Babies hurt in fox attack?

EGAR

Baby twins badly hurt in fox attack
Yesterday, 11:09 pm

Two baby sisters are seriously ill in hospital after an apparent fox attack at their home. Skip related content

Baby twins badly hurt in fox attack

Police said the nine-month-old twins were in a "serious but stable" condition after being hurt while sleeping in their cots on Saturday night.

Officers and paramedics were called to a house in Stoke Newington, north London, to reports that the animal had attacked the pair.

The little girls are being treated at the Royal London Hospital. They both reportedly suffered arm wounds and one of the girls was believed to have facial injuries.

The fox was believed to have been in an upstairs room.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "The incident is not being treated as suspicious.

"We were called to reports of a fox attack. Officers and the ambulance found two girls with injuries."

In 2002, mother Sue Eastwood claimed her baby boy, Louis, was left injured after a fox crept into their house while she slept.

The fourteen-week-old suffered bite marks on his head after the animal darted into the sitting room of the house in Dartford, Kent.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100606/tuk-baby-twins-badly-hurt-in-fox-attack-dba1618.html

morganafay

I hope they'll be ok, but I think it's pretty stupid that the fox was killed because of it. It wasn't being vicious or anything, it's a wild animal.

homerhop

morganafay wrote: »

it's a wild animal.

If it was a dog that had attacked it would be destroyed immediately, but i also understand what you are saying.
It also highlights the fact that people should treat them as wild animals and not creatures that can be tamed or as is so popular now compared to humans in their characteristics. In other countries park and wildlife rangers are making it more of a point that we as humans should not be feeding wild animals as they are losing their fear and leads to such incidents as this.
Now I am sure there will be folks who will say a fox would not do such a thing or are too small etc but the fact remains the same that foxes are natural hunters and a nine month old child is not that big.

morganafay

homerhop wrote: »

If it was a dog that had attacked it would be destroyed immediately, but i also understand what you are saying.

Yeah I know what you mean, but it really is different if it was a dog. It's like I've heard people say "Mink are horrible vicious animals, they've attacked babies" but they're not vicious, they're wild. And killing the animal won't help, because there will always just be more foxes that would do the same thing.

I think a fox would do it, because a baby is defenseless. Any big enough carnivore would. And it was just an accident that it happened. Foxes aren't exactly dangerous animals, like a wolf or bear or tiger or something.

homerhop

I am trying to find a report for you that was done by wildlife experts a few years ago when the activists released the mink in England in which they said in ratio size mink is one of the most vicious animals with no fear, and after the release a few years ago park rangers reported swans being attacked by mink and even a case of a child in a buggy.

The fox in question was dangerous as it had no fear in entering a house and attacking 2 babies so in fairness how can that be an accident?

peasant

I wonder ...was that fox just overly inquisitive and got trapped in the room or do urban foxes regularly get the cheek to enter houses now?

Or perhaps the fox had rabies? (I hope not, for the sake of the kids)

homerhop

Perhaps a bit of both, but urban foxes because of their close living contact with humans along with naive people feeding them is causing them to lose their fear of us.

mymo

I have friends and relatives in London, and the foxes are not like the ones we see here.
People feed and encourage interaction with them and some are more like dogs than wild animals, I have seen one sit and wait to be hand fed.
I think this is where the problem lies, people treat them like this and they loose the fear of people, they see houses as a source of food. I know someone who had to call the local council as he couldn't leave a door or window open because a family of foxes kept entering the house, neighbours had been feeding it and encouraging it to enter their house, and the cubs became so tame they could pet them. This house had to be treated for fleas and ticks, as well as cleaned as they soiled the house every time they got in.
These are wild animals and people see them as cool *pets* to have and show them off to friends. With all the free food they are becoming a serious problem in parts of London and they do attack pets, I know of several rabbits, guineas and 2 cats that have been killed or seriously mauled in the cats cases(both cases fox was seen attacking cats).
I like foxes and think they're beautiful, BUT they are a wild animal and should be treated as such, and left to live in peace.

morganafay

homerhop wrote: »

I am trying to find a report for you that was done by wildlife experts a few years ago when the activists released the mink in England in which they said in ratio size mink is one of the most vicious animals with no fear, and after the release a few years ago park rangers reported swans being attacked by mink and even a case of a child in a buggy.

The fox in question was dangerous as it had no fear in entering a house and attacking 2 babies so in fairness how can that be an accident?

Ok maybe mink are very fearless hunters, I just don't think vicious is the right word. Because wild carnivores are just hunting. It's like if a dog killed a rat or something, I wouldn't call that vicious, but if it bit a person, then that could be vicious. Otherwise it is just hunting. And a mink or fox doesn't know that a baby human is any different to a rabbit or rat or anything, you know?

I mean it was an accident that the parents left the door open and a fox happened to come in. I don't think the fox knew there were babies there, but just wandered in, and it was unlucky that at this time nobody noticed it and the children were asleep. Foxes are dangerous to babies who are unprotected yes, all foxes, but it was unlucky that this happened. I just meant that foxes aren't really a danger to people in most cases. Most animals could be dangerous to babies in some situations.

morganafay

peasant wrote: »

I wonder ...was that fox just overly inquisitive and got trapped in the room or do urban foxes regularly get the cheek to enter houses now?

Or perhaps the fox had rabies? (I hope not, for the sake of the kids)

Yeah or maybe the fox was looking for food, and could smell some inside, or in the rubbish, and wandered in.

Is there rabies in England? If so I understand why they killed it, but I think England is rabies free . . . correct me if I'm wrong though.

biko

Another article show they trapped a fox later that day and that was the fox killed.
It's not certain the fox killed was the fox biting the children.

Since the incident pest controllers set fox traps in the back garden of the house. A fox was discovered in one of the traps on Sunday night and was destroyed by a vet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/10251349.stm

lrushe

peasant wrote: »

I wonder ...was that fox just overly inquisitive and got trapped in the room or do urban foxes regularly get the cheek to enter houses now?

My guess would be the fox was curious rather than outrightly searching houses for babies, foxes are creatures of opportunity, the babies probably smelt of food as babies do and a foxes only was of seeing if something is good to eat is to bite it, imo this is most likely what happened.

planetX

mymo wrote: »

I have friends and relatives in London, and the foxes are not like the ones we see here.
People feed and encourage interaction with them and some are more like dogs than wild animals, I have seen one sit and wait to be hand fed.
I think this is where the problem lies, people treat them like this and they loose the fear of people, they see houses as a source of food. I know someone who had to call the local council as he couldn't leave a door or window open because a family of foxes kept entering the house, neighbours had been feeding it and encouraging it to enter their house, and the cubs became so tame they could pet them. This house had to be treated for fleas and ticks, as well as cleaned as they soiled the house every time they got in.
These are wild animals and people see them as cool *pets* to have and show them off to friends. With all the free food they are becoming a serious problem in parts of London and they do attack pets, I know of several rabbits, guineas and 2 cats that have been killed or seriously mauled in the cats cases(both cases fox was seen attacking cats).
I like foxes and think they're beautiful, BUT they are a wild animal and should be treated as such, and left to live in peace.

I think you've nailed it, I can't imagine a wild fox entering a house like that. Someone has been interacting with it, and it has learned to associate humans with food. Bad bad idea.

mosi

Of course, a trawl of the news sites is producing lots of hysterical, knee jerk reactions calling for a cull, and condemning foxes as vermin.
Interesting that lots of people in the neighbourhood where it happened, including the twins' parents are saying how foxes had been a problem for a while there. If that is the case, then surely they should have been more vigilant and kept the doors closed...in fact they be thankful that it was not something worse, such as a paedophile, that came in the open door.
Unsurprisingly, pest control firms have been the most vocal in calling for urban fox populations to be controlled...definitely a vested interest there.
I have spent time in different parts of Africa, where animals such as monkeys and jackals are often found close to human settlement, and this is accepted as a part of life (although I acknowledge that ocassionally there are problems). The point is though, that people adapt to this coexistence - indeed, those living around game reserves have lions, elephants etc to contend with. Of course, a golden rule is not to feed wild animals and to ensure that refuse is not easily accessed by them. This applies everywhere, from the wilds of Africa to dingo habitat in Australia and to our own back gardens. I understand that it was quite the fashion in the UK in recent years, for people to feed foxes in their gardens and to invite the neighbours around to watch the furry visitors.
While it is terrible that these children have been harmed, education about living around wildlife is needed instead of mass hysteria.

morganafay

mosi wrote: »

Of course, a trawl of the news sites is producing lots of hysterical, knee jerk reactions calling for a cull, and condemning foxes as vermin.

That's what I thought would happen. I think it's awful, since this was just an accident, and it can be avoided in future by people being more careful. I'm not saying it was the parents' fault, it was just an accident, but there is no need to cull foxes because of it.

Sigma Force

If this story is 100% true then it sounds like a 1 in a zillion chance, the dfox could easily of panicked being trapped in a room. As said hope people don't go getting all paranoid and foxes in general are shot left right and center over a freak incident.

Discodog

In a survey about wildlife in their garden completed by nearly 4000 household across Britain, 65.7% liked urban foxes, 25.8% had no strong views and only 8.5% disliked urban foxes.

Pest controllers are fanning the flames as they would love the income. London may act because Boris is a pro hunting Tory Mayor & he is already talking about the need for "pest control".

The facts are that a lot of people "support" the fox population. Many derive pleasure from feeding them which is technically wrong. But I love the idea that ordinary people care enough about animals & show compassion.

Many city dwellers care a lot about their urban wildlife. There is something magical about a wild animal coming close & developing some trust even though it generally not a good idea.

Given the huge number of foxes & the amount of human fox interaction, these incidents are incredibly rare. Closing your door to prevent a fox entering is probably on a par with staying indoors if there is any chance of thunder.

morganafay

Discodog wrote: »

Given the huge number of foxes & the amount of human fox interaction, these incidents are incredibly rare. Closing your door to prevent a fox entering is probably on a par with staying indoors if there is any chance of thunder.

Exaclty. Ireland and England are pretty safe countries, as far as wildlife is concerned.

lrushe

Discodog wrote: »

Pest controllers are fanning the flames as they would love the income. London may act because Boris is a pro hunting Tory Mayor & he is already talking about the need for "pest control".

The media is no better, one newspaper I read today spoke about foxes 'glaring' at people in the neighbourhood, last week those same people would have loved catching the eye of a wild fox, this week they are complaining about being glared at. People are so fickle but that is just ignorance, shame on those trying to make a quick buck at their (and the foxes) expense despite the fact that according to one report I was watching today there is no other offically authenticated case of a fox attack in the UK.

fits

Its not the fact that the fox wandered into a house that I find strange, its the unprovoked attack on sleeping babies. Thats really unusual behaviour.

Theres always a freak I guess.

I wish people would let wild animals be wild animals all the same. No good comes of feeding them.

morganafay

fits wrote: »

Its not the fact that the fox wandered into a house that I find strange, its the unprovoked attack on sleeping babies. Thats really unusual behaviour.

Theres always a freak I guess.

I wish people would let wild animals be wild animals all the same. No good comes of feeding them.

Would they do it if they were really hungry? Why wouldn't they attack babies?

fits

Its just not known for them to attack humans at all unless cornered. Babies are humans, they smell like humans. Its just very weird.

snaps

eeemmmm, im not to sure about this whole thing. im currently in uk, when this news 1st broke, it wasn't confirmed that it was a fox attack. also the parents said they didn't witness the attack. now all of a sudden since the press are dishing out story money, their (the parents) are coming out with conflicting stories. today the uk mirror ran a 3 page story, with the parents saying they chased the fox out of the bedroom with a piece of wood! im actually wondering if this fox attack actually happened? call me old fashioned, but something to me is just not right here.

Morganna

snaps wrote: »

eeemmmm, im not to sure about this whole thing. im currently in uk, when this news 1st broke, it wasn't confirmed that it was a fox attack. also the parents said they didn't witness the attack. now all of a sudden since the press are dishing out story money, their (the parents) are coming out with conflicting stories. today the uk mirror ran a 3 page story, with the parents saying they chased the fox out of the bedroom with a piece of wood! im actually wondering if this fox attack actually happened? call me old fashioned, but something to me is just not right here.

I totally agree snaps something not quite right about it.

Run_to_da_hills

I once again blame the lidded wheely bin.

homerhop

In a survey about wildlife in their garden completed by nearly 4000 household across Britain, 65.7% liked urban foxes, 25.8% had no strong views and only 8.5% disliked urban foxes.

Are you sure they even knew what they were looking at?
From the National wildlife trust in England "Children today spend so little time outdoors that much of Britain’s most common wildlife remains completely alien to them, according to our new survey."

Pest controllers are fanning the flames as they would love the income. London may act because Boris is a pro hunting Tory Mayor & he is already talking about the need for "pest control".

Does that include the right honourable J Bryant who stands to make €80 an hour from it?

ordinary people care enough about animals & show compassion.

Perhaps it would show more compassion for the animal if people stopped feeding them and if animal welfare groups pushed the fact that it is not good for wild animals to be fed in such a way.

Many city dwellers care a lot about their urban wildlife

Again from the national wildlife trust survey
"One in three cannot identify a magpie, one of the UK’s most common and most distinctive birds, while half couldn’t tell the difference between a bee
and a wasp.
# 29 per cent failed to spot a magpie, despite the numbers soaring three-fold over the past 30 years
# Only 47 per cent of children correctly identified a barn owl
# One in three failed to recognise a Red Admiral, Britain’s best-known butterfly
# Children in Northern Ireland – where half couldn’t recognise a magpie – were least able to identify common wildlife

jacknife

I read it somewhere that it may have been the smell of the nappies that attracted the fox, as people were leaving nappies outside and there is a smell of food from it and the fox went into the house maybe tried to get the nappy off and panicked.

Its an unfortunate incident, people should start becoming careful by not leaving bins open, closing doors and by not leaving out food for wild animals.

If someone could come up with a device to put in your garden to scare the foxes away when they enter it might take off, i know one farmer who used a wind turbine to charge an electric fence and he wired a radio in at night to scare foxes away from lambs, it worked, maybe a ultrasonic device which could emit a high pitched sound, otherwise unfortunatly they will be trapped, poisioned or shot, like wolves foxes are portrayed poorly in childrens stories and fairy tales, the sly, greedy fox, etc

snaps

After reading all the media and reports these seems to be the so called facts of this:
Parents were watching "Britains got talent" when the attack happened, so this would have been between 8-9.30pm?? Its very rare to see a fox at this time of the evening in what was a very bright hot summers evening in London (Ive never seen a fox in the evening, early light morning yes, but never in the evening)
Fox came in from the back garden doors, through the living room parents were watching tv in, up 2 storys of stairs into childrens bedroom.
1st of all father said cot sides were not fully up.
Then they said cot sides were fully up.
Both parents said in 1st statement that they didnt know what happened.
Then 2 days later they said they caught the fox in one of the cots, trying to grab one of the babies, then they chased it out of the house with a piece of wood????
They have said it was possibly a cub, not fully grown? Surely cubs this time of year would still be very young and still hanging around with the parents??

We have very tame foxes in our estate, they are very tame (You can near enough pet 1 of them on the head), But they are scared of my 2 cats, who themselves have no fear of the foxes.
The fox/foxes have never entered my house or anyone elses house (As far as i know) on my estate even if doors are open.
Im quite quilty as well for feeding the foxes cheap dog food which they throughly enjoy. Some mornings they are waiting outside my house for food.

Something makes me think this was a dog attack, no mention if the family had a dog or even friends had a dog??

It all doesnt seem right to me, the 1st fact that it happened so early in bright daylight.

morganafay

snaps wrote: »

After reading all the media and reports these seems to be the so called facts of this:
Parents were watching "Britains got talent" when the attack happened, so this would have been between 8-9.30pm?? Its very rare to see a fox at this time of the evening in what was a very bright hot summers evening in London (Ive never seen a fox in the evening, early light morning yes, but never in the evening)
Fox came in from the back garden doors, through the living room parents were watching tv in, up 2 storys of stairs into childrens bedroom.
1st of all father said cot sides were not fully up.
Then they said cot sides were fully up.
Both parents said in 1st statement that they didnt know what happened.
Then 2 days later they said they caught the fox in one of the cots, trying to grab one of the babies, then they chased it out of the house with a piece of wood????
They have said it was possibly a cub, not fully grown? Surely cubs this time of year would still be very young and still hanging around with the parents??

Something makes me think this was a dog attack, no mention if the family had a dog or even friends had a dog??

That is really weird. I don't want to be accusing the parents of stuff, but it is weird how they changed the story.

homerhop

Its also weird how little people seem to know about foxes, and still people proud as punch that they have taken a wild animal and are trying to turn it into a "pet". How hard is it to understand that feeding wild amimals in such a way is doing them no favours at all. If you are going to leave food out for them put it at such a distance that contact is at a very minimum.

snaps

yes im very guilty for feeding foxes! Oh well, rather them have food given to them then they rumage through the bins!