Sporting Fingal FC Supporters' Thread - IMPORTANT: Read Post #1

santry_goonshow

JohnNightmare wrote: »

no1, i went to the meeting for my own information.

no.2 i think he ment half of them never posted in the this section utill we wer in trouble, ie. they never posted great game tonite or yous wer unlucky tonite probly cause they never went to a game in the 1st place, they only post now looking for info to bad mouth sporting fingal.

no.3 they are not trying to get to the bottom of anything they are just posting on a forum! if they care that much they would have either been at the meeting or gone to fingal co co and ask them why the club was folded.

1. Does you going to the meeting for your own information mean that you dont share what you learned? I am waiting to hear anything that addresses the sanity of the close season

2. I recognise all the posters here talking about Sporting Fingal at some stage. I was working in South Africa and Saudi Arabia in 2009-2010 so lost touch a little bit and didnt post because I didnt see games. I was at Sporting Fingal's first matches, a friendly and then the game v Limerick 37 at Morton. Ask other posters if they remember me posting for two years solid in 2008 and 2009

3. A lot of people here want to know why the club folded and why nothing was done to help the club at least survive.

I'm not into the "better to have loved and lost" tosh. I'm into, live by your promises and if you don't then be ready to be brought to account.

Pineapple stu

The club folded because it had no owner. The new investor was prepared to put in the money but not prepared to be put down as the owner of the club incase of liability for any losses made. The council for roughly the same reason .This was mentioned a few pages ago. In my opinion only, i feel the council should have stepped up to the mark seeing that it was supposed to be their baby and a community club. In better financial times then maybe things would be different. The council alone can only confirm if they did or didnt and the council is not just one man and the same for the investor that pulled out last minute.
As far as im concerned John and Liam did all they could and deserve praise rather than be criticised.

Santry, you say that nothing was done to keep the club alive, i can tell you that every effort was made until the last possible moment.

santry_goonshow

Pineapple stu wrote: »

The club folded because it had no owner. The new investor was prepared to put in the money but not prepared to be put down as the owner of the club incase of liability for any losses made. The council for roughly the same reason . In my opinion only, i feel the council should have stepped up to the mark seeing that it was supposed to be their baby and a community club. In better financial times then maybe things would be different. The council alone can only confirm if they did or didnt and the council is not just one man and the same for the investor that pulled out last minute.
As far as im concerned John and Liam did all they could and deserve praise rather than be criticised.

Santry, you say that nothing was done to keep the club alive, i can tell you that every effort was made until the last possible moment.

I am aware of all that, nothing factually wrong with what you said except for the things that you omit.

Somewhere along the line they must have realised a grave risk to the clubs future as Gannon was heading into Nama. At this point the club had two choices:
(a) Scale down and sell a few players and find a low-risk owner
(b) Get a new investor

If (b) was looking like it wouldnt work then contingency plans needed to be made for (a). These boys did neither. You might know them personally and I dont which is making you see it from their point of view. I am seeing it purely as the survival of the club, the promise made in 2007.

Pineapple stu

santry_goonshow wrote: »

1. No, I am asking if those going to the meeting heard any better explanations
2. I was made promises with this club. Promises that were not delivered. That might be good enough for you, good luck to you. That's then what.
3. At every juncture I have asked others with better info to post it or give an opinion. Don't twist my intentions please.
4. Never asked anyone to write explanations as you claim "word for word". I asked for whether the explanations to the serious questions about the sanity of the club in the close season could be addressed. So did others.

What promises was made to you?

santry_goonshow

Pineapple stu wrote: »

What promises was made to you?

A club for people communities in this area
A sustainable club with if I am not wrong "a team of investors" with a long-term committment
A massive boost to local clubs and the NDSL and a football development plan to increase the number and quality of players
A stadium
A centre of excellence

Pineapple stu

santry_goonshow wrote: »

I am aware of all that, nothing factually wrong with what you said except for the things that you omit.

Somewhere along the line they must have realised a grave risk to the clubs future as Gannon was heading into Nama. At this point the club had two choices:
(a) Scale down and sell a few players and find a low-risk owner
(b) Get a new investor

If (b) was looking like it wouldnt work then contingency plans needed to be made for (a). These boys did neither. You might know them personally and I dont which is making you see it from their point of view. I am seeing it purely as the survival of the club, the promise made in 2007.

You can only sell players to someone that wants to buy a player under contract . No league of Ireland club would do that and a club like celtic was only trying to take advantage with their measly offer which im glad the club refused as it wont do our league any good if clubs across the water offer pitance for our best players knowing it will be accepted.
Sporting had qualified for europe, what good would it do us and the league if we went and played with an under strength team and be humiliated home and away? an investor was got but not an owner.
Its easy enough to post on here that nobody did this and that and try and point the finger of blame at people when you dont know exactly what was done to try and save the club. You are only going by assumptions.

Pineapple stu

santry_goonshow wrote: »

A club for people communities in this area
A sustainable club with if I am not wrong "a team of investors" with a long-term committment
A massive boost to local clubs and the NDSL and a football development plan to increase the number and quality of players
A stadium
A centre of excellence

You got a club,
A "Team of investors " was there .
There was a boost to the local clubs within the NDSL
The stadium was put on hold for financial reason beyond the clubs control. You cant expect them to just build a stadium within three years and in the middle of a recession.
I see the Lusk project will go ahead at some stage down the line and again that was beyond the control of the club.

Was these made as " Promises" or just a plan of what was wanted ?

Lamper.sffc

And even after another 15 to 20 posts. None of the pro management crowd will inform us of what was said at the meeting. And none will actually debate any of the valid points made by myself and others. Iv said in here that it wasnt just Buckley's fault or O Briens and that yes the Council has some responsibilty. But to think that The two I refer to have no responsibilty is laughable to say the least. Lads you are convincing nobody. Take any of the points iv made and discount them. Give me some valid counter point. As apposed to the deflection tactics that are coming out. I challenge any one of you to take my earlier posts and debate them directly. Lets cut the childish crap and actually do this right or do we not want the truth.

As iv posted earlier, you didnt have to have insider info to realise what was going on was not quite right.

Lamper.sffc

Pineapple stu wrote: »

(1)The club folded because it had no owner. (2)The new investor was prepared to put in the money but not prepared to be put down as the owner of the club incase of liability for any losses made. (3) The council for roughly the same reason .This was mentioned a few pages ago. (4) In my opinion only, i feel the council should have stepped up to the mark seeing that it was supposed to be their baby and a community club. (5) In better financial times then maybe things would be different. (6)The council alone can only confirm if they did or didnt and the council is not just one man and the same for the investor that pulled out last minute.
(7)As far as im concerned John and Liam did all they could and deserve praise rather than be criticised.

(8) Santry, you say that nothing was done to keep the club alive, i can tell you that every effort was made until the last possible moment.

(1)It was known for a year gannon would be gone. What plans where put in place to counter the fact he would not be around. And if you say you dont know, then what plans do you think should have been put in place?

(2) Why do you think the new investor was so nervous, and why do you think they ultimately pulled the plug?

(3) Why do you think the council felt this way? And is there any reason the club gave them reason to feel this way?

(4) It was to be Buckley s and the councils baby as you put it. You and everybody else know that the council could not be seen to put money into the club. Actually you and I both argued this point on numerous occasions. Yes the council pulled out and they should have had the guts to stick with what is a good project but at this stage it was so far beyond what it was supposed to be they really couldnt justify the club to the public anymore given the present climate and the complete miss-management of the club.

(5) Financial times we where all aware of, except it seems the people Iv mentioned at Fingal. They knew the times where hard and still proceeded on the same path that destroyed Dub City and the others iv mentioned. As a former Dub city supporter yourself I would have thought you would have learnt from this.

(6) Again the council and what they did is the last paragraph in a sad and depressing tale. But what are the reasons that led us to this point. These can not be discounted. And can we stop this miss-truth that the potential backer pulled out last minute. As I posted earlier and it seems to be ignored. The backer was in doubt 3 to 4 weeks ago. Something O Brien himself confirmed in the indo and ultimately came to pass as we proceeded with our plan of implosion.

(7) With this all I will say is REALLY:eek:

(8) As far as im concerned, things where only done at the last possible moment and not one second before

Lamper.sffc

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Lamps, i know full well how long you have been here. (1)Nobody has suggested that you or anyone else retract what they have said. (2)There is nothing to debate at this stage, everything has been said and there isnt a point in (3) trying to convert others to our thoughts on the matter as everyone has their own opinions regardless of what is said on here.
(4)You have your opinion on it based on the info you have been fed and on what you know and the same for myself. Im not claiming that my opinion is the gospel nor am i claiming that yours isnt.
(5)You are coming across like you think im against you for some reason which isnt the case.

(1) I didnt say they should. Im just talking here. Calm down buddy;)

(2) There is something to debate. Otherwise there wouldnt be any conversation for the last 2 to 3 pages then would there.

(3) Then dont worry about it Stu. As according to your statement Im not convincing anybody as they have already made up there minds. Nothing to worry about so.

(4) Tbh. Its not fed info and a lot of my opinion is based on what is out there for all to read. I outlined it in a post earlier. It really doesnt need some insider info to realise the miss-management.

(5) Ill let others decide on that.

Lamper.sffc

Pineapple stu wrote: »

You got a club,
A "Team of investors " was there .
There was a boost to the local clubs within the NDSL
The stadium was put on hold for financial reason beyond the clubs control. You cant expect them to just build a stadium within three years and in the middle of a recession.
I see the Lusk project will go ahead at some stage down the line and again that was beyond the control of the club.

Was these made as " Promises" or just a plan of what was wanted ?

A club that would last longer than 3 years thank you

What boost? Explain please

Yes the stadium was put on hold beyond the clubs control but could some of our investment not gone into some infrastructure for the club?

A move you where totally against.

Lamper.sffc

JohnNightmare wrote: »

no1, i went to the meeting for my own information.

no.2 i think he ment half of them never posted in the this section utill we wer in trouble, ie. they never posted great game tonite or yous wer unlucky tonite probly cause they never went to a game in the 1st place, they only post now looking for info to bad mouth sporting fingal.

no.3 they are not trying to get to the bottom of anything they are just posting on a forum! if they care that much they would have either been at the meeting or gone to fingal co co and ask them why the club was folded.

Then share it mate. Why not?

As said already. Does that make what they said untrue. Attack the post not the poster. And also lets not make any mistake hear. Its not an attack on the club. Its simply questioning the actions of the people who ran it into the ground.

There are a lot of people who cared and where not at the meeting. The meeting is not a yard stick on who cared and who didnt and any views by people should not be discounted on whether they where there or not. This is a forum for fingal discussion and therefore, people who wish to discuss why the club ultimately failed should be allowed to do so. If you dont like it simple dont read it but please dont discount peoples views based on a meeting that the majority of fingal supporters did not attend.

Pineapple stu

Lamps, why are you having a pop at those you stood with at the games?

What was said at the meeting has already been posted , if you chose to ignore it or if its not up to your satisfaction then so be it but it was posted as good as could be.

A lot of your questions can be answered by the person you are friends with but at the same time take anything you hear with a pinch of salt and be prepared to listen to all sides .

What move was i against? You have changed a lot regarding the club since it was announced that we were to play in Dalymount and even thought i was having a go at you during the convo on the phone the other week when i wasnt and you still think that i am for reasons only known to yourself.

You dont know what went on at dublin city to make that comparison. You are wrong anyway.

Yes Lamps, lets cut this childish crap.

Whats with "The pro managment crowd wont inform us " ? Its just us Lamps, there is no need to be making divisions and having a pop at people just because they have a diffrent opinion. I respect your opinion so why cant you respect mine? Nobody is against you here.
Why wait till the club is gone to ask the questions about the managment of the club ? you , me and there rest of us have had plenty of chances while the club was runnning to ask any questions to the club we wanted but didnt.
Like i said before Lamps, the only people that can give you THEIR answers to some of the points you raise is the former GM which you know very well and the council themselves , Liam, who gave his answers at the meeting the other night along with Conan which has been posted to the best of the posters ability on here earlier and the investors. Apart from them, nobody on here can give you clear cut answers to the points you raise only their opinions .
Ive given my opinions and im not expecting you or anyone else to agree with them and im not going to disect all the pros and cons of what did or did not happen or could have been done.
Again Lamps, im not against you here and you know where i am if you and the Gooner want tea and Jaffa cakes or want your pic taken with my award
One last thing Lamps, You said it best when you said SPORTING FINGAL.
Still BFF?

JohnNightmare

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Then share it mate. Why not?

As said already. Does that make what they said untrue. Attack the post not the poster. And also lets not make any mistake hear. Its not an attack on the club. Its simply questioning the actions of the people who ran it into the ground.

There are a lot of people who cared and where not at the meeting. The meeting is not a yard stick on who cared and who didnt and any views by people should not be discounted on whether they where there or not. This is a forum for fingal discussion and therefore, people who wish to discuss why the club ultimately failed should be allowed to do so. If you dont like it simple dont read it but please dont discount peoples views based on a meeting that the majority of fingal supporters did not attend.

you think sitting down at a laptop or pc typing away is gona get u all the answers you want? yes this is a discussion forum but its just users like me and you asking the questions and giveing the replys, so all ur gonna get is peoples different opinions which is fine thats whats boards.ie is all about but if you want facts and proper answers get up off your back side and go to fingal co co( il show you wher the hq is if you dont know), and ask them why the club is gone. since you couldent make the meeting last wendsday or the meeting last month u werent there , thats the only opition left if you want proper answers and not peoples opinions.

JohnNightmare

santry_goonshow wrote: »

1. Does you going to the meeting for your own information mean that you dont share what you learned? I am waiting to hear anything that addresses the sanity of the close season

2. I recognise all the posters here talking about Sporting Fingal at some stage. I was working in South Africa and Saudi Arabia in 2009-2010 so lost touch a little bit and didnt post because I didnt see games. I was at Sporting Fingal's first matches, a friendly and then the game v Limerick 37 at Morton. Ask other posters if they remember me posting for two years solid in 2008 and 2009

3. A lot of people here want to know why the club folded and why nothing was done to help the club at least survive.

I'm not into the "better to have loved and lost" tosh. I'm into, live by your promises and if you don't then be ready to be brought to account.

same goes to you, this is a discussion fourm if u want facts go down to the fingal co co hq and you bring the people who dident keep there promises to account :rolleyes:

santry_goonshow

JohnNightmare wrote: »

same goes to you, this is a discussion fourm if u want facts go down to the fingal co co hq and you bring the people who dident keep there promises to account :rolleyes:

Stop throwing in red herrings here. I am asking for opinion not looking for only for facts. But at least from what youve said its clear you believe the answers and responsibility is down at Fingal Council Office. It only took 50 posts, that was easy :rolleyes:. I don't agree with you. Now, that doesn't make you wrong and me right. I think the people around the team management wouldnt compromise with a weaker 1st team so they gambled the club away. And I didn't think this was it initially until Paul_w posted a few very good points.

santry_goonshow

Pineapple stu wrote: »

You got a club,
A "Team of investors " was there .
There was a boost to the local clubs within the NDSL
The stadium was put on hold for financial reason beyond the clubs control. You cant expect them to just build a stadium within three years and in the middle of a recession.
I see the Lusk project will go ahead at some stage down the line and again that was beyond the control of the club.

Was these made as " Promises" or just a plan of what was wanted ?

I got a club did I? Where is it? I can't see it. Did I just imagine the whole last 2 weeks?

I am skeptical about there being any boost to the NDSL clubs. Maybe at the start is what I heard, but less and less as things went on.

You dont build a stadium in the middle of a recession. So you refurbish an old one - Morton.

The Hill Billy

Attack the post. Not the poster. Any more personal digs & I'll start dishing out bans.

I'm letting this run as there still seems to be interest & some relevant debate, but we'll see how it goes.

HB

sffc

Its quite striking how similar the story of Sporting Fingal and the story of our overall economy has been . The conversation here has for the last few pages mirrored a stage we went through nationally - debating and debating how we got into this mess (banks ,property bubble etc ) . After a certain point it becomes pointless though and that's what I feel has happened here .
I agree with some posters about what happened at the club - I disagree with others but it's really academic now . Its now time to do something much more difficult - decide what can and should happen now .
From my experience of the last 3 years there is an appetite for LOI soccer in Fingal . Sporting Fingal was achieving crowds comparable with many a viable club . However the attendances did not match the quality of the squad and overall expenditure of the club . They probably matched a club straddling the two leagues such as UCD , Drogheda etc . We have to ask would the crowds have turned up to watch such limited success ? Would a sponsor be interested ? We have to ask is a LOI club of ANY structure viable in Fingal? (particularly with the lack of suitable grounds ) Who would take the plunge and reboot Fingal -would you ??
Its also necessary to decide if posters want to support another club .Even if a rescue plan can be set in train the 2011 season is gone and I for one can't imagine the next 9 months without live soccer . You'll find me heading up to support the Drogs . I've chosen them for a whole heap of reasons - its up to you guys so I won't bore you with why .
Yes, my heart is still heavy and it'll be a long time before I ever buy a Drogs jersey if ever . It's just I know I need to move on from this . I suggest you do the same lads. Never forget the roar as we took to the field in the Europa home leg though..... never .

JohnNightmare

santry_goonshow wrote: »

Stop throwing in red herrings here. I am asking for opinion not looking for only for facts. But at least from what youve said its clear you believe the answers and responsibility is down at Fingal Council Office. It only took 50 posts, that was easy :rolleyes:. I don't agree with you. Now, that doesn't make you wrong and me right. I think the people around the team management wouldnt compromise with a weaker 1st team so they gambled the club away. And I didn't think this was it initially until Paul_w posted a few very good points.

could you give me names please? who do you blame, dont just say " the people around the team managment".

Luttrell1975

JohnNightmare wrote: »

could you give me names please? who do you blame, dont just say " the people around the team managment".

There were names up here, 3 days ago and I know you saw them. The mod wanted them removed and took em down. You posted in replies some of those and its clear you already know. The two people who called all the shots. Geddit?:)

In what I've seen the criticisms are aimed at a couple of people for between them turning the club into a train crash. I think its more than academic what happened to sffc. The whole League of Ireland needs overspending and underfinancing to stop. Yes its difficult to find backers, so if you cant

---

then run your budget more carefully. SF were known to be paying out the second biggest wages. Its clear that what would have left a club and a football plan in place is less spending on big names and more players brought up through the ranks.

Do you know what I think would have saved the club? If it had entered the A Championship that first year instead of the first division. The whole mad thing of buying and scouting players out of other teams wouldnt have started and the club would have used more local lads and more local clubs.

Pineapple stu

santry_goonshow wrote: »

I got a club did I? Where is it? I can't see it. Did I just imagine the whole last 2 weeks?

I am skeptical about there being any boost to the NDSL clubs. Maybe at the start is what I heard, but less and less as things went on.

You dont build a stadium in the middle of a recession. So you refurbish an old one - Morton.

You got a club while it lasted,

If you was clued up then you would know that Morton wasnt ours to refurbish .

Pineapple stu

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

There were names up here, 3 days ago and I know you saw them. The mod wanted them removed and took em down. You posted in replies some of those and its clear you already know. The two people who called all the shots. Geddit?:)

In what I've seen the criticisms are aimed at a couple of people for between them turning the club into a train crash. I think its more than academic what happened to sffc. The whole League of Ireland needs overspending and underfinancing to stop. Yes its difficult to find backers, so if you cant

---

then run your budget more carefully. SF were known to be paying out the second biggest wages. Its clear that what would have left a club and a football plan in place is less spending on big names and more players brought up through the ranks.

Do you know what I think would have saved the club? If it had entered the A Championship that first year instead of the first division. The whole mad thing of buying and scouting players out of other teams wouldnt have started and the club would have used more local lads and more local clubs.

Where do you think we were entered in the first place? Yes, the A championship.

JohnNightmare

i wonder y we got in the 1st division? oh wait, yeah, killkenny city folded thats it:rolleyes:

Luttrell1975

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Where do you think we were entered in the first place? Yes, the A championship.

Yes, and the point was very clear. Let me repeat it. If we stayed there things would have grown gradually without making large purchases.

Luttrell1975

JohnNightmare wrote: »

i wonder y we got in the 1st division? oh wait, yeah, killkenny city folded thats it:rolleyes:

Double :rolleyes:, no wait triple :rolleyes:

And the point stands. If SF stayed in this tier it could have built up slowly. As usual the league were desperate for anyone who was stable, and we were stable. Did I miss something? Was there a counter argument to my point that wasnt fact?

JohnNightmare

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Double :rolleyes:, no wait triple :rolleyes:

And the point stands. If SF stayed in this tier it could have built up slowly. As usual the league were desperate for anyone who was stable, and we were stable. Did I miss something? Was there a counter argument to my point that wasnt fact?

gannan was still the backer so who's to say we wudent of had the same players, walked the a champion ship, and still got to the 1st division, the same thing would have happend in 3 years, just no premier division for us,

Pineapple stu

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Yes, and the point was very clear. Let me repeat it. If we stayed there things would have grown gradually without making large purchases.

Maybe so but would you have refused the place in the first division and with it the chance to build the support? Did you go to any of our A championship games? how many fans do you think did with a good team playing? What if we had won promotion from the A championship at the first attempt, wouldnt it be the same as being put in the first division anyway? You may or not have seen the crowds we were getting without the away support, how much support do you think we could have got if we had a weak side playing and struggling at the bottom of the first division with Salthill devon .
Whats with the "We " bit? you said earlier you were dragged to a game or but its " We" now . strange.

JohnNightmare

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Maybe so but would you have refused the place in the first division and with it the chance to build the support? Did you go to any of our A championship games? how many fans do you think did with a good team playing? What if we had won promotion from the A championship at the first attempt, wouldnt it be the same as being put in the first division anyway? You may or not have seen the crowds we were getting without the away support, how much support do you think we could have got if we had a weak side playing and struggling at the bottom of the first division with Salthill devon .
Whats with the "We " bit? you said earlier you were dragged to a game or but its " We" now . strange.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

santry_goonshow

sffc wrote: »

Its quite striking how similar the story of Sporting Fingal and the story of our overall economy has been . The conversation here has for the last few pages mirrored a stage we went through nationally - debating and debating how we got into this mess (banks ,property bubble etc ) . After a certain point it becomes pointless though and that's what I feel has happened here .
I agree with some posters about what happened at the club - I disagree with others but it's really academic now . Its now time to do something much more difficult - decide what can and should happen now .
From my experience of the last 3 years there is an appetite for LOI soccer in Fingal . Sporting Fingal was achieving crowds comparable with many a viable club . However the attendances did not match the quality of the squad and overall expenditure of the club . They probably matched a club straddling the two leagues such as UCD , Drogheda etc . We have to ask would the crowds have turned up to watch such limited success ? Would a sponsor be interested ? We have to ask is a LOI club of ANY structure viable in Fingal? (particularly with the lack of suitable grounds ) Who would take the plunge and reboot Fingal -would you ??
Its also necessary to decide if posters want to support another club .Even if a rescue plan can be set in train the 2011 season is gone and I for one can't imagine the next 9 months without live soccer . You'll find me heading up to support the Drogs . I've chosen them for a whole heap of reasons - its up to you guys so I won't bore you with why .
Yes, my heart is still heavy and it'll be a long time before I ever buy a Drogs jersey if ever . It's just I know I need to move on from this . I suggest you do the same lads. Never forget the roar as we took to the field in the Europa home leg though..... never .

BRILLIANT ANALOGY!

You left out one thing. Once things went bang you still have a phase of denial where people (A) dont want to know or accuse you of killing their buzz, (B) think the sun shone out their leaders (C) are clueless about what happened to this very day.

Just like Sporting Fingal.