The British: Like, hate or feel completely indifferent??

Winty

drakshug wrote: »

don't know any other scots who have a bad word to say about the Irish.

Thanks drakshug

If you want to know about Scotland either go and see or PM drakshug.
Do not read Wikipedia and think you know it all .

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

Yea but your not from ulster

Er, yes I am.

owenc wrote: »

so you will see it differnt to me. Since when have they done that. PLus they couldn't your living in dublin.

I live in Dublin (about half the time), my family don't.
My mate's from Bangor, he lives in Dublin too. Also from consistent planter stock. Presumably he doesn't exist in your narrow world view either?

Mike 1972

walshb wrote: »

Now, maybe you should apply it to those who do not consider the Northern part of this country (Ireland) as part of the U.K

Donegal hasnt been part of the UK since 1922. I havent seen anyone here suggest otherwise.

walshb

owenc wrote: »

, thats who runs it.

Oh, if you put it like that, that must make it so. Thanks for clearing that up.:rolleyes:

owenc

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Donegal hasnt been part of the UK since 1922. I havent seen anyone here suggest otherwise.

Yes but that can include antrim and derry.

walshb

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Donegal hasnt been part of the UK since 1922. I havent seen anyone here suggest otherwise.

I am well aware of the 6 and the 9 counties. I should have been specific, apologies.

owenc

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Er, yes I am.




I live in Dublin (about half the time), my family don't.
My mate's from Bangor, he lives in Dublin too. Also from consistent planter stock. Presumably he doesn't exist in your narrow world view either?

whatever....

owenc

walshb wrote: »

I am well aware of the 6 and the 9 counties. I should have been specific, apologies.

Well you should've because when you say "the north" i think of northern ireland as thats what people down south seem to call northern ireland or maybe they don't even reconise that it exsists as thats what i'm picking up from you.

Mike 1972

owenc wrote: »

Yes but that can include antrim and derry.

Different country

gurramok

Winty wrote: »

You are correct that Scotland has a number of Orange Order Lodges but my point is that they do not roam the countryside looking to attack Irish people.

Scotland like anywhere is full of trouble if you look for it.

Winty wrote: »

Thanks drakshug

If you want to know about Scotland either go and see or PM drakshug.
Do not read Wikipedia and think you know it all .

Funny man, they don't roam the place looking for the likes of me. What I said is beware they exist. They are small in number bar the Glasgow parade(10,000 or so). Drunken hanger on's at parades tend to be the worst bigots and best to be avoided.

Cavehill Red

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Different country

Same country, different rule.

walshb

owenc wrote: »

Well you should've because when you say "the north" i think of northern ireland as thats what people down south seem to call northern ireland or maybe they don't even reconise that it exsists as thats what i'm picking up from you.

owen, do some research. Any Irish person who considers themselves Irish, or Nationalist or Republican should NEVER refer to the 6 counties as Northern Ireland. They don't do it. Now, you may not agree with this, but SURELY you can understand their point of view, or are you that ignorant to other peoples views about their country.

The same way that nobody who is Irish would call Derry by that other name that Unionists and Loyalists refer to.

Mike 1972

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Same country.

Nope different country

You might disapprove of the fact that is your prerogative but burying your head in the sand and pretending it is not the case just marks you out as delusional

walshb wrote: »

Any Irish person who considers themselves Irish, or Nationalist or Republican .

Doesnt need YOUR permission to call a country by its proper name.

Winty

walshb wrote: »

The same way that nobody who is Irish would call Derry by that other name that Unionists and Loyalists refer to.

You mean Londondoire

Thanks to Mike 1972

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

whatever....

Funny how quiet unionists can get when they're confronted with the reality of those from what they see as 'their camp' getting in touch with their Irish heritage and crossing the border from time to time.
It strikes me that perhaps the people most clinging to demographic hope are those of a unionist persuasion.
I regularly hear proposals for repartition (inevitably ceding most of West of the Bann) from people who are coming to realise that the number is up for their dead-end ideology and who are seeking its continuation in a diminished form.
Far better, I believe, to throw the hat in with your fellow Irish, be a real political force in your own country than preside over a glorified county council while remaining Britain's last and most embarrassing colony.

owenc

walshb wrote: »

owen, do some research. Any Irish person who considers themselves Irish, or Nationalist or Republican should NEVER refer to the 6 counties as Northern Ireland. They don't do it. Now, you may not agree with this, but SURELY you can understand their point of view, or are you that ignorant to other peoples views about their country.

The same way that nobody who is Irish would call Derry by that other name that Unionists and Loyalists refer to.

Well i'm unionist and i don't say "londonderry" my mother would kill me and i would look like a bigot so it and me don't go very well, most other unionists wouldn't call it that either its only the bigots, i.e those in the orange order, but then again my great grandparents and away back were in it but they din't call it londonderry, it was mixed bag for them but then again all protestants were it in it back then as they were more bitter then.

Cavehill Red

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Nope different country

No it isn't. Here's a clue: the six counties are called Northern what, exactly?

Mike 1972 wrote: »

You might disapprove of the fact that is your prerogative but burying your head in the sand and pretending it is not the case just marks you out as delusional

Stating that Northern Ireland is part of Ireland is delusional? Or stating that it has separate rule to the rest of the country is delusional?
Either way, that's a pretty delusional point you seem to be making.

owenc

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Funny how quiet unionists can get when they're confronted with the reality of those from what they see as 'their camp' getting in touch with their Irish heritage and crossing the border from time to time.
It strikes me that perhaps the people most clinging to demographic hope are those of a unionist persuasion.
I regularly hear proposals for repartition (inevitably ceding most of West of the Bann) from people who are coming to realise that the number is up for their dead-end ideology and who are seeking its continuation in a diminished form.
Far better, I believe, to throw the hat in with your fellow Irish, be a real political force in your own country than preside over a glorified county council while remaining Britain's last and most embarrassing colony.

I live west of the bann and beleive it or not my area is the most protestant area in antrim or derry..

walshb

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Nope different country

You might disapprove of the fact that is your prerogative but burying your head in the sand and pretending it is not the case just marks you out as delusional



Doesnt need YOUR permission to call a country by its proper name.

Hey, a person can refer to it as they want, but if they claim to be Nationalist or Republican, then they can have it both ways, it cannot be, "I am nationalist and republican, and it's Northern Ireland." That is a fallacy, a paradox, a conundrum...

owenc

Cavehill Red wrote: »

No it isn't. Here's a clue: the six counties are called Northern what, exactly?



Stating that Northern Ireland is part of Ireland is delusional? Or stating that it has separate rule to the rest of the country is delusional?
Either way, that's a pretty delusional point you seem to be making.

Northern Ireland.

owenc

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Different country

Yes, but in their eyes it isn't.

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

I live west of the bann and beleive it or not my area is the most protestant area in antrim or derry..

You're probably not going to like some of the proposals floating around in TUV circles, then!
Very similar to the UDA proposals that McMichael cooked up in the 80s.
Back then it was called the doomsday plan. Nowadays, I think they're calling it 'what are we going to do after they vote to unify Ireland'.

Wolfe Tone

owenc wrote: »

I live west of the bann and beleive it or not my area is the most protestant area in antrim or derry..

Thats why you got the University.

Mike 1972

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Stating that Northern Ireland is part of Ireland is delusional?.

Stating that Northern Ireland (barring Rathlin) is part of the land mass generally known as "Ireland" is stating the blindingly obvious.

Stating that Northern Ireland is part of the country generally known as "Ireland" is delusional.

Stating that Northern Ireland should be part of the country generally known as "Ireland" is an opinion.

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

Yes, but in their eyes it isn't.

And this is the crux.
No matter what the endgame (and the GFA is emphatically only a parking mechanism) there will be people unhappy with the constitutional position.
The answer, which the GFA provided, is to address people's identity, and permit both British and Irish identities to be made available to all.
I've no problem with people in the North being British, feeling British, holding British passports or any of that.
What I object to is what I said initially - I object to being claimed as British if I personally don't consider myself such, and I object to NI being claimed as British because it simply, demonstrably, isn't part of the isle of Britain.
It's part of Ireland and always will be, no matter whoever rules it currently.

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats why you got the University.

No my area is more protestant than coleraine town itself, and my area didn't get the university so that ain't true. see here: http://www.ninis.nisra.gov.uk/mapxtreme/report.asp?INIT=YES&POSTCODE=BT514JL&DESC=FromGeneral&CurrentLevel=COA&ID=95JJ140002&Name=95JJ140002&Override=WARD&OverrideCode=95JJ14&OverrideName=MACOSQUIN look at the figures for coleraine and then my area.

Cavehill Red

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Stating that Northern Ireland (barring Rathlin) is part of the land mass generally known as "Ireland" is stating the blindingly obvious

Stating that Northern Ireland is part of the country generally known as "Ireland" is delusional

You don't like the terminology? It was yours to begin with.
Let's try again.
Ireland the island = 32 counties.
Ireland the nation = 32 counties.
Ireland the Republic = 26 counties.
Northern Ireland = colonial statelet.

owenc

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You don't like the terminology? It was yours to begin with.
Let's try again.
Ireland the island = 32 counties.
Ireland the nation = 32 counties.
Ireland the Republic = 26 counties.
Northern Ireland = colonial statelet.

Northern Ireland is not a colony as it is part of the United kingdom not an oversees teritory.

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

Well i'm unionist and i don't say "londonderry" my mother would kill me and i would look like a bigot so it and me don't go very well, most other unionists wouldn't call it that either its only the bigots, i.e those in the orange order, but then again my great grandparents and away back were in it but they din't call it londonderry, it was mixed bag for them but then again all protestants were it in it back then as they were more bitter then.

I think there's scope to name the walled historic city Londonderry, while retaining Derry as the name of the city and county.
Only bigots would seek to deny the legacy and history of the entity of Londonderry, and it could be a useful tourism hook.

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not a colony as it is part of the United kingdom not an oversees teritory.

Try walking to London if it's not overseas, lol!

Wolfe Tone

owenc wrote: »

No my area is more protestant than coleraine town itself, and my area didn't get the university so that ain't true. see here: http://www.ninis.nisra.gov.uk/mapxtreme/report.asp?INIT=YES&POSTCODE=BT514JL&DESC=FromGeneral&CurrentLevel=COA&ID=95JJ140002&Name=95JJ140002&Override=WARD&OverrideCode=95JJ14&OverrideName=MACOSQUIN look at the figures for coleraine and then my area.

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but is your area located directly beside Colraine town?

owenc

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I think there's scope to name the walled historic city Londonderry, while retaining Derry as the name of the city and county.
Only bigots would seek to deny the legacy and history of the entity of Londonderry, and it could be a useful tourism hook.

No the county is londonderry and that is officual that is one thing that i won't say derry to, its only the city that i won't say londonderry for as it dosn't sound right and is bigoted.

gurramok

owenc wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not a colony as it is part of the United kingdom not an oversees teritory.

Planting settlers is colonising a territory which was not belonging to Britain in 1599.

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but is your area located directly beside Colraine town?

Yes but its not in the town.

owenc

gurramok wrote: »

Planting settlers is colonising a territory which was not belonging to Britain in 1599.

I'm not a colonist! :eek: lol

Daemos

The Brits have brummytom - so they can't be that bad :pac:

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

No the county is londonderry and that is officual that is one thing that i won't say londonderry to, its only the city that i won't say londonderry for as it dosn't sound right and is bigoted.

I appreciate that's how things stand currently. Personally, I'd like to see it become county Coleraine again, but that's just me.
Furthermore, NI no longer recognises counties but boroughs, so the people actually using counties tend to be people who'd like to see it called Derry.
I don't really mind either way, as I don't live there. But I think I'd tend to refer to the city and county as Derry, but the walled historic city as Londonderry, as in the Londonderry walls, etc.

Mike 1972

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Ireland the island = 32 counties.

Whatever

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Ireland the Republic = 26 counties.

The number of local administrative subdivisions within the Republic is entirely a matter for them.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Ireland the nation = 32 counties.

Contradict yourself much ?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Northern Ireland = colonial statelet.

A colonial statelet which elects members to Parliament ?????

You really need to seek help dealing with these delusions of yours

gurramok wrote: »

Planting settlers is colonising a territory which was not belonging to Britain in 1599.

Should all of Europe revert to the boundaries of 1599 ?

Wolfe Tone

owenc wrote: »

Yes but its not in the town.

Well then the point I made is perfectly valid! I dont know what you are on about half the time!

Wolfe Tone

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

The Brits have brummytom - so they can't be that bad :pac:

But he loves Luke Kelly so he is ok

Cavehill Red

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Whatever

There's that unionist inability to respond again...

Mike 1972 wrote: »

The number of local administrative subdivisions within the Republic is entirely a matter for them.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Contradict yourself much ?

Rarely, if ever. I don't think anyone else here finds what I've written to be contradictory.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

A colonial statelet which elects members to Parliament ?????

Yes, that's the one.
Just like these other colonial statelets which elect members to the colonising parliament:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_departments_and_territories_of_France#Political_representation_in_the_French_Parliament

Winty

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

The Brits have brummytom - so they can't be that bad :pac:

I like your style

owenc

Cavehill Red wrote: »

There's that unionist inability to respond again...ce#Political_representation_in_the_French_Parliament[/url]

he's not unionist he's from down south

Andrew33

It is nice having the gang tell us whats what, Ireland is Ireland and we are who we are. If you ain't Irish, **** off.

Cavehill Red

owenc wrote: »

he's not unionist he's from down south

You don't think there can be unionists, neo-partitionists or indeed those who feel British in the Republic?
Try googling Reform Movement. Or Brian Hayes (although he might deny the feeling British bit!)

drakshug

Derry? Londonderry? Derry is less of a mouthful.
Doesn't the orange song say we'll guard old Derry's Walls?
Not living there I wouldn't know but I've found most of the vehemence and posturing is found outside NI. America, ROI, Scotland and Northern England amongst those who have never set foot in the six counties.
BTW. I call people from Northern Ireland........ Northern Irish. Believe it or not us non Irish can hear the difference though people from Donegal get us mixed up.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Andrew33 wrote: »

It is nice having the gang tell us whats what, Ireland is Ireland and we are who we are. If you ain't Irish, **** off.

What?

Cavehill Red

drakshug wrote: »

Not living there I wouldn't know but I've found most of the vehemence and posturing is found outside NI. America, ROI, Scotland and Northern England amongst those who have never set foot in the six counties.

Most of the violence tends to be found within NI, though. :mad:

hatful

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/75391/omnibus-obama-conspiracy-theory


Those pesky Brits even the yanks agree

ejmaztec

Jazlyn Elegant Sauerkraut wrote: »

What?

He's being bold.