What happened to the Pub??

Degag

koHd wrote: »

I know prices are where they are because of costs involved. What are the costs? Tax? Staff? Premises?

There are so many costs involved with running a pub. I don't even know where to start tbh.

Regarding people saying that pubs should have more choice: It's great going into a bar and seeing a good choice but from my experience in the pub i work in, we have trouble selling mainstream brands of kegs of Bud and Smithwicks let alone any of the less well known brands if we ever got them in. There isn't much of a point in getting other brands in if we only really sell Guinness, Heineken, Harp and Carlsberg....

the beer revolu

Degag wrote: »

There are so many costs involved with running a pub. I don't even know where to start tbh.

Regarding people saying that pubs should have more choice: It's great going into a bar and seeing a good choice but from my experience in the pub i work in, we have trouble selling mainstream brands of kegs of Bud and Smithwicks let alone any of the less well known brands if we ever got them in. There isn't much of a point in getting other brands in if we only really sell Guinness, Heineken, Harp and Carlsberg....

How can you sell other products if you don't stock them and advertise them??

Maybe niche kegs of beer wouldn't be a goer in many pubs.
But what about bottles?
Most wholesalers selling niche beers will offer a full refund on any beer you can't sell. There really is nothing to loose.
However, putting 3 foreign lagers in the fridge does not cut it.
You must have a few different styles and you must let people know you have them and not charge through the roof for them cause they're 'fancy'.

wonton

enda1 wrote: »

That's very sad to hear actually.

Any other reasons you can think why he's failing?
Are prices too high, location bad, town/village particularly badly hit in terms of population decline/unemployment?
Is there too much competition?
etc...

prices are grand 3.35 oharas ,3.55 fosters ,cuirim,3.95 smithticks,guiness

4.50 for the carlsberg,bud,heinkens

not an excellent location but still should be doing better, growing population in area but most are immigrants that prob wouldnt go pub. unemployment prob not that much an issue. has a bit of an old man bar reputation though so kinda struggles with the younger crowd, my auntie and uncle have been drinkin there 30 years.

was in there one friday nite a month ago and it was just me and my
mate....

the beer revolu

wonton wrote: »

prices are grand 3.35 oharas ,3.55 fosters ,cuirim,3.95 smithticks,guiness

4.50 for the carlsberg,bud,heinkens

not an excellent location but still should be doing better, growing population in area but most are immigrants that prob wouldnt go pub. unemployment prob not that much an issue. has a bit of an old man bar reputation though so kinda struggles with the younger crowd, my auntie and uncle have been drinkin there 30 years.

was in there one friday nite a month ago and it was just me and my
mate....

It is sad to hear of a pub that is actually trying to improve their business in a good way failing.

enda1

the beer revolu wrote: »

It is sad to hear of a pub that is actually trying to improve their business in a good way failing.

Too true.

What's the pub wonton? Looking at your location I think Dublin, looking at the prices, I think not...

wonton

Its dublin but its not in town

Thundercats Ho

Degag wrote: »

There isn't much of a point in getting other brands in if we only really sell Guinness, Heineken, Harp and Carlsberg....

Every time i go into a bar in my town (Carlow), i always ask do they sell any of the local beer (Curim, O Haras).
At best i've been told that the reason they don't stock it, is because no-one asks for it. Cue the blank expression when i say, well i've jut asked for it, and do so every time i come here.
At worst, they don't even know that there's a local beer company at all.

Saruman

wonton wrote: »

Its dublin but its not in town

It's not the Lucan county by any chance?

guildofevil

Are people in the locality aware of facilities available in this pub? I know that if a pub in my area had decent beer and nice food I would become a regular. Add a pool table, dart board and a landlord who values his customers and it would be the pub I call "the local" in no time.

But this could only happen if I knew it was there and that it had all of this wonderful stuff. There's a quite a few pubs in my neighbourhood that I have not entered in years, simply because they only offer macro beers and chairs to sit on. If they added a Galway hooker tap, food and a pool table, how would I know?

Maybe pushing a few hundred leaflets through a few hundred doors would get the place filling up.

tony33

I have to say i miss the pub,

its just not worth the hastle anymore, there are lots of reasons.
1- revenge, i know its a strange one - but i have zero sympathy for the publicans of ireland and especially in dublin where i live. back in the early 90,s in my 20s my friends and i would get a bus or taxi into town on a friday or sat night with plenty of money in my pocket, i would be well dressed as would my friends. There were numerous nights when we would be refused from every single bar we went to in the city centre for absolutely no reason. we would end up just going home. why wasnt my money anygood. the publicans were so up themselves and were making so much money that they put a brainless thug in a monkey suit on the door to filter out random people.
well if you didnt want my money then - you aint gettin it now.
2- the cost - do publicans think we never leave ireland. spain for example, go to a bar in any tourist destination and you get invited in to a bar ( not have to grovel to a bouncer) up to the bar - hi guys what would you like, 2 bottles of corona please- there ya go 4 euro please and heres a free shot.
in ireland you get ripped off, you get attitude from staff and owners. i have never heard " on the house" used in ireland and i have heard it in every single other country ive been in, especially in usa.
3- smoking ban. ill never admit to it being a good idea.
ok so its here a few years now and we have to deal with it. how ?
a pack of bensons please barman- there you go , 8 euro. now get outa here with them and smoke out in the rain with all the other rejects. and while your out there im gonna empty out your 3/4 full pint cause i thaught you had left.

publicans, you need to earn your clients now, and when you earn them learn how to keep them.

Fall_Guy

wonton wrote: »

prices are grand 3.35 oharas ,3.55 fosters ,cuirim,3.95 smithticks,guiness

4.50 for the carlsberg,bud,heinkens

not an excellent location but still should be doing better, growing population in area but most are immigrants that prob wouldnt go pub. unemployment prob not that much an issue. has a bit of an old man bar reputation though so kinda struggles with the younger crowd, my auntie and uncle have been drinkin there 30 years.

was in there one friday nite a month ago and it was just me and my
mate....

What's the name of the pub, Wonton? it sounds like the sort of pub that could use (and deserves) a bit of free advertisement! If it was anywhere near me I'd definitely drop in, 3.35 for a pint of O'Hara's is great value!

Saruman

Also need to make sure we have it on the ICB list of pubs that serve Irish Craft Beer, probably is but need to make sure.

_blank_

maybe the guy posting doesn't want to reveal his location.

Degag

tony33 wrote: »

I have to say i miss the pub,

its just not worth the hastle anymore, there are lots of reasons.
1- revenge, i know its a strange one - but i have zero sympathy for the publicans of ireland and especially in dublin where i live. back in the early 90,s in my 20s my friends and i would get a bus or taxi into town on a friday or sat night with plenty of money in my pocket, i would be well dressed as would my friends. There were numerous nights when we would be refused from every single bar we went to in the city centre for absolutely no reason. we would end up just going home. why wasnt my money anygood. the publicans were so up themselves and were making so much money that they put a brainless thug in a monkey suit on the door to filter out random people.
well if you didnt want my money then - you aint gettin it now.

That's terrible and publicans with that approach deserve to go out of business. But for every 1 landlord like that, there are probably 10 good ones.

2- the cost - do publicans think we never leave ireland. spain for example, go to a bar in any tourist destination and you get invited in to a bar ( not have to grovel to a bouncer) up to the bar - hi guys what would you like, 2 bottles of corona please- there ya go 4 euro please and heres a free shot.
in ireland you get ripped off, you get attitude from staff and owners. i have never heard " on the house" used in ireland and i have heard it in every single other country ive been in, especially in usa.

Well, first of all, USA and Spain are totally different than Ireland. They don't have anywhere close to the level of overheads that publicans have in Ireland, the drink is alot cheaper to buy in and staff costs are tiny compared to here because of the tipping culture. I was offered a job in a friends pub in Manhatten last year and was told i'd make about $200 in wages but probably $1200 in tips. Some prices, especially in urban areas are ridiculous but in my local a pint is €3.60 - very reasonable - and it's the same in alot of - albeit rural - pubs. You also get the odd prickish barman or owner, but tell me a trade where you don't?

3- smoking ban. ill never admit to it being a good idea.
ok so its here a few years now and we have to deal with it. how ?
a pack of bensons please barman- there you go , 8 euro. now get outa here with them and smoke out in the rain with all the other rejects. and while your out there im gonna empty out your 3/4 full pint cause i thaught you had left.

publicans, you need to earn your clients now, and when you earn them learn how to keep them.

You can't blame the publican's for this. They did not bring the rule in and in fact most of them were against it. Alot of pubs provide very good smoking areas for it's patrons with heating etc. Some i've seen with tvs!
Also, yeah, get your own fags!

Starburst85

The price of drink in a pub compared to a night's drinking at home...

The price of admission to get into a club....think the average price at the mo is €15 for most places....

You have to pay to hang your coat....some pubs make you hang your coat up...

Taxi fare in and taxi fare home....

enda1

The myth about Ireland being a complete rip-off for pub draft has really got to stop.

A 25cl beer in Madrid is easily 2 euro, 2.50, 3 euro.
This compares to Dublin's 4-6 euro range for a pint.

In Paris its like starting at 3 euro going to 5, which is more expensive than Dublin.

London has a bigger range, from about 3.50 to 6 pounds a pint, so not a big difference, but I'd say on average a bit more expensive.

Countryside bar in France is like 2 euro a 25cl so still over 4 euro a pint.

I don't really get this attitude that Ireland is soooooo expensive to drink out in. The real problem with drink prices comes when ye look at the price of a 33cl bottle which in Ireland is shocking admittedly.

People seem to use the British megapubs and chain bars like Weatherspoons as the comparison of prices to show why Ireland is so expensive. There you can get pints for around £2.

At this bottom end of the market is perhaps where Ireland lacks competition, however be careful about wishing for the chain bar prices because then it might actually bring the chain bars!!

Yuck.

_blank_

But Weatherspoons has;

a. a great choice of beer available, both on tap and bottled, and it's not expensive (~£2.50 for a bottle of Leffe Blonde, what price is that in the B&C? over a fiver)

b. no TV or loud music constantly on

c. decent(-ish) food. While it may not be gourmet dining, some of the food I've had in some Weatherspoons is better than the fare served up in Irish establishments.

d. splash mxers

All of these things are things that people have mentioned as being things that would attract them back into pubs here in Ireland.

I certainly think there is a type of snobbery attached to people's attitude to the likes of Weatherspoons.

BeerNut

enda1 wrote: »

There you can get pints for around £2.

Half that, in fact. But I take your point otherwise.

enda1 wrote: »

it might actually bring the chain bars!!
Yuck.

You don't have to drink in them. And it might make your local classier, for one thing.

Des wrote: »

I certainly think there is a type of snobbery attached to people's attitude to the likes of Weatherspoons.

True. And then you go to the Bridge House in Belfast and realise that sometimes it's very justified indeed.

Degag

Des wrote: »

But Weatherspoons has;

a. a great choice of beer available, both on tap and bottled, and it's not expensive (~£2.50 for a bottle of Leffe Blonde, what price is that in the B&C? over a fiver)

b. no TV or loud music constantly on

c. decent(-ish) food. While it may not be gourmet dining, some of the food I've had in some Weatherspoons is better than the fare served up in Irish establishments.

d. splash mxers

All of these things are things that people have mentioned as being things that would attract them back into pubs here in Ireland.

I certainly think there is a type of snobbery attached to people's attitude to the likes of Weatherspoons.

Weatherspoons is such a massive company in England they can afford to do everything cheaper due to economies of scale. I'm not against it, i've been in their pubs plenty of times and enjoyed myself but to compare them to a stand-alone pub is a bit out of sync.

tony33

To degag

For every 1 bad publican there are 10 good - i totally agree, but thats today and thats because they have to be .

Im talkin about the boom years 95-05,

picture this - im no scumbag, ive always worked hard and dressed well.never in trouble with the law and not from a rough area. working class basically. now, i can understand a guy getting refused for wearing white trainers ect.

To be treated like a low-life and to be refused entry into a bar (not a nightclub) just because the bouncer doesnt like the look of you is sick. if i had been from the travelling community or black i could have sued 100,s of places.

People dont forget stuff like that. I feel the pubs have gotten what they deserve

Degag

tony33 wrote: »

To degag

For every 1 bad publican there are 10 good - i totally agree, but thats today and thats because they have to be .

Im talkin about the boom years 95-05,

picture this - im no scumbag, ive always worked hard and dressed well.never in trouble with the law and not from a rough area. working class basically. now, i can understand a guy getting refused for wearing white trainers ect.

To be treated like a low-life and to be refused entry into a bar (not a nightclub) just because the bouncer doesnt like the look of you is sick. if i had been from the travelling community or black i could have sued 100,s of places.

People dont forget stuff like that. I feel the pubs have gotten what they deserve

I agree with you totally and as i said, it's these establishments that deserve to go out of business.

IrishWhiskeyCha

Degag wrote: »

Weatherspoons is such a massive company in England they can afford to do everything cheaper due to economies of scale. I'm not against it, i've been in their pubs plenty of times and enjoyed myself but to compare them to a stand-alone pub is a bit out of sync.

That is also amisrepresented point

What you are forgetting is that every pub in Ireland combined is like one big Weatherspoons as they all serve the same muck and it is all supplied by a hand full of suppliers. So technically the regular beers should be cheaper as they sell it by the tanker load.

In england (UK) you have a multitude of suppliers/brewerys which compete against each other. Here we have zero competition but it is due more to Irish peoples drinking habits rather than anything else.

The biggest problem to price and choice is peoples unwillingness to try different beers. Bulmers is point in case ... I hate the stuff but cannot get a drier substitute for love nor money if I want it.

Dermo

I am 25, and I love going to the pub. I actually prefer a quiet put with friendly chatty bar staff and a good pint of Guinness. My friend and I have even gone to the point of creating google maps of our adventures.
eg. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108716276438621786007.00045768fb5b79d09eca9&ll=53.32103,-6.250534&spn=0.096181,0.308647&z=12

But I am finding myself staying at home more and more every week. My favourite drink is Guinness from the tap, I don't like the stuff from bottles or cans. If I'm drinking at home or at a friends I will travel a good 20 minutes to get to a nice off license that has a range of beers (Redmonds of Ranelagh or Deveney's of Rathmines/Dundrum).

The main reasons I don't find myself in pubs anymore is probably my friends. And their reasons would be

A) The price. A lot of my friends are still students, unemployed, working part time or struggling with bills. The difference in price is just too great.

The different type of drinks. My friend and I who created that map set ourselves a challenge a few years ago, to drink every type of beer that the Bull & Castle has. This was back when they had the old menu with twice the amount of beers as it does now. We brought along the rest of our friends and the Bull & Castle got a lot of business from us over the course of nearly a year. It's not just home/craft brewed beers that I like to see in bars, most bars don't even have a good selection of wines. Simple cocktail specials is also a very attractive thing for customers and they can be very cheap. Cocktails are something that the off licenses can't really beat you on.

C) The atmosphere can sometimes be downright ****. Music too loud, too many tvs. Every bar should have a quieter section so people can actually talk. I know every bar isn't big enough to have tvs in one section, music in another, people talking in another, this is mainly a problem with the bigger bars.

D) The range of activities you can actually do in a bar. Where is the variety? If possible have pool/darts/hoops. I've seen bars in other countries that have basketball hoops! There should always be decks of cards available to the customers. Every Sunday my gang of friends goes to the 51 on Haddington Rd and plays obscure card games because the tvs aren't too loud and everyone is friendly at that specific time. Some bars are showing movies now which is a fantastic idea if you have room for it.

the beer revolu

Vintners Association Emergency Meeting:

"we're in trouble, sales are falling rapidly, what will we do?!"

" I know! Raise the prices!"

"Genius!!"

enda1

Des wrote: »

But Weatherspoons has;

a. a great choice of beer available, both on tap and bottled, and it's not expensive (~£2.50 for a bottle of Leffe Blonde, what price is that in the B&C? over a fiver)

b. no TV or loud music constantly on

c. decent(-ish) food. While it may not be gourmet dining, some of the food I've had in some Weatherspoons is better than the fare served up in Irish establishments.

d. splash mxers

All of these things are things that people have mentioned as being things that would attract them back into pubs here in Ireland.

I certainly think there is a type of snobbery attached to people's attitude to the likes of Weatherspoons.

I understand that for some people it may be brand snobbery or something but for me its just a disdain of monotony in my experiences.

I don't like the idea or execution of chain culture when it comes to "experience" activities. I accept it for practical activities like shopping (to an extent), travelling (just the plane, not the hotel) etc. but not for the likes of cáfe, restaurant or bar,

That's just me but I find the concept horrible and tasteless without soul or charm...

Weatherspoons is the RyanAir of pubs, so any costs that can be cut, will be but and any extravagances too. I guess that's why music and tv aren't there (cost money) and reduce the sameness of the experience.

Its not for me. If I want to go to the same place every weekend, where I will have the same experience, I will go to my sitting room.

As BeerNut mentioned though, they are great in the fact that they have shaken the market in England by completely undercutting the market and forcing change. That is definitely a positive!

Degag

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

That is also amisrepresented point

What you are forgetting is that every pub in Ireland combined is like one big Weatherspoons as they all serve the same muck and it is all supplied by a hand full of suppliers. So technically the regular beers should be cheaper as they sell it by the tanker load.

In england (UK) you have a multitude of suppliers/brewerys which compete against each other. Here we have zero competition but it is due more to Irish peoples drinking habits rather than anything else.

The biggest problem to price and choice is peoples unwillingness to try different beers. Bulmers is point in case ... I hate the stuff but cannot get a drier substitute for love nor money if I want it.

No, Weatherspoons is a company which has close to a thousand pubs accross the UK. Like other massive companies such as Tesco they are able to bulk buy in massive quantities and hence get their products at a much cheaper price than normal. They are then able to charge much less than normal as a result. This is fundamentally different to what you are saying.

Every pub in Ireland is not combined because they are owned by different people - obviously. I see what you are trying to say but business does not work like that!

rockdrummer4

Cinema Ticket for 2 - €20 + Snacks could come close to €50 (yes it does, I often go and usually in the €45 range for me and the missus)

Bowling for 2 for one Hour - €40


What? €30 for snacks !! bloody ell what are you eating? While the more stingy of us would go to a shop and spend maybe 2 - 3 euro each !! So realistically that would be 25 - 30 for 2 people, which would not get you far in a pub €20 each for bowling, I think thats a bit expensive, more like a tenner each !

Degag

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

Cinema Ticket for 2 - €20 + Snacks could come close to €50 (yes it does, I often go and usually in the €45 range for me and the missus)

Bowling for 2 for one Hour - €40


What? €30 for snacks !! bloody ell what are you eating? While the more stingy of us would go to a shop and spend maybe 2 - 3 euro each !! So realistically that would be 25 - 30 for 2 people, which would not get you far in a pub €20 each for bowling, I think thats a bit expensive, more like a tenner each !

Why not go into the offy and stock up on cans and bring them into the pub with you? Same difference.

From experience, Entry to the cinema, medium popcorn and drink *2 = not much change from €40. And that's a pretty small local cinema.

_blank_

Degag wrote: »

Why not go into the offy and stock up on cans and bring them into the pub with you? Same difference..

it's against the law to consume off-sales in the pub, no?

anyway, you'd be turfed out one way or another.

Degag wrote: »

From experience, Entry to the cinema, medium popcorn and drink *2 = not much change from €40. And that's a pretty small local cinema.

I bring my own food to the cinema, if I intend to eat at all.

Usually though, I go to the cinema in the evening, after my dinner, I don't need to eat a large popcorn to myself, plus drink a large drink.

If we were to get food in the cinema, it would be a large popcorn & drink between us. It's normally called a "Couples Deal" or some such, and costs just over a tenner.

Any couple spending the guts of forty quid on cinema food are fat bastards imo. that would be two large popcorns, two large drinks, ice cream x 2, nachos and a packet of minstrels. How can anyone eat that amount in ~2hours and still watch the film :eek:

rockdrummer4

Degag wrote: »

Why not go into the offy and stock up on cans and bring them into the pub with you? Same difference.

From experience, Entry to the cinema, medium popcorn and drink *2 = not much change from €40. And that's a pretty small local cinema.

Come on its a bit different !! Dont be stupid now. You dont have to buy your snacks at the cinema if you dont want to, if you want to be ripped off then do so by all means...... however you cant bring cans into a pub !!