What happened to the Pub??

zagmund

To answer the OPs questions -

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons? Was never really a major pub drinker, but cost is definitely a factor. I drink wine as much as I drink beer. I wouldn't mind sitting in a pub with a bottle of wine in front of me, but from what I see most/all pubs don't support that. You can walk into a bar in Spain or Italy, order a bottle of Prosecco or something and nobody bats an eye.

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean? A place to meet people and enjoy yourself. Not simply an alcohol dispensing facility.

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban? Drink-drive ban - yes, and this is a good thing. How to fight that - not easy - but change the local from being something which is 95% alcohol focussed to something that is a social area, serving alcohol, serving food, providing entertainment, etc . . . that way drink driving issues become moot for more people.

Choice is definitely an issue. I was in the middle of nowhere in the US last week. You could get 20, 30, 40 *quality* beers both local and regional as well as Belgian imports, and others in any bar you could find - even the dives. This got me thinking along similar lines to some of the posters here - you walk into a bar here and you get 4 or 5 generic beers on draught. You may be able to buy *a few* posh bottled beers, but at a huge premium. People in the place I was visiting would choose where to go to because "they have Fat Tire on tap in that place", or "they have a load of those North Carolina micro-brews at the other place". There is some distinction in the range available. It just doesn't appear that this is the case, with the notable exception of places like the Porterhouse which has been mentioned more than once on this thread. People go there because of the variety.

z

Gaunty

There are reasons the majority of pubs do not have a huge selection of foreign beers on tap.

1. If you seen the pricelist from a supplier those types of beers are more expensive per pint to buy in and normally only come in 20l or 30l kegs. It does not make sense to buy them in when the majority of people will not try new beers or only try it once and then go back to their cheaper regular pint.

2. More taps mean more counter space taken up by pumps and it means the pub needs more storage area and a bigger cooler room to keep the kegs. In my pub we could not get them in even if we wanted to as we don't have the space and we have no room to expand as we are in the center of town.

3. There are no real micro breweries or regional beers in Ireland. It is not like Germany or Belgium where every major town or city seems to have its own local brew.

4. If people are not drinking the new drinks on tap regular then you have to pour off a pint or two from the line when people first ask for it otherwise you are giving out a bad pint. So your just throwing money down the sink.


I hope that helps explain it from a publican point of view.

Gaunty

I am not trying to be rude or argumentative with this next question guys so please don't take it the wrong way ok.

I am just wondering, do any of the posters in this thread manage a business of their own? If so, what kind of profit margins do you aim for on the goods or services you supply.

HavingCrack

zagmund wrote: »

Choice is definitely an issue. I was in the middle of nowhere in the US last week. You could get 20, 30, 40 *quality* beers both local and regional as well as Belgian imports, and others in any bar you could find - even the dives. This got me thinking along similar lines to some of the posters here - you walk into a bar here and you get 4 or 5 generic beers on draught. You may be able to buy *a few* posh bottled beers, but at a huge premium. People in the place I was visiting would choose where to go to because "they have Fat Tire on tap in that place", or "they have a load of those North Carolina micro-brews at the other place". There is some distinction in the range available. It just doesn't appear that this is the case, with the notable exception of places like the Porterhouse which has been mentioned more than once on this thread. People go there because of the variety.

z

Actually zagmund raises an interesting point here though not intentionally. In America bars are not places for socialising amd meeting people-they're places to go drink and get drunk. However American bars are still thriving. Does anyone know why this is?? Just an interesting difference with the Irish emphasis on socialising.

Heroditas

Gaunty - thanks for explaining the reasons why most pubs would be reluctant to stock some of the more "exotic" beers. That certainly makes sense.
It's a shame that people won't even consider trying some of these beers but instead they want a Heineken/Coors Light/Carlsberg. At least Becks is quite a nice beer.
From my own experience, some of my mates say "urgh, one of those flat ENGLISH beers" when I go to a party and pull out a bottle of Spitfire or Hobgoblin. They change their minds once they actually drink it. I think we, as a country, are obsessed with all things Guinness and if we don't drink that, we drink the "fizzy piss" instead (the lagers I mnentioned above).

As for my own drinking habits, I don't go to the pub much anymore. There are several reasons:

1. I'm not as old as I was and am not out "chasing skirt" anymore.

2. Therefore I like to go to a quiet pub where I can meet up with the lads and we have a laugh. Most pubs have music blaring or have TVs hanging from every corner. Every night of the week Sky Sports is on. FFS! All that happens is your eyes are drawn to the TV.
Please, turn it off! It kills conversation

3. Choice of beers. I like pubs like the Porterhouse because even if I don't have one of the beers on tap, I can try some of the bottled beers and savour them. As a result, if I'm in a pub in Dublin I usually end up drinking Guinness because it's the best of a bad lot. Most pubs don't have an alternative to Guinness either. Quite annoying because Beamish and Murphys are superior IMO.


Prices aren't a big thing for me. I'll spend €5 or €5.50 on a beer if it's very good quality and I like the venue!

But please publicans, turn the TV off and stop trying to deafen us with cheesy music.
We'll actually drink more because we'll enjoy spending time in your hostelry.
By all means, put on the TV if there is a big match on but is there any justification having it on from 10am to midnight 7 days a week and showing Conference Football on a Tuesday night .... or even worse .... Sky Sports News all day?

southsiderosie

Gaunty wrote: »

I am not trying to be rude or argumentative with this next question guys so please don't take it the wrong way ok.

I am just wondering, do any of the posters in this thread manage a business of their own? If so, what kind of profit margins do you aim for on the goods or services you supply.

Both my uncle and brother are in the pub business in the US; my uncle owns his bar, and my brother is a bar manager. I've worked in my uncle's bar and also helped him with some of his expansion schemes, none of which he's lost money on. I can't give you exact figures on profit margins, but I can tell you what has been his key money makers: 1) improving and expanding his food options, 2) taking advantage of opportunities to expand and reuse space, in particular by adding a party room and a pizza operation and 3) hoarding cash during the boom, which let him expand during the recession at far below cost.

Having a good menu helped him keep his customers, even though he is at the edge of a high-tax county (meaning people could drive an extra 10 minutes for cheaper drinks). It also brings in people who are happy to just eat, which matters given strict drunk driving laws in the US (he is in the suburbs with no public transport). The party room, which has a HUGE flat screen and multiple sports feeds, makes money not just for major sports events, but also for birthday parties etc (again, because people like the food). He bought the pizza oven at fire sale prices, and is now looking into investing in the development of his own microbrewery; last summer we went around Wisconsin checking out stills and sampling different brews.

I think if people want to survive in a changing and competitive industry, they need to take some risks. Too many Irish bars have limited options, not only for beer on tap, but bottles and even for liquor. Obviously the "old" system of doing business isn't working out too well for a lot of pubs; why not take a risk and try something new? Stocking Goose Island or Hendrick's doesn't require putting in new taps (although there are plenty of Irish pubs who could stand to move away from the Guinness/Carlsberg/cider trifecta of evil). Hell, take some initiative and start developing craft beers; I would think there would be both domestic and perhaps even international opportunities (long term) since Ireland is a "brand" for alcohol production.

Gaunty

I fully agree with you Heroditas. Pubs are far too obsessed now with having the tv on and having music blaring to replace a lack of atmosphere and character. In my pub we have the tv turned off at night unless there is a major sporting event on. The music is turned off during the day and most nights unless someone asks for it on and even then we have it a level where you can only just hear it and still talk at a normal level.

Of course we show the horse racing during the day because there is a bookies across the road and a lot of our regulars love having small bets and enjoyment with their drinks but we find that it helps improve the atmosphere as people are talking about their fancies for each race and getting excited and buying everyone drink when they have a big winner.

We rely on our pool table, card games such as poker or knockout 45 and a good regular base for our atmosphere along with bar staff that will join in the craic and know everyones names and favourite drinks even if that person only comes in a handful of times a year. We also offer beamish which has become our biggest seller ahead of Guiness as we sell it for €3.10 (strangely only a handful of other pubs in town have caught on to the fact people prefer it)

But here is the kicker, with the exception of the varied selection of foreign beers my pub (in my own obviously biased opinion of course!) seems to be the criteria of most people in this thread and what they think a pub should be like however on the busiest street in town with 6 pubs within 50 metres of each other we do the worst business of them all. The others all have their blaring music, more expensive drinks and some have staff that look at you like you are dirt. So i am at a loss here. There is a vocal minority here but the majority seem to like being overcharged and going to cattle mart pubs where they just want you in, get your money, get you out. Places to be seen going i suppose.

The sickening thing is we are now after drawing up plans to remodel the pub and try to modernise more to be like the other pubs to get more business. It breaks my heart the thoughts that my beloved pub with a fine friendly atmosphere has to be replaced by a soulless money grabbing business but it just seems to be the type of place that people want.

southsiderosie

HavingCrack wrote: »

Actually zagmund raises an interesting point here though not intentionally. In America bars are not places for socialising amd meeting people-they're places to go drink and get drunk. However American bars are still thriving. Does anyone know why this is?? Just an interesting difference with the Irish emphasis on socialising.

Hm, as an American who has lived in Ireland, I'm not sure I agree with this. Maybe this is the case for "frat boy" bars, but I certainly saw plenty of Irish treating pubs as a place to "drink and get drunk". Unfortunately, many of them then try to socialize, with disastrous results. In my experience, drunken lunacy at closing time seems to be far worse in Ireland and the UK than in the US, and I've lived in Chicago and Boston, both of which are bar cities.

At my local in Chicago, a pint of craft beer was $3 (Magic Hat) and a meal (burger/fries, large ceasar salad, BBQ chicken) was $7 -8 dollars. My local in Boston was pretty similar, and offered so many different beers that they had a "beer menu" in addition to what was on tap (and written on a giant chalkboard above the bar). My local in Miami didn't have food, but featured 80 beers from around the world at $3/bottle (that was a pretty bare-bones operation, but it's also hidden in the middle of South Beach on an expensive strip of real estate). So you could spend the evening downing Quilmes or a nice Weisse beer for nothing, all while sitting under palm trees watching the beautiful people float by.

So, maybe it's the case that American bars are thriving (and I'd guess not all of them, from what I've heard) in part because it's relatively cheap to go out. It may also be because "drinking to get drunk"is more common among the young, who in America cannot drink in bars until they are 21. This is the same population that in Ireland is retreating from bars to off licenses and their sofas.

southsiderosie

gaunty, if you don't mind my asking, how old are your regulars? (not trying to be snarky)

BeerNut

Gaunty wrote: »

3. There are no real micro breweries or regional beers in Ireland. It is not like Germany or Belgium where every major town or city seems to have its own local brew.

Dublin, Belfast, Galway, Cork, Templemore, Dungarvan, Kenmare, Dingle and Waringstown all have their own local microbrewed beers. Carlow has a large brewery though it is impossible to get a pint of their beer in a Carlow pub. We're not like Germany or Belgium, true. But we're getting there.

Gaunty

It is a very varied age group. The pub is split into two parts, a quieter front bar where the 40+ crowd normally drink and a larger back area with the pool table, jukebox etc. where people of all ages drink. We have regulars going from 18 to 84. 70% are probably 30+ however. But the pub is still popular for its pool table among younger drinkers.

Gaunty

BeerNut wrote: »

Dublin, Belfast, Galway, Cork, Templemore, Dungarvan, Kenmare, Dingle and Waringstown all have their own local beers. Carlow has a large brewery though it is impossible to get a pint of their beer in a Carlow pub. We're not like Germany or Belgium, true. But we're getting there.

Fair enough, i was actually unaware there was even that amount of Irish beers on offer. I just presumed they didn't exist as i had never seen or heard of them and they don't show up on my suppliers list of drinks. I'll look into them, any suggestions of whats best?

Captain Chaos

southsiderosie wrote: »

At my local in Chicago, a pint of craft beer was $3 (Magic Hat) and a meal (burger/fries, large ceasar salad, BBQ chicken) was $7 -8 dollars. My local in Boston was pretty similar, and offered so many different beers that they had a "beer menu" in addition to what was on tap (and written on a giant chalkboard above the bar). My local in Miami didn't have food, but featured 80 beers from around the world at $3/bottle (that was a pretty bare-bones operation, but it's also hidden in the middle of South Beach on an expensive strip of real estate). So you could spend the evening downing Quilmes or a nice Weisse beer for nothing, all while sitting under palm trees watching the beautiful people float by.

That's it I'm of to the 'states.:D

My locals are all like night clubs, music that's too loud to talk to person beside you, overpriced and limited selection of drink. The live music and DJs they get in are terrible and too loud. That goes for the 4 local pubs that are within walking distance for me.

Let the night clubs be night clubs and the pubs as pubs.

Brian CivilEng

Gaunty wrote: »

There are reasons the majority of pubs do not have a huge selection of foreign beers on tap.

Just to take issue with one thing you said Gaunty, not one place in this thread did people claim they wanted a wider variety of foreign beers on tap. the only brands mentioned from from the Carlow brewery and Galway hooker, in fact the only foreign brands mentioned were Smithwicks and Heineken. People wanted more selection on tap, it is depressing when pretty much every pub has the same beers and none of them are the one you want.

I'm not in the business so I am not qualified to make this remark it's just an opinion I am throwing out on the internet so feel free to shoot me down. But I think it sounds like your main competition is the off license, not the other pubs on the street. People who would like your pub are the type of people who are currently sitting at home drinking because they think all pubs are like the other five on the street. If you do renovate and become like the other pubs I'm sure that you will succeed in the short term, you can tempt folks away from the other five on the street to drink in your pub. Then again what happens when one of the other pubs does something different, the drinkers who pay for overpriced swill so that they can shout over music at each other are not the type to be loyal to one establishment. So you get into an arms race with the other pubs to attract the fickle drinkers.

TomD101

ardinn wrote: »

Look, Pub prices are not there to try and bankrupt you while turning publicans into millionares! They are a generally a fair reflection on the costs incurred + a profit margin (which every business needs) in order to operate. We have 2 pubs and both are struggling. overheads eat any money making ability the business needs to develop and continue.

But that said your point is that the cost of €4.00 (average) per pint is excessive?

Compared to many other leisure activities I strongly believe it is one of the best value.

Cinema Ticket for 2 - €20 + Snacks could come close to €50 (yes it does, I often go and usually in the €45 range for me and the missus)

Bowling for 2 for one Hour - €40

Etc Etc

Does anyone agree after having a good think about it that maybe the price is not the issue.

Im just trying to look at other activities and loosen peoples thinking a bit, not shying away from the fact that most answers will be the price.

You haven't mentioned the most important part of the reason why the price of drink is so expensive in this country - excise tax. It is fairly simple, pubs will struggle until :

a) the economy gets back to the level it was 4 years ago (0% chance of happening

or

b) the price of drink, inclusive of tax, falls significantly ( slightly more chance of happening than a but still unlikely).

Unfortunately you are in an industry that has a very bleak outlook for the future. You will need to come up with some creative ideas to get customers in the door that will give you a competitive advantage over rival pubs in your area - otherwise the punters will stay at home with their cheap cans.

Gaunty

abitofacomedian wrote: »

Just to take issue with one thing you said Gaunty, not one place in this thread did people claim they wanted a wider variety of foreign beers on tap. the only brands mentioned from from the Carlow brewery and Galway hooker, in fact the only foreign brands mentioned were Smithwicks and Heineken. People wanted more selection on tap, it is depressing when pretty much every pub has the same beers and none of them are the one you want.

I stand corrected, my apologies, i didn't read the brand names clearly enough. I must have got confused cos i love pints of Erdinger so that was in my head when i was writing that! Shame i can't get it on draught in many places and i don't have the room for it in my own pub.

I also agree that the price of drinks in off licenses and supermarkets has a majorly damaging effect on my type of pub. However we just can't compete there, different types of overheads and there was a change in the law in 2006 i think (I'll have to look it up) which basically allows the supermarkets to sell their drink below or at cost price. They make up the difference on people spotting and buying other things once they are in the supermarket buying the drink.

But keep the ideas and opinions coming, i'm reading them with great interest and im sure ardinn is also. I care what the customer thinks and i'd like to run a more successful Irish pub that isn't the usual cookie cutter disco bar.

BeerNut

Gaunty wrote: »

Fair enough, i was actually unaware there was even that amount of Irish beers on offer.

I put together a list of every beer I could think of, made and available in Ireland last year. There are 105 beers on it.

Gaunty wrote: »

they don't show up on my suppliers list of drinks.

Most Irish breweries sell direct. The Porterhouse distribute through their sort-of subsidiary Grand Cru beers.

Gaunty wrote: »

I'll look into them, any suggestions of whats best?

Well, something local is always good, but I've no idea where you are. Galway Hooker is well worth a punt, I'd say. It's a good one for shutting up the we-want-something-different brigade.

mayo.mick

i would say the cost difference has a lot to do with it.
in my local they have all the usual largers and beers, they also sell cans of bulmers over the counter at €3.80 a can :eek: the same price as a pint of larger guinness and beer are €3.50, small town east mayo.

Heroditas

Gaunty wrote: »

Of course we show the horse racing during the day because there is a bookies across the road and a lot of our regulars love having small bets and enjoyment with their drinks but we find that it helps improve the atmosphere as people are talking about their fancies for each race and getting excited and buying everyone drink when they have a big winner.

We rely on our pool table, card games such as poker or knockout 45 and a good regular base for our atmosphere along with bar staff that will join in the craic and know everyones names and favourite drinks even if that person only comes in a handful of times a year. We also offer beamish which has become our biggest seller ahead of Guiness as we sell it for €3.10 (strangely only a handful of other pubs in town have caught on to the fact people prefer it)

This sounds like a proper pub, not one of those vile gin-palaces we are polluting the cities with nowadays.

Gaunty wrote: »

The sickening thing is we are now after drawing up plans to remodel the pub and try to modernise more to be like the other pubs to get more business. It breaks my heart the thoughts that my beloved pub with a fine friendly atmosphere has to be replaced by a soulless money grabbing business but it just seems to be the type of place that people want.

Heartbreaking.
People want the gin palaces and dismiss the other type of pub as something for "old people".

Brian CivilEng

Gaunty, slap an "Over 30's only" sign on your pub, that'll sort it out. The older folks will be glad that they know this will be a welcoming pub, the young folk will want something they can't get and try to chance their luck

IrishWhiskeyCha

ardinn wrote: »

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

As a person who lives in a rural area it means the centre of the community but it's now where it used to be. The drink driving has had a major effect but smoking is neither here nor there. However if the weather is bad I find it easier to have a drink at home rather than trying to get a lift(taxi) or comtemplating the walk.

ardinn wrote: »

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

As the OP has a rural pup and I can understand the problems. Food and bigger drinks selection is a very hard to justify as you need the footfall to justify a chef or a large range of drinks. Also a rural pub cannot be all to every one but as long as it is comfortable and welcoming that is half the battle. Staff play a large part in a good pub. If you have good amiable staff again that is a big part of the atmosphere.

However do get in a few interesting bottled beers (I understand that getting a keg for something that may not work is pointless. But bottled beer should last a good while. I'm a whiskey head ... get in a few bottles of decent scotch and Irish and don't go mad with the pricing. An opened bottle will last a very long time if not a big hit. 12-24months is not a major issue. To encourage these drinks have a beer and or whiskey of the month discounted and get people interested.

Free food (don't panic nothing major)

My local even though it does not do food provides a bit of free grub at the end of the night on Saturdays and it is a great hit with the punters. Nothing major just a few sandwiches chips and cocktail sausages. Its just a small bonus for the person who stays till the death.

ardinn wrote: »

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons?

However at the end of the day Price is the main factor, People really don't have the spare money that they did 5 years ago and the pub trade really need to get to grips with that. If you can't offer a cheaper pint at least try by doing it other ways. A few nibbles on the bar or food at the end of the night. The price of splits are a disgrace. Change you baby splits for cans and at least the customer will get 2 - 3 shorts out of it and it's not too expensive to buy kids a drink. My pub does it for free with 2l coke or 7up. There is no reason pubs cannot give the customer a decent deal on minerals. I'd prefer to pay 2.50 for a 330ml can than 2.10 for a 150ml baby (or what ever it is) But don't take the piss on minerals.

and the vintners association should be lobbying against the drinks industry as hard as they lobby the gov. The price of Guinness is quite shocking in comparison to Beamish ... C&C is a disgrace with their pricing for Bulmers and you hear them complain about falling sales. The pub trade may not be to blame for the price of the pint but ye do sell it so ye have more power to influence than you realise. This obviously will take a huge concerted effort but what the hell do ye pay the Vintners Association for????

The day of sitting waiting for the trade to come to you is gone in all business and people have to go out of their way to attract people and this is the down fall of a lot of pubs they don't know how to look for business so I congratulate the OP and other pubs owners involved in this discussion just for being here

ardinn

TomD101 wrote: »

You haven't mentioned the most important part of the reason why the price of drink is so expensive in this country - excise tax. It is fairly simple, pubs will struggle until :

a) the economy gets back to the level it was 4 years ago (0% chance of happening

or

b) the price of drink, inclusive of tax, falls significantly ( slightly more chance of happening than a but still unlikely).

Unfortunately you are in an industry that has a very bleak outlook for the future. You will need to come up with some creative ideas to get customers in the door that will give you a competitive advantage over rival pubs in your area - otherwise the punters will stay at home with their cheap cans.

Yes I did!

ardinn wrote: »

I agree, but why should the price of cans go up? Im not trying to shoot myself in the foot but if you want to stay at home and drink thats up to you and you should'nt be penalised for it. Look at the 0.5% decrease in the recent budget that amounted to 15c in the price of a pint, Speaks volumes on the current tax situation.

ardinn

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

and the vintners association should be lobbying against the drinks industry as hard as they lobby the gov. The price of Guinness is quite shocking in comparison to Beamish ... C&C is a disgrace with their pricing for Bulmers and you hear them complain about falling sales.

The Vintners are lobbying against the drinks industry - VERY SUCCESSFULLY - And to prove it I will say that the cost of diageo products in England has risen 27% over the last 2 years an 0% in this country SOLELY based on the work done by the VFI.

Bulmers was, if you remember, a very cheap drink about 3 years ago, do you not remember the government targeting bulmers alone for increased vat - Bulmers pint bottles were cheaper than Large Guinneess/smithwicks/Mac and now they are over a € more.

ardinn

Over the course of this discussion I have heard about 100 different brands being mentioned, It would be absolute lunacy to think publicans can offer all these drinks and if we tried to offer at least 10 or 15 someone would come in and ask for the one you dont have.

My recommendation here to everyone would be, If you like a drink and would be more tempted to enter a premises if they stocked it, ask!!! Ask the person in charge to get it in! He is not (in these times) going to say no!! Guys for alot of the issues here I have said this - speak to your publican and im sure things you like in a pub that have gone can be brought back and drinks you would like to see on the shelves can be gotten. Drivers can be looked after and minerals be offered to them at reduced prices.

I am going to answer every post in this thread, But it's really busy! Must be a relevant issue with everyone. And im up the walls so give me time!

southsiderosie

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I'm not in the business so I am not qualified to make this remark it's just an opinion I am throwing out on the internet so feel free to shoot me down. But I think it sounds like your main competition is the off license, not the other pubs on the street. People who would like your pub are the type of people who are currently sitting at home drinking because they think all pubs are like the other five on the street. If you do renovate and become like the other pubs I'm sure that you will succeed in the short term, you can tempt folks away from the other five on the street to drink in your pub. Then again what happens when one of the other pubs does something different, the drinkers who pay for overpriced swill so that they can shout over music at each other are not the type to be loyal to one establishment. So you get into an arms race with the other pubs to attract the fickle drinkers.

Or you could go in the opposite direction, and become the local dive bar. Cheap cans, bucket beer specials, etc. The only bar that has continuously been in business in my parent's old neighborhood in Chicago basically did this - everyone else went trendy and expensive, and they went downmarket (well kind of by default; they just didn't really change much over 30 years) - they kept their older regulars, pulled in lots of students, and also pulled a weird variety of random geniuses and local "characters" (the bar is close to a university). Around 4pm, the construction workers come in off-shift, by 6pm the after-work crowd is there, and after 8-9 pm, the students show up. The local priests even used to have meetings there. It's kind of a neighborhood institution, basically because it's cheap, the barstaff are friendly, and although there are a lot of older men drinking in the front, and it is kind of like walking into a cave, it's not scary or uncomfortable for girls to drink there - which I suspect is the problem that a lot of "old-school" bars have.

IrishWhiskeyCha

ardinn wrote: »

Over the course of this discussion I have heard about 100 different brands being mentioned, It would be absolute lunacy to think publicans can offer all these drinks and if we tried to offer at least 10 or 15 someone would come in and ask for the one you dont have.

My recommendation here to everyone would be, If you like a drink and would be more tempted to enter a premises if they stocked it, ask!!! Ask the person in charge to get it in! He is not (in these times) going to say no!! Guys for alot of the issues here I have said this - speak to your publican and im sure things you like in a pub that have gone can be brought back and drinks you would like to see on the shelves can be gotten. Drivers can be looked after and minerals be offered to them at reduced prices.

I am going to answer every post in this thread, But it's really busy! Must be a relevant issue with everyone. And im up the walls so give me time!

Fair play and great reply. Can I ask a question and no need to say how much you pay but can a pub get a box of miller as cheap as say Dunnes sell it or do you have to pay a higher premium to your supplier.

ardinn wrote: »

The Vintners are lobbying against the drinks industry - VERY SUCCESSFULLY - And to prove it I will say that the cost of diageo products in England has risen 27% over the last 2 years an 0% in this country SOLELY based on the work done by the VFI.

But remember you a coming off 2 very different markets. The UK market was always been very competitive due to the multitude of breweries and comes from a very cheap price point. The Irish market has virtually 0 competition (in relation to the pint price) as the price of the pint is pretty standard and the price point was already exorbitant. The olny brewery offering any amount of decent pricing is Beamish. You are literally talking double the price at one stage so obviously there was room in the UK market to move but there is not in the Irish market.

ardinn wrote: »

Bulmers was, if you remember, a very cheap drink about 3 years ago, do you not remember the government targeting bulmers alone for increased vat - Bulmers pint bottles were cheaper than Large Guinneess/smithwicks/Mac and now they are over a € more.

Bottled Bulmers over the last 10 years has been the dearest drink in a pub. I don't drink it but I can remember when it was by far the cheapest pint and it was only available in a pint or half pint bottle. Basically the Pint bottle fell foul of that nasty corporate drinks industry new buzz word ... "premiumisation". Basically making a drink look good and whacking a higher margin on it.

All these issues may well be out of the Publicans control but as long as you look after you customer then hopefully they will respond. Sounds like you are really trying you best so good luck with it.

enda1

1. Pints are great, yes, but if you can't have a large range on tap, you can definitely have a large bottle range!
2. Provide a clear menu including prices for pints/halfs, bottles, wine, shots, mixers and dashes
3. Weekly special
4. Food. Whether it be small tapas, or proper cooked meals, at least try something.
5. Proper wine selection, by large bottle and glass. Choose quality over "range", and nothing thrown at you by Diagio or whomever!
6. Turn off the TV except for major sporting event. Manchester united v Derby in the league is not a major sporting event.
7. Charge an appropriate price, fine. But the level of service, cleanliness and toilets in [articular must match this price point!

For me the most important thing when choosing a pub is #1 - the choice of beer available. On tap is better but in bottle is a very acceptable alternative providing the glass is correct (read also NOT WARM!).

ardinn

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

Fair play and great reply s. Can I ask a question and no need to say how much you pay but can a pub get a box of miller as cheap as say Dunnes sell it or do you have to pay a higher premium to your supplier.

I am unable to buy miller at the price dunnes sell it at - God know how much they are paying for it!

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

But remember you a coming off 2 very different markets. The UK market was always been very competitive due to the multitude of breweries and comes from a very cheap price point. The Irish market has virtually 0 competition (in relation to the pint price) as the price of the pint is pretty standard and the price point was already exorbitant. The olny brewery offering any amount of decent pricing is Beamish. You are literally talking double the price at one stage so obviously there was room in the UK market to move but there is not in the Irish market.

Incorrect in relation to diageo products - the cost and increased costs are usually in line, Not the same price but increases in % terms would be on par. The point I was making was the comparison between the 2 and the vintners stopping these increases going ahead in Ireland.

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

Bottled Bulmers over the last 10 years has been the dearest drink in a pub. I don't drink it but I can remember when it was by far the cheapest pint and it was only available in a pint or half pint bottle. Basically the Pint bottle fell foul of that nasty corporate drinks industry new buzz word ... "premiumisation". Basically making a drink look good and whacking a higher margin on it.

All these issues may well be out of the Publicans control but as long as you look after you customer then hopefully they will respond. Sounds like you are really trying you best so good luck with it.

Maybe not 3 years but probably 5 - definately not 10 - After bulmers first massively successful year the government increased the duty on it. I remember it was a big point of discussion at the time. And it was very cheap compared to other brands.

ardinn

enda1 wrote: »

1. Pints are great, yes, but if you can't have a large range on tap, you can definitely have a large bottle range!
2. Provide a clear menu including prices for pints/halfs, bottles, wine, shots, mixers and dashes
3. Weekly special
4. Food. Whether it be small tapas, or proper cooked meals, at least try something.
5. Proper wine selection, by large bottle and glass. Choose quality over "range", and nothing thrown at you by Diagio or whomever!
6. Turn off the TV except for major sporting event. Manchester united v Derby in the league is not a major sporting event.
7. Charge an appropriate price, fine. But the level of service, cleanliness and toilets in [articular must match this price point!

For me the most important thing when choosing a pub is #1 - the choice of beer available. On tap is better but in bottle is a very acceptable alternative providing the glass is correct (read also NOT WARM!).

1. Bottles of craft beer have about 6 months on them before they expire, You would be suprised at how long it takes to sell 24 bottles of a new product into a local community, Making a menu with even 5 new bottles of beer would results in expired bottles, For smaller pubs anyway. But it is an option im probably going to try.

2. A price list is legally required on display at the entrance to every Pub.

3. Good Idea.

4. Most pubs now have to serve some sort of food. I think other than younger peoples trendy Bars and clubs most (or alot anyway) allready do!

5. Wine is good!

6. It is for Man Utd fans. And we would get between 10 - 20 regulars who enjoy watching football, who dont have sky sports, and who come out solely to watch the game. And im not turning off the telly when my Sky package costs me over €5.500.00 A year. (YES YOU DID HEAR THAT RIGHT)

7. Very true.

koHd

ardinn wrote: »

1. Bottles of craft beer have about 6 months on them before they expire, You would be suprised at how long it takes to sell 24 bottles of a new product into a local community, Making a menu with even 5 new bottles of beer would results in expired bottles, For smaller pubs anyway. But it is an option im probably going to try.

What about a slow phasing in of different bottled beers to see which catches on? Really play off the 'Beer of The Week' type thing. Kind of what Guinness and the like do when they try new brews and test them on the market for a period of time at set time periods for each different variation.

maybe have a recommendation box for locals to drop in a beer they want.

ardinn

koHd wrote: »

What about a slow phasing in of different bottled beers to see which catches on? Really play off the 'Beer of The Week' type thing. Kind of what Guinness and the like do when they try new brews and test them on the market for a period of time at set time periods for each different variation.

maybe have a recommendation box for locals to drop in a beer they want.

As I said I will probably do this - Phasing them in is the way to go - You should ask your publican to try this if they dont all-ready.

_blank_

Heroditas wrote: »

1. I'm not as old as I was

Want to let us in on the secret?

johnmcdnl

I'm a young lad... I used to love the pub til recently when I stopped having loads of money to go on the tear every weekend... I used to spend 50-60 euro a weekend drinking and then the pizza and the taxi home after added to this...

I just can't afford this sort of spending and it's not just me.. I'd love to go into a pub and just drink a few pints or maybe even a few bottles or whatever with a few lads... but when a bottle is gonna cost me 4.50 in some spots what am I supposed to do... I was once charged 8.50 for a southern comfort and coke in a nite club.. same drink cost 6.50 in the pub over the road... 500ml of southern comfort in tesco 22.99 as far as i know.. that's the underlying problem for any young person...

I can buy a naggin for 5 euro or a shoulder for 9-10 euro.. 1 drink any pub I'm in is gonna cost me 5 euro just like that... it's simple economics for any young person...



... and don't even get me started about those money grabbing pubs that charge you for the mixer as well... long live the bottle of coke on the bar

ldxo15wus6fpgm

I love the way the publicans are crying poverty and hardship - every single publican I know is absolutely f*cking loaded.
Example: guy in a nearby village recently bought his 18 year old son TWO flash cars - coming to a total of around €20K. He then rears his head on the radio claiming he's facing hard times and the rec***sion has affected his business badly.
What a complete load of toss.

ardinn

Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »

I love the way the publicans are crying poverty and hardship - every single publican I know is absolutely f*cking loaded.
Example: guy in a nearby village recently bought his 18 year old son TWO flash cars - coming to a total of around €20K. He then rears his head on the radio claiming he's facing hard times and the rec***sion has affected his business badly.
What a complete load of toss.

You must not know too many publicans. Regardless of what he bought his son from what money he had I doubt that he made it in the pub game, I would hazard a guess that this is not his only business. And no-one is crying poverty, just expressing that the industry is down and nearly 150,000 poeple depend on it for a living and that livelyhoods and jobs are being decimated all over the country. That figure was 210,000 3 years ago.

So on your other point you say that the recession is a load of toss, his business has not suffered badly, Implying it may have actually improved and the guy's pub is doing really well??

Thanks for the informed opinion.

the_syco

ardinn wrote: »

Soft drinks are too expensive, no arguments there. But on Many occasions people have come to me and said that a particular person is driving, can we sort him out, and I usually give 1 + 1 free. Im not making on the coke/7up whatever but there is people about having a pints and Im glad of the business, Has anyone ever tried doing this or am I just a soft touch??

Have you tried, instead of selling bottles, sell it by the glass? And by this, I mean "splash"? It'd be a shower head type tap with buttons on it for coke/7up/fanta/etc. Local pub had it when I was working there, and still has it. The price is a LOT less, and as the canisters are usually stored with the kegs in a chilled room, it's cold out of the tap.

ardinn wrote: »

E) + F) I think the problems with most staff is that they are not in a career job! Most bar staff are young students etc or working in between jobs for extra pocket money, Although proper training has a lot to do with it you will probably not see a higher staff turnover figure in the economy than pubs / hotels, and they don't care because they are not staying anyway! My guess is the best people you will find behind the bars are owners/career barmen and they are hard to find, However, a well run establishment will have even those who are not career catering people trained very well and to standard.

In said pub that I worked in, people were given hours, and thus stayed there longer. Most of the young bar staff who stayed for a few years started off as lounge staff, and became bar staff after a year or so, by which time they have gotten trained on a part time basis during the quite periods on how to be bar staff. Get local people who lived locally from birth, or a young age. These are more likely to stay local longer, and should they goto college, will most likely do so locally, and continue to work at your pub.

ardinn wrote: »

G) Well again nothing is cheap, a good beer garden or even nice deck area is going to cost a couple of grand to develop. The money just is not there for most at the minute.

I have to call bullsh|t on this. A good beer garden is table and chairs out the back of the pub. Sure, you can get epic beer gardens, but mostly they were gardens there before the smoking ban came in, and with a few tables became few good. Some pubs in Carlow have no such garden, and that's neither here nor there, but they did good for a number of years.

Now, however, it's not enough, so maybe you should look into seeing if you can make an unused backroom that has only a sheet of tar over the top into a smoking room? I think the Foundry in Carlow (or whatever it's called these days) did something along those lines with it's smoking room. Sure, it's not great, but it does the job.

/edit

ardinn wrote: »

O.k. but why would you go into a pub that you dont like?? (Loud Music, too hot) Go to one that suits you, (this is open for questioning as people go out to meet people and most people are in these places but I cant try and explain everything).

Sometimes the only pub with a decent pint has sh|te music. I know a few pubs who do well as they have a rep for good Guinness. It seems most pubs that do good Guinness do other pints well.

ardinn wrote: »

I was also wondering about the cans issue - I personally dont have an issue with it, but some older people see it as a sign of a poor establishment (rough etc)

This is one reason, albeit a small one. The main reason I'd say is ensuring the cans are bought in your pub, and not from the offie nearby (or your own). This, and recycling them (as opposed to washing the pint glasses).

ldxo15wus6fpgm

ardinn wrote: »

You must not know too many publicans. Regardless of what he bought his son from what money he had I doubt that he made it in the pub game, I would hazard a guess that this is not his only business. And no-one is crying poverty, just expressing that the industry is down and nearly 150,000 poeple depend on it for a living and that livelyhoods and jobs are being decimated all over the country. That figure was 210,000 3 years ago.

So on your other point you say that the recession is a load of toss, his business has not suffered badly, Implying it may have actually improved and the guy's pub is doing really well??

Thanks for the informed opinion.

I know 6. Might not be all that many but I'm out in the sticks.
This guy's only business is his pub; I know that because I know the son well.

No-one is crying poverty? Why is it that I am constantly subject to an earful, when listening to radio talkshows, about how publicans are suffering badly and they need to raise prices further?

I didn't say anything about the recession. I was talking about his milking of that word as an excuse so he can make even more money. I'm pretty damn certain he's doing really well, he himself bought a brand spanking new Merc. just last year. Now I don't know how you'd interpret that, but I'd take that as a sign that someone is doing well. As are all the publicans I know.

You're very welcome.

ardinn

the_syco wrote: »

Have you tried, instead of selling bottles, sell it by the glass? And by this, I mean "splash"? It'd be a shower head type tap with buttons on it for coke/7up/fanta/etc. Local pub had it when I was working there, and still has it. The price is a LOT less, and as the canisters are usually stored with the kegs in a chilled room, it's cold out of the tap.


In said pub that I worked in, people were given hours, and thus stayed there longer. Most of the young bar staff who stayed for a few years started off as lounge staff, and became bar staff after a year or so, by which time they have gotten trained on a part time basis during the quite periods on how to be bar staff. Get local people who lived locally from birth, or a young age. These are more likely to stay local longer, and should they goto college, will most likely do so locally, and continue to work at your pub.


I have to call bullsh|t on this. A good beer garden is table and chairs out the back of the pub. Sure, you can get epic beer gardens, but mostly they were gardens there before the smoking ban came in, and with a few tables became few good. Some pubs in Carlow have no such garden, and that's neither here nor there, but they did good for a number of years.

Now, however, it's not enough, so maybe you should look into seeing if you can make an unused backroom that has only a sheet of tar over the top into a smoking room? I think the Foundry in Carlow (or whatever it's called these days) did something along those lines with it's smoking room. Sure, it's not great, but it does the job.

Last week I had a meeting with 2 coca cola reps about the splash mechanism, They advised against it as, a) It's not much cheaper, b)it goes off very quickly and you would need to be selling very large quantities to justify it.

I would like to know how much less you know it was, as I was told directly from the horses mouth that it was not cheaper and this was my main reason for asking about it.


You will always find a few good staff that do stay but I was basing my statements on my experiences. I have worked in numerous hotels / pubs / clubs / and now own my own and this is what my experience tells me.

The foundry's smoking room cost over €20.000.00 - I worked there when it was being built. And the new cedar square has cost more so maybe you have not been there in a while but you should go as they are both worth seeing.

I was replying to a comment made by someone saying that they dont want to smoke on the street corner, A few tables out the back is fine but in order to do a proper comfortable job that complies with regulations and providess the facilities needed and shelter, because we do not have an attractive climate, It's going to cost whatever way you look at it.

ardinn

Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »

I know 6. Might not be all that many but I'm out in the sticks.
This guy's only business is his pub; I know that because I know the son well.

No-one is crying poverty? Why is it that I am constantly subject to an earful, when listening to radio talkshows, about how publicans are suffering badly and they need to raise prices further?

I didn't say anything about the recession.

Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »

He then rears his head on the radio claiming he's facing hard times and the rec***sion has affected his business badly.

I was talking about his milking of that word as an excuse so he can make even more money. I'm pretty damn certain he's doing really well, he himself bought a brand spanking new Merc. just last year. Now I don't know how you'd interpret that, but I'd take that as a sign that someone is doing well. As are all the publicans I know.

You're very welcome.

Well, Good for them then - I must find out where you live and open up shop there, seems brilliant.

Also can you tell me when you last heard a publican say they need to raise prices, And if he is a member of the VFI and has said this on the radio please also let me know. Publican across the country are screaming for the need to reduce prices, with the help of suppliers and the government!! Not raise them.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

ardinn wrote: »

Well, Good for them then - I must find out where you live and open up shop there, seems brilliant.

Also can you tell me when you last heard a publican say they need to raise prices, And if he is a member of the VFI and has said this on the radio please also let me know. Publican across the country are screaming for the need to reduce prices, with the help of suppliers and the government!! Not raise them.

All I've ever heard out of them is "we need to raise prices for this that and the other reason."

County Kerry, you're more than welcome to come down

Regarding this:

Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »

He then rears his head on the radio claiming he's facing hard times and the rec***sion has affected his business badly.
What a complete load of toss.

Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »

I didn't say anything about the recession. I was talking about his milking of that word as an excuse so he can make even more money. I'm pretty damn certain he's doing really well, he himself bought a brand spanking new Merc. just last year. Now I don't know how you'd interpret that, but I'd take that as a sign that someone is doing well. As are all the publicans I know.

This post by you:

ardinn wrote: »

So on your other point you say that the recession is a load of toss, his business has not suffered badly, Implying it may have actually improved and the guy's pub is doing really well??

Says that I'm calling the recession a load of toss. I'm not, I didn't comment on the recession. When I said "what a load of toss" I was referring to his whinging about it even though he is clearly rolling in cash, not the recession.

I didn't hear him say anything about the VFI however I wasn't paying too much attention; I just searched for him there on the site and he's not there so I would assume that means he's not a member.

EDIT: I'd just like to say that I'm not trying to be hostile here; maybe I just know a particularly lucky bunch of pub owners and most publicans ARE having hard times. However from my experiences so far with them I'd take everything publicans say with regards to money/the recession with a pinch of salt.

IrishWhiskeyCha

ardinn wrote: »

I am unable to buy miller at the price dunnes sell it at - God know how much they are paying for it!

That is what I guessed and I don't think the general population realise that. They just see bottled beer in pubs as €x and see bottled beer in supermarkets as €y per bottle and go ... :eek: So I feel for ye there.

ardinn wrote: »

Maybe not 3 years but probably 5 - definately not 10 - After bulmers first massively successful year the government increased the duty on it. I remember it was a big point of discussion at the time. And it was very cheap compared to other brands.

I think you'll find it was very popular much earlier than you realise.

And I don't want to come across as pedantic or to get into an arguement but Bulmers has been a bit of a bug bear for me for many years and what a rip off it was. Remember we're talking about Pint Bottles which used to be cheaper than any other draught pint in a glass. So this next rant is more of a point of order

I've been drinking in Pubs since the mid 80's. Bulmers was categorically the cheapest drink. When I started drinking it was £1.30 for a pint bottle while stout was £1.50 and larger £1.60. By the mid 90's I was horrified that when in rounds with people that drank Bulmers Pint Bottles it was €1 more expensive than the average pint larger never mind Stout. Further the duty on Cider and Beer was identical at 47c per pint in 2006(See Bottom Page 5). So it is only since 2007 or later that the Cider duty has exceeded beer. Also see that the explosion of Cider sales was 1996 - 2002 in the same page. It was in 2003 that the Duty on Alcopops were changed from the Wine duty to Spirit duty. While Cider was evened up against beer. However the Duty on Beer was 19.87Cents per litre while the Duty on Cider was 18.5 Cents per litre so there was very little difference when they were put on parity, Where as alcopops went from 16.5 cents to 39.25cents per litre.

This is not the publicans fault obviously but the issue I'm trying to highlight is the inflated prices charged by the brewing industry. It is not priced at a fair percentage but more priced at what the market will bare. This is obviously good business but what it does not do is ring fence you product against massive down turns like we have now. Basically the Bulmers total sales have dramatically fallen and they are finding it hard to deal with as they became dependent on their excessive profits. Then suddenly tey were able to offer a 10% price drop on bottled Bulmers.

southsiderosie

ardinn wrote: »

Last week I had a meeting with 2 coca cola reps about the splash mechanism, They advised against it as, a) It's not much cheaper, b)it goes off very quickly and you would need to be selling very large quantities to justify it.

I would like to know how much less you know it was, as I was told directly from the horses mouth that it was not cheaper and this was my main reason for asking about it.

What? Are you talking about the soda "gun" with the buttons on it? The per-unit cost of soda from a gun is WAAAAY below individual bottles or cans; the markup is huge. That's why McDonalds uses the machines (which essentially do the same thing), rather than hand out bottles of coke: the per-cup cost is less than 10 cents, and they sell it for $1.85. If your supplier is telling you it's more expensive, it's probably because they want you to keep buying bottles. MAYBE if it goes bad fast and you don't have high turnover of soda and juice then fine, but I have never worked in a bar or restaurant in the US that didn't use these. If I were you, I'd ask a different supplier.

ardinn

southsiderosie wrote: »

What? Are you talking about the soda "gun" with the buttons on it? The per-unit cost of soda from a gun is WAAAAY below individual bottles or cans; the markup is huge. That's why McDonalds uses the machines (which essentially do the same thing), rather than hand out bottles of coke: the per-cup cost is less than 10 cents, and they sell it for $1.85. If your supplier is telling you it's more expensive, it's probably because they want you to keep buying bottles. MAYBE if it goes bad fast and you don't have high turnover of soda and juice then fine, but I have never worked in a bar or restaurant in the US that didn't use these. If I were you, I'd ask a different supplier.

This was coca cola themselves. I was thinking that tho.

HavingCrack

Hey ardinn cheers for replying to my earlier post.

Just another thought-Dicey Riellys in Dublin is able to charge €2.50 for all pints on a Wednesday night so I'm wondering would this mean they're only breaking even or making a profit on their night? Granted they do charge a fiver in which obviosuly adds more money to the coffers but out of interest on a typical pint of Smithwicks for example whaty price would you have to charge to make a profit?

ardinn

They would be just breaking even cost wise probably losing out on running costs, But, if you take someone havin 5 pints at €2.50 then payin a fiver in you get to €3.50 a pint so it ok but nothing wild! Volume sales then account for the difference

the_syco

ardinn wrote: »

I would like to know how much less you know it was, as I was told directly from the horses mouth that it was not cheaper and this was my main reason for asking about it.

Haven't worked there in many a year, but around 2005 I think it cost €2 for a pint of coca cola. They didn't make much profit of it I think, as they preferred to sell the bottles, as they got more profit with them. I'd advise you to ask how much "not cheaper" it is, and how long it lasts. From working in a cinema for 14 months, I'm of the opinion that they use similar machinery. By this, I mean the splash probably comes from canisters of syrup mixed with whatever is mixed with it. I agree that it goes off quickly though. I think the life span on the canisters in the cinema were only a few months (more than four months, bu don't know by how many).

ardinn wrote: »

The foundry's smoking room cost over €20.000.00 - I worked there when it was being built.

I believe it, but I'd say with so many out of work, you'd probably get it built now at a far lower price.

ardinn wrote: »

And the new cedar square has cost more so maybe you have not been there in a while but you should go as they are both worth seeing.

Haven't been there for a while, but may check it out. Staying in the Otterholt, and drinking in Carlow can work out cheap enough.

ardinn wrote: »

It's going to cost whatever way you look at it.

Aye, no argument there. If you get a chance, check out the Ozone in Leixlip, and the smoking area there. It's... interesting to say the least. It probably cost a fair whack, but if it was done on a smaller scale in an attic, I'd say it'd be popular.

=-=

My "local" would be Fibbers. By this I mean I'd go there more often than a local pub in Leixlip, as they play the music I like, charge a fiver for a bottle of Koppaberg, and my mates can get jugs of drink for a tenner at times. The smoking area is also very well done: they compressed the storage area, and put a beer garden into it

Paparazzo

First of all, fair play ardinn for answering questions!
I think the beer of the week idea is great, beer of the month would probably be better to give people a chance. Saw it done in a few pubs in London and they were the beers I ordered. Put it on special and people will try it!

Soft drink prices piss everyone off. Usually you get a warm 200ml bottle off the shelf for close to €3. Surely the gun despensers talked about would at least give more shelf space, less time packing shelves, collecting and recycling bottles, give the customer a colder drink? If someone asks for a coke in a bar in england they get a big pint glass with ice full. In ireland, despite being more expensive gets a tiny bottle that's gone in 2 mouthfulls! Bars in england usually have a far better selection of bottled and draught beers too.

marceldesailly wrote: »

Choice of beers.
Draught:Coors light,Miller,Becks,Bavaria,Heineken,Carlsberg,Guinness,Cider.
Bottles: Coors light,Miller,Corona,Heineken,Cider

I think this list is probably representative of the majority of pubs, a sad fact i'd say.6 lagers that taste of nothing and a stout not much better. So I'll buy a nice bottle of beer...oh no I can't do that either!

If I'm going to a pub I expect to be able to buy a beer that tastes of something,or have a choice. It's pretty depressing walking to the bar and to be faced with the choice above. Is it not a bit depresing for the publican too?

Often wondered this, almost all the bottles are the same as what's on draught! Girls these days almost never drink half pints, they drink 33ml bottles (if they drink beer) which are usually more expensive than a pint!

EDIT: for about 12 years I went to the pub at least twice a week, now about once a month

Heroditas

Des wrote: »

Want to let us in on the secret?

Portrait in the attic

skelliser

My two cents:

Over the last twenty years we have seen a marked change in the irish pub for the worse. Aplace of atmosphere to a place of money hungry people.
Pubs and publicans are only interested in money, get them in, get the money and get them out.
Well sorry lads, ye have priced yourselfs outta the market!

Instead of addressing the problem you have only made it worse by going after the offies, first it was getting the gov to change the closing hours from 11 to 10 and now i hear calls to ban below cost selling.
I for one saw thru the offie closing time thing, in fact its made me more determined to get offie now and to search out that good priced pint.

Im sick of hearing publicans pissing and moaning about how there industry is suffering, so whats ur solution, i know, lets force people into pubs by curtailing offie and supermarket drink, get a grip!!

For instance, Last week i heard some member of the vintners on the radio saying they should relax the drink driving laws!! ffs!!

IrishWhiskeyCha

In all fairness it is not all black ad white and there are a lot of pubs suffering. City centre pubs in the likes of Dublin, Galway & Cork will in the most ride out the storm but fringe pubs and rural pubs are dying on their feet. These are the pubs that provide a service to a community. I feel for the original poster in ways but at the end of the day people only have so much to spend and unless you have something more to offer you may fall by the way side.
So I'll say it again fair play to OP for trying to be proactive.