What happened to the Pub??

brianthebard

Degag wrote: »

Why not go into the offy and stock up on cans and bring them into the pub with you? Same difference.

Cause you'll get kicked out obviously! I agree with most people here, the majority of pubs are too loud, too expensive and not welcoming or worthwhile as a venue. The bierhaus in Galway is a nice pub in theory but ruins itself with the ultra loud music, and the salthouse is decent but it charges about twice the price for the fancy beers which are on sale in the offy around the corner. I realise there are extra costs etc for a pub I don't think they're all necessarily out to gut the customer, but I think its clear that the customer by and large doesn't want to know about those extra costs.

Des wrote: »

Any couple spending the guts of forty quid on cinema food are fat bastards imo. that would be two large popcorns, two large drinks, ice cream x 2, nachos and a packet of minstrels. How can anyone eat that amount in ~2hours and still watch the film :eek:

If you were getting a large pick and mix each you could spend that much but you'd have to be trying imo. I have to cut down on the delicious fudge from now on, pocket won't allow it.

IrishWhiskeyCha

Degag wrote: »

No, Weatherspoons is a company which has close to a thousand pubs accross the UK. Like other massive companies such as Tesco they are able to bulk buy in massive quantities and hence get their products at a much cheaper price than normal. They are then able to charge much less than normal as a result. This is fundamentally different to what you are saying.

Every pub in Ireland is not combined because they are owned by different people - obviously. I see what you are trying to say but business does not work like that!

And I see what you are saying but the point with Weatherspoons is that they would not need to buy in bulk and sell cheap if there was no competition. I will still reiterate in Ireland there is no competition and as long as the big 2 brewerys call the shots nothing will change. This is because Irish people are unwilling to try other products and staunchly stick to their brand.

Also every pub in Ireland could have the power of a Weatherspoons if only the Vitners association had the balls to put it up to the Diageo (Guinness, Carlesburg, Harp, Tuborg ... et al) and Heineken (Heineken, Beamish, Coors, Fosters, Murphy's) rather than cry about high tax, falling custom, overheads etc ... it's like a broken record they are un willing to fix.

Of course the English single pup would have major issues with the likes of Weatherspoons

rubadub

Degag wrote: »

Regarding people saying that pubs should have more choice: It's great going into a bar and seeing a good choice but from my experience in the pub i work in, we have trouble selling mainstream brands of kegs of Bud and Smithwicks let alone any of the less well known brands if we ever got them in. There isn't much of a point in getting other brands in if we only really sell Guinness, Heineken, Harp and Carlsberg....

This makes no sense to me at all, since every off licence I have ever been in has a better selection than pubs do, they obviously do sell stock. People are not insisting on kegged beer here, I expect many would actually prefer to get it from a bottle. I know a guy who drinks bass but will not get it in many pubs on draught since he knows it is not popular and is probably lying in the pipes for weeks. My local has erdinger NA in bottles, but not normal erdinger!

I still do not accept these comparisons to cinemas, they are exaggerated to attempt to prove a point. I never understood the fascination with eating in cinemas, do these people eat at concerts too? if not why not?

As I said before I do not think pubs have gotten overly expensive, it is that off licences are so much cheaper, I have seen up to 9 times cheaper, but typically 4-5times. My cheap £1 can 15 years ago was €1.27 so should be ~€2+ today with inflation. Yet there is quite a selection of cans for €1 still.

Bottles of bud/heineken/miller etc were £1.30/€1.65 so should be ~€2.50+ with inflation, yet are always available €1 now, I have gotten heinekens as low as 64cent per bottle with offers on crates.

Pubs do nothing special, it is not like a restaurant where a chef will make a better meal from the same ingredients. An analogy would be chippers who have a sit down section in them, they charge maybe 50% more for the sit down service, if they charged 4-9times more and a chipper owner came on here asking why nobody went to that section he would be ridiculed. I cannot understand how anybody could be so utterly in denial of this most obvious fact. Head in the sand...

People have the big TV at home now, they have blu-rays etc. When I was in my teens & early 20's I lived at home so went to the pub friday & saturday to get out of the house, drink costed twice as much in the pub then, if there was a "free house" we would always go to it to save money and for a change. As others have said there is the bouncer factor. Most of my mates houses would have better facilities than the local, better TV etc. A better question might be why people bother with pubs at all, it is blatantly obvious to me why people would not go as much. The OP was a young guy himself, surely his mates must drink at home a fair bit and it would be obvious enough why.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

the salthouse is decent but it charges about twice the price for the fancy beers which are on sale in the offy around the corner.

I know! I've been in restaurants in Galway where a steak was about ten times what it costs in Dunnes. FFS!

The Salt House has several taps pouring things you can't get in any offy. That's the main reason I go there.

brianthebard

BeerNut wrote: »

I know! I've been in restaurants in Galway where a steak was about ten times what it costs in Dunnes. FFS!

The Salt House has several taps pouring things you can't get in any offy. That's the main reason I go there.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic.....But my point was basically that sierra nevada in the salt house is not a better or more special experience than the same bottle from harvest. I don't have as much of a problem paying for a pint of oyster stout or something else that you won't get anywhere else, but I feel jipped paying twice the price of something I can get around the corner.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

But my point was basically that sierra nevada in the salt house is not a better or more special experience than the same bottle from harvest ... I feel jipped paying twice the price of something I can get around the corner.

I totally agree with you. But if you aren't being forced into buying it I really don't see why you're complaining about it or how you're being jipped. The pub, for obvious reasons cannot sell you that bottle for the same price as the offy. If it's too dear for you (it's certainly too dear for me) then just don't buy it and remain blissfully unjipped with a nice pint of Oyster. Or Hooker. Or whatever's on cask.

brianthebard

Well the way I see it there's little to know value added by being in a pub, whereas to continue your dunnes-resturant analogy there is obviously value added to the steak, even if they are the same meat to begin with. Making an assumption here I feel it is the question of where the added value comes from that most customers and publicans will disagree on. I realise there are a lot of costs involved and therefore the publican has to recoup them, but by and large the customer doesn't care much about that as this thread has evidenced.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

Making an assumption here I feel it is the question of where the added value comes from that most customers and publicans will disagree on.

That's probably true. But it's not an equal relationship. We have the money, we get to decide what's value and what's not by how we spend it.

brianthebard wrote: »

by and large the customer doesn't care much about that as this thread has evidenced.

Which is fair enough. But it's not fair enough for the customer to then go to a message board and complain that the pub is ripping people off by operating in the real world rather than a cheaper fantasy one.

_blank_

BeerNut wrote: »

Which is fair enough. But it's not fair enough for the customer to then go to a message board and complain that the pub is ripping people off by operating in the real world rather than a cheaper fantasy one.

True, but if someone can buy Product X for €1 in an off licence, but costs €4+ in a pub, then they are going to feel ripped off. Of course they are.

brianthebard

BeerNut wrote: »

That's probably true. But it's not an equal relationship. We have the money, we get to decide what's value and what's not by how we spend it.

Well we've already seen many people suggest that a wider drinks variety would be adding value. Yes each person can decide for themselves what is value, but this point has been made again and again so I think its a common thought at this stage.

Which is fair enough. But it's not fair enough for the customer to then go to a message board and complain that the pub is ripping people off by operating in the real world rather than a cheaper fantasy one.

I didn't complain they are ripping me off, I said I felt somewhat jipped. It is my opinion and I'm entitled to it, fair enough you like the pub so you're getting defensive but there's no need. I named the pubs for my own benefit; not to denigrate them, I like the salt house too btw, I just can't afford to drink there. I have explained that my position is that the pub is not adding value, that is the only reason I used these examples. It was the exact same argument as many others have posted in this thread already.

Ash.J.Williams

Many pubs changed to suit the saps that were hanging around thinking they were wealthy over the last 10 years, as a result they completely lost their character.

BeerNut

Des wrote: »

then they are going to feel ripped off. Of course they are.

What? Even if they kept their money in their pocket? Beware the long-fingered barmen...

enda1

brianthebard wrote: »

Well we've already seen many people suggest that a wider drinks variety would be adding value. Yes each person can decide for themselves what is value, but this point has been made again and again so I think its a common thought at this stage.



I didn't complain they are ripping me off, I said I felt somewhat jipped. It is my opinion and I'm entitled to it, fair enough you like the pub so you're getting defensive but there's no need. I named the pubs for my own benefit; not to denigrate them, I like the salt house too btw, I just can't afford to drink there. I have explained that my position is that the pub is not adding value, that is the only reason I used these examples. It was the exact same argument as many others have posted in this thread already.

Having a wider drink selection doesn't "add value" to the drink you consume on premises.

Things that do (subjectively) "add value" are the glass being provided and cleaned for you, having a heated safe and comfortable premises, entertainment, conversation from the bar-people, newspapers, etc.

brianthebard

enda1 wrote: »

Having a wider drink selection doesn't "add value" to the drink you consume on premises.

Things that do (subjectively) "add value" are the glass being provided and cleaned for you, having a heated safe and comfortable premises, entertainment, conversation from the bar-people, newspapers, etc.

a wider selection adds value to the pub, not the drink itself. the things you listed are all available at home (with the possible exception of the bar-people) which is why so many people have already said they have little interest in going to pubs as they currently are.

Degag

Des wrote: »

it's against the law to consume off-sales in the pub, no?

anyway, you'd be turfed out one way or another.



I bring my own food to the cinema, if I intend to eat at all.

Usually though, I go to the cinema in the evening, after my dinner, I don't need to eat a large popcorn to myself, plus drink a large drink.

If we were to get food in the cinema, it would be a large popcorn & drink between us. It's normally called a "Couples Deal" or some such, and costs just over a tenner.

Any couple spending the guts of forty quid on cinema food are fat bastards imo. that would be two large popcorns, two large drinks, ice cream x 2, nachos and a packet of minstrels. How can anyone eat that amount in ~2hours and still watch the film :eek:

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

Come on its a bit different !! Dont be stupid now. You dont have to buy your snacks at the cinema if you dont want to, if you want to be ripped off then do so by all means...... however you cant bring cans into a pub !!

brianthebard wrote: »

Cause you'll get kicked out obviously!

We are comparing the two different establishments and the services that they offer are we not? Therefore with regards the cinema, we are only discussing the items which can be bought on their premises. Saying that you can sneak in snacks that only cost 3 or 4 euro is irrevelant to this discussion. It's akin to sneaking a naggin or a few cans into the pub - which people do - for the purposes of this discussion. That was my point.

Paparazzo

Does wetherspoons have a chance of getting into Ireland with half of Fianna Fail TD's owning pubs and the vintners association lobbying power? Not a hope

Degag wrote: »

Why not go into the offy and stock up on cans and bring them into the pub with you? Same difference.

From experience, Entry to the cinema, medium popcorn and drink *2 = not much change from €40. And that's a pretty small local cinema.

Well, it's not. Reason is, you pay to go to the cinema to go view a movie. It's not a eating or drinking establishment.
A better analogy to bringing your own food to the cinema would to say "you wouldn't bring a laptop to a pub (where you're paying for drink) and watch a dvd". And during the day, I don't see why not.

questionmark?

Op can you give us a break down of the cost involved

Licence standard yearly renewal(whats the figure) and for those that have late licences its approx 500 per night that its used although i'm sure this varies from district to district.

Subscription(for want of a better word) to the VFI


Security for those that it applies to doormen(maybe 15 - 20 per hour per per person)

Insurance - I'm guessing thousands

Council rates - no idea how much

Water rates - ?

Paying suppliers

Paying for the stock

Paying the duties

Paying for keg and bottle collection

General waste (black bags)

Electricty couple of k per bill

Heating

Staff

Rent/mortgage

Line cleaning

Buying glasses

Cleaners (9 per hour)

Dj's (150+ per night)

Band (500 - 800)

Accountant


and thats just the different costs involved off the top of my head. I'd really like if the OP could give us accurate figures here just to see what has to be paid for before making a profit.

Degag

-Add on the cost of Satellite TV - About €1000 a month.
-Add on the cost of entertainment - you mist pay IRMA or some crowd like that money to have live entertainment or a jukebox etc.
-Alarm System
-Complementary Food, which we give out for Parties and various GAA/Soccer matches.
-Complimentary Newspapers, 6 Dailies, 3 Local Papers and 2 on Sunday ~€20 per week, ~€1000 a year.
-Maintaining Bathrooms

zagmund

Err, but there's a sizeable proportion of people who *don't want* a telly yabbering away in the corner.

The IRMA payments apply to all shops playing radio or recorded music as far as I'm aware. And, there's a sizeable proportion who etc . . . although of course for a music venue this one is going to be unavoidable.

Newspapers, technically a cost to you, but also an enticement to bring customers in. There is an upside here. Same goes for complimentary food.

Alarms - last I checked all other retailers had alarms.

Bathrooms - definitely an extra cost that most other places don't have to account for.

Insurance/rates/stock/waste/staff/cleaning/heating/accountant . . . all retailers have these costs.

Glasses ? Seriously . . . they can't be that expensive. Sure, they get broken, but enough to put a dent in the pocket ? Do the breweries sponsor the branded glasses you get in bars in other countries ? I imagine they do as it's all advertising.

z

Degag

zagmund wrote: »

Err, but there's a sizeable proportion of people who *don't want* a telly yabbering away in the corner.

The IRMA payments apply to all shops playing radio or recorded music as far as I'm aware. And, there's a sizeable proportion who etc . . . although of course for a music venue this one is going to be unavoidable.

Newspapers, technically a cost to you, but also an enticement to bring customers in. There is an upside here. Same goes for complimentary food.

Alarms - last I checked all other retailers had alarms.

Bathrooms - definitely an extra cost that most other places don't have to account for.

Insurance/rates/stock/waste/staff/cleaning/heating/accountant . . . all retailers have these costs.

Glasses ? Seriously . . . they can't be that expensive. Sure, they get broken, but enough to put a dent in the pocket ? Do the breweries sponsor the branded glasses you get in bars in other countries ? I imagine they do as it's all advertising.

z

It's not a contest to find additional costs that other retailers don't have, it's just a statement of fact.

Yeah *some* people don't like a tv, but in general if you don't have one showing all the live sport, you may as well close your doors. Branded glasses are generally provided to you alright except by Guinness strangely enough. So all you have to look after are the slim jims, 1/2 pint glasses, wine glasses etc.

BeerNut

questionmark? wrote: »

Paying for keg and bottle collection
...
Line cleaning

Don't the breweries take care of this?

zagmund wrote: »

Insurance/rates/stock/waste/staff/cleaning/heating/accountant . . . all retailers have these costs.

I'm guessing the public liability insurance you need for a pub is considerably higher than other retail.

Saruman

Do the breweries not charge for the service of line cleaning etc? I was under the impression that the breweries decided years ago that rather than risk competition coming in, if the publicans are so dependent on the breweries to clean their lines that they will not be able to get alternatives in.
So I thought they charge a nominal fee for the service and these days there are probably only a handful of publicans who know how to clean their lines.

Could be wrong of course, I often am

JamesCLN87

I registered just to post in this great thread (I occasionally read this particular board when I'd some spare time) and I'd like to give a big thumbs up to everyone who's taken part in the thread so far it's been a great read

I'd just like to make a couple of points on the subject myself which I feel haven't been explored fully yet.

While reading this thread I've been racking my brains to think of things that'd make me go to a pub over having a few bottles at home or at a friends. I tried to think of things that the pub can offer that my home or my friends home can't. I found it VERY difficult shockingly to come up with anything concrete, price wise the pub can't hope to complete with the off licence, entertainment wise I think the pub struggles too, I used to watch a good few matches in pubs when I didn't have a Sky Sports package and while it could be a good expierience it was often ruined by people shouting and roaring too much (I don't mean a bit of cheering etc. as is normal I mean shouting insults at the players and such usually called by people having too much drink) or by the pub being too packed to actually watch the match in comfort with a drink. The pub just can't compare in my opinion to watching a big match at home with friends over either atmosphere wise or comfort wise. Same can be said of music, there's only a handful of pubs I actually enjoy the music in, whereas at home I can make my own playlist and listen to the music that myself and my friends really enjoy, in a pub I might get one song in ten I like, or if they have a jukebox I've to either keep pumping change into it or hope other people have similar music tastes to me. General comfort is also a big problem in a lot of pubs these days, the popular pubs get packed quickly and simply getting to the bar can be a 20 minute ordeal, then there's the whole hoping your pint doesn't get knocked over on the way back scenario to look forward to.

Now as the night progresses and people get drunker and drunker a lot of these problems tend to not be a big issue, I know I can happily go to a busy late bar with music I don't like jam packed with people at about 11 or 12 when I've a good few drinks in me etc. but for the start of the night the pub just can't compete with the comforts of home/a friends house in any category for me, except possibly if I want a game of pool or a meeting point for a number of different groups.

Funnily enough the ONE thing I could think of that would get me to go to a pub early on in the night is Guiness, I enjoy a nice pint of Guiness and I don't think the cans compare to draught. Someone made the point earlier that you don't mind paying to eat in a nice restaurant cause you're paying for the chefs ability to cook you a fancy meal you either can't (or don't want to spend the time doing) make at home yourself, Guiness is literally the only drink I can think of a that a pub can do better than home, except for cocktails but for cocktails to be appealing to me they have to have a large menu and be made infront of me, not those pre mixed ones. Everything else on tap in your typical irish pub tastes the EXACT same as from a can or bottle bought in the offy (and also pretty rubbish in my humble opinion). Why anyone would spend 5 euro on Budwesier is beyond me, I don't think it's worth the 1 euro you pay in the offy but there you go.

Which brings me neatly into my next point, for someone like myself (and a lot of the people on this board) the drinks we drink at home tend to not cost quite as much extra in a pub as your standard drinks. For example, I'd often drink the polish beers Lech, Tyskie etc. at home, they are usually 2 euro a bottle (sometimes a bit less sometimes a bit more). There's a polish bar in my town and these are 4euro in there (last time I checked anyways) so it's pretty much twice the price, which is pretty much what a pub should be at most in my opinion. Similary the german weissbeers I like to drink often tend to be 2 to 3 euro a pop in the offyand if (though thats a big if ) a pub sells them they are usually 5 euro again twice the price. Compare that to your bottles of Heiniken, Bug and Miller which are freely available for a euro each (often less) and then for a pub to ask you for 4.50 or 5euro for them feels like a slap in the face. The only issue then is availibility, when I'm in cork i love going to the Bierhaus of the Fran Well for a few pints, not only will they most likely have most of my favourites there's also new stuff to taste and often beer of the month specials etc. When I'm at home (Clonmel) I'm severly more limited in whats available in each pub.

Also one last point to make before the soccer starts is that the pubs that we all describe as being our "ideal" pub is the pub where we'd go for a few pints, not for a mad night out, can a pub really make a profit with a constant stream of people drinking a pint every half hour etc. or does it need people who drink heavily for the night? Thats why those trendy bars with loud music, where the people are packed in like sardines make money, everyone in there is usually spending an abolsute fortune on drinks, I know when i go out with a group and am dragged to a bar like that I tend to drink a lot more to compensate for everything else in there.......

JamesCLN87

Gotta agree with ya on that one, there's a few semi decent pubs though, if I go out it tend to just stick to one of those till closing time (usually circa 1am to 1 30 depending) then nip out neatly avoiding all the drunks coming out of the nightclub :cool:

Saruman

JamesCLN87 wrote: »

Funnily enough the ONE thing I could think of that would get me to go to a pub early on in the night is Guiness, I enjoy a nice pint of Guiness and I don't think the cans compare to draught. Someone made the point earlier that you don't mind paying to eat in a nice restaurant cause you're paying for the chefs ability to cook you a fancy meal you either can't (or don't want to spend the time doing) make at home yourself, Guiness is literally the only drink I can think of a that a pub can do better than home,

Now I know this is down to preference etc but the fact is this. Bottled Guinness is a far superior drink to the nitrokegged, Super chilled frothy stuff that you get on Draught at the pub. You can get both at a lot of pubs and where there is a pint bottle of Guinness I will take that over Draught any day, especially off the shelf (not cold).

Since I can also buy that at any off license, this is not a reason for me to go to the pub.
That said, I am still of the opinion that I would rather drink in a pub as long as it is the right pub. Bull and Castle, Porterhouse, Franciscan well, Bierhaus, Salthouse etc.... all these wonderful pubs around the country are worthy of me travelling hours to get to. It does not happen too often since I live so far away but I always get to the Bull and Castle at least once a month (for ICB meetings) and usually more than once (I got a sneaky half pint of hooker and lunch today at B&C )

JamesCLN87

Saruman wrote: »

Now I know this is down to preference etc but the fact is this. Bottled Guinness is a far superior drink to the nitrokegged, Super chilled frothy stuff that you get on Draught at the pub. You can get both at a lot of pubs and where there is a pint bottle of Guinness I will take that over Draught any day, especially off the shelf (not cold).

Since I can also buy that at any off license, this is not a reason for me to go to the pub.
That said, I am still of the opinion that I would rather drink in a pub as long as it is the right pub. Bull and Castle, Porterhouse, Franciscan well, Bierhaus, Salthouse etc.... all these wonderful pubs around the country are worthy of me travelling hours to get to. It does not happen too often since I live so far away but I always get to the Bull and Castle at least once a month (for ICB meetings) and usually more than once (I got a sneaky half pint of hooker and lunch today at B&C )

I am fond of the pint bottle of Guinness (and a big fan of the foreign export) but I find them to be different enough to the draught stuff as to be almost a different drink, since they are also fizzy I find drinking a lot of them can unsettle my stomach a tad. I'm aware draft Guinness isn't the best stuff in the world, but it by far the best of a bad bunch available on tap and if you find a pub with a nice pint (the only places ill drink ) thats enough of an attraction to get me out of the house if I'm one of my "I'd love a pint of the black stuff" moods.

rubadub

Degag wrote: »

It's not a contest to find additional costs that other retailers don't have, it's just a statement of fact.

Yes, and with all those costs mentioned listed Dicey Reilys on Harcourt street can still offer a large selection of €2 drinks on a wednesday, including usually expensive ones like pints of Paulaner. And only €3 on thursdays. They also offer food at these same prices too, curry chips, hot dogs etc. A bar in that location would cost a fortune and the furnishings in it would have costed a lot (even if not to your taste).

There was one word mentioned and it is one I have described going to the pub as -ordeal. Sometimes I have to go to the pub, like a mates birthday or similar and it does often seem like an ordeal (though I usually enjoy it once there). Even if the drink costed the same as the offie (like those €2 diceys Paulaners) I would often just prefer to do without the hassle of going there.

zagmund

I was in Dublin at the Street Performers festival on Merrion Square yesterday. There must have been 50,000 people (wild guess, but there was a huge number of people and it was on Friday, Saturday & Sunday) passing through the area. The food vans were doing mad business, huge queues.

We dropped into Larry Murphys which is just around the corner and it may as well have been a rainy Tuesday in March. There was a group of about 5 girls watching the Slovakia-Paraguay game. There was 2 or 3 people at each of the tables outside and that was it. Maybe 20 people all told.

It was like the place didn't want to make money. Loads of people were coming in to go to the loo, thousands were passing right by the door every hour as it was a main access route. They could have cleaned up (in a good way) with some sort of sales pitch outside - ready to go food, coffee, other drinks, beer even . . . on account of being a pub.

We sat down outside and enjoyed the sun and the buzz from people passing by, and all the time we were there nobody came out to clear the tables, take orders, nothing. What little custom they did was on the back of customers going inside to order.

This speaks volumes to me - there was one barman working on what could easily (except rugby days maybe) have been one of their busiest days in the year. The customers were passing right by the door just waiting to be enticed in by something, anything. It was certainly hot enough yesterday - if nothing else they would have done a huge business in soft drinks and water and benefitted from people coming in to get a bit of shade and a comfortable seat.

I feel sorry for landlords, but this has to rank as one of the big missed opportunities.

z

maninasia

I think there is probably more room for theme/restaurant pubs. There's very little imagination and creativity in the pub business in Ireland. It may be there is more money to be made from the food and other drinks than the alcoholic beers. I have seen many themed pubs in Asia...German style pubs, Chinese stir-fry places. This is the 21st century, let's embrace it. There's just too many pubs chasing too little business.
One poster mentioned cider, why doesn't somebody do a cider and wine themed pub..something like that. There could be a whole blue ocean of business waiting there for people who don't particularly care about going to a pub but want a night out. Business owners will have to take risks otherwise they'll go out of business in the long-run anyway. The other way is of course to cut all costs to the bone and go downmarket, still no guarantee. As the poster said above you have to chase business, have a plan, check what events far in advance, maximise business EVERYDAY through the year. The staff will have to be more proactive and friendly staff are a key asset.

Some of the old time pubs in Ireland were magic, most have disappeared or got redone into superpubs. They are still far in advance of the UK with their horrible chain pubs, ghastly food and atmosphere. The food in many Irish pubs is really top notch, far superior to many other countries.

Apart from job losses, lifestyle changes and emigration is reducing customer numbers in Ireland (which were artificially inflated during the free flowing money of the boom years). It's going to be a difficult business no matter what people do, chasing less customers.

the beer revolu

Thought I'd mention another good pub experience.

1 & 1/2 Pints of Beamish and 2 bowls of stew (Mediterranean Chicken that night) with bread :€9.

The Sextant, Cork.