[Article] TK Maxx Ordered to Stop Selling from Retail Park

savic04

Really don't know why anyone would shop in town anymore, place is a disaster. Parking is a nightmare, its like a ghost town with so many closed down shops. Its nothing to do with TK maxx, why is it ok for Next to sell clothes in Tesco Ardkeen but not Tk Maxx?

Speak Now

savic04 wrote: »

Really don't know why anyone would shop in town anymore, place is a disaster. Parking is a nightmare, its like a ghost town with so many closed down shops. Its nothing to do with TK maxx, why is it ok for Next to sell clothes in Tesco Ardkeen but not Tk Maxx?

I guess because Ardkeen is not classed as a retail Park, it's along the lines of the Waterford shopping center in Lisduggan. Planning laws eh!

Psychedelic

savic04 wrote: »

Really don't know why anyone would shop in town anymore, place is a disaster. Parking is a nightmare, its like a ghost town with so many closed down shops. Its nothing to do with TK maxx, why is it ok for Next to sell clothes in Tesco Ardkeen but not Tk Maxx?

How is parking a nightmare? There's always plenty of spaces in each of the car parks, which you can see on the new signage which shows how many spaces available in each car park.

Too many closed down shops? What shops have closed, there's not that many, none that were that good anyway. As far as I can see all the good shops are still there, Alfie Hales, Shaws, John Palmer's, Tommy Hilfiger, Footlocker, Golden Discs, BPM, all the shops on George's Street and in George's Court, Debenhams, Dunnes, Heroes, Penney's, Sherwoods, Argos etc. I think we lost Adams and some ladies fashion shop in City Square; one of those units was replaced by Champion Sports. Pamela Scott is closing but will be re-opening in another store soon, and Lifestyle Sports are moving into where Pamela Scott were. TK Maxx will soon hopefully be in Railway Square which should help attract a few other shops to open there.

Take a walk through the city centre from Clock Tower to Masons and count how many empty shops you see, I'd be surprised if you counted more than a handful.

JohnC.

Plus you don't need to drive to get between shops and have a greater range of shops in the city centre.

Well, I say you don't need to drive, but there are lazy people who do anyway.

sparkling sea

Kahless wrote: »

If TKMaxx are there illegally, then, through no fault of the workers themselves, aren't they basically earning a living through illegal means? I don't think the constitution covers them for that.

Besides all that, using the constitution to keep your job would be disastrous and your interpretation isn't what it is meant for. It would mean nobody could ever lose their job. That's simply unworkable. Steal from your employer? Don't worry, they can't fire you. Company need cutbacks to survive in a difficult economy? Don't worry, they can't let you go. Company has to shut down because it simply can't survive, possibly due to the previous point? Then what?

Let's face it, sometimes people lose jobs even if they personally have done nothing wrong. It's not nice, but it's life.

Your scenarios are complete different and obviously have no legal basis because of the factors you correctly put forward, however this situation is different with regard to TK Maxx as the judicial process makes the decision regarding not only the substantive issue of planning but because of that the ancillary issue of unemployment.
Its a balancing of rights. The right to earn a living versus the right to close down a booming business because of incorrect implementation of planning laws. It is really impossible to say what right would win out as a case with these set of circumstances has not been taken yet but given the current climate it might be worth a punt

sunnysoutheast

sparkling sea wrote: »

Your scenarios are complete different and obviously have no legal basis because of the factors you correctly put forward, however this situation is different with regard to TK Maxx as the judicial process makes the decision regarding not only the substantive issue of planning but because of that the ancillary issue of unemployment.
Its a balancing of rights. The right to earn a living versus the right to close down a booming business because of incorrect implementation of planning laws. It is really impossible to say what right would win out as a case with these set of circumstances has not been taken yet but given the current climate it might be worth a punt

Your argument doesn't make any sense - in what court and on what basis would you take a "punt"? TK Maxx are closing their branch because they are not in compliance with the planning permission for the premises they occupy and this interpretation has been tested on appeal, so why is it an "incorrect implementation"? I don't see any difference between workers in this situation and those whose employers have shut down for other reasons. In any case, who's to say that another business won't move in to the vacated unit?

As others have said, I too hope TK Maxx open up in Railway Square and give another shot in the arm to the City Centre and I hope the staff are transferred over should they want to. Remember that the owners and workers in businesses who comply with planning laws have rights too.

SSE

wmpdd3

savic04 wrote: »

Really don't know why anyone would shop in town anymore, place is a disaster. Parking is a nightmare, its like a ghost town with so many closed down shops. Its nothing to do with TK maxx, why is it ok for Next to sell clothes in Tesco Ardkeen but not Tk Maxx?

As far as I know Next got the planning permission form Waterford County council, when that area was in the sticks! But now it comes under Waterford City council, so Tesco can't get planning permission to extend the current clothing (tiny) section.

sparkling sea

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Your argument doesn't make any sense - in what court and on what basis would you take a "punt"? TK Maxx are closing their branch because they are not in compliance with the planning permission for the premises they occupy and this interpretation has been tested on appeal, so why is it an "incorrect implementation"? I don't see any difference between workers in this situation and those whose employers have shut down for other reasons. In any case, who's to say that another business won't move in to the vacated unit?

As others have said, I too hope TK Maxx open up in Railway Square and give another shot in the arm to the City Centre and I hope the staff are transferred over should they want to. Remember that the owners and workers in businesses who comply with planning laws have rights too.

SSE

The interpretation does not relate to my point, the Constit right to earn a livehood is a complete different point, we seem to have our wires crossed. Only the workers in either T K Maxx or the other stores could take this case, the actual compaines would not have standing to do so.

I hope the T K Maxx workers keep there jobs but from what I have heard today there will be at least an 18 month gap between the closing of the old store and opening of a new one.
I would also hope that all the workers of the other stores on the complex keep there jobs or even that the stores just stay open.
The owners are applying for change of use with regard to the unit but again this could take months.
I was in town today and it still amazes me just how empty it is, people don't seem to like the way the town centre has changed. It would be lovely if Waterford could become the vibrant city it was not so long ago.

sunnysoutheast

sparkling sea wrote: »

The interpretation does not relate to my point, the Constit right to earn a livehood is a complete different point, we seem to have our wires crossed. Only the workers in either T K Maxx or the other stores could take this case, the actual compaines would not have standing to do so.

I hope the T K Maxx workers keep there jobs but from what I have heard today there will be at least an 18 month gap between the closing of the old store and opening of a new one.
I would also hope that all the workers of the other stores on the complex keep there jobs or even that the stores just stay open.
The owners are applying for change of use with regard to the unit but again this could take months.
I was in town today and it still amazes me just how empty it is, people don't seem to like the way the town centre has changed. It would be lovely if Waterford could become the vibrant city it was not so long ago.

.....yes but take what case in what court and on what grounds? Can you point to any sort of case law or precedent?

It didn't seem to take Penney's very long to move into Railway Square and then back again. I mean how long can it take, it's not as if these types of shops require much internal remodelling is it?

The City Council's entire retail strategy is intended to retain and promote the vibrancy of the City Centre, either way this won't be helped by doughnut development.

SSE

JohnC.

A right to employment is not the same as a guarantee of employment.

sparkling sea

Kahless wrote: »

A right to employment is not the same as a guarantee of employment.

Totally agree but that doesn't mean they don't have a case.

sparkling sea

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

.....yes but take what case in what court and on what grounds? Can you point to any sort of case law or precedent?

It didn't seem to take Penney's very long to move into Railway Square and then back again. I mean how long can it take, it's not as if these types of shops require much internal remodelling is it?

The City Council's entire retail strategy is intended to retain and promote the vibrancy of the City Centre, either way this won't be helped by doughnut development.

SSE

It would have to be the High Court as jurisdiction deals with the validity of any law having regard to the Constitution and grounds would be the decison of the planners takes away the ability to earn a livelyhood - has to be workers because of locus standi. I would have to get out the books on case law or precedent, and can't be bothered at the minute but custom and practice would have some bearing, as would the Next shop.

The 18 month delay is more to do with T K Maxx themselves but this is only rumour but it did come from someone working in the shop, I am "reliably" told.

As for the City Council, retail strategy thats a joke.
The City planners specifically, don't appear to know their head from their hand, they have not retained but ruined the city and don't seem to understand the wants or needs of the people of Waterford, thats why the City is like a ghost town after in the evenings.
I would hate to think the very people who ruined Waterford without heeding any of the many warnings they were given now have the audacity to think they can rejuvenate Waterford but I bet they do. God help us; we are in trouble.

sunnysoutheast

sparkling sea wrote: »

It would have to be the High Court as jurisdiction deals with the validity of any law having regard to the Constitution and grounds would be the decison of the planners takes away the ability to earn a livelyhood - has to be workers because of locus standi. I would have to get out the books on case law or precedent, and can't be bothered at the minute but custom and practice would have some bearing, as would the Next shop.

The 18 month delay is more to do with T K Maxx themselves but this is only rumour but it did come from someone working in the shop, I am "reliably" told.

As for the City Council, retail strategy thats a joke.
The City planners specifically, don't appear to know their head from their hand, they have not retained but ruined the city and don't seem to understand the wants or needs of the people of Waterford, thats why the City is like a ghost town after in the evenings.
I would hate to think the very people who ruined Waterford without heeding any of the many warnings they were given now have the audacity to think they can rejuvenate Waterford but I bet they do. God help us; we are in trouble.

So I think you are suggesting that A.N. Person takes the State to the High Court for enforcing planning law resulting in A.N. Person losing their job due to the fact that A.N. Person's employer was in clear breach, confirmed on appeal? Yeah, good luck with that. Are you going to act pro bono?

I also find it laughable that you're slating the City Council a few days after we've had the most successful spraoi festival I can remember, plus the very successful launch of the Crystal Centre and the ongoing investment in the Viking quarter. The City hasn't felt as lively in a while, perhaps TK Maxx would be better off in Railway Square anyway.....

SSE

south

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

.....yes but take what case in what court and on what grounds? Can you point to any sort of case law or precedent?

It didn't seem to take Penney's very long to move into Railway Square and then back again. I mean how long can it take, it's not as if these types of shops require much internal remodelling is it?

The City Council's entire retail strategy is intended to retain and promote the vibrancy of the City Centre, either way this won't be helped by doughnut development.

SSE

this looks to be the work they want planning for.... the provision of an internal mezzanine. The development will consist of a mezzanine floor of approx. 12927 sq. ft, complete with escalators, 1 No. lift and 3 No. Stairs

Received Date: 15/03/2010 Decision Due Date: 09/05/2010


http://www.waterfordcity.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=1043&LASiteID=0

sunnysoutheast

south wrote: »

this looks to be the work they want planning for.... the provision of an internal mezzanine. The development will consist of a mezzanine floor of approx. 12927 sq. ft, complete with escalators, 1 No. lift and 3 No. Stairs

Received Date: 15/03/2010 Decision Due Date: 09/05/2010


http://www.waterfordcity.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=1043&LASiteID=0

Permission was granted I think? Unfortunately I don't think people will go as there is no parking on the mezzanine level.....:D

SSE

sparkling sea

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

So I think you are suggesting that A.N. Person takes the State to the High Court for enforcing planning law resulting in A.N. Person losing their job due to the fact that A.N. Person's employer was in clear breach, confirmed on appeal? Yeah, good luck with that. Are you going to act pro bono?

I also find it laughable that you're slating the City Council a few days after we've had the most successful spraoi festival I can remember, plus the very successful launch of the Crystal Centre and the ongoing investment in the Viking quarter. The City hasn't felt as lively in a while, perhaps TK Maxx would be better off in Railway Square anyway.....

SSE

You must be very young if you call the Waterford of today vibrant - you dont know what you've missed and you never will if you carry on as your going.

I think youll find that the Spraoi organisors are ambiguous about how successful this years Spraoi was (Listen to WLR interview) - I would say it was one of the least sucessful I can remember - we need a stage in the Applemarket at least.
On saying that, it is free so I would thank all those involved.

The sucess of the City speaks for itself (Ghosttown) - if you have tunnel vision be so be it.
Sorry dont know what A.N stands for, you have to be definitive to have locus standi. Flippantancy about peoples jobs and the impact it will have on their lives is not a track I would like to take. Mine is just a suggestion and where a company has little to lose all suggestions are worth investigation.

Everything is open to interpretation so dont be so quick to write things off

savic04

Psychedelic wrote: »

How is parking a nightmare? There's always plenty of spaces in each of the car parks, which you can see on the new signage which shows how many spaces available in each car park.

Too many closed down shops? What shops have closed, there's not that many, none that were that good anyway. As far as I can see all the good shops are still there, Alfie Hales, Shaws, John Palmer's, Tommy Hilfiger, Footlocker, Golden Discs, BPM, all the shops on George's Street and in George's Court, Debenhams, Dunnes, Heroes, Penney's, Sherwoods, Argos etc. I think we lost Adams and some ladies fashion shop in City Square; one of those units was replaced by Champion Sports. Pamela Scott is closing but will be re-opening in another store soon, and Lifestyle Sports are moving into where Pamela Scott were. TK Maxx will soon hopefully be in Railway Square which should help attract a few other shops to open there.

Take a walk through the city centre from Clock Tower to Masons and count how many empty shops you see, I'd be surprised if you counted more than a handful.

Patrick Street, plenty of closed shops not to mention the big cinema,Michael St the same... Old Stand never replaced with anything.. I am in town every day and have been for the last 15 years, the shops you mentioned there, every small town in Ireland has either the same or shops of equal quality. I hear so many people, women in particular going to KK or even Clonmel to shop as ''its better then here'' we are supposed to be a city, I fear it wont be long before people start travelling back to Dublin and Cork to shop like they did years ago. As for the car parks, what good is signs telling you about spaces when all you need to do is drop off of something at a shop or a quick 5 min trip. Waterford city centre is very small, hopefully the work on teh quay will bring people back down that way to shop. Its a shame we didnt get that newgate SC, the place badly needs it... As you say TK maxx in railway square would be good, but if it don't happen , which is the point of this thread,.... what else would go in there?

Its bad planning, I know loads of businesses in town who are not happy with how the place has been designed, all that one way traffic etc, ped' streets etc .. The feel of the place dont seem to be right at all, it seemed a good project and you would think its right, but without a flow of traffic in town, business has probably suffered in most cases... altho the bloody Recession hasnt helped too I guess.. I would gladly shop out of town in retail parks 90% of the time if I had to, and I presume there are loads more like me sad to say it to be honest.. I never forget an English tourist ask me one day just by the corner of Patrick St ''Where is the city centre''' your in it I replied to her amazement!

Minstrel27

Psychedelic wrote: »

How is parking a nightmare? There's always plenty of spaces in each of the car parks, which you can see on the new signage which shows how many spaces available in each car park.

Too many closed down shops? What shops have closed, there's not that many, none that were that good anyway. As far as I can see all the good shops are still there, Alfie Hales, Shaws, John Palmer's, Tommy Hilfiger, Footlocker, Golden Discs, BPM, all the shops on George's Street and in George's Court, Debenhams, Dunnes, Heroes, Penney's, Sherwoods, Argos etc. I think we lost Adams and some ladies fashion shop in City Square; one of those units was replaced by Champion Sports. Pamela Scott is closing but will be re-opening in another store soon, and Lifestyle Sports are moving into where Pamela Scott were. TK Maxx will soon hopefully be in Railway Square which should help attract a few other shops to open there.

Take a walk through the city centre from Clock Tower to Masons and count how many empty shops you see, I'd be surprised if you counted more than a handful.

There must not be any problems with retail in the town center. You have completely contradicted this guy.

Bards wrote: »

...and what about every other shop in the City Centre???? DO these workers not have the same rights - they are being put in jeopardy everytime an out-of-town retail development sets up

200motels

Yes Boss wrote: »

Sensible planning would never have allowed them to be situated in Butlerstown!! We need to strengthen the City Centre to ensure its survival!!

F*** the city center I hope it blows up, we're only a half assed city anyway there's more in Clonmel and Dungarvin is better as well.

200motels

Yes Boss wrote: »

So what is wrong with the City Centre? Why would more people go to Penny's in Railway Sq? What is the fundamental problem with the City??

Parking Charges.

savic04

200motels wrote: »

Parking Charges.

Poor planning
McCann being given too much say

Chris P. Bacon

200motels wrote: »

F*** the city center I hope it blows up, we're only a half assed city anyway there's more in Clonmel and Dungarvin is better as well.

Well go live in Clonmel or Dungarvan,your living in the best city in Ireland and if you cant appreciate that then thats your problem...

coolperson05

savic04 wrote: »

Poor planning
McCann being given too much say

Exactly no planning! We need to stop putting retail parks and shopping centres outside of the city to be empty (Ferrybank, Cork Rd, Six cross roads retail pk, etc) and put some shops in town! All those English/European branches of stores will only open in a clean shell unit! They don't want to be transforming existing shops or building work. It's happened all over the country, places like Clonmel, Newbridge, Kilkenny etc had nothing till a purpose built shopping centre came along. City Square isn't good enough!

Minstrel27

Richie Cranium wrote: »

your living in the best city in Ireland

ORLY? What has Waterford got that pushes it ahead of other cities in Ireland?

Chris P. Bacon

Minstrel27 wrote: »

ORLY? What has Waterford got that pushes it ahead of other cities in Ireland?

Blaas..

Minstrel27

So you think the best city tag is earned because of some blaas. Moving on.

Chris P. Bacon

Yes,probably best to keep moving on.

Hoffmans

whats the big deal with tk muxx:rolleyes: anyways,
they sell nuthin but old musty seconds and returns from the uk catalogue market go to oxfam in town least they seemingly wash the old threads before they sell them ......

200motels

Richie Cranium wrote: »

Well go live in Clonmel or Dungarvan,your living in the best city in Ireland and if you cant appreciate that then thats your problem...

Your living in another world.

Chris P. Bacon

200motels wrote: »

Your living in another world.

No just very proud to be from Waterford.