Dentist harassing me for payment!

samsemtex

My dentist called me at the end of last year/start of this year to arrange an appointment saying i was entitled to a free appointment under my PRSI entitlements. I think this was because they have changed the system and in future i wont be entitled to have my PRSI cover my dental work. Anyway, i was told this is 100% covered under the old scheme and invited in. I went in and got my teeth cleaned anyway nothing major.

Went home, nothing was said about a bill and now they are calling me and sending me bills saying that i wasnt actually covered by the scheme because the appointment had been rescheduled. Now since it's their mistake should i tell them to take a hike? Ive been ignoring them so far.

Banned Account

Was the dental nurse hawt?

PICs or you're in the wrong forum.

petes

Depends. Do you want to go back to this dentist?


Me, I'd ring them up tell them it was their fault and they weren't getting anything.

Oh and because it's AH called them a bunch of cunts while doing so.

_feedback_

samsemtex wrote: »

My dentist called me at the end of last year/start of this year to arrange an appointment saying i was entitled to a free appointment under my PRSI entitlements. I think this was because they have changed the system and in future i wont be entitled to have my PRSI cover my dental work. Anyway, i was told this is 100% covered under the old scheme and invited in. I went in and got my teeth cleaned anyway nothing major.

Went home, nothing was said about a bill and now they are calling me and sending me bills saying that i wasnt actually covered by the scheme because the appointment had been rescheduled. Now since it's their mistake should i tell them to take a hike? Ive been ignoring them so far.

He must be pulling your tooth leg.

Kiera

Ring them and tell them that you were told it was free and that you are 100% not paying for it. Unless you are the one who rescheduled, then it could fall on you.

Itsdacraic

Just reply telling them that trying to get money out of you will be like pulling teeth.

orourkeda

Just pay him will you?

Trashbat

Burn the place down. Serves them right for thinking that people should pay for non essential services and treatments.

emanresu

samsemtex wrote: »

Ive been ignoring them so far.

Don't ignore them. Tell them the reason why you won't be paying, ie.
that they re-scheduled the appointment, not you, so it is their mistake they said it would still be covered.

samsemtex

orourkeda wrote: »

Just pay him will you?

Why? I dont feel like giving them over half a days wages for arranging an appointment i didnt need after they told me it'd be free.

johndoe99

orourkeda wrote: »

Just pay him will you?

you must be the dentist

emanresu

samsemtex wrote: »

Why? I dont feel like giving them over half a days wages for arranging an appointment i didnt need after they told me it'd be free.

Because you posted in the "After Hours" forum
(by the way it has just been moved to the "Dental Issues" forum in the last few minutes).

btkm8unsl0w5r4

If the appointment was made for before the PRSI was cut you should be covered. If you changed the appointment it may not be. I suppose the dentist is out of pocket now so maybe he or she can cut the staffs wages or reduce their hours ? Its not the dentist fault the PRSI are not covering you anymore, you had the treatment and took up the dentist, and staff time. Take it up with you TD.

ballsymchugh

i'm sure you'll find that once you actually talk to them, that they're human and open to discussion, and if you feel that they made a mistake that they'll take it on the chin.
duncan bannatyne said that you should never have debts with the taxman or your gp. i'd add your dentist to that.

samsemtex

Jaxton Raspy Elk wrote: »

If the appointment was made for before the PRSI was cut you should be covered. If you changed the appointment it may not be. I suppose the dentist is out of pocket now so maybe he or she can cut the staffs wages or reduce their hours ? Its not the dentist fault the PRSI are not covering you anymore, you had the treatment and took up the dentist, and staff time. Take it up with you TD.

No, the dentist called me and said you have a free appointment. He took up my time and I would be out of pocket a lot more than her. €70 is sweet f.a to a dentist but constitutes 7 hours work for me. I didnt ask for an appointment and would not have gone at all if i wasnt offered it. I got my mam to reschedule it for me but she asked at the time if it was still covered and she was told it was.

Anyway the dentist earns my daily wage in about half an hour yet I should feel bad for taking up his offer of a free appointment which she said was definitely free?

ballsymchugh

samsemtex wrote: »

Anyway the dentist earns my daily wage in about half an hour yet I should feel bad for taking up his offer of a free appointment which she said was definitely free?

turnover =/= wage

cojomo2

Jaxton Raspy Elk wrote: »

If the appointment was made for before the PRSI was cut you should be covered. If you changed the appointment it may not be. I suppose the dentist is out of pocket now so maybe he or she can cut the staffs wages or reduce their hours ? Its not the dentist fault the PRSI are not covering you anymore, you had the treatment and took up the dentist, and staff time. Take it up with you TD.

Clearly a biased opinion from another dentist.

Fitzgeme, did read what the Op stated?

samsemtex wrote: »

My dentist called me at the end of last year/start of this year to arrange an appointment saying i was entitled to a free appointment under my PRSI entitlements.

The dentist is the one who rang the OP, agreed an appointment and made it clear that it would not cost a penny as it was being covered under PRSI

If the OP did change the appointment, which caused it to no longer fall within the time frame of the PRSI scheme, then it was 100% up to the dentist at that point to make the OP aware that the appointment would no longer be covered.


The dentist failed to do this, and actually indicated to the OP, when the appointment was being rescheduled that it would still be covered.

samsemtex wrote: »

I got my mam to reschedule it for me but she asked at the time if it was still covered and she was told it was.

It's clear, if what the OP has stated is accurate, that the dentist is at fault and should just suck it up and get on with it.

ballsymchugh

cojomo2 wrote: »

If the OP did change the appointment, which caused it to no longer fall within the time frame of the PRSI scheme, then it was 100% up to the dentist at that point to make the OP aware that the appointment would no longer be covered.


The dentist failed to do this, and actually indicated to the OP, when the appointment was being rescheduled that it would still be covered.

actually not true. it was never up to the dentist to inform you that you were entitled to treatment under the prsi scheme. it's up to the patient to inform the dentist. the fact that most dentists did the chasing for the patient doesn't change that.

the last part is between the dentist and the OP's mother, and it's only going to be sorted if someone actually speaks to the receptionist/dentist instead of ignoring it.

samsemtex

ballsymchugh wrote: »

actually not true. it was never up to the dentist to inform you that you were entitled to treatment under the prsi scheme. it's up to the patient to inform the dentist. the fact that most dentists did the chasing for the patient doesn't change that.

Yeah that would be true...if I went looking for an appointment. I didnt and never even realised that i would be covered by PRSI in the past. I just assumed it was like going to the doctor where i have to pay their charges and i didnt think PRSI ever covered it. They told me otherwise and said i was entitled to a free appointment which i never wanted or asked for. So because a dentist offers me a free appointment i am supposed to go and educate myself on the ins and outs of the PRSI system in case he wants to screw me?

I think the fact the dentist went chasing me changes everything to be honest.

PCPhoto

ballsymchugh wrote: »

actually not true. it was never up to the dentist to inform you that you were entitled to treatment under the prsi scheme. it's up to the patient to inform the dentist. the fact that most dentists did the chasing for the patient doesn't change that.

the last part is between the dentist and the OP's mother, and it's only going to be sorted if someone actually speaks to the receptionist/dentist instead of ignoring it.

so.... if someone phones me saying I can get something for free ..... I say.. "cool no problem, bring it on ".... then they send whatever it is and a bill saying I owe them money.

you expect someone to pay the bill ....funk that !!

Dentist shouldnt have been touting for business - now that the government changed their mind saying they are not gonna cover the treatment ...the dentist should claim from the government ...not the patient.....its the dentists fault, dentist needs to suck it up and move on.

(no offence intended to dentists - but in this case - assuming all facts are correct - dentist is at fault)

EDIT: Why did most dentists do the chasing ? because they were getting money from the government for simple procedures ...I doubt some of these dentists have their patients teeth at heart when making appointments...its all about the bottom line, dentistry is an expensive profession to get into and keep, with the government removing funding, dentists no longer have the cushion of support - like the rest of the working population they experience a drop in income

cojomo2

ballsymchugh wrote: »

actually not true. it was never up to the dentist to inform you that you were entitled to treatment under the prsi scheme. it's up to the patient to inform the dentist. the fact that most dentists did the chasing for the patient doesn't change that.

the last part is between the dentist and the OP's mother, and it's only going to be sorted if someone actually speaks to the receptionist/dentist instead of ignoring it.

Perhaps, but as the dentist took it upon himself to ring the OP specifically to inform him that he was entitles to free treatment, it was then up to the dentist to inform the OP if this was to change before any chargeable work was done.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I will not let this turn into a dentist bashing thread.

The fact is that you attended for a checkup and cleaning which you received. You should have gotten this for free with your PRSI benefits but they were cut through not fault of yours or the dentists. The dentist is out of pocket and the bills for the time you were there have to be paid, staff, rent, utilities, insurance, indemnity materials, wear and tear on equipment and of course the opportunity cost. So even if the dentist decided to work for free, the cost of your visit is still around 40-50 euro.

Has the dentist communicated with you property - sound like not, but ring the practice, air your concerns and come to an arrangement. If not you will just become another bad debtor of the practice.

If I go into hospital and claim to have VHI insurance they will treat me and claim later, if it turns out I dont have VHI cover I will get the bill.

ballsymchugh

PCPhoto wrote: »

so.... if someone phones me saying I can get something for free ..... I say.. "cool no problem, bring it on ".... then they send whatever it is and a bill saying I owe them money.

you expect someone to pay the bill ....funk that !!

Dentist shouldnt have been touting for business - now that the government changed their mind saying they are not gonna cover the treatment ...the dentist should claim from the government ...not the patient.....its the dentists fault, dentist needs to suck it up and move on.

(no offence intended to dentists - but in this case - assuming all facts are correct - dentist is at fault)

it depends what exactly was said between the dentist and the patient's mother. the scheme was stopped pretty abruptly at the end of 09, giving patients 2 months after to get the treatment completed. i assume the original cancelled appointment was within the 2 months, and you saw the dentist after when the whole thing was withdrawn?
anyway, highlights the issue of PRSI again. you're getting no benefit to paying it anymore. remember that when your local TD calls around again looking for a vote.

cojomo2

Jaxton Raspy Elk wrote: »

I will not let this turn into a dentist bashing thread.

The fact is that you attended for a checkup and cleaning which you received. You should have gotten this for free with your PRSI benefits but they were cut through not fault of yours or the dentists. The dentist is out of pocket and the bills for the time you were there have to be paid, staff, rent, utilities, insurance, indemnity materials, wear and tear on equipment and of course the opportunity cost. So even if the dentist decided to work for free, the cost of your visit is still around 40-50 euro.

Has the dentist communicated with you property - sound like not, but ring the practice, air your concerns and come to an arrangement. If not you will just become another bad debtor of the practice.

If I go into hospital and claim to have VHI insurance they will treat me and claim later, if it turns out I dont have VHI cover I will get the bill.

This is by no means a 'dentist bashing thread'... the person at fault here just happens to be a dentist. If an 'bashing' is being done, it is being aimed at this particular dentist, and not dentists in general.



Yes, the PRSI benefits were cut. The dentist would have been informed of this through the HSE. It was then up to the dentist to inform the patient of same before work was carried out.

He failed to do this. His fault, he has no grounds to look for payment.

PCPhoto

Jaxton Raspy Elk wrote: »

I will not let this turn into a dentist bashing thread.

The fact is that you attended for a checkup and cleaning which you received. You should have gotten this for free with your PRSI benefits but they were cut through not fault of yours or the dentists. The dentist is out of pocket and the bills for the time you were there have to be paid, staff, rent, utilities, insurance, indemnity materials, wear and tear on equipment and of course the opportunity cost. So even if the dentist decided to work for free, the cost of your visit is still around 40-50 euro.

Has the dentist communicated with you property - sound like not, but ring the practice, air your concerns and come to an arrangement. If not you will just become another bad debtor of the practice.

If I go into hospital and claim to have VHI insurance they will treat me and claim later, if it turns out I dont have VHI cover I will get the bill.

depends on if you gave them your correct name/address !! .... and chances are they check it on the computer before you are treated anyway.

the dentist offered a free service, the OP took up the service thinking that the government are picking up the tab (dentist also thinks this) ..... government decide to not take the tab so dentist tries to get money from patient....patient is 100% (legally) entitled not to pay ANYTHING, dentist only recourse is against the government.

ideally dentist and patient would agree a nominal fee (50-50 split of bill) .... but the OP is under no obligation to do so - especially after being told the entire thing was covered.....the OP has already stated that he/she wouldnt have gone to the dentist prior to dentist phoning and claiming he/she has a free appointment.

OP I would suggest that you phone and talk to dentist regarding this and explain the situation as you understand it, and see if you both can come to some agreement.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Indeed....this treatment used to be free, you can vent over dentist fees all you but free was pretty good value. You pay PRSI "insurance" from your wages and get practically nothing in return. Why is this let slide, the response from patients to these cuts has been mostly apathy and resignation. Because the Dentist is the contact point for patients receipt of this benefit the dentist gets the brunt of this scorn. Contact your TD and insist that the PRSI benefit is reinstated.

davo10

Something does not ring true with this, OP are you giving us all the facts. If the dentist checked that you were covered under PRSI with Dept of Social welfare then they would have to honour that and you would not have to pay for a checkup and clean provided you turned up for your appointment and had the treatment prior to March 31st, the end date for dental treatments under the old PRSI dental scheme. If your original appointment was before this date and you rescheduled after this date then you missed the cut off date and would have to pay for the treatment as you did not take up your entitlement in time.
Just to clarify, patients were entitled to PRSI treatment if they recieved approval before Dec 31st and completed before March 31. I wrote to all my patients before Xmas explaining the changes and asking them to contact us asap if they wanted treatment under old scheme, those that did not contact us were private from January 1st.
If it happened the way you are telling it, your elegibility was confirmed, you had treatment and there would be no need for dentist to bill you, you are leaving some details out, I suspect you didnt go dentist on the date you were supposed to and rescheduled after the cut off date.

samsemtex

davo10 wrote: »

Something does not ring true with this, OP are you giving us all the facts. If the dentist checked that you were covered under PRSI with Dept of Social welfare then they would have to honour that and you would not have to pay for a checkup and clean provided you turned up for your appointment and had the treatment prior to March 31st, the end date for dental treatments under the old PRSI dental scheme. If your original appointment was before this date and you rescheduled after this date then you missed the cut off date and would have to pay for the treatment as you did not take up your entitlement in time.
Just to clarify, patients were entitled to PRSI treatment if they recieved approval before Dec 31st and completed before March 31. I wrote to all my patients before Xmas explaining the changes and asking them to contact us asap if they wanted treatment under old scheme, those that did not contact us were private from January 1st.
If it happened the way you are telling it, your elegibility was confirmed, you had treatment and there would be no need for dentist to bill you, you are leaving some details out, I suspect you didnt go dentist on the date you were supposed to and rescheduled after the cut off date.

I dont remember the date i went on and it probably was after the cut off date but thats not really the point. It was confirmed beforehand and while on the phone his assistant stated that it would still be a free appointment.

I'll give him a call. I might offer to pay half just to have it out of the way and still have a dentist to go to.

davo10

Ah, so things are not quite as you made them out to be. You have wilfully misled the readers of this thread and slandered your dentist making him/her out to be greedy and you a victim.
You were offerred free treatment and had 3 months to avail of it, by your own admission you rescheduled your appointment for a date after the cut off point for PRSI treatment under the old scheme, every PRSI patient in the country knows about changes to the dental scheme. This is your fault and you are responcible for the situation, so apologise to the readers of this forum for being full of s**t and pay up.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

So OP this is the story from your posts.

1. Your dentist office rings you to tell you the PRSI scheme is closing down and if you want a free checkup (free to you, the dentist gets paid by the PRSI) you need to come in in the next 3 months.
2. You make an appointment within the 3 months.
3. Your mother changes this appointment for you to a date outside the 3 months window. Your mother communicates to you that it will still be free. Did she actually ask?
4. The dentist sees you and carries out treatment that takes up the dentists and staffs time. The fact that the dentist doesn't find something wrong with your teeth or do some unnecessary treatment annoys you cause the dentist didn't do anything for the money. (which you didn't pay)
5. The dentist does not get paid by the PRSI on your behalf.
6. The dentist send you an invoice for the money owed.
7. You get cross that the dentist wants to be paid for his/her work and would dare to chase you for money.
8. You feel the dentist wasted your time even though by your own admission your time is worth SFA compared to the dentists.

I think this is fairly cut and dried, you own money. Either pay up or don't draw attention to the fact you dont pay your bills. Tell the dentist you will pay 10 euro week for 7 weeks.

samsemtex

davo10 wrote: »

Ah, so things are not quite as you made them out to be. You have wilfully misled the readers of this thread and slandered your dentist making him/her out to be greedy and you a victim.
This is your fault and you are responcible for the situation, so apologise to the readers of this forum for being full of s**t and pay up.

Oh do cop on and read the thread properly. Stop getting overly defensive of your profession.

samsemtex wrote: »

Anyway, i was told this is 100% covered under the old scheme and invited in. I went in and got my teeth cleaned anyway nothing major.

Went home, nothing was said about a bill

samsemtex wrote: »

I didnt ask for an appointment and would not have gone at all if i wasnt offered it. I got my mam to reschedule it for me but she asked at the time if it was still covered and she was told it was.

Where do I mislead them? I said numerous times that I was told the appointment would be free before and after it was rescheduled. My mother asked when she reschedule and she was told 100% that it would be free. If it wasnt, either we wouldnt have rescheduled or I just wouldnt have gone. Secondly, I'm not even sure if it was after the cut off anyway. I'll have to double check that.

So please do tell how it is my fault and how I am responsible for it since we made changes to our appointment based on information the dentist's secretary gave us? Or else get off your high horse.