Rio Ferdinand is out of the World Cup.

DazMarz

Gerrard was named as vice-captain back when Terry was stripped of the captaincy, so he will get the armband now. Lamps probably vice-captain now.

Feel kinda sorry for Rio. I've no great love for the chap at all, but that's gotta be a killer to miss out on the WC, when you were made the team captain...

jesus_thats_gre

kakee wrote: »

Dont forget Rio didn't make too many apperances for United this season. Michael Dawson has been brilliant and is a better defender than Jamie Carragher or Matthew Upson any day. He totally deserves to go to Africa.

Dawson had a good season and Carragher had a bad first half to the season and an excellent second half.

By the half way stage of the season, Liverpool had nearly conceeded as many goal that they done so in whole of the previous season.

Liverpool still managed to complete the season with 7 goals less conceeded than Spurs did.

Carragher has played at the highest level consistently now for 6 or 7 years. Dawson has had no where near the same amount of experience - no CL and virtually no internation experience.

I personally think that it would be lunacy to put Dawson in ahead of Carragher.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

King is the obvious choice imo, but his injury status puts him at another problem.

Frankly, England's defence now only has Cole and Terry who are really at the highest levels. From the strongest part of their squad a year ago, they really have been hit by injuries.

Hmmm whatever about the argument of who should replace Rio, I think you are doing Johnson a major disservice.

Both himself and Carragher played in an out of sorts Liverpool team that were in disarray for large portions of the season. You are well aware of how many goals they conceeded in the first half of the season. For Liverpool to finish the season having only conceeded 3 goals more than Chelsea, who coincidently Terry and Cole play for.

A back line of:

Johnson

---

Carragher

---

Terry

---

Cole

is more than good enough to compete for the World Cup.

Fanny Cradock

It may have been asked already, but is it too late for teams like England to name new players?

jesus_thats_gre

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It may have been asked already, but is it too late for teams like England to name new players?

I think they can call up anyone. They can defo call in any of the 7 players left behind.

Stevecw

It is a blow as whoever replaces him, either Carragher or King don't have his pace. With Terry and one of those they will be caught out by fast strikers. They should be ok for the groups but after that they could have done with him being fit.

peabutler

If Altidore is fit for the groups watch his pace.

Lukker-

England won't miss him too much. IMO they got off lucky, better now than in the first game when you can't call up a replacement.

everdead.ie

I wonder will capello think that he can't really play carragher there in case Johnson gets injured which would mean having to force two changes instead of one mid match ( Johnson for a cb and then move carragher out right)

davyjose

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I wasn't sure he would make it through the tournament anyway.

Fortunately for England, they have the invincible Ledley King to step in.

jesus_thats_gre

everdead.ie wrote: »

I wonder will capello think that he can't really play carragher there in case Johnson gets injured which would mean having to force two changes instead of one mid match ( Johnson for a cb and then move carragher out right)

That's a fairly reasonable point actually. I hadn't considering that.

everdead.ie

The worst thing is I can't think of an English right back of any note bar johnson

Mars Bar

everdead.ie wrote: »

The worst thing is I can't think of an English right back of any note bar johnson

Wes Brown but he's not long back from injury himself

Stevecw

everdead.ie wrote: »

The worst thing is I can't think of an English right back of any note bar johnson

There is none. Thats why it seemed Gary Neville was in the reckoning for a while.
I bet they wish Paul McShane was English!

_blank_

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Hmmm whatever about the argument of who should replace Rio, I think you are doing Johnson a major disservice.

Both himself and Carragher played in an out of sorts Liverpool team that were in disarray for large portions of the season. You are well aware of how many goals they conceeded in the first half of the season. For Liverpool to finish the season having only conceeded 3 goals more than Chelsea, who coincidently Terry and Cole play for.

A back line of:

Johnson

---

Carragher

---

Terry

---

Cole

is more than good enough to compete for the World Cup.

You make a good point, no doubt.

But the lack of goals conceded by Liverpool is also somewhat down to Formation too.

Their defence usually has 2 sitting in front of it, with one of those two (the one who isn't Masch) with a licence to get a bit further forward.

England lose out on this by playing 2 "strikers" and a 4-4-2.

A CH pairing of Terry and Carragher will be done for pace and this will force A Cole and Johnson into a more defensive minded game, because their pace will be needed to cover for the CHs, which will affect england's game further up the pitch, especially on the left.

England have no natural replacement for Ferdinand, they don't have another "ball playing" CH, and this will affect them all over the pitch.

TheSpecialOne

Delighted for Rio, he is useless and this allows a much better CH in Dawson to come in.At least he gets to avoid the drug testing now...;)

GLaDOS

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

At least he gets to avoid the drug testing now...;)

That was the problem in the first place

flahavaj

Centre bck is a massive worry for Capello now. ledley King is an amazing defender but you'd have to worry about him being able to maintain fitness throughout the tournament. A centre back pairing of Terry and Carragher is woefully short of pace as well as being very similar style defenders on paper, not to mention Carragher's poor enough form this seasonl. I like a centre back pairing to have one "stopper" and one more positionally astute defender, which England seem to lack now.

Dr. Nick

mixednuts wrote: »

Surely a major blow to England's chances ..or maybe not

Training ground injury ...


http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6191130,00.html

I vote this the funniest event of the year. He's probably actuallly crying right now, ugly fcuker.


At least he won't have to deal this ths embaressing sort of moment again.....

mormank

Ooohh potentially Carra at centre back now and Stevie G as captain! I think this makes England a far better candidate for winning the World Cup. Stevie should have been Engerlands captain for the past few years ahead of Terry anyway and Jamie arguably shouldve been starting for england anyway so now with things in proper order who knows what might happen!!

jesus_thats_gre

Des wrote: »

You make a good point, no doubt.

But the lack of goals conceded by Liverpool is also somewhat down to Formation too.

Their defence usually has 2 sitting in front of it, with one of those two (the one who isn't Masch) with a licence to get a bit further forward.

England lose out on this by playing 2 "strikers" and a 4-4-2.

A CH pairing of Terry and Carragher will be done for pace and this will force A Cole and Johnson into a more defensive minded game, because their pace will be needed to cover for the CHs, which will affect england's game further up the pitch, especially on the left.

England have no natural replacement for Ferdinand, they don't have another "ball playing" CH, and this will affect them all over the pitch.

All reasonable points too, Des. I guess it boils down to the formation that they are going to play. I have it in my head that he is going to see sense (I know more that Capello you see ) and play Rooney as the lead striker with Gerrard behind in ala Liverpool. I really do believe that it would be a devastating combination.

Saying that, it probably isn't going to happen and all your points will pan out, thus negate any chance they have to success. It's the lack of a real defensive midfielder that prevents them playing how I hoped they would.

Lukker-

mormank wrote: »

Ooohh potentially Carra at centre back now and Stevie G as captain! I think this makes England a far better candidate for winning the World Cup. Stevie should have been Engerlands captain for the past few years ahead of Terry anyway and Jamie arguably shouldve been starting for england anyway so now with things in proper order who knows what might happen!!

lolwut

Le King

mormank wrote: »

Ooohh potentially Carra at centre back now and Stevie G as captain! I think this makes England a far better candidate for winning the World Cup. Stevie should have been Engerlands captain for the past few years ahead of Terry anyway and Jamie arguably shouldve been starting for england anyway so now with things in proper order who knows what might happen!!

Carragher wouldn't be in the top 10 CH's in the Premier League and he is certainly not a better option to Rio. His form this year has been abysmal. Dawson, King, Upson, Rio and Terry are all far better options in that position that Carragher.

Only reason Carragher was picked is because the right back options are so poor for England. If Capello starts Carragher I would definitely be putting my money against England. Give Carragher a real attacking test and I guarantee he'll fail. Imagine Torres/Villa Vs Carra/Terry. That would be an absolute disaster for England.

jesus_thats_gre

Terry and Ferdinand are better options.. Claims that Dawson, King and Upson are better is quite the claim imo.

Mr.Nice Guy

"I bet they wish they had John O'Shea."

FatherTed

mormank wrote: »

Ooohh potentially Carra at centre back now and Stevie G as captain! I think this makes England a far better candidate for winning the World Cup. Stevie should have been Engerlands captain for the past few years ahead of Terry anyway and Jamie arguably shouldve been starting for england anyway so now with things in proper order who knows what might happen!!

You're funny...

If King is fit I think he'll start the USA game along side Terry. But knowing his inability to play again after a few days, Carragher or Upson will probably start their second game.

King is probably the fastest of the English CB's and they'll need him. I can see England having most of the possession but the US have shown the ability to track well and contain the other team's midfield as against Spain and Brazil in the Confed Cup last year. The US have some pacey players in Dempsey, Donovan and Altidore and they break very well. Dempsey and Donovan will probably start in the wide midfield positions will Altidore up top with one of Buddle/Findley(who's pacey). Dempsey/Donovan do a great job of cutting in the inside and receiving balls from the forwards and laying off or having a shot. It will be interesting if Capello will take this into account for this game.

davyjose

FatherTed wrote: »

You're funny...

If King is fit I think he'll start the USA game along side Terry. But knowing his inability to play again after a few days, Carragher or Upson will probably start their second game.

Stick King in the USA game, see how he goes. Skip him for the other two games, and bring him back for the knock-outs. he'll be well able for that. He stood up quite well at the end of this season, and if he can't handle 3 or 4 games, England would have to consider themselves unlucky.

abouttobebanned

http://qik.ly/BU8j1

Leiva

abouttobebanned wrote: »

http://qik.ly/BU8j1

How excited must he be ?

Probably have a great tournament now , funny how these things turn out .

everdead.ie

I have to say I'm delighted for Dawson he's such a nice guy as well always comes across so well. I hope he plays and does brilliantly.

kakee

Tottenham now have the most players in the England. Happy days

naughto

dawson is well worthy of his place snoop dog should stick to the djing.

dawson can be lazy tho

everdead.ie

Does Dawson get the number 5 now or do they promote king/carragher

Mr. Guappa

everdead.ie wrote: »

I have to say I'm delighted for Dawson he's such a nice guy as well always comes across so well. I hope he plays and does brilliantly.

I was just watching coverage of Englands training on Sky News there and the smile plastered all over Dawsons face was something else. It was a real breath of fresh air to see someone so happy to be there.

Delighted for the guy as well, he seems like a nice guy. I remember when Spurs had their night out in Coppers, some guys who were there commented that Dawson was so sound, chatting away to lads in the bar while most of the rest hung out in the VIP area.

naughto

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I was just watching coverage of Englands training on Sky News there and the smile plastered all over Dawsons face was something else. It was a real breath of fresh air to see someone so happy to be there.

Delighted for the guy as well, he seems like a nice guy. I remember when Spurs had their night out in Coppers, some guys who were there commented that Dawson was so sound, chatting away to lads in the bar while most of the rest hung out in the VIP area.

i seen that as well is good to see some one like him get a chance.even when he was in the airport he had a big smile on his face.it must be a bit weird for him meeting capallo knowing he is 2nd best to snoop dog

qwertplaywert

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Terry and Ferdinand are better options.. Claims that Dawson, King and Upson are better is quite the claim imo.

Fair enough on Dawson and Upson, but you'd find a large amount of people would [rightfully] consider King a better player than Ferdinand and Terry, not taking ability to stay fit into account

jesus_thats_gre

qwertplaywert wrote: »

Fair enough on Dawson and Upson, but you'd find a large amount of people would [rightfully] consider King a better player than Ferdinand and Terry, not taking ability to stay fit into account

I really rate King and have done so for many years. His injurry record however is a major black mark. If he stayed fit then I would likely rate him higher than Carragher but he hasn't and I will be surprised if he manages to maintain anything other than short term fitness in dribs and drabs.

As such, I don't think he should relied upon in a World Cup.

qwertplaywert

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I really rate King and have done so for many years. His injurry record however is a major black mark. If he stayed fit then I would likely rate him higher than Carragher but he hasn't and I will be surprised if he manages to maintain anything other than short term fitness in dribs and drabs.

As such, I don't think he should relied upon in a World Cup.

But a world cup seems a perfect enviornment for him, the games are spaced out, and if England win the first 2 games he could prob. be rested for the 3rd group game, meaning he has a much better chance of playing the rest of the games.
It is a shame indeed about his injurys, he could have been one of the all time greats otherwise. How he manages to turn in the performances he does with the condition he has is something special.

leninbenjamin

qwertplaywert wrote: »

Fair enough on Dawson and Upson, but you'd find a large amount of people would [rightfully] consider King a better player than Ferdinand and Terry, not taking ability to stay fit into account

Nah, he's not. He looks grand in the Prem where you're able to throw your weight about, but at the World Cup he'll but up against players who are technically better, and he looks pretty poor against that type of player tbh. Watch the Mexico friendly again, he continually got sucked in close to the player on the ball, gets skinned and then couldn't turn quick enough to recover.

pickarooney

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Nah, he's not. He looks grand in the Prem where you're able to throw your weight about, but at the World Cup he'll but up against players who are technically better, and he looks pretty poor against that type of player tbh. Watch the Mexico friendly again, he continually got sucked in close to the player on the ball, gets skinned and then couldn't turn quick enough to recover.

I'm never convinced by this argument. I reckon even a mid-table premiership side would beat the majority of national teams. This was a Mexico side one of whose star players couldn't cut it at Spurs, was it not?

Lukker-

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm never convinced by this argument. I reckon even a mid-table premiership side would beat the majority of national teams. This was a Mexico side one of whose star players couldn't cut it at Spurs, was it not?

Yeah and Pique is a United rejecect.

Sútalún

Probably a good thing..



In all fairness I think a combination of King and Dawson would the odd sprinkling of Carragher and Upson will be fairly solid. As good if not better than Rio.

eagle eye

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Nah, he's not. He looks grand in the Prem where you're able to throw your weight about, but at the World Cup he'll but up against players who are technically better, and he looks pretty poor against that type of player tbh. Watch the Mexico friendly again, he continually got sucked in close to the player on the ball, gets skinned and then couldn't turn quick enough to recover.

I disagree with almost everything you say here. I've always rated King and he would have been at United or Chelsea for the last number of years if it were not for his injury record. You say he throws his weight around, well he does have the strength but he also has great pace, he is an excellent tackler, he has great ball control and he reads the game so well. He has everything that you need in a central defender, he is one of those very rare players who is a complete centreback. He can play the Ferdinand/Carvalho/Puyol 'footballing' centreback role if you want him to, he can play the hard man centre back role too.
His career had been dogged by injuries and it will continue that way but if he is fit for the whole World Cup it hugely increases England's chances of going very, very deep.

leninbenjamin

eagle eye wrote: »

I disagree with almost everything you say here. I've always rated King and he would have been at United or Chelsea for the last number of years if it were not for his injury record. You say he throws his weight around, well he does have the strength but he also has great pace, he is an excellent tackler, he has great ball control and he reads the game so well. He has everything that you need in a central defender, he is one of those very rare players who is a complete centreback. He can play the Ferdinand/Carvalho/Puyol 'footballing' centreback role if you want him to, he can play the hard man centre back role too.
His career had been dogged by injuries and it will continue that way but if he is fit for the whole World Cup it hugely increases England's chances of going very, very deep.

He has great pace when he gets going, but he's slow to turn on the spot. All you need to do to beat him is to get close to him, make him commit and he wont be able to recover in time, whereas Ferdinand could. King looks great in the Prem because the football is much more direct, ball tends to be played in from deeper in the pitch so he can rely on his anticipation moreso. Play a short passing game in and around him and he'll struggle. I still rate him as a defender, but he's not the ideal player to play alongside a slow player like Terry.

eagle eye

leninbenjamin wrote: »

He has great pace when he gets going, but he's slow to turn on the spot. All you need to do to beat him is to get close to him, make him commit and he wont be able to recover in time, whereas Ferdinand could. King looks great in the Prem because the football is much more direct, ball tends to be played in from deeper in the pitch so he can rely on his anticipation moreso. Play a short passing game in and around him and he'll struggle. I still rate him as a defender, but he's not the ideal player to play alongside a slow player like Terry.

Get close to him and he will use his strength to keep you off the ball.

leninbenjamin

eagle eye wrote: »

Get close to him and he will use his strength to keep you off the ball.

Not if a player uses his technique to cause a quick change in direction.

eagle eye

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Not if a player uses his technique to cause a quick change in direction.

Oh come on, 9 times out of ten when a player tries that they either make a mess of it or lose control of the ball and it comes to nothing. And thats not including the times that its intercepted by another defender.

What you are saying here is that he is not going to stop a wonder goal.

leninbenjamin

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh come on, 9 times out of ten when a player tries that they either make a mess of it or lose control of the ball and it comes to nothing. And thats not including the times that its intercepted by another defender.

What you are saying here is that he is not going to stop a wonder goal.

:rolleyes: Blanco made an idiot of him an he didn't even have the ball at his feet, just changed the direction of his run behind the lines a few times and King couldn't adjust quickly enough.

eagle eye

leninbenjamin wrote: »

:rolleyes: Blanco made an idiot of him an he didn't even have the ball at his feet, just changed the direction of his run behind the lines a few times and King couldn't adjust quickly enough.

Every player makes mistakes, something tells me you are being very unreasonable here. Actually are you an Arsenal fan? That would explain it.

Edit: Went and checked and you are indeed an Arsenal.