Long Range Shooting .223 - 860yrds

vixdname

Howya lads,

Just looking at this vid, it pretty good, one question though...Does a .223 round move in an arc trajectory like can be seen in the video over longer distances or is it just the lie of the land in the video ? Your opinions ??????

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=7B9NkQldeu0&feature=related

Cass

Absolutely every bullet travels in an arc trajectory. The longer the distance the greater the arc-ed trajectory.

If you look at the red line the video maker edited in (1:54) you will see a bush at the top of the line. There is a larger "black" spot on the left and a smaller "black" spot on the right. Watch the target in the right side of the screen as he fires (2:03). You can see the wash of the bullet as it travels in its arc, just left of the larger "black" spot.

This is also visible during the next few shots (2:48 on). As you watch it again you will start to see the full wash (just below and left of the larger "black" spot) all the way to the target.

vixdname

I didnt know that all bullets travel in an arc, so rounds drop onto their target rather then travel parallel to the ground so to speak ?
I have read quite a lot of lads on this forum talk about the flat trajectory of the .17 round, is this simply because this round doesnt travel that far when compared to other rounds or is it a characteristic of the .17 round ?
So if I,m getting this right....a deer stalker shoots a deer at 500 yards..the round will hit the deer with the round coming in at a slight downward trajectory? Always ???

Cass

vixdname wrote: »

......., so rounds drop onto their target rather then travel parallel to the ground so to speak ?

Correct.

I have read quite a lot of lads on this forum talk about the flat trajectory of the .17 round, is this simply because this round doesnt travel that far when compared to other rounds or is it a characteristic of the .17 round ?

When someone refers to the "flat" trajectory of a round they are refering to the fact that the round, due to speed/BC, does not travel in quite a pronounced arc as other rounds. For example. The 6.5x55 is a flatter shooting round than the .308 round. To put it in real world application if you placed a target at 600yds and had both caliber rifles. Have both zeroed at 100yds. Now adjust the rifle (6.5x55) to shoot out to 600. You may use (depending on actual bullet of course) 12.5 moa of adjustment on your scope. Now with the .308 (also zeroed for 100yds) adjust for 600yds and you may use 14 to 15 moa to hit the same target.

The 6.5 round travels flatter and faster than the .308 and hence requires less upward elevation adjustment than the .308 round. If you could scale down the rifle and distance and had a "tracer" line coming from the barrel and scope you would see the bullet (when fired) coming out of the barrel, going up through the "line" of the scope and then out at 600yds impacting the target at the same point the scope is aimed at.

So if I,m getting this right....a deer stalker shoots a deer at 500 yards..the round will hit the deer with the round coming in at a slight downward trajectory? Always ???

Correct again. As said before the greater the distance the more/greater the arc. So at shorter distances (say 100yds to 200yds) the difference in the trajectory of the bullet is so little that you may only require 1 moa (4 clicks).


Hope i'm explaining this okay. You know how sometimes it seems clear in your head, but when typing it comes out a**e ways.

tac foley

Ezridax has it exactly right. When mention is made of a 'flat trajectory', what is actually meant is a 'flatTER' trajectory by comparison with another bullet's path.

Shooting my .451" Whitworth military match rifle at 900 yards, the bullet, a whopping 600gr flat-base hexagonal thing, has a trajectory high point of over 45 feet!

As the bullet slows down in flight, so the shape of the arc it describes in the air becomes more obvious - my .451" bullets bullets are coming down into the target at about 40-45 degrees to the horizontal at that range.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

vixdname

tac foley wrote: »

Ezridax has it exactly right. When mention is made of a 'flat trajectory', what is actually meant is a 'flatTER' trajectory by comparison with another bullet's path.

Shooting my .451" Whitworth military match rifle at 900 yards, the bullet, a whopping 600gr flat-base hexagonal thing, has a trajectory high point of over 45 feet!

As the bullet slows down in flight, so the shape of the arc it describes in the air becomes more obvious - my .451" bullets bullets are coming down into the target at about 40-45 degrees to the horizontal at that range.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Would like to see a photo of one of those rounds you have (Hexagonal ???), if you ever take a pic post it up, would like to see it !!

tac foley

vixdname wrote: »

Would like to see a photo of one of those rounds you have (Hexagonal ???), if you ever take a pic post it up, would like to see it !!

There y'are Mr Long - please post them up if you are able to do it.

The Whitworth rifle was the brainchild of Joseph Whitworth, the famous Victorian engineer [later knighted] who was the first person to measure a millionth of an inch using his patented thread-style micrometer. He was also the inventor of the Whitworth thread-form and the hexagonal nut, as well as the defining system of measurement in engineering that we call the Whitworth standards.

Plus a gazillion other stuff as well.

Best

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

pat58

This is the typical bullet flight path,bullet_trajectory2.jpg

meathshooter1

[QUOTE=....a deer stalker shoots a deer at 500 yards..the round will hit the deer with the round coming in at a slight downward trajectory? Always ???[/QUOTE]

a responsible deerstalker will take a shot at 200max or so

pat58

I think it was more wanting to know how a round would behave at 500 yards ,More so than shooting a deer at 500 yards,;)

vixdname

meathshooter1 wrote: »

a responsible deerstalker will take a shot at 200max or so

What do you make of those long range deer \ antelope shooting videos on you tube, you're talking 950 yrds plus...would like your opinion on below video and I've seen other videos where they're shooting out to 1200 yrds !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=_6rKgL75POo&feature=related

tac foley

Extremely unimpressed, me.

Shooting any animal at those outlandish ranges is simply using them as live targets, and not showing them any of the respect due to another living being.

Animals were not put there by the GFO to allow us to demonstrate what fabulous shots we are.

My $0.02

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

pat58

vixdname wrote: »

What do you make of those long range deer \ antelope shooting videos on you tube, you're talking 950 yrds plus...would like your opinion on below video and I've seen other videos where they're shooting out to 1200 yrds !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=_6rKgL75POo&feature=related

For the few successful youtube videos of shooting large game at them distances ,How many have gone wrong ,I would hate to imaging how many wounded animals are not shown:mad::mad: With deer stalking there has to be respect for what you are hunting.

vixdname

Gotta agree with you tac !

vixdname

With permission granted from tac, heres the rifle and round spoken about in post #7

pat58

Now thats a nice bit of kit, Respect to you tac

meathshooter1

vixdname wrote: »

What do you make of those long range deer \ antelope shooting videos on you tube, you're talking 950 yrds plus...would like your opinion on below video and I've seen other videos where they're shooting out to 1200 yrds !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=_6rKgL75POo&feature=related

doesn't impress me for me it the getting up as close as possible thats the hard bit

vixdname

As a non deer hunter \ stalker, thats what I would have thought too meathshooter1

pat58

Ill put it in very basic terms its called deer stalking not deer sniping ,;)

Tackleberrywho

meathshooter1 wrote: »

doesn't impress me for me it the getting up as close as possible thats the hard bit

I agree, Stalking is a skill in and of itself.
Some youtube is fine, but a load of stuff is dangerous or immoral.

Max range that is acceptable to shoot deer with an appropriate caliber in Ireland is ~300 yards +/-
The normal range would be 50-150yards.
A .223 is not the best for 860yards, but that is not to say it can not be done.

I have witnessed a .22lr bursting balloons on a 400 yard range in circa 2000/01.
All objects follow a trajectory as the world is curved, speed is a scalar quantity, Velocity is a vector quantity.(Side note:people often just refer to speed as they are not being very precise in measurement, the same way people refer to weight as 10kg however that is only the objects mass, weight is mass X gravity. The term newton is more often used in science engineering)

A bullet is referred to in velocity as it is curving as it travels.
Some of the best rounds I have seen for having a small curviture in trajectory are .243 .25/06 and .270.
These rounds were necked down from their parent cases to give a beter trajectory for people that prefer flatter shooting, and high use of energy on targets.

tac foley

The flattest-shooting projectile I never quite saw [for obvious reasons] was the latest version of the 120mm Long Rod Penetrator round fired from the Challenger tank main armament. Called the M829A2 120mm APFSDS-T (armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot-tracer), it weighs around 4.9kg and has a muzzle velocity of 1680m/s [5519 fps]. That comes to about 6.9 megajoules.

It has a mid-range trajectory when fired at 1500m of less than 25 centimetres.

The flight-time to a target 1500m distant is just under ONE second.

...but it still, as Tackleberry notes, behaves in exactly the same way as any other free-flight projectile.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

tac foley

pat58 wrote: »

Now thats a nice bit of kit, Respect to you tac

No respect needed, Pat, it's just a nice old thing to shoot. Sadly I'm about run out of these lovely bullets as the boys over in NM who made them have decided to call it a day - I'll have to go back to my 575gr home-cast 'plinkers' when they have all gone... : (

Best

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

gunhappy_ie

tac foley wrote: »

Shooting my .451"......

Imagine applying for a licence for that .... as the CS sees (if he even knows what it is) .451" rifle.... :eek::eek::eek: Declined !!!! haha

tac foley

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Imagine applying for a licence for that .... as the CS sees (if he even knows what it is) .451" rifle.... :eek::eek::eek: Declined !!!! haha

The original of my Parker-Hale replica was made in 1858. It shoots the 600gr bullet in the image at just over 1350 fps over 90gr of Swiss rifle BP [that's all my shoulder can stand these days, since I lost a lot of weight].

And to think that at one time the National Irish team were about to win the Creedmoor Cup - only one eejit putting his last shot on the wrong target stole it away from them. More, to think that it is as odd to some folks as a sun-lounger is to an Eskimo is passing strange to this old f*rt.

Bleeve it or not, Ireland has a long and distinguished history as a nation of rifle shots of the highest calibre [pun there, folks].

Take a look at the site of the Vintage Classic Rifle Association of Ireland [www.vcrai.com] and the fun THEY have with their vintage and classic military rifles over at the Midlands.

tac, off shooting again for the sixth time in a week....
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund