Suns

Anyone else come to the veiw that it was dangerous last night? The bunch was right across the road for the last km, limited forward visibility-if a car came round a corner bad things would have happened-and no ambulance that I could see. The new finish at Black Bull last week was much better and safer. Is there a case for replacing/modifying the Brittas circuit?

Fair play to the Limit riders who made the effort and nearly stayed away (assuming they were from the limit group?). Semi-limit seemed to sit and wait to be caught before making an effort.

Joxer_S

a bit of a stomach issue over the weekend meant I hadn't tested the legs

46. When asked "how are you?" while riding you must proceed with one of the following...
-Complain about coming off a sickness.
- Explain you're peaking for bigger races later in the season
- Mention that this is a "recovery ride"
-That you are on the tail end of your daily 6 hour training ride

dave.obrien

Yep, I follow that guide to the letter of the law!!!

Note to self, must hide my Aldi jerseys...

In all honesty, too much drink and an undercooked burger leads to an unhappy night of sleep with frequent trips to the bathroom, damn barbecues!

Chips Lovell

100Suns wrote: »

Anyone else come to the veiw that it was dangerous last night? The bunch was right across the road for the last km, limited forward visibility-if a car came round a corner bad things would have happened-and no ambulance that I could see.

I'm not a fan of the new circuit. I think the road is too narrow near the finish. When they used to finish closer to Kilbride last year I thought it was safer.

100Suns wrote: »

The new finish at Black Bull last week was much better and safer. Is there a case for replacing/modifying the Brittas circuit

Where are they finishing now at Black Bull?

zzzzzzzz

el tonto wrote: »

I'm not a fan of the new circuit. I think the road is too narrow near the finish. When they used to finish closer to Kilbride last year I thought it was safer.



Where are they finishing now at Black Bull?

It was the green sheds circuit and they finished up on the new main road (i.e. on the lap, not back towards batterstown).

Chips Lovell

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

It was the green sheds circuit and they finished up on the new main road (i.e. on the lap, not back towards batterstown).

Plenty of room on that stretch. Any landmarks at the finish?

100Suns

The line was hard to spot but it's wide carriageway with hard shoulders, good surface, excellent forward visibility, a slight incline and the prevailing wind will usually help .

The ambulance issue also needs to be sorted - I believe it's covered in the fee so where is it?? :mad:

Chips Lovell

That's right, I haven't noticed one this year.

Nietzschean

el tonto wrote: »

That's right, I haven't noticed one this year.

i've seen it in black bull a few times, usually following the scratch riders around. it was there for that last race on the green sheds circuit

DirkVoodoo

Nietzschean wrote: »

i've seen it in black bull a few times, usually following the scratch riders around. it was there for that last race on the green sheds circuit

Ah, you're right, I remember that now. One of the joys of marshalling :rolleyes:

100Suns

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Ah, you're right, I remember that now. One of the joys of marshalling :rolleyes:

I believe the only reason it was there was that one Jimmie Stagg was organising it on behalf of Lucan and insisted the race wouldn't go ahead if it wasn't there. The man has a point. Look at what happened at the Ras on closed roads. Thankfully nothing too serious there but could have been much worse.