Eirgrid in Rush - Mod Warning in Post #1

Kickstart

Eirgrid starting work in Rush on June 28th:mad:. Public meeting in Rush Community Centre at 8.30pm tomorrow night, wednesday 9th for concerned residents.


Mod Warning -

1. There should be no discussion of 'health issues' unless new information (i.e. not already covered in this thread) can be provided, and you can back-up your statements, which means stating your source - no unsubstantiated speculation will be allowed.
2. Any trolling, abuse or off-topic comments will not be tolerated & the poster will be banned.


If there is something you wish to post, and are unsure if it is acceptable in light of the above, PM Beasty or Hill Billy first.

dan_d

I'm from Rush and went to the Information weekend Eirgrid had here last year (?).
I see the signs on the road. Can someone please explain to me in a rational manner (ie no smart comments, as this is a genuine question), what Rush people are supposed to be mad about. I understand the road works up the main street will be a gigantic pain in the a*%e, but beyond that I don't remember there being any other huge issues.

Kickstart

Dan, I for one am not looking forward to it. The issues I personally see are as follows:

Route: through main st, passing creche, national school, residential areas. Cue traffic chaos particularly at school times.

Impact on businesses in the town: who will want to walk up main street let alone park and do shopping there when all this is going on. Its hard enough on traders as it is.

Traffic management: Traffic will no doubt avoid the main st, sandy road and channel rd when works are ongoing and divert to the likes of Palmer Rd, Brook Rd, South Shore Rd, Sundrive Rd etc. All roads with totally inadequate road surfaces I'm sure you'll agree not to mention the lack of footpaths on most stretches. Hence also a safety concern particularly for those with young children living on these roads.

Proximity of works to homes: I have spoken to home owners on the route who are concerned at the close proximity of the works to their homes, the lack of any conclusive evidence stating that these lines are 100% safe and the possible effect that this may have on the value of their homes.

Future: No one knows what inconveniences may lie ahead if ever faults on the line.

In summary, I don't think a project of this nature should ever have been given authorisation from an bord pleanala so yes I am mad that this is happening. In another year or two the roads will be dug up again to replace ageing sewerage network so there is more to come. I feel Rush has been dumped on so to speak and think we deserve to be more than adequately compensated at this stage. That is only my opinion however.

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dan_d

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Okay, so the main problem is the works that will be required. Which I do understand as, let's face it, Rush main street is a disaster most of the time. However it's a temporary measure. If you were to demand anything of Eirgrid, it would be an extremely detailed version of their traffic management plan and sequence of works. I'd say we're too late at this stage to object to the overall project. The works will impact us the most, so we should try and impact those, through the method statements, sequence of works and traffic management plans.

As you say we should also ask about any future faults on the line and how they will be dealt with. I'd have serious doubts that it would impact on the value of anyone's home, to be honest, but that's just personal opinion. The question should also be put to FCC and Eirgrid re:the replacement of the sewage network. There's no reason the 2 can't be done in tandem.

If there is going to be a meeting, try going for proactive instead of reactive..ie work with and influence what's coming, as opposed to giving out about what was approved last year sometime. That's not a criticism, it's a suggestion, hopefully helpful.

Kickstart

Thanks Dan. I opened the Fingal Independent today and I see Eirgrid are planning an information evening on thursday 17th June from 4pm to 9pm in Rush National School. I will pay them a visit!
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The Hill Billy

I split the original thread for a reason. Keep on topic. This thread for is for discussion of the Eirgrid topic only. Use the other thread for the Tidy Towns issue.

HB

Martron

http://www.eirgridprojects.com/projects/east-westinterconnector/buildingworksprogress/

some information . quite interesting.

seems like they are going to avoid main urban areas. but there will be some bother involved.

it will more than likely be a contraflow system. probably wont cause much trouble in the morning but will be a nightmare in the evening. i did a similar job in tipperary . we were restricted to times we could open the road. so i would imagine that fingal have similar clauses.

but i would also imagine this will all be at the meeting.

LeoB

dan_d wrote: »

I'm from Rush and went to the Information weekend Eirgrid had here last year (?).
I see the signs on the road. Can someone please explain to me in a rational manner (ie no smart comments, as this is a genuine question), what Rush people are supposed to be mad about. I understand the road works up the main street will be a gigantic pain in the a*%e, but beyond that I don't remember there being any other huge issues.

I am from Rush also and am furious at Eirgrid and there lack of consiideration for local people. They are screwing us left right and centre, with the aid of F.C.C. They are causing major disruption for a prolonged period of time and investing little or nothing in the community which has also been neglected by a shower of incompetant ***** in F.C.C. We are mad as this is the culmination of what appears to be continual neglect.

How this got through planning is beyond me. They can dig up the roads and are not obliged to reinstate them to there previous standard, now if I want to run a cable from 1 side of the road to the other I will be hammered by F.C.C for fee's and levies and made put the road back as it was. They (Eirgrid) will not assist in putting other cables underground. Its a sick joke. The €90,000 Fingal will get for Rush will be used to fix the roads AFTER Eirgrid and its the 2 fingers to the people again.

This is only the start of what is going to be a horrible time for Rush residents. And judging by comments made by one contributer last night there could be a lot of trouble ahead. Look at Rogerstown Estuary fenced off so they can weld pipes for a project in another town, and the flower beds at the entrance to Kenure woods moved to Skerries, because they would be easier to maintain. What stunned me was this was commonly know by more than 1 person. We are to be grateful for €3.7million on a Library thats fu**ing closed!!

I really hope the people of Rush rise up and make the council see how the people feel so let down. I could go a lot stronger but dont want H.B or Beasty banning me.

The Hill Billy

I understand that this Eirgrid issue may be an emotive matter for some, but please stay on-topic.

FCC moving flower beds has SFA to do with laying cables & traffic disruption.

HB

Wishbone Ash

LeoB wrote: »

I am from Rush also and am furious at Eirgrid and there lack of consiideration for local people. They are screwing us left right and centre, with the aid of F.C.C. They are causing major disruption for a prolonged period of time and investing little or nothing in the community which has also been neglected by a shower of incompetant ***** in F.C.C. We are mad as this is the culmination of what appears to be continual neglect.

How this got through planning is beyond me. They can dig up the roads and are not obliged to reinstate them to there previous standard, now if I want to run a cable from 1 side of the road to the other I will be hammered by F.C.C for fee's and levies and made put the road back as it was. They (Eirgrid) will not assist in putting other cables underground. Its a sick joke. The €90,000 Fingal will get for Rush will be used to fix the roads AFTER Eirgrid and its the 2 fingers to the people again.

This is only the start of what is going to be a horrible time for Rush residents. And judging by comments made by one contributer last night there could be a lot of trouble ahead. Look at Rogerstown Estuary fenced off so they can weld pipes for a project in another town, and the flower beds at the entrance to Kenure woods moved to Skerries, because they would be easier to maintain. What stunned me was this was commonly know by more than 1 person. We are to be grateful for €3.7million on a Library thats fu**ing closed!!

I really hope the people of Rush rise up and make the council see how the people feel so let down. I could go a lot stronger but dont want H.B or Beasty banning me.

LeoB - I think you have missed the point entirely. I have no doubt that Eirgrid will leave the roads in an perfect condition after them. That is the least of our worries as is the disruption that will be caused!

dan_d

LeoB wrote: »

I am from Rush also and am furious at Eirgrid and there lack of consiideration for local people. They are screwing us left right and centre, with the aid of F.C.C. They are causing major disruption for a prolonged period of time and investing little or nothing in the community which has also been neglected by a shower of incompetant ***** in F.C.C. We are mad as this is the culmination of what appears to be continual neglect.

How this got through planning is beyond me. They can dig up the roads and are not obliged to reinstate them to there previous standard, now if I want to run a cable from 1 side of the road to the other I will be hammered by F.C.C for fee's and levies and made put the road back as it was. They (Eirgrid) will not assist in putting other cables underground. Its a sick joke. The €90,000 Fingal will get for Rush will be used to fix the roads AFTER Eirgrid and its the 2 fingers to the people again.

This is only the start of what is going to be a horrible time for Rush residents. And judging by comments made by one contributer last night there could be a lot of trouble ahead. Look at Rogerstown Estuary fenced off so they can weld pipes for a project in another town, and the flower beds at the entrance to Kenure woods moved to Skerries, because they would be easier to maintain. What stunned me was this was commonly know by more than 1 person. We are to be grateful for €3.7million on a Library thats fu**ing closed!!

I really hope the people of Rush rise up and make the council see how the people feel so let down. I could go a lot stronger but dont want H.B or Beasty banning me.

You've lost me on the Rogerstown Estuary and Skerries bit, I'm not aware of what you're talking about.
I think I'll be attending the Eirgrid meeting on 17th June, thanks for the heads up!!
As long as they don't dig up the newly laid road from Rush to Lusk.....I get the impression that people are just annoyed about roadworks so. Fair enough argument, as I said before, Rush main street is a disaster anyway for trying to drive up and down it.

ToyotaCorolla

Dan D how has he lost you on the Rogerstown and Skerries bit , the man is using examples of how the FCC will f*ck Rush over at the first chance LEO B has been around rush long enough as have I to know that the FCC have Rush on the lowest priority possible the topic may be about Eirgrid but its just the latest in a long line of FCC condoned messes

The Hill Billy

ToyotaCorolla wrote: »

Dan D how has he lost you on the Rogerstown and Skerries bit , the man is using examples of how the FCC will f*ck Rush over at the first chance LEO B has been around rush long enough as have I to know that the FCC have Rush on the lowest priority possible the topic may be about Eirgrid but its just the latest in a long line of FCC condoned messes

While that my be so - THIS THREAD is about the Eirgrid issue.

If anyone wants a "Whinge about FCC screwing [insert area here] locals" - then start a new thread.

Get back on-topic.

HB

LeoB

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

LeoB - I think you have missed the point entirely. I have no doubt that Eirgrid will leave the roads in an perfect condition after them. That is the least of our worries as is the disruption that will be caused!

I wish I could but I dont share your confidence. I dont think I have missed the point. Eirgrid are bullying their way around and Fingal C.C. should be doing more to protect the interests of the people who keep them in Jobs. There are other issues like what type of current will be travelling through the cables and more importantly how safe is it, I believe there are only 1 or 2 studies on this and yet they can bring it through a residential area. There is little in the way of cooperation between the companies who provide utilities so when Eirgrid are finished we will probably have someone else dig up the road. Now if Eirgrid know another company is going to have to dig up the road do you really think they will reinstate it like you or I would have to? Dont think so

It is vital there is a big turnout at next meeting. I have never seen so many angry people in Rush which might not be a bad thing.

Dan_d The park area at Rogerstown Estuary frequented by kids flying kites, playing ball and jogging between Spout Rd and Boat park is fenced off so pipes can be welded and floated off to Portrane.

Will p.m you with details of oter point.

Mods apologies for going off topic earlier.

Wishbone Ash

LeoB wrote: »

There are other issues like what type of current will be travelling through the cables and more importantly how safe is it, I believe there are only 1 or 2 studies on this and yet they can bring it through a residential area

That is the main issue for many people and those who have concerns should have highlighted it.

Worriny about roads conditions, disruption etc. is playing into the hands of Eirgrid as it detracts from the 'elephant in the room'.

LeoB wrote:

do you really think they will reinstate it like you or I would have to? Dont think so

I think they will as it will keep many people happy and thereby ignoring the 'elephant'.

LeoB wrote:

I have never seen so many angry people in Rush which might not be a bad thing

Unfortunately their anger comes after planning was granted!

dan_d

Toyota Corolla, I grew up in this area. I didn't actually move out here recently.

I see a leaflet came in the door yesterday about the meeting. There were 3 points on it.....can't remember all of them, but can someone please explain to me in a rational way how metal plates over the cables would benefit anybody, or what they would achieve. If anything, lead plates might be helpful, but again, can someone explain the thinking there please.

To be honest guys, while I do see your points, I think you're about a year too late. Eirgrid had an information weekend about - what - 18 months ago (correct me if I'm wrong). Planning permission was granted last Sept. Why wasn't anything said then? I do agree with LeoB in that I don't think the roads will be reinstated in their original condition. Overall though, I think we're closing the door after the horse has bolted, and the best we can hope for is to negotiate with them over traffic management/sequence of works/method statements.

Martron

i have done work for the m50 in finglas where we moved 110kv cables.

the 1.2m deep is a esb standard for cable trenches. i dont think there is any radiation protection here as a 1.2m deep trench is used for most of their cables. it is there to protect the cable .

as for metal plates i dont think they will use these( as they will rust after a while under the ground)If anything the metal plates will be used to cover the trench temporarliy( ususally called road plates) they enable a car to cross an open trench.

the cable wil have armour on it. and i know the older cables like those in finglas had a lead lining on them.

i am not sure the radiation will be much of a problem to be honest. the cable will have protective housings. and also will be backfilled with dense stone which would be comparable to the density of concrete. with 1.2m of cover on the cables its a good insulation on the cables.

and as for water supplies the water will be running in the pipes and should not be "irradiated"

there is more prtection to us from the radiation when it is constructed this was as oppose to having the overhead cables

i am totally open to correction here. and i am only going on my opinion which has been formed with workin around some of these cables before and with the esb.

Martron

janey mack . i just reread my last post the typing is all over the place. woops.:rolleyes:

LeoB

Martron wrote: »

janey mack . i just reread my last post the typing is all over the place. woops.:rolleyes:

Dunt woriy ovver it:D

Good point being made.

Wishbone Ash. Good post. I agree we are to late getting angry. Why was there no objection? To be honest I dont know but maybe if the community council had more support from ALL sections of the community rather than just the same few. BTW, I am not on community council. For a long time the council were ploughing a lone furrow and to many of us didnt support them or get involved.

Yes maybe we are missing the elephant but I only put that comment in previous post as it was mentioned to me the other night after training.

meolwan

I have come to this topic rather late but some points as to the small amount I have heard about the project and some monies from Eirgird that are set aside for the comnunity it was on some flyer that i saw in the house not sure of the amount but I think about 2% I can be corrected on this. So who will manage these monies with it be FCC from my experience it is the LA or at least they are involved in the allocating of it. But care should be taken that FCC do not try to hijack any community gain that is for Rush and surrounding areas. If we have to put up with these works as dan d said it is too late in the day to stop them unless we have another shell to sea conflict lets make sure any benifit is for Rush.

Sorry mod if I have gone offf topic.

Neil_Sedaka

As many will be aware, there's a protest organised for 7pm tonight at Rush National School.
If you have any issues with the Interconnector project, please show your support then.

Kickstart

meolwan wrote: »

I have come to this topic rather late but some points as to the small amount I have heard about the project and some monies from Eirgird that are set aside for the comnunity it was on some flyer that i saw in the house not sure of the amount but I think about 2% I can be corrected on this. So who will manage these monies with it be FCC from my experience it is the LA or at least they are involved in the allocating of it. But care should be taken that FCC do not try to hijack any community gain that is for Rush and surrounding areas. If we have to put up with these works as dan d said it is too late in the day to stop them unless we have another shell to sea conflict lets make sure any benifit is for Rush.


Meolwan, Eirgrid have 'recommended' that 90k of the 100k set aside should be allocated to Rush..no where near 2% unfortunately as the over project is costing in the region of €600 million. I believe though that 2% is what FCC were pushing Eirgrid for so that may be where that figure came from. Can only imagine what a few million could do to Rush. I think this is the point its all come to now...adequate compensation and thats adequate with a capital A!!! I totally agree with your concerns re allocation of any funds. As to another Shell to Sea....sure who know;).

meolwan

thanks for the reply be interested to hear how things are going with the protest is going kickstart

LeoB

I got to the meeting and am very little the wiser but from what I saw.......
Michael Kennedy FF and Clare Daly S.P were present.

There was a fairly big attendance and it was decided that 35 people at a time would be admitted to voice their concerns and ask questions. The community council negotiated with the Eirgrid people to come out and address the crowd and take questions, the relucantly agreed.

People were given the Microphone they asked their question and they got spin back from Eirgrid. The big issue raised was the proposed route and health and safety. The sound was not great so maybe someone else who was there can give a better report on what went on

The obvious route was up through Rogerstown estuary but as this is an S.A.C it was not possible, we were told. THE LIVES OF BIRDS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE LIVES OF HUMANS!!! There was a number of suggestions as to how get around this and a number of contradicitions in the Eirgrid approach and spin on this issue . Not the mention the money side of things....

The Health and Safety issue got a little messy but not out of hand, just a few people passing comments when people were trying to speak, The person from Eirgrid was in fairness a very polished performer. She answered al questions and I have never seen anyone as confident dealing with the stuff coming at her. The project manager was a real "clever" chap not for backing down and either was one of the crowd Mr C.

Mr C got a commitment from Michael Kennedy that "he as a local T.D would fight this issue for the voters present and represent the best interests of local people" (Jeasus and I thought that was his job) he agreed but would not guarentee a favourable outcome. I am unsure if the same point was put to Ms Daly.

Mr. Kennedy seemed to (attempt) to play the role of facilator while Ms Daly stood back a bit (some of her party collegues asked questions) but she made a point about an application (for a waylay?) due before F.C.C next Thursday. Mr Kennedy gave a commmitment after an excellent contribution from a speaker to raise the matter of the route with An Bord Pleannalla.

What I did glean from the meeting was this is not a signed deal. Eirgrid dont have a licence to open the road and a petition and objection is going to F.C.C on this matter.

So I would suggest people make an objection to road opening licence as soon as possible. Hopefully someone who heard more than me will put up a more accurate post if they feel mine is off the mark.

dan_d

That's a good bit more info LeoB, and makes sense to go for the road opening licence than the whole project, if people want to have an effect.

Health and safety - the concern seems to be the cables and their possible effects on people? Am I right? From the flyer that came in the door, that's the impression I get. Has anybody got the details of the trenches that the cables will be sunk in, the materials they will be surrounded with, and the depths they are buried to?

Having quite a lot of construction experience myself, I know cables are buried in the ground at specific depths, with specified amounts of material around them ie ESB ducts have to be in sand at a certain depth below the finished ground level, at 150mm centres apart and with warning tape laid over them, so any future digging in the area will find them easily. Personally I'd be a lot more worried if those cables were overhead, as the potential for health and safety problems in that case would be massive. To me it's not a big concern if they're underground.
But then that's just my opinion.

As kickstart says the other area to focus on should be compensation - not for individuals but for Rush as a town. Preferably to be managed by a town council, rather than Fingal CC, as they will hijack any funds like that.

On a side note I don't think it's right that Michael Kennedy and Clare Daly are involved in things like this, as it's just a vote spinner for them, but that's entirely involved with how our Governing system is set up, and has nothing to do with anything.

Martron

this is for low to medium voltage
http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/downloads/ESB_Duct_Laying_Standards.pdf
i think it explains it quite clearly but it does not show high voltage but eseentially the same but will have double marker tape and will be deeper. to about 1.2m from graund level to top of duct.

the 110kv cables i moved in finglas had 1.2m cover on them. this consisted of cable> 150mmducting sand> 50mm protection tile> a layer of lean mix concrete(this is dry concrete) > more marker tape and then the rest was made up with 804 which is a semi fine granular stone which can be compacted.

this is a code of practice and makes for interesting reading
http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/downloads/national_code_of_practice.pdf

these are esb standards and practices and i am sure eiurgrids will need to be similar to this

As for the way leaves i find it hard to believe that way leaves have not been sorted this close to the project. a way leave is essentially temporary permission to access land to install the like of cables and gas etc etc. some are temporary and some can be permanent and aquired by means of a compulsory purchase order. i would imagaine that if the way leaves are not yet confirmed tht would also indicate to me that the route is not yet confirmed.

the road opening license in my opinion also is just a formality.although this should be in place id they wish to start on the 28th
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Roads/PermitsLicensesCertificates/ ( to to road opening lisence . its just a form with lenght and calculations. they will need a few liscenses as they move through different areas. but as you can see its a simple form stating volumes and lenghts.)

Who issued the white leaflet that came in the door. there is no contact details on it? and also seems to have been issued by a very misinformed group. i am always wary of people and groups that cant put their names to these publications. seems they are causing a lot of trouble about radiation issues and shielding. ( which i was talking about with a friend of mine and we recj=kon that with the mobile phones and wireless internet in the house this radiation is probably nothing compared to it )

i would agree that the main issue is what does rush get out of it. Rush seems to be a little forgotten corner when it comes to this sort of thing.

if eirgrid gave rush compensation i would need to see a guarentee from fingal to say that rush will get the money and also a program of works of when and where it will be used.

eirgrid is not the only baddie here. ( although i dont think eirgrid is and i understand that a lot of people are int he "not in my back yard brigade")

ok rambling over i probably missed half of what i wanted to say but i hope this helped

LauraMc

An update on the Eirgrid Meeting with Rush Community Council can be viewed at http://www.rushcc.blogspot.com/

meolwan

Thanks for the update on last night LeoB & Dan D. Question for Laura Mc were the public reps invited by the CC to the meeting this morning with Eirgrid?? and if so what public reps were invited. My reason for this question is that they are quick enough to call at election time and then you dont see them unless it is someting that will get them press coverage. This is an issue that they all should have an interest in or is it that rush is not big enough to have that much effect at election time. As regards any community gain Dan D is right in that we should see a programe of works for this and that is were the local public reps should be serving as local they can request the details and suggest changes without all th red tape.

LeoB

The only ones I saw last night were Michael Kennedy and Clare Daly but was told this evening that Trevor Sargent was at the back and invited by a person to come up to the front. Dont know what he said but I believe he did say he was in favour of this project but would work with the C.C. to find a resouloution?

I was suprised there were not more public reps there. I have been know to be quite cynical about some of them but at least Kennedy, Daly and Sargent had the "balls" to show up in what was at times a heated debate/discussion.


I was told this evening Eirgrid had agreed to suspend work to let further negotiations take place. Well done to the people who took the time to put forward the case on behalf of the people of Rush.
Compliments to LauraMc for her articulate points last evening.

Corsendonk

Reading the posts here there seems to be a concern that it isnt a 100% safe for Eirgrid to bring there power line into Rush, what is ever safe? If we lived life like that we wouldn't leave bed and still have a risk of an accident in bed.

A relative of mine is a landowner on the purposed route and has had two highly satisfactory meetings with Eirgrid representatives. As in all these large projects its always a matter of stages of communication. The people directly involved were consulted first. Then the greater community at later dates. Some people seem to have got there nose disjointed as they were not consulted first.

Glad to see that some posters have started to read the Eirgrid proposals and I for one is extremely interested to see who handles the 2% monies. Rush people have a great history of working on the breakaway committee before they formalise the original one.

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

Reading the posts here there seems to be a concern that it isnt a 100% safe for Eirgrid to bring there power line into Rush, what is ever safe? If we lived life like that we wouldn't leave bed and still have a risk of an accident in bed.

A relative of mine is a landowner on the purposed route and has had two highly satisfactory meetings with Eirgrid representatives. As in all these large projects its always a matter of stages of communication. The people directly involved were consulted first. Then the greater community at later dates. Some people seem to have got there nose disjointed as they were not consulted first.

Glad to see that some posters have started to read the Eirgrid proposals and I for one is extremely interested to see who handles the 2% monies. Rush people have a great history of working on the breakaway committee before they formalise the original one.

Good luck to the landowners. I dont think anyone has a problem with them the problem is the way, and people are entitled to feel this way is that it was a little devious the way things were done by Eirgrid. Put up a little poster and we will take it from there. Very few knew of public meetings 2 years ago. I got no notice in my door as has been suggested by some

You mean the ones with a vested interest were dealth with first. I am as entitled as anyone to be consulted seeing as I live and work in the town. However communication was a huge problem for Eirgrid, we might agree on that bit. People are also entitled to have concerns about the cable

Thought Fingal C.C were handling the money? I have been away for a few weeks and have not caught up on the latest bits of news.

Perhaps you might like to explain your last sentence a little more and perhaps give some instances.
"Rush people have a great history of working on the breakaway committee before they formalise the original one"
One of the problems in Rush over the years has been not enough people (me included) got involved in community affairs but now thankfully this appears to be changing. There have been small factions (very small) who will never be happy but to make that statement is a bit unfair and inaccurate. There has been a community council A.G.M every year for as long as I can remember and if people were unhappy they could have gone along and voiced their opinion or objections.

If you are local you will be aware that Rush has been ignored for decades when it comes to works being carried out and its high time we got annoyed it just happens Eirgrid are in the middle. This project will go ahead I like some others just hope Rush gets a fair deal.

A little glance at Irish history will show we are famous for the breakaway but to single out Rush people is wrong.