The British: Like, hate or feel completely indifferent??

Donkey Oaty

K-9 wrote: »

On page 8 myself.

What was the nookie like back them? Getting us back to AH and on topic.

Sadly, Interpol have deleted all the good stuff.

Donkey Oaty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Don't a couple of Irish chaps own a B&B over there?

They made a few quid on Horses apparantly!!

Prediction: in the year 2100 this line will appear in a BBC2 one-off drama.

owenc

gurramok wrote: »

Always according to the Irish. Never according to the British who invented the term.

I prefer the term Irish Isles myself



There are people in northern ireland who are Irish too. Perhaps they live right beside you and you do not know it, the shock!:rolleyes:

Maybe not i live in the highest protestant area in northern ireland my area is 88% and the wee village up the road is 99.8 or something % protestant so that means nearly everyone will be british.:P

walshb

owenc wrote: »

I live here, its northern ireland that is the officual name ok sunshine.

Yeah, well, to me the name is the North of Ireland, problem with this?

walshb

To be honest, I feel sorry for people who "hate" English people because of geography. It is very sad, and akin to "hating" someone because of the colour of their skin. What it must feel like to hate a person because of geography?

Am I pro English or British? No. Do I agree with a lot of what they did here? No. Do I consider
the North of Ireland a part of the U.K? No. Do I hate Britain? No.

btard

Cleeo wrote: »

I moved to England nearly 2 years ago. You get the assholes, and you get some really lovely folk. Like in Ireland.

The only thing that bothers me is a quite high proportion of people I have talked to either have no idea of the history between the 2 countries, or think Ireland is part of the UK. Which at first infuriated me, but then I felt more kinda... sorry for the ones that thought that. Because they're tools.

This is very common. It not just a few "tools" either. I spent some of my early years in England. The education system is attrocious. Most english people have no idea of the history of their nearest neihbour. I also lived there for some years as an adult. Some of the stupid statements about Ireland and the Irish I've heard from otherwise inteligent english people would make your hair stand on end. Other than their ignorance of Ireland I found them harmless enough if a little strange at times.

walshb

The education system is atrocious? Do you mean as it relates to educating them about the Irish, or in general?

Because if it's about the Irish, what is the big deal. We are a small and "insignificant"
country in their eyes. Maybe they don't care all that much about educating themselves
about us.

who the fug

What was that yapping

Fratton Fred

btard wrote: »

This is very common. It not just a few "tools" either. I spent some of my early years in England. The education system is attrocious. Most english people have no idea of the history of their nearest neihbour.

maybe not, but we do cover the Norman conquest, both world wars and in some places the Suez crisis. French is also the standard foreign language taught in schools.

A great deal of English history does actuallu involve the French, but that's not what you meant is it?

Fratton Fred

walshb wrote: »

The education system is atrocious? Do you mean as it relates to educating them about the Irish, or in general?

Because if it's about the Irish, what is the big deal. We are a small and "insignificant"
country in their eyes. Maybe they don't care all that much about educating themselves
about us.

Two of the top universities in the world, but because kids don't know about a few guys in a post office the education system is crap!!

Or maybe you're right, in the grand scheme of things, Ireland just isn't that important.

getz

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, well, to me the name is the North of Ireland, problem with this?

and there is always the south of ireland

walshb

getz wrote: »

and there is always the south of ireland

And the West, now, you finish.

getz

and if you live in lancashire,like me, you may well believe there is a east of ireland

Sonnenblumen

walshb wrote: »

Do I consider
the North of Ireland a part of the U.K? No.

Political statements/aspirations aside, do you mean the north of Ireland ie border counties including Monaghan, Donegal, Cavan etc within the Republic? Or are you suggesting Northern Ireland (which is outside the jurisdiction of the Republic) is not part of the UK?

I suspect the latter, but any judge would laugh at your erroneous claim?

aDeener

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Two of the top universities in the world, but because kids don't know about a few guys in a post office the education system is crap!!

Or maybe you're right, in the grand scheme of things, Ireland just isn't that important.

as a matter of interest would you have learned about atrocities committed by the british in other parts of the empire in your history class?

i have to say i can see why ireland is not gone into great detail but you would think being such a close neighbour there would be a better understanding of relations between the 2 nations

Fratton Fred

aDeener wrote: »

as a matter of interest would you have learned about atrocities committed by the british in other parts of the empire in your history class?

i have to say i can see why ireland is not gone into great detail but you would think being such a close neighbour there would be a better understanding of relations between the 2 nations

Amritsar was mentioned but that was probably it. The slave trade obviously gets a mention, but as my history kind of stopped with the league of nations, there's not a lot to talk about. Most of the political stuff talked about happened a lot more recently.

I have no doubt that history lessons in the UK would be of a biased nature, but don't forget, Irish history lessons would be biased as well.

To put things into perspective, British governments talk about the "Special Relationship" with the US, but in reality it is only special to the British. Yeah, we're good mates and all that, but we are America's little cousin who the US kind of finds handy to have around.

I would say the UK - Irish special relationship is not too different.

Nodin

aDeener wrote: »

as a matter of interest would you have learned about atrocities committed by the british in other parts of the empire in your history class?

Bugger all, going on a recent thread.

The_Kew_Tour

The english are fine. You never get any hassle from them when you go to match over or go out because your Irish. I dont think it be same way all time if vice versa.

At least if one there government ministers was caught doing the stuff that our cowboys have been doing they be sacked straight away. We could learn thing or two from them in that respect anyway.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Bugger all, going on a recent thread.

You'd be surprised.

What do the Spanish, French or Portugese learn about history?

In Algeria are there sad people who's sole purpose in life is to criticise the French to make themselves feel less worthless. I wonder if the term South French is used for people who don't?

ABajaninCork

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Don't a couple of Irish chaps own a B&B over there?

They made a few quid on Horses apparantly!!

Yeah - a little shack called Sandy Lane that takes up most of the interior of our little island...

But we Bajans bear no malice!

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You'd be surprised.

What do the Spanish, French or Portugese learn about history?

I've no idea. I queried if they too had people who went on as if nothing bad had happened in the same recent thread.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In Algeria are there sad people who's sole purpose in life is to criticise the French to make themselves feel less worthless. I wonder if the term South French is used for people who don't?

Empires, Imperialism and colonialism are evil things. Thats the case no matter whose it was. I suggest dealing with the fact.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Empires, Imperialism and colonialism are evil things. Thats the case no matter whose it was. I suggest dealing with the fact.

I can, can you deal with Ireland's part in it all or will you just write off any Irishman involved as a West Brit, Anglo Irish Traitor?

The europeans were a disease for a long long time.

walshb

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Political statements/aspirations aside, do you mean the north of Ireland ie border counties including Monaghan, Donegal, Cavan etc within the Republic? Or are you suggesting Northern Ireland (which is outside the jurisdiction of the Republic) is not part of the UK?

I suspect the latter, but any judge would laugh at your erroneous claim?

Erroneous claim? To be honest, judges don't impress me much, as most are living in a ****ing fantasy world.

Anyway, to your question. I was referring to the 6 Counties in the North
of Ireland. They are: Derry, Fermanagh, Tyrone, Antrim, Down and Armagh.

These six counties are part of the island of Ireland, and to me they are not
a part of the U.K

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I can, can you deal with Ireland's part in it all or will you just write off any Irishman involved as a West Brit, Anglo Irish Traitor?.

Part of the great perversion of Empire is that it enlists the people under its rule to enforce its will on their own subjugated nations, and to help subjugate others, and to convince them that they do good in doing so.

Winty

walshb wrote: »

These six counties are part of the island of Ireland, and to me they are not a part of the U.K

Erroneous claim?

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Part of the great perversion of Empire is that it enlists the people under its rule to enforce its will on their own subjugated nations, and to help subjugate others, and to convince them that they do good in doing so.

I thought not.

Most people who joined up did so because there was money involved, or because the British offered them new opportunities. Which is pretty much what you said but without the excuses.

walshb

Winty wrote: »

Erroneous claim?

No

Winty

walshb wrote: »

These six counties are part of the island of Ireland, and to me they are not a part of the U.K

So the 6 counties are what sorry?

Fratton Fred

walshb wrote: »

Anyway, to your question. I was referring to the 6 Counties in the North
of Ireland. They are: Derry, Fermanagh, Tyrone, Antrim, Down and Armagh.

These six counties are part of the island of Ireland, and to me they are not
a part of the U.K

To me, Pompey are the greatest football team in the world.

The evidence is somewhat different though.

walshb

Winty wrote: »

So the 6 counties are what sorry?

The 6 counties are the 6 counties. Is this difficult?

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought not.

Most people who joined up did so because there was money involved, or because the British offered them new opportunities. Which is pretty much what you said but without the excuses.

Some knew no better. Some did. Not having been there in every corner of the world for the few hundred years involved to see exactly which is which and who is who, I take the larger view.

Winty

walshb wrote: »

The 6 counties are the 6 counties. Is this difficult?

If you dont want them to be in the UK thats cool, you can have what you want in Walshb land.

But to say that they are not in the UK is a Erroneous claim because everone including Sinn Fein knows that the 6 counties are for the time being a part of the UK.

But dont like the truth have any effect on what you want to believe.

walshb

I guess it all boils down to a "legal" and moral issue, doesn't it?

Sinn Fein will never accept or believe that the six counties are part of the U.K, time being or not, don't be so naive to think they do accept or believe.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Some knew no better. Some did. Not having been there in every corner of the world for the few hundred years involved to see exactly which is which and who is who, I take the larger view.

I had a good discussion about this with a group of Indians. Some were over for six months working, others went to Uni in the UK and a couple were sons of Sikhs who moved to the UK from Kenya.

They couldn't agree themselves on why people did it, but they generally agreed that British rule in India was just a part of a long and fairly turbulent history of the sub continent. The amazing thing is, they see a lot more positives than negatives from the whole thing. They generally agreed that India's current economic success would not have been possible unless the country was effectively created by the Raj.

To simply say that the people of India were subjugated and effectively forced to work for the empire is very very misleading.

If you ever get the chance, try it yourself, I find it fascinating talking with Indians, although brush up on your cricket first, the conversation usually ends up there!

walshb

Like it or not, the English and British did civilise a lot of the earth. Hey, they did harm too, but they also did a lot of good.

Let us be honest, if WE here in Ireland were that powerful we too would be dominating the earth.
Sure just look how we wanna' take over Africa.

Winty

walshb wrote: »

Sinn Fein will never accept or believe that the six counties are part of the U.k, time being or not, don't be so naive to think they do accept or believe.

OMG Naive :eek:

So Sinn Fein do not believe the 6 counties are in the UK ?

So what is re-unification about if Ireland is one country ???

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams has initiated a renewed campaign around Irish unity to build widespread support in Ireland for re-unification

Taken from Sinn Fein Website

Winty

walshb wrote: »

Like it or not, the English and British did civilise a lot of the earth. Hey, they did harm too, but they also did a lot of good.

Let us be honest, if WE here in Ireland were that powerful we too would be dominating the earth.
Sure just look how we wanna' take over Africa.

Well we can agree on one point the English have done some good somewhere

Nodin

And you'll find any number who disagree with the notion, not to mention those who dismiss India as currently constituted, like the seperatists active in Kashmir, Assam, Bodoland and a few others I can't remember.

walshb

Winty wrote: »

OMG Naive :eek:

So Sinn Fein do not believe the 6 counties are in the UK ?

So what is re-unification about if Ireland is one country ???



Taken from Sinn Fein Website

You can quote any text from any site, but don't ever think that any Nationalist, Republican or Sinn Fein member TRULY believes that the 6 counties are part of the U.K

Similarly, should you ever hear an Orangeman talk about embracing and dialogue and accepting catholics, gays or any other section of society not like them, think twice.

Did you really believe that the likes of David Trimble and others really wanted to embrace Sinn Fein, deal with Sinn Fein etc? They have to, they don't want to. There is a big difference.

Fratton Fred

walshb wrote: »

Like it or not, the English and British did civilise a lot of the earth. Hey, they did harm too, but they also did a lot of good.

Let us be honest, if WE here in Ireland were that powerful we too would be dominating the earth.
Sure just look how we wanna' take over Africa.

Every european country had an empire of sorts, even the Belgians.

The British, thanks to the military skills of the Irish, administrative skills of the Scottish and naval skills of the English were just a lot better at it than most others.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Like it or not, the English and British did civilise a lot of the earth.

Arrive - run the place along undemocratic racist lines, set populations against each other, subvert local interests to that of the 'motherland' - leave - mumble something about 'now you're a democracy' on the way up the gang plank.

Brilliant stuff. And just look how well its turned out.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

And you'll find any number who disagree with the notion, not to mention those who dismiss India as currently constituted, like the seperatists active in Kashmir, Assam, Bodoland and a few others I can't remember.

People from Cork say the same thing about Ireland.

The break up of India was a rushed, botched **** up caused by people who had good intentions and no ability or understanding of the situation.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

Arrive - run the place along undemocratic racist lines, set populations against each other, subvert local interests to that of the 'motherland' - leave - mumble something about 'now you're a democracy' on the way up the gang plank.

Brilliant stuff. And just look how well its turned out.

Always focusing on the negative, aren't you?

Winty

walshb wrote: »

You can quote any text from any site, but don't ever think that any Nationalist, Republican or Sinn Fein member TRULY believes that the 6 counties are part of the U.K

Of Course no Nationalist, Republican or Sinn Fein member TRULY believes, they all want a United Ireland. But you state that the 6 counties are not in the UK.
They Are, No Ifs or Buts or Maybe's

You made an Erroneous Claim

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Arrive - run the place along undemocratic racist lines, set populations against each other, subvert local interests to that of the 'motherland' - leave - mumble something about 'now you're a democracy' on the way up the gang plank.

Brilliant stuff. And just look how well its turned out.

Arrive, unify a country, create a good infrastructure, education system, world leading public transport and one of the wealthiest leading cities in the world.

Then leave and let Fianna Fail **** it all up.

walshb

Winty wrote: »

Of Course no Nationalist, Republican or Sinn Fein member TRULY believes, they all want a United Ireland. But you state that the 6 counties are not in the UK.
They Are, No Ifs or Buts or Maybe's

You made an Erroneous Claim

Our wires seemed to have been crossed. I did mention that legal and moral issues differ. That is all I will say.

In my heart and in what I believe, the 6 counties are not in the U.K, and no amount of text or legal jargon
will change this.

Winty

Nodin wrote: »

Arrive - run the place along undemocratic racist lines, set populations against each other, subvert local interests to that of the 'motherland' - leave - mumble something about 'now you're a democracy' on the way up the gang plank.

Brilliant stuff. And just look how well its turned out.

We do all realise this has all happen in the past and is done and dusted.

What does the average person from England have to do with the empire. They are just like us looking to pay the bills and enjoy life

walshb

Winty wrote: »

We do all realise this has all happen in the past and is done and dusted.

What does the average person from England have to do with the empire. They are just like us looking to pay the bills and enjoy life

Exactly: Hating English or British people today because of history.

Winty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Arrive, unify a country, create a good infrastructure, education system, world leading public transport and one of the wealthiest leading cities in the world.

Then leave and let Fianna Fail **** it all up.

Come on Nodin

He has a good point

rovert

Love Irish people's inferiority complex

Continue lads