Sporting Fingal FC Supporters' Thread - IMPORTANT: Read Post #1

Lamper.sffc

ViperGTS wrote: »

(1)Great to know you're giving your input to the situation having been dragged to games by a mate that was a steward at games. Bore off and come back when you're info isn't from someone that feels hard done by because of a disagreement with one of the now infamous "Fingal 2". Why are people looking to be pm'd any info from last nights meeting? It wasn't a secret meeting, all info was given out to any one that was prepared to listen. We were given information regarding the final weeks of the clubs life from what I would consider a very honest and in my opinion heartbroken man.(2) Liam basically put the demise of the club down to the fact that we didn't have an owner. We had funding, all be it not on the scale of Gannon but it was money none the less and it would have got the ball rolling. (3) The new investor wasn't prepared to put his name down to ownership of the club for fear of potential losses. It was a what if situation really. Could have made a 100k, could have lost a 100k. What if he lost a million? He wasn't able to back that potential loss. (4)The council weren't going to put their name to a project that could potentially lose them money, mind you it was their project so something went wrong there. I might mention that with John O'Brien being a coinciller, he wasn't prepared to sit there and have the council talked about so he left the room while all questions were asked.(5) The club was told to cease trading by the council! Thats the way I see it. They were the majority share holder without Gannon and not being prepared to take ownership, they pulled the plug. (6)We were told by Conan himself, a man that put his every effort into the club, that Liam could not have done anything more. Liam wasn't the treasurer or one of the 3 commercial managers we had so I can't see how he can be blamed. (7) This project was way ahead in its planning and was stopped in its tracks prematurely by what I can say is a council with underlying issues that they won't care to disclose. I have no fear of naming anyone on this forum so i have aired my feelings. (8) Regarding the sale of Shauny. The club were offered a joke of a fee for a player that was voted Young player of the year. I don't know the exact fee but I think it was less than what was offered for Madden. Celtic knew our financial plight and took advantage of it. Anyone on here that posts is entitled to their opinion and this is mine. Feel free to debate or question what you will.

(1)Ok first off Vip. The lad is entitled to his opinion and also to put up whatever info regarding what he knows, so can we please lay off. If you disagree then fine but getting a little personal helps nobody.

(2)Of course he did. He isnt going to blame himself is he. The fact will always remain that if their was better control on the finances then we wouldnt have been in this mess. We can talk all we want about sponsors pulling out and gannon gone and blame these reasons and they are reasons but they aint all the reasons are they. The Buckley and O Brien spent recklessly and never planned ahead. It was known for a year Gannon was going and no cut backs where made. It was known for at least a month their was doubt over the new finances and still players and staff where brought in.

(3) Why was he so fearful. Do you think that maybe our budget was a little high. Speaks volumes to me. Wasnt willing to put his name to it because it was a gamble. It didnt have to be a gamble if we had cut our cost accordingly. Bray stayed up with less average crowds than us and on a small budget. No reason we couldnt have done the same. Everything that was done in the last couple of months was all just a gamble to try and maintain fingal at the top. Dublin city did it FAILED, Shels did it ultimately FAILED and now Languishing in the 1st. Bohs are still in serious trouble, Drog, galway, rovers the list is endless and yet we thought we could do the same and get away with it.

(4) Thats just it. The final nail in the coffin was them pulling out but the fact that SF became such liability in the first place is the Fingal Two's fault. They made it extremely difficult for the council to justify having the club keep going. I still think they should have stuck with us but in the end the running of the club was so shambolic they pulled back from it.

(5) Again thats what happened right at the end but its not the full story. They pulled the plug after everything else that happend. It seems to me that there is some serious blame shifting happening here. Yes the council have certain responsiblities not to wind us up but so did the management in as far as not letting the club get to this point where the council wouldnt back us.

(6) Conan is honourable and I doubt the club would have had even half the success we had without him both on and off the pitch and when it comes to Buckley I also have no doubt that he tried everything he thought was right for the club. I also dont doubt bucko and his love for the club. I do doubt his decision making and I think he let the money and chance of honours cloud his judgement and when it came to financial matters he did have a lot of pull believe me. There is a lot more I could say on that but I wont.

(7) The project was ahead of its planning because we had seriously good backing finacially. We spent this money on some of the best players in the league. In actual fact an argument could be made to say we underachieved considering the backing we had. It also depends on what you class as being ahead. If its just what was happening on the field then yes, but if it was in terms of our community work and integrating our club into the community then we where miles behind and that was the ethos the club was founded on. This was why the council where involved to begin with. The councill where now faced with a club that could potentially run up massive debts no backer and they where not even playing in fingal. Not really the idea they had in mind for the club was it. Again I will still point out that I still think they could have backed a new entity instead of pulling out all together but the antics of the people in charge of our club made that very difficult.

(8) It doesnt matter what fee was offered and as you say you dont know how much and think it was less than madden. We where in major trouble and there was no way we should have held onto him no matter how much was offered. With the funding in major trouble, and they new this when the offer for williams was made they should have been snapping celtics hands off. In fact it should never have even got that far as a lot of the players should have been touted around other clubs well before we even got to this point. Bucko tried to keep the squad together so he could still push for europe and he was even talking about champions league football to help finance the club. When have we heard all that before. (Shels, Dub City, Bohs) He gambled and it didnt pay off. Fact.


Vips. Im not really trying to get at you personally but we have been lied to. You where even starting to believe that yourself after the meeting a few weeks back. The two in charge will do anything at this point to deflect the blame. Their careers will be marred by the carry on at our club so they are trying to deflect the blame. I dont feel there is anything they will say that could possible change my view on the fact that they along with other situations are to blame for the demise of our club. But please dont insult mine and other peoples intelligence by trying to tell me they are the innocent people in all this. I aint buying and I dont think you should either.

Im probably now in you bad books, so sorry for that but I cant just sit here and say nothing.

At the end of the day. A lot of people have made some major mistakes and now fingal fans dont have a club.

ViperGTS

Not in my bad books at all pal. As i said, people have their own opinion/view on things and that was mine. I never insulted anyone's intelligence or called anyone a liar here. I don't have any info from inside the club as to how things were run and who spent what. What I posted is what I was told and I find it hard to believe that 2 men led us to our demise. A lot of factors were involved in the situation and all be it people might have gotten ahead of themselves but isn't that what a board is in place for? I apologise for my rant in the beginning but it annoyed me to read someone giving their views on what went on having said they were dragged to games. Regarding the fee from Celtic. It was quoted as barely enough to cover his wages and wouldn't have made a huge difference to the club.

fingalgooner

The fact of the matter is that the club could have been downsized. Wages reduced: now when I mention wages reduced it was mooted back last March; last fookin March, that a reduction should have been put in place; only to be received by an enfatic NO!
The move to Dalymount? Why? It's not like we were filling Morton week in week out. But there were signs of improvement, the last game against U.C.D. was to be a show case -and it was- to get more up to Morton. Do not be deluded by the 'we had no other choice' nonsense. Why did we move and take on a rental charge almost three times the amount of what we were being charged in Morton. And no do not come back at me with, as I said earlier, 'we had no other choice'. We did. We could have stayed at Morton. Fact. No nonsense about the licencing. We would have been getting it anyway.
The: 'Well we can get the Boh's fans in when they are playing away.'
Bollix: Boh's, and no disrespect to them, were not getting their own fans in last year so how the hell were we supposed to get them in?
A player getting offered a 2year 52 week contract? When all around us were offering 42 week/1 year contracts. Even the Champions.
Expenditure was increasing despite the loss of Gannon. Now that IS mis-mangagement. And as for the board? It had more or less disolved because of the attitude of negligence by those who sought to gamble with the club.
Simple maths: less money, less expenditure. If you suddenly had your wages cut in half, would you go out and put your mortgage repayments on the spin of the ball on a roulette table that is European football. Would you get your kitchen re-styled and a new extension put on the house.
No. You come home and you look at what needs to be cut and you cut it.
Gambling was what led to this, nothing else.
It reminds of them ol' boys you see in pubs sipping pints and tellin' all around them that will listen to their prattling; 'that if only things had of been different I wouldn't be here I would be a better man.' Bollix. You learn from your mistakes not wallow in them.

Lamper.sffc

ViperGTS wrote: »

Not in my bad books at all pal. As i said, people have their own opinion/view on things and that was mine. I don't have any info from inside the club as to how things were run and who spent what. What I posted is what I was told and I find it hard to believe that 2 men led us to our demise. A lot of factors were involved in the situation and all be it people might have gotten ahead of themselves but isn't that what a board is in place for? I apologise for my rant in the beginning but it annoyed me to read someone giving their views on what went on having said they were dragged to games.

Fair enough lad. I do know some of what was going on. Its why it discusts me so much to see what happened and how it happened. There are a lot of factors that took the club down but there where two who miss managed the sh1t out of it. Make no mistake. Things could have been done to prevent this.

The simple fact even without knowing the background stuff are still out there for everybody to see though.

1) Gannon departure known about a year ago or at least in major doubt.

2) Club continues to bring in players and fail to cut back or at least try to prepare for the day he goes.

3) When he does go, The management fail to try and release players in the hope we will find funding from somewhere.

4) Potential funding found and management start to bring in players. We pay up front for Dalymount, aparently pay a small fee for bolger, Give Gary O Neil a two year contract that is a fulltime 52 weeks a year contract:eek: and rumours of other costly enough players to come on board. All this with what we are told is a budget that is much less than previous?

5) Fingal independant reports that the new funding from england is in doubt. article is given validation by quotes from O Brien on the matter.

6) Even after the doubt about our new funding we continue to be linked to players, some of which played in our one game this year (Oman for example) What where these lads told I wonder, to make them think they could be signed? We also bring in a new finacial manager. Ironic really because we could have done with him well before this, not that the Fingal Two would have listened.

7) New financial backer pulls out and we have 13 (correct me if im wrong) players still under contract. When we had originally only 9 at seasons end (again correct me if im wrong)

8) Council pulls the plug because they dont want the financial burden of having to pay off 13 players contracts. Not just because of the money im guessing but also because they couldnt be seen to be putting tax money into the club, especially in todays climate and with the election coming up.

9) Last but not least. The players, staff, fans and all the good community work gets shafted by miss management (Fingal Two) and a council too scared to back what at its heart was a good project.

Shame on all of them

Lamper.sffc

ViperGTS wrote: »

Regarding the fee from Celtic. It was quoted as barely enough to cover his wages and wouldn't have made a huge difference to the club.

Just on this new bit. Your right this one deal would not have saved the club but its an example of the mentality of the people in charge that they seen fit not to let any of the contracted players go. I wonder how Williams felt on the matter when the club refused to let him go (funding in doubt I might add) and a week or two later they where handing him his notice. Nice stuff

Dodge

ViperGTS wrote: »

Regarding the fee from Celtic. It was quoted as barely enough to cover his wages and wouldn't have made a huge difference to the club.

Don't want to butt in to what is an excelelnt discussion, but wouldn't selling for the cost of his wages mean saving twice his wages? For example if he was on 40k and Celtic offered 40k, that'd mean a net gain of 80k for Fingal? Thats not unsubstantial in our league

Pineapple stu

Did you say all this at the meeting last night lads?

As for Williams, in the papers today it says that he has turned down a move to Celtic .

ViperGTS

Whatever questions I had were asked by myself or others at the meeting. I was given answers and lies or not, they were answers. Obviously there are people that know more than I do and have many more questions than I do but for the people that were there, they could have asked more if they were in doubt.

Paulw

I was told that Gannon offered to put money in the club this year, but was turned away due to a difference of opinion.

The players offered to take a pay cut, to keep the club going.

The offer from Celtic was pathetic. Not fully sure that Shauny really wanted to go anyway.

The club believed that funding was secured, but this major backer got late cold feet and pulled out. Then a second large backer also dropped out. Too much of a loss of funding too near the start of the season.

Getting a license for Morton would have been almost impossible. That, I heard, from someone who is involved in the license application process. We were granted exceptions for the previous seasons, and the FAI were fed up. This echoes what John O'Brien said at the supporters meeting. At a real stretch, the FAI might have granted one final exception, but that would have been pushing it.

Paulw

Pineapple stu wrote: »

As for Williams, in the papers today it says that he has turned down a move to Celtic .

Yeah, I don't think Shauny was all that keen on Celtic. I don't think the terms offered to him (personal terms) were good, and the business terms (to Fingal) were terrible.

Dodge wrote: »

Don't want to butt in to what is an excelelnt discussion, but wouldn't selling for the cost of his wages mean saving twice his wages? For example if he was on 40k and Celtic offered 40k, that'd mean a net gain of 80k for Fingal? Thats not unsubstantial in our league

From what I heard, they didn't even offer that amount. The offer was less than his wages.

FINGAL FAN

I was at the meeting last night and while I dont intend to write too much I will say I got answers as to why our club no longer exists and i'm satisfied I know the story now. Also lads posting up stuff about the "Fingal Two" havent got the full story .

ViperGTS

Thanks Fingal Fan.

dsmythy

Who was this backer from England anyway? Probably can't really be named although they have the right to put in money or not if they so choose so nobody would be saying a libellous word about them since theres no animosity towards them.

Beasty

I've just deleted a very large number of posts made during the course of today

There must be no speculation, no provision of "inside information" from whatever source, no unfounded accusations against identifiable individuals and no bickering, otherwise infractions/bans will be given, and the thread may be permanently locked

Thanks

Beasty

Luttrell1975

Ok no names and no bickering (I was avoiding it anyway)

Whether anyone wants to call it a fact or an opinion I don't care. But these are the things that are amazing.

With the certainty of the funding drying up -no effort was made to downsize the wage costs. With the same certainty two players were being signed!!! With the same certainty the GM was changed. With the same certainty the club took umbridge at Celtic's offer instead of negotiating. With the knowledge that the prospective new backer was nervous of taking on large losses someone made a press release to the FI local newspaper explaining the delayed wages.

You couldnt make it up. The Board of the club must have been incompetant to an alarming degree. You wouldnt put these boys in charge of a Friday poker game. Where was the "football plan" and the community development from the 26% shareholding of Fingal Council.

JRCC

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Ok no names and no bickering (I was avoiding it anyway)

Whether anyone wants to call it a fact or an opinion I don't care. But these are the things that are amazing.

With the certainty of the funding drying up -no effort was made to downsize the wage costs. With the same certainty two players were being signed!!! With the same certainty the GM was changed. With the same certainty the club took umbridge at Celtic's offer instead of negotiating. With the knowledge that the prospective new backer was nervous of taking on large losses someone made a press release to the FI local newspaper explaining the delayed wages.

You couldnt make it up. The Board of the club must have been incompetant to an alarming degree. You wouldnt put these boys in charge of a Friday poker game. Where was the "football plan" and the community development from the 26% shareholding of Fingal Council.

That sounds like a logical bit of analysis to me. Well done.

JohnNightmare

i havent posted in here in a while cause i was/still am prity down over my club being gone but i just want to have my little rant for yous to read and see if i can make anyone look at the situation a different way.

1st thing first, i was at the meeting last night and liam buckley showed up, we all thaught it would just be conan ( liam,conan and bren was there), every question he was asked he answered without hesitation and you could see the dissapointment in his face and you could hear it in his voice, he was gutted! he loved starting sporting fingal from scratch. he told us hand on his heart there was nothing he could do about it he was told the club was gone and that was it, he had no say in the matter.
we had 3 different commercial managers from 2007-2010 there job was to get sponsors and funds etc for the club do you think they did great work for sporting fingal fc? ( answer the question urselfs i dont want arguements ) wont drop names if you know who they are thats grand, make up your own mind about them. liam was the manger, did he do a great job with sporting fingal? year 1 finished 4th, year 2 got promoted to the premier division and won the fai cup and year 3/last season of sporting fingal we finished 4th, 5points off the top.

2nd, could it have been advoided? maybe yes maybe no, look lads what was our great 1liner we had last season..... "it is what it is!;)"

3th, im sure the players wer gutted too, but most of them have moved on to different clubs now and more are in talks with other clubs and i hope liam buckley gets a job back in management in the near future, same goes for the other members of staff. i suggest we move on too, from a personal level fingal were my 1st loi following if u like, now im hooked, il be goin to different loi grounds through out 2011 to follow irish football, i wont become a fan of any other club simply cause i wish and belive there will be another sporting fingal in the future but hopefull they will last longer and be a solid team for decades.

i know there are other posters saying our buissness plain was all wrong and the people running the show were useless and they shouldent be in charge of a friday night poker game let alone a football club... and they are probobly spot on but i am just talking purely from a fan of sporting fingal fc. it has been said countless times we played some of the best football in the league and thats a credit to the players and staff.

to end my rant i will just like too remind you of the little phrase "it is better to have loved and lost than never have loved at all ":p sporting fingal wer my team, we played and won/lost and drew in some great matches in the 1st and premier division and played in the europa league and won the fai cup in 3 short seasons, no regrets from me, happy times and happy memories:)

reading back over this i still got a lump in my throat

ps drogheda united fans, you should thank every fingal/ex fingal fan u meet, thanks to us you are back in the premier division for 2011:p

also shamrock rovers fans..... you never bet us:D:D:D

Pineapple stu

Spot on.

Where were half these posters when the club was doing good? its funny how they come out the woodwork and post like they are in the know now the club has gone.

To John and Liam and all the backroom staff and players and officials and fans , Thanks for the good times.
FINGAL TILL I DIE.

Lamper.sffc

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Spot on.

Where were half these posters when the club was doing good? its funny how they come out the woodwork and post like they are in the know now the club has gone.

To John and Liam and all the backroom staff and players and officials and fans , Thanks for the good times.
FINGAL TILL I DIE.

Well I can only speak for myself but iv been there from the start and here. And im only saying it like I see it. I retract nothing iv said and wouldnt expect anyone else to either. Whether for or against. But how about actually debating some of the points made. Its true there are a few who have come on recently to have their say. But are they making it up? Is what they are saying not true. Does some of the points made ring true?

John n, Fair play to you. I dont completely agree with all you have said there but at least its your opinion and I believe an honest one at that but I suppose like a lot of us you dont have all the facts. Anyway all the best.

FINGAL FAN

John Nightmare. Terrific post from the heart. I have said all I intend to say about the meeting on Wednesday night and the shock of losing the club we love is probably subsiding now.
The supporters group have decided to run a bus to a LOI game each week this season. Not to support any team but to allow us to get our weekly live football "fix" and to attempt to continue the friendships and chamaraderie developed over the last 3 years . I would be interested in your views on this or anyone interested can PM me.
Our players seem to be scattering to various clubs and this will be a way of keeping touch with and supporting players who have been great for us.

Corsendonk

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Questions was asked at nearly every council meeting. I thought with you being a councilor you would know this. There are a few there that was against Sporting Fingal from day one and tried their best to run it down. I bet Clare Daly is happy now she got what she wanted.

I must have missed that election! A case of mistaken identity.


Some great posts from Sporting Fingal Supporters. Any of you guys thought about writting a book on the whole topic?

JRCC

Corsendonk wrote: »

Any of you guys thought about writting a book on the whole topic?

Yep.;)

CiaraBohs

sorry to see fingal go

Pineapple stu

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Well I can only speak for myself but iv been there from the start and here. And im only saying it like I see it. I retract nothing iv said and wouldnt expect anyone else to either. Whether for or against. But how about actually debating some of the points made. Its true there are a few who have come on recently to have their say. But are they making it up? Is what they are saying not true. Does some of the points made ring true?

John n, Fair play to you. I dont completely agree with all you have said there but at least its your opinion and I believe an honest one at that but I suppose like a lot of us you dont have all the facts. Anyway all the best.

Lamps, i know full well how long you have been here. Nobody has suggested that you or anyone else retract what they have said. There is nothing to debate at this stage, everything has been said and there isnt a point in trying to convert others to our thoughts on the matter as everyone has their own opinions regardless of what is said on here.
You have your opinion on it based on the info you have been fed and on what you know and the same for myself. Im not claiming that my opinion is the gospel nor am i claiming that yours isnt.
You are coming across like you think im against you for some reason which isnt the case.

Pineapple stu

Corsendonk wrote: »

I must have missed that election! A case of mistaken identity.


Some great posts from Sporting Fingal Supporters. Any of you guys thought about writting a book on the whole topic?

Fair enough, just going by a post on a diffrent thread where you claim to be a certain councillor

santry_goonshow

I have a problem with what John Nightmare and Fingalfan wrote above. You guys told us you were at this meeting but not really what was said, just that it was explained to you why the club went out of business. I am really happy you lads accept the reasons. If they are the same ones in the papers then they are excuses.

Anyone claiming that people who "didnt post here" when the club was doing well should look up the phrase ad hominem and see if thats what you really want to do. On the other hand what do you call people who show up only when things are going well?

Lamper and Luttrell are the two who are showing most willingness to get to the bottom of why the club went out of business even with Gannon going he was willling to give some funding. Why wasnt something done earlier instead of the lame excuse that "we simply ran out of time"?

At the end of the day the thing I feel most let down about is that the club was just as mediocre as the rest of the LOI. No reality kicking in once the bug of success had bitten too early.

Buckley did a fine job. But the club was able to get him most or all of the players he ever wanted. If we measure him against the football plan he keeps speaking about lets see how good he did in a years time, or two years.

Pineapple stu

No matter what the club says, some will call it excuses if they dont agree with it.
Once you get to the bottom of why the club folded, then what? Some only want to be proved right no matter what the reason was.
You cant expect the lads to post word for word on what was said.

JohnNightmare

santry_goonshow wrote: »

no.1I have a problem with what John Nightmare and Fingalfan wrote above. You guys told us you were at this meeting but not really what was said, just that it was explained to you why the club went out of business. I am really happy you lads accept the reasons. If they are the same ones in the papers then they are excuses.

Anyone claiming that people who no.2"didnt post here" when the club was doing well should look up the phrase ad hominem and see if thats what you really want to do. On the other hand what do you call people who show up only when things are going well?

no.3Lamper and Luttrell are the two who are showing most willingness to get to the bottom of why the club went out of business even with Gannon going he was willling to give some funding. Why wasnt something done earlier instead of the lame excuse that "we simply ran out of time"?

At the end of the day the thing I feel most let down about is that the club was just as mediocre as the rest of the LOI. No reality kicking in once the bug of success had bitten too early.

Buckley did a fine job. But the club was able to get him most or all of the players he ever wanted. If we measure him against the football plan he keeps speaking about lets see how good he did in a years time, or two years.

no1, i went to the meeting for my own information.

no.2 i think he ment half of them never posted in the this section utill we wer in trouble, ie. they never posted great game tonite or yous wer unlucky tonite probly cause they never went to a game in the 1st place, they only post now looking for info to bad mouth sporting fingal.

no.3 they are not trying to get to the bottom of anything they are just posting on a forum! if they care that much they would have either been at the meeting or gone to fingal co co and ask them why the club was folded.

The Hill Billy

I'm thinking that this thread his heading into 'dead horse' territory. I leave it open for tonight to see if anything worthwhile comes up for discussion. If not, we'll close it.

HB

santry_goonshow

Pineapple stu wrote: »

1. No matter what the club says, some will call it excuses if they dont agree with it.
2. Once you get to the bottom of why the club folded, then what? 3. Some only want to be proved right no matter what the reason was.
4. You cant expect the lads to post word for word on what was said.

1. No, I am asking if those going to the meeting heard any better explanations
2. I was made promises with this club. Promises that were not delivered. That might be good enough for you, good luck to you. That's then what.
3. At every juncture I have asked others with better info to post it or give an opinion. Don't twist my intentions please.
4. Never asked anyone to write explanations as you claim "word for word". I asked for whether the explanations to the serious questions about the sanity of the club in the close season could be addressed. So did others.