The Failed Experiment: Waterford Bypass Toll

Sponge Bob

This will have to be the first bypass where they drop the toll. I reckon it is only taking 4000 cars a day off the Rice Bridge in Waterford ( around 10% of traffic pre bypass) and that 37,000 cars are still taking the Rice Bridge daily.

Anybody reckon the bypass is taking 14000 cars a day , not out of Waterford itself it ain't??

And if any green gobsh1te wants to try tolling the Galway Bypass I will strangle him !

jonnyfingers

I don't mean to be belligerent but why is this the Galway forum?

Either way I think the toll is ridiculous on that bridge. I live in Waterford and have family right on the other side of the bridge but I'm not paying €1.90 a pop to take the road, I'll stick with Rice Bridge thank you very much.

What's more HGVs are avoiding playing the toll and still going through the city. To counteract this the city council have put weight restrictions on residential roads that the HGVs are using instead of the toll bridge. Why not make the bride toll free to HGVs like the port tunnel and keep the traffic from residential areas?

Sponge Bob

This will have to be the first bypass where they drop the toll. I reckon it is only taking 4000 cars a day off the Rice Bridge in Waterford ( around 10% of traffic pre bypass) and that 37,000 cars are still taking the Rice Bridge daily.

Anybody reckon the bypass is taking 14000 vehicles a day , not out of Waterford itself it ain't !!!!

L1011

The BP is quiet any time I'm on it but not 4000 a day quiet - I think its taken some traffic from west Waterford that might have otherwise gone via the M8 corridor if faced with going through Waterford City.

Doubt its taking in enough revenue and its definitely not serving its intended purpose either.

Dum_Dum

Indeed it is abysmal. However, as long as the operator is at least making a small profit out of those 4000, tolls will not change. Anyway, can you imagine the stink if Waterford was seen to be advantaged in any way through a lack of tolling?

sgthighway

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I don't mean to be belligerent but why is this the Galway forum?

+1

fish fingers

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I don't mean to be belligerent but why is this the Galway forum?

Either way I think the toll is ridiculous on that bridge. I live in Waterford and have family right on the other side of the bridge but I'm not paying €1.90 a pop to take the road, I'll stick with Rice Bridge thank you very much.

What's more HGVs are avoiding playing the toll and still going through the city. To counteract this the city council have put weight restrictions on residential roads that the HGVs are using instead of the toll bridge. Why not make the bride toll free to HGVs like the port tunnel and keep the traffic from residential areas?

Because this is Ireland and that would make sense

Sponge Bob

MYOB wrote: »

Doubt its taking in enough revenue and its definitely not serving its intended purpose either.

The operators would not be bringing in enough revenue to service their debt at current traffic volumes. I reckon the breakeven on debt servicing is certainly no less than 10,000 units a day , 2,000 trucks and 8,000 others....and bringing in €10m a year. That is 5% of the project debt which is €200m or so. ( It cost €500m but we taxpayers paid €300m of that leaving €200m of debt to be funded by tolls) .

A traffic number of 10,000 would not repay anything or provide any maintenance funds, traffic needs to rise over time to do so.

Does anybody believe this 14,000 figure. It is reiterated here.

http://www.roadtraffic-technology.com/projects/waterfordbypass/

The new River Suir bridge and Waterford city bypass along with the Waterford-Dublin motorway will improve the travelling conditions in the entire region by making the journey shorter and safer. About 14,000 vehicles use the Waterford bypass each day reducing the traffic volumes currently using the Rice bridge by about 30%. Usage of the Waterford bypass has helped in taking out about 10,000 to 12,000 vehicles a day from the city quays.

As the drop in the city centre was 10% or 4,000 per day I cannot in all honesty believe that 14000 figure. Even 10,000 seems optimistic.

Sponge Bob

There is a move afoot to force a toll on the Galway Bypass.

The Waterford Bypass is the best example of why this will not work and the Limerick Bypass Tunnel will open later this month and will also be tolled.

Chris_5339762

Well what did they expect? Waterford does not lie on an intercity route. Not much traffic goes from Rosslare to Cork and the hauliers that make up the bulk of that traffic probably are told not to use the toll ANYWAY.

Commuters wont use it, as you're commuting into or out of Waterford, not past it.

It was necessary, but really should have been free. Tolling the future Dungarvan bypass would have been more sensible.

Madame Razz

I'd happily pay any toll to avoid Limerick city

Trick of the Tail

Tolling any bypass is foolish, since it dissuades people from using it.

Bypasses should always be free; However motorways, if built with private funds, should be tolled - for a finite time.

Its yet another example of the 'not quite got it right' syndrome prevalent in Irish infrastructure design and building.

A.

BluntGuy

As a nation we seem fundamentally adverse to excellence, and criticise those who call for it.

Until that mindset changes, everything will continue to be "not quite right".

SeanW

+1 to both above posts.

jack presley

It's a win/win for toll operators though. It's normally in a PPP contact that if the facility isn't used enough and they don't get a certain amount of revenue, they get paid the shortfall from taxpayer coffers, so we're paying anyway!

Sponge Bob

jack presley wrote: »

It's normally in a PPP contact that if the facility isn't used enough and they don't get a certain amount of revenue, they get paid the shortfall from taxpayer coffers, so we're paying anyway!

That 'topup' clause applies to the M3 motorway contract but the government assures us that it does not apply to the Waterford Bridge ( or any other toll section anywhere) and that any shortfall in the toll is a purely commercial matter.

However I have heard speculation that failure to complete the Tuam - Gort section could lead to any 'shortfalls' in toll income on the Limerick tunnel being annually made up in cash by the exchequer. The linkage is not with hard traffic numbers but with the general capacity of the road network to deliver traffic to the toll as I understand it.

mike65

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Commuters wont use it, as you're commuting into or out of Waterford, not past it.

I'll argue with this bit, the ORR which exits the by-pass is a good way for south Kilkenny traffic to reach the industrial estate and various ORR retail/business parks plus the WHR

Trick of the Tail

Indeed it is, + for News Ross/Wexford commuters.

I line in S. Kilkenny and gladly pay 3.80 per day to get to/from work in 15 mins rather than 30-35; However my company pays my tolls.

For most commuters, when that adds up, they're reluctant to pay it. And several commercial users I've spoken to, who might have to make several cross-river trips per day, won't use it for the same reason - it becomes very expensive.

It should definitely NOT be tolled. However if is is, each vehicle should only pay once per day.

I'm willing to bet that if they did that the usage would increase considerably.

A.

Tech3

It would have been a better idea to toll the M9 rather than have it on the Waterford bypass. But it is important to have this piece of infrastructure to bypass Waterford as the N25 is a stragetic route to Rosslare.

The N25 would be up there with the rest of the national primary routes which need to be upgraded in the next 10 years. The likes of Dungarvan and New Ross need to be bypassed. Also it has two cities linked together Cork to Waterford.

galwayrush

The toll people probably don't care as they probably have a deal with our silly Government to prop up any losses they suffer on the yearly running of the 'stealth tax' toll, they can't lose.

L1011

galwayrush wrote: »

The toll people probably don't care as they probably have a deal with our silly Government to prop up any losses they suffer on the yearly running of the 'stealth tax' toll, they can't lose.

They don't. Only the M3 has any traffic figure guarantees.

The concessionaire in this case is the most experienced domestic toll road operator, what with NTR involved heavily. I suspect they know what they're doing, and I could see some price incentives being done to increase traffic.

JohnC.

MYOB wrote: »

They don't. Only the M3 has any traffic figure guarantees.

The concessionaire in this case is the most experienced domestic toll road operator, what with NTR involved heavily. I suspect they know what they're doing, and I could see some price incentives being done to increase traffic.

They've already tried some incentives with free trips.

galwayrush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is a move afoot to force a toll on the Galway Bypass.

The Waterford Bypass is the best example of why this will not work and the Limerick Bypass Tunnel will open later this month and will also be tolled.

I thought it was confirmed there would be no toll on the Galway by pass, that was before the serial objectors forced their idiotic objections to it to the European Court.

Sponge Bob

MYOB wrote: »

. I suspect they know what they're doing, and I could see some price incentives being done to increase traffic.

I suspect they will simply sue Waterford City Council for not 'disincentivising' city centre transits instead. That would be cheap.

The concession may also fund a few loud lobby groups in the City to protest against traffic.....watch out for a well funded and suspiciously slick lobby group appearing out of nowhere nd giving out about trucks and commuter traffic.....somewhere in the City

biko

Galway -> Infrastructure.

wellbutty

biko wrote: »

Galway -> Infrastructure.

Already in Infrastructure!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055932270

loyatemu

alinton wrote: »

It should definitely NOT be tolled. However if is is, each vehicle should only pay once per day.

I'm willing to bet that if they did that the usage would increase considerably

a good idea. do any of the toll roads offer bulk discounts to hauliers to encourage them to use the roads? For most hauliers there must be a sweet spot where paying a certain amount of money to save a certain amount of time is worth it.

L1011

loyatemu wrote: »

a good idea. do any of the toll roads offer bulk discounts to hauliers to encourage them to use the roads? For most hauliers there must be a sweet spot where paying a certain amount of money to save a certain amount of time is worth it.

10% for buying trips in bulk in advance is all they (all) offer to anyone.

wellbutty

Agree those figures of 14000 are a joke.....any time, any day I've been on this road it's REALLY quiet...I'd say half that would be generous. Some factors against the bridge being used:

1) To get onto the bypass south of the river, we have a 10km dualcarriageway with a motorway-style concrete barrier.....and a 60kmh speed limit for its entirety...and a crime preventer hiding in the bushes with a radar gun. There goes any offpeak time saving. Having the bridge free won't change this

2) The new bridge is only faster around 9am and 5pm. Waterford is too small for people to stray from the traditional routes at any other times. Having the bridge free won't change this

3) The number of cars crossing the old bridge (is 37000 the figure?), a huge number of these are commuters from north of the river, people doing trips to the train station, people "going into town" from Ferrybank etc. If you look at a map of the city, all those going to the city center itself will always use the old bridge. Having the bridge free won't change this

4) Tourists on their way between Rosslare and Cork or visa versa, curiosity alone brings people into the city (it's in their guide books). Having the bridge free won't change this

PPP schemes are great but some schemes look far better on paper and it's not a surprise to most in this region that the new bridge is way underused. The Limerick tunnel, M50 west link, even a Jack Lynch tunnel or an M9 toll to me would all be winners but this bridge is a lossmaker and the only way it will ever turn a profit is if the old bridge is pedestrianised or knocked!