What happened to the Pub??

THall04

Cheap supermarket drink should be banned!
Earlier in this thread ,somebody said they would drink an average of 14cans at a house party , when they'd never drink that much in a pub
That's not just bad for yer liver , but also for the anti-social behaviour it causes.
See the quote below from today's BBC website , as more and more people leave pubs and have house parties......anti-social behaviour and drunken violence is only going to get worse

"Stephen House, the chief constable of Strathclyde Police, told BBC Radio Scotland that an increasing trend of people buying cheap alcohol to drink at house parties rather than going to the pub was contributing to violent crime and anti-social behaviour.
He said: "We've seen a trend in the last few years of an increase in violence associated with drink parties and a move away from proper licensed premises.
"In fact over the weekend just gone we had 31 serious assaults across Strathclyde, only two of those were actually in licensed premises.
"We are seeing that licensed premises are actually better run and safer places to be than these house parties that can get out of control and go on for hours."

BeerNut

THall04 wrote: »

That's not just bad for yer liver , but also for the anti-social behaviour it causes.

Most of the anti-social behaviour I see happens on city centre streets, caused by people who have been drinking in licensed premises. Besides which, supermarkets are always going to sell booze cheaper than pubs. Making a can cost €2 instead of €1 isn't going to encourage anyone to buy a €4 pint instead.

Some copper wrote:

only two of those were actually in licensed premises.

Well duh! Can we have the figures for the streets outside the pubs, please?

THall04

Most of the anti-social behaviour I see happens in my housing estate between 10-11:30pm...and then again around 3am.
People getting pissed on cheap supermarket drink....then heading into town ,to a late bar/nightclub...for a couple of hours....then back to the house party ,until they drop down drunk.

In the centre of town (Waterford) I don't see as much goin on as thre're plenty of Gards around......but ye can never find a Garda when a gang of lads on the street are throwing cans into your garden or busting beer bottles on the side of your house

guildofevil

Hold on.
People get drunk in a pub and then get rowdy, it's the pubs fault?
People get drunk at home can cause trouble, it's the supermarkets fault?

Wrong. If someone gets drunk and starts causing trouble it's THEIR FAULT. Not the person who sold them the drink.

I drink. I buy in pubs and I buy off sales. I don't go out and cause trouble.

If antisocial behaviour is a problem, then we need to crack down on anti social behaviour, not interfere with legitimate businesses and their customers, most of whom are not out causing problems, no matter where they bought their booze or what they paid for it.

Saruman

+1 on that.

Brian CivilEng

Hear, hear guildofevil. The majority of people can enjoy a night out or pick up a slab of beer without causing trouble, why punish those because of the actions of the few.

It's a shame that Septemberfest was cancelled this year, I think that was a great advertisment for responsible drinking. Last year 30,000 people visited Farmleigh to sample many alcoholic beverages, some arriving as early as 11am. What followed was a relaxing afternoon where many people enjoyed themselves. If this can happen at an event where "shock, horror" the only reason people went there was to drink alcohol I think it shows that the problem is not the drink, it's the attitude of the drinkers.

Monkey61

I haven't had time to read through the whole thread,so sorry if I am repeating anything that has already been said.

I live in London now and the main thing that I missed when I moved was the pubs at home....but...after a couple of years here and a few trips back, a few things have jumped out at me as I find myself increasingly less happy with all of my favourite pubs when I go home.

The main one is the choice of drinks. I am a cider drinker and I will travel miles across the city I live in to go for a single pint of a decent cider - for which I will pay a premium. The selection is far better here (not everywhere, but I have figured out where to go) and I have counted up to 11 different ciders behind the bar in some pubs (ordinary pubs, not specialist ones) with 2 on tap. Even having one decent cider on tap makes such a change from the tooth stinging sugar buzz that is Bulmers.

Wine drinkers are also catered for to a much bigger extent. Your average pub here will have a wine list and will pour you a glass from a whole bottle as opposed to there just being one red, one white and maybe if you are in luck one rose in mini bottle form. Also,and this is one of my favourite things, most pubs will sell you wine by the bottle very reasonably, which I have never found in an Irish pub.

This means that I will have more reason to go to the pub than I would in Ireland. I would go myself with a book for a decent pint of cider on a quiet afternoon. I can share a bottle of wine with my girlfriend in a nice atmosphere - something very nice about having a bottle to drink at leisure rather than just glasses.

Loads of ales and different beers on tap too. I don't drink these usually, but just for the experience sometimes I would be tempted to have an interesting sounding foreign beer or a local ale with a friend, just to try something different.

Also pubs here seem to do their best to put on different and interesting nights out. Loads of interesting club/band nights take place in pubs. Decent jukeboxes too.

Food is also very reasonably priced in comparison to the drinks and there are far more options available.

the_syco

THall04 wrote: »

"In fact over the weekend just gone we had 31 serious assaults across Strathclyde, only two of those were actually in licensed premises.

In Ireland, all nightclubs close at the same time. Lots of drunks converge onto the streets, and fights happen. I wonder what are the stats for these fights?

=-=

I buy cheap supermarket drink. Why? Because it costs €24 for a 0.7L bottle of Southern Comfort in a local off license. At €4 a shot, it would probably cost over €80 in a pub.

Heroditas

guildofevil wrote: »

If antisocial behaviour is a problem, then we need to crack down on anti social behaviour, not interfere with legitimate businesses and their customers, most of whom are not out causing problems, no matter where they bought their booze or what they paid for it.

Hear hear!
We've had enough of the nanny-state mentality.

Schism

One of the biggest things for me is the staff and their attitude.

I wouldn't be in the pub all that often (2-3 times a month) but when I was out I've found recently that the pub we've been going to for the last few years doesn't seem to want our business. They were always rushing us when it got anyway close to closing time and a general lack of courteousness was shown at the counter.
On the last occasion we went to said pub I went to the bar at 23.10 and asked for a pint and some change for the pool table. I got the pint grand but was told there was no more games of pool to be had. For the love of god, a blind monkey would manage to finish a pint and play a game of pool in twenty minutes. And it wasn't like we were the last people lingering in the place either.

That might have just been an anomaly though, we've started going to a different place lately and it's much better, delighted with the service and all round general good humour shown by the staff.

Micky Mulligan

ardinn wrote: »

Look at the 0.5% decrease in the recent budget that amounted to 15c in the price of a pint, Speaks volumes on the current tax situation.

That decrease was at the cost price to publicans, what then happened was a joke as publican just took off 15cents a pint which in actual turn put up there GP margins, it was a complete joke what should of happened was about 40cents off a pint.

I love going to the pub but im fed up just getting the usual yellow fizz, i want beer with flavour and i want it to be Irish, theres plenty out there.

A pub i used to drink in(now closed) wondered why his business was going down the tubes, the "locals" ask him to stock a few different beers, fair enough he tried, i even seen him talking to a sales guy from an Irish craft brew company but he wasnt convinced and alsa he stuck to the usual muck on tap and went out of business. Maybe if publicans started listening to there customers and what they wanted they might not be here trying to save there business.

As for drinking cans in a pub, NO NO NO!! cans are for the uneducated who want to get hammered on the cheap. I tend to buy Irish craft beer from the offy in bottles at over €3 a bottle when i go to the pub it works out about €4 a pint or a touch more but not much difference, but what i get is a beer to sit and enjoy.

Davidth88

Coming from England

I miss proper beer.

However the average Irish pub is pretty good to be honest. At least you are not overrun here with chain pubs. Although Witherspoons have done a lot for prices in England , what they have done is helped kill the individual pub , where the owner's personality was stamped on the pub.

Where pubs here could improve, reduce the price of soft drinks for goodness sake. How can a white wine and soda be between 5-8 euro ?, paying 2 euro for a splash of soda which to be honest should be free.

Real beer would be nice, but how many pubs here know how to keep cask beer or how to clean lines etc ?

The prices in general , esp in central Dublin are just terrible , I was out not so long ago and was dragged into Temple Bar ( an area I normally avoid ) . 5.35 a pint for lager , that went up to 6 euro after 11 ( not that I stayed for more than one ! ) That cannot be justified on any scale to be honest.

recylingbin

What the hell are people going on about food for.
Proper pubs don't sell food.
Proper pubs have Guinness taps and a lager tap for the birds.
They also have bottled Ritz for the birds.

Unfortunately, modern society has become ghey beyond belief. These little faggy haircutted types will only drink something they've seen on tv. the birds want to drink wine because it's the IN drink this summer.

The problem isn't with the pubs, it's with how ghey society has become.

Hence why bars, not pubs, are doing good business.

/2c

_blank_

recylingbin wrote: »

What the hell are people going on about food for.
Proper pubs don't sell food.
Proper pubs have Guinness taps and a lager tap for the birds.
They also have bottled Ritz for the birds.

Unfortunately, modern society has become ghey beyond belief. These little faggy haircutted types will only drink something they've seen on tv. the birds want to drink wine because it's the IN drink this summer.

The problem isn't with the pubs, it's with how ghey society has become.

Hence why bars, not pubs, are doing good business.

/2c

Please, tone your language down or don't post in here again.

mayordenis

recylingbin wrote: »

crap

You're post wasn't even funny in an Al Murray pub landlord sort of way it was just stupid, pure stupid.

recylingbin

mayordenis wrote: »

You're post wasn't even funny in an Al Murray pub landlord sort of way it was just stupid, pure stupid.

Thanks for that. I'll certainly take on board the thoughts of the moderator of the WIT forum.

_blank_

recylingbin wrote: »

Thanks for that. I'll certainly take on board the thoughts of the moderator of the WIT forum.

Troll, banned

the beer revolu

Ok, how about a good pub experience:

Went to my local last night.
Had two bottles of Adnam's Innovation and one bottle of Schneiderweiss Original (Tap 7) - €15.
Sat at the bar, had good conversations-not drowned out by the eclectic music- with the server and some of the locals (none of whom happened to be Irish) and went home happy.
All good, but I guess I'm lucky to live near The Abbot's !!

Or:

A few nights ago I met some friends for drinks. I had 4 bottles of Weihenstephaner Dunkel, Mrs Beer had 2 drops of Knappogue Castle (as recommended by the owner) and had change from €28. Others in my company had wine (from a good selection of reasonably priced, well sourced bottles), Franziskaner Hefe and Beamish. A trad/bluegrass band played gently in one corner.
I guess I'm lucky to also live near The Corner House

MediaTank

Great thread with some interesting opinions. My €0.02:

Things I'd like to see
1) Choice - better beer, preferably Irish craft beer
2) Free wifi and newspapers woul be a big draw for me
3) Somewhere decent to smoke. Dublin city center bars are bad at this with a few exceptions, because I guess they do not have the space :mad:

Things I can do without
1) Loud music - can't talk
2) TV - On all the time in far too many pubs

zagmund

Sounds like some of the common points coming up here are -
1) choice - whether Irish (i.e. local) or foreign, alcoholic or non-alcoholic
2) value - not charging several € for a mixer or a dash for example
3) no loud music unless it happens to be a band, maybe
4) actual entertainment - whether it's a barman that's happy to natter away or something more structured - not every person turns up at a bar with a gang of friends

I think there's plenty of things to take into account here. One of the other things to note is that more than a few people have said they would travel a distance and pay a premium (are you listening there, publicans ?) to visit a pub that offered them some or all of these, particularly the choice element.

Regarding the cost element, I don't understand how this works to be honest. I've seen posts here before saying it would cost a publican a minimum of (say) €75 to put on an evenign meal, between a few hours salary for a chef, ingredients, etc . . . and then it's been broken down to a margin of (say) €1.25 a plate, so he has to sell 60 meals before he starts to break even. I can see how this would be a challenge starting from scratch alright. But the thing is . . . coffe shops do it, sandwich carts do it, other places do it and they *don't* have the advantage of being able to sell other high-margin stuff such as drinks, etc . . .

In terms of things like peanuts on the bar, believe it or not that would make a difference to quite a few people. Everyone appreciates something for free. If I have a choice between a bar where you get a pint or a bar where I can get a pint and a few nibbles I'm much more likely to go to the one with the nibbles. And if I go there and I like it, I'm much more likely to come back another day, and another.

It seems that quite often when the idea of changing the product in a bar is mentioned (sell good coffee, have chess sets, etc . . .) people come back and say "sure that would drive the regulars away, they like to come in and have their Guinness and watch the telly" - the point here is that there aren't enough regulars any more and the challenge is to find new types of regulars. I think it's safe to say that the days of old and the regulars of old are just gone. There are still some regulars, sure, but not enough to keep profits up.

I'm slightly associated with a sports club that has a bar. Every so often the committee reminds everyone that the bar isn't making much money and it would be a shame to lose it and it costs money, and so on. This, coming from a club that has maybe 150 members at senior level but over 400 at junior level. They're not making enough money on the bar from drinks sales, but they're also failing to realise (or capitalise on) the fact that their 400 junior members are a significant market. Hold an event for those 400 and they will bring a further 400 parents with them. Or they could (and do) stick with the view that this wouldn't sit well with the old fogeys in the club and so miss out on all this income. What I'm saying is - if the existing market isn't generating enough then publicans really need to see what else they can chase and think outside the box - don't start with the assumption that you must have 2 Guinness taps, 1 Heineken, 1 Budweiser, 1 other and sure look, we're out of counter space befre we even start. It's the wrong place to start from.

z

Saruman

zagmund wrote: »

It seems that quite often when the idea of changing the product in a bar is mentioned (sell good coffee, have chess sets, etc . . .) people come back and say "sure that would drive the regulars away, they like to come in and have their Guinness and watch the telly" - the point here is that there aren't enough regulars any more and the challenge is to find new types of regulars. I think it's safe to say that the days of old and the regulars of old are just gone. There are still some regulars, sure, but not enough to keep profits up.

That reminds me of a bar in Chicago. I can't think of the name of it but it had shelves of board games for people to take down and play.
Now I am sure some pieces will get lost etc but it is a good idea I think.

Playing Monopoly can be thirsty work

MediaTank

Saruman wrote: »

That reminds me of a bar in Chicago. I can't think of the name of it but it had shelves of board games for people to take down and play.
Now I am sure some pieces will get lost etc but it is a good idea I think.

Playing Monopoly can be thirsty work

Hogan's on Georges St in Dublin have chess boards, dominos etc.

Saruman

MediaTank wrote: »

Hogan's on Georges St in Dublin have chess boards, dominos etc.

Good to know thanks. I have been in there but never noticed them.

oblivious

Saruman wrote: »

Playing Monopoly can be thirsty work

Monopoly and drinking, now that's an interesting combination!!

Mini Driver

in terms of people causing hassle etc because of being too drunk the pubs really do have to take SOME responsibility for serving someone who is clearly already hammered!
Obviously there isnt a whole lot that they can do to stop someone being an idiot but you see it every night of the week some1 who is already well past it gets served time and time again and then is sent out onto the street i.e. no longer the pubs responsibility ...

catbear

Here's an interesting link that might add another dimension to the debate, demographics.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ei-ireland/Age-_distribution
Look at the bulge in the mid 00s compared to 2010, it moved on. Quiet simply the pub going demographic group, of which I am one, were at their social best from mid nineties to mid 00s. Now they're settled down, have children and visit the pub less.
It's inevitable that some pubs would be affected by this.

Paparazzo

MediaTank wrote: »

Hogan's on Georges St in Dublin have chess boards, dominos etc.

I was in a bar in England that had a giant wooden connect 4 and downfall games. Also had an L shaped pool table.
Gimmicks in pubs work!

TheDoc

Really interesting thread to read.

Have to say I havnt been going out as much as I used to, and I'm not missing it and I'm only 22. There is talk of gonig out after the match tonight and this is two contrasts in one day.

From around 3-4 till after the France game there will be drinking, football and a BBQ.

I've picked up 12 cans which cost me €16. 12 cans is a solid amount of drink i could pack away all day long , odds are I wont finish near 12 before going out, 7-9 is more reasonable.

Now lets talk about going into town. I'm bussing it in ( taxis are a rip) so €2.20.
I'm going to have to try find a bar, pub or club.
(usually never have problems at the door but that problem may arise)
Then I'm into the bar to pay between €5.50-€6 for a pint. : /

€16 gets me 12 cans
for €16 I can get about 3 pints in the pub?

I live i nthe Swords area, and havnt gone local in a long time, the very rare occasion might have a few for a footie match, but theres no attraction what so ever.

Pricing is the major issue. Some places are ok to go to, but paying €5-6 euro a pint is a bit shocking tbh. I'd consider " a few scoops" to be about 4 pints with my mates, thats €20 down the swanny after work or footie or whatever.

Theres just no appeal anymore really, and im only a young lad, and my group of friends are very much the same. This summer will be a big downturn in our going out, most of the guys head out 2-3 times a week.

This summer, more so then previous, will be house parties and backgardens for home made entertainment.

I also wouldnt target "raising" the price of out of pub alcohol the solution to getting us back in. The main reason why people arnt heading down to the local is cause they realise how much they can save with grabbing cans from the Tesco, garrage or whatever the case may be.

Need to find a way to lower your overheads, bring your prices down, or things willl just get slower.

It is absolutely dead in my area even at peak nights, so much so the paddy wagons arnt bothering hanging on the street anymore

wonton

my local bar has a dart board, chess set, , two pool tables and a juke box downstairs, decent smoking area with cover and heating, a nice choice of beers galway hooker,cuirim,oharas along with the usual tap beers and some other bottles, the owner has also ordered in cases of beer that we requested, there is also an off-licence, serves food and often gives free food to regulers, drives customers home some times, he often buys new papers for customers.even had a customers appreciation night for regulars getting 3 free pints each...



and this pub still struggles for business, i dont think anything will make a huge difference for people the'd just get used to it and not appreciate it after a while

enda1

wonton wrote: »

my local bar has a dart board, chess set, , two pool tables and a juke box downstairs, decent smoking area with cover and heating, a nice choice of beers galway hooker,cuirim,oharas along with the usual tap beers and some other bottles, the owner has also ordered in cases of beer that we requested, there is also an off-licence, serves food and often gives free food to regulers, drives customers home some times, he often buys new papers for customers.even had a customers appreciation night for regulars getting 3 free pints each...



and this pub still struggles for business, i dont think anything will make a huge difference for people the'd just get used to it and not appreciate it after a while

That's very sad to hear actually.

Any other reasons you can think why he's failing?
Are prices too high, location bad, town/village particularly badly hit in terms of population decline/unemployment?
Is there too much competition?
etc...