Eirgrid in Rush - Mod Warning in Post #1

LeoB

quackduck wrote: »

From all I've followed on this post, its classic not it my back yard stuff! Scaremongering from the No campaign just for their own agenda. First it was compensation, then health was important, then traffic disruption and back to health- using whatever it takes to keep the public support.

Leaflets with no names summarises this campaign and any reasonable person will realise this and should not let themseleves be bulllied by a group of nimbys. I guess thats why their blog came down-lots of false claims there that cannot be backed up!

Resistance to such an important project for ireland won't get this country out of the mess we're in. How embarassing for us Irish.

I think all the No campaign should turn their electricity off and all their comforts, revert to living with candles- thats progress. Guess they don't think about how they get electricty today in this cold weather and who lives besides those lines!

For someone following the thread it took you long enough to put up a post.
Firstly it does not go by front door
I dont think I have been bullied by anyone. If I have been bullied its beeen by EirGrid. If your worried about leaflets with no names why dont you use your real name to post?
The blog came down as a result of a court order.
Nothing embarrasing has happened at all. Oh except for the fact we have people like Eamon Ryan turning his back on people by firstly getting an Independent review of health and then going and signing off before its complete. Now its embarrasing to have someone like him represent us. Would we be embarrased if we were French? I think not!!! People want to stage a peaceful protest, fair play to them.

Keep in mind No pertson I spoke to was or is against EirGrid or this project the people opposed the route.

jpdorian

I can't believe it's true!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The "No" protestors had a little sympathy from me until I heard they carried a childs white coffin up and down the street for reporters. NOW I HOPE THE F**KIN CABLE STARTS PUMPING POWER BLOWS UP IN UR FACE, YOU SIK, INSENSITIVE and HORRIBLE PEOPLE who did this. think about the people who had to carry that white box for real and YOU SICK PEOPLE did it for the cameras . Burn in hell.

undermeoxter

jpdorian wrote: »

I can't believe it's true!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The "No" protestors had a little sympathy from me until I heard they carried a childs white coffin up and down the street for reporters. NOW I HOPE THE F**KIN CABLE STARTS PUMPING POWER BLOWS UP IN UR FACE, YOU SIK, INSENSITIVE and HORRIBLE PEOPLE who did this. think about the people who had to carry that white box for real and YOU SICK PEOPLE did it for the cameras . Burn in hell.

Oh my good God! That's disgusting! I can't believe they could be so... so... tasteless!
I still recall the horrible moment I saw my friends as they cradled their son's white coffin at his funeral years ago. It's one of the most heart-wrenching things to see - for real!

I'm absolutely aghast!

Yet the discussion re health risks is verbotten here so I really throw my hands up in despair. Head down and hope this all passes over quickly.
It's f***king electricity folks. Walking around the back-roads of this town would do you a worse injury!

The Hill Billy

jpdorian - banned.

Calm down people. For those new to this thread and boards.ie - If you don't like the rules and are unwilling to abide by them, please don't post here.

Thanks,

HB

Beasty

To avoid any misunderstandings on my recent post concerning health issues. These have been debated in the thread for several months, and neither side has given any indication of shifting their stance. Given the problems caused by having a number of posters with diametrically opposed views on this aspect of topic, I see no point in debating it further here, as this is likely to result in further action against some posters.

The thread was re-opened because of further developments on the issue – namely the commencement of works, and resultant protests, not to resurrect the points that resulted in the thread being closed in the first place.

Anyone else questioning mod actions in-thread will be banned without further warning

Beasty

LeoB

Due back in Court Monday morning. I think this must be make or break time for both sides especially the Re route campaign.

Didnt hear about the white coffin. When did this happen? Not in very good taste at all.

Ichiban

Yet the discussion re health risks is verbotten

Per the Mods's post - we are allowed discuss this providing it is some new information. After all it would be difficult to discuss the protest if we can't discuss what the protest is about.

Coffin stunt very bad taste if true, but unfortunately in keeping with the campaign so far if seeking to shock to drum up support

clay j

Ichiban wrote: »

Yet the discussion re health risks is verbotten

Per the Mods's post - we are allowed discuss this providing it is some new information. After all it would be difficult to discuss the protest if we can't discuss what the protest is about.

Coffin stunt very bad taste if true, but unfortunately in keeping with the campaign so far if seeking to shock to drum up support

From what I have seen and heard there has generally been a feisty approach to this campaign but this is the first time anything sinister has been done. I will agree with you it is in bad taste

undermeoxter

Beasty wrote: »

To avoid any misunderstandings on my recent post concerning health issues. These have been debated in the thread for several months, and neither side has given any indication of shifting their stance. Given the problems caused by having a number of posters with diametrically opposed views on this aspect of topic, I see no point in debating it further here, as this is likely to result in further action against some posters.

The thread was re-opened because of further developments on the issue – namely the commencement of works, and resultant protests, not to resurrect the points that resulted in the thread being closed in the first place.

Anyone else questioning mod actions in-thread will be banned without further warning

Beasty

I'm sorry, I think it was my fault. When I came on the thread I asked four questions but only the one regarding the health-risk argument was picked up on - by those against the current route, mind you. I didn't mean to open a can of worms.
For what it's worth, I've answered all of my questions in the meantime:

1. The works to the lighting poles are being carried out by a Contractor for ESB. The ESB suprevisor for the job has been asked to inspect them and remind them regarding the rigours of their Traffic Management Plans. (If I may note, EirGrid's Traffic Management appears to be exemplary - maybe something to do with having so many Guards around while you work!)
2. The irony of the increased health & safety risk to kids around the school because of the volume of protestors cars being parked there at school-opening time is just something I'm going to have to live with for now, I guess.
3. I take it the over-head cables are not being brought underground. In my opinion, if RCC were competant negotiators this is what they would have focussed on.
4. I've reached the conclusion - and appear to share it with many others here, including the mods - that nothing anyone says re the health risks will cause a change of mind by those opposed to the cable.

This thread discussion seems somewhat futile, in the light of this; I see little point in my continuing. I just have to get on with trying to negotiate my way around the town; avoidng the disruption being caused by the protests.:(

brian ireland

Ichiban wrote: »

Yet the discussion re health risks is verbotten

Kindergarden! No Adult conversation or disagreements here!!

I have had my run Ins with a few posters on boards but it's only my opinion verse theres. Most times we make up.
Sometimes I am wrong and sometimes I am right.
As i said in this post."my mind has been changed before" I am open to all views and will adjust if someone can prove my point is not right.
Simples.
Its Crazy you can't post without it being approved by a higher source.
I will move on before i gat banned for speaking out.

Ichiban

Temperature down by 8 degrees since Eirgrid started digging holes around Rush. Coincidence? - I think not.

Time to get Eamonn Ryan to commission another report: this time on Eirgrids neferious plan to promote another little ice age.

Im off to make a placard

undermeoxter

Ichiban wrote: »

Yet the discussion re health risks is verbotten

Per the Mods's post - we are allowed discuss this providing it is some new information.

Can it be 1960's new? Like Underground HVDC technology?

Neil_Sedaka

LeoB wrote: »

Didnt hear about the white coffin. When did this happen? Not in very good taste at all.

I Totally agree, very bad taste indeed

TangyZizzle

The white coffin is the sickest and lowest thing they could do. I watched the video of the 'riot'. I thought it was hilarious, the aul biddy scare mongering brigade getting knocked about, fair play to the Gards.

Ill be down there first thing tomorrow morning at 7am to cheer them on, once again because after all, its only a matter of time before this descends into chaos and petrol bombs begin to appear.

By the way, when this pipe comes up onto the main street, you'd want to think twice about blocking up the roads.. there's angry people out there trying to get to work and college..

Ichiban

There was a post talking about going to the courts this morning. Any one have any updates on that?

Anyone know how did the rally at 3pm at the Library go?

The Hill Billy

There was no post here about going to the courts. Some other site/forum maybe?

Beasty

LeoB wrote: »

Due back in Court Monday morning. I think this must be make or break time for both sides especially the Re route campaign.

It was LeoB's post on Saturday that referred to this

Corsendonk

That was posted on the Rush Needs You facebook page, no update posted yet.

Corsendonk

FYI Minister Ryan reply is interesting as it contains over-run costs.

I wonder now if Deputy Reilly is as concerned for the welfare of the ladies disturbed in their gardens with injunctions after their cheap childs coffin publicity stunt at the weekend? I have yet to see him issue a press release to condemn it do.

As pointed out before at the end of the day the consumer will pay for these peoples 5 minutes of fame as protestors. Also are the residents of Lusk not as important to Deputy Reilly? If there is a risk to the Rush residents from the cable shouldn't he be defending the people of the Lusk townlands that the cable passes through or does the risk not exist on that part of the cable? Of course I could be cynical and say they don't have 3000 votes for him in the next election.

3000 which was a rough estimate by the No Campaign and I might add a large % were kids judging by photos of the march, is only 33% of the towns population and not a majority. Hopefully Enda won't let him near a financial brief in the new government.

Perhaps if the RCC in all their great wisdom had decided to remain neutral at the start and organised information nights for and against the Interconnector with a ballot of the towns voting age population using the election register they would have had a democratic mandate from the people of Rush. But no thats just asking for too much common sense, they went ahead with organising a No Campaign while still talking about mediating between the No Campaign Group and Eirgrid. How can you mediate between two sides when you are one of the sides in the argument? Where did these people learn their negotiating skills from SinnFein/IRA?


Dail Question 25 November

Deputy James Reilly: I raise this matter on the Adjournment because it is of grave concern to the people of Rush, where 3,000 people, from a population of 9,000 marched to show their concern. I thank the Minister for coming to the House to address this important issue.

I am fully supportive of the interconnector. It is a hugely important part of the future infrastructure of the country and an integral part of our strategy to encourage renewable energy and eventually to make Ireland an exporter of electricity. In the interim it will be important in securing electricity supply, should we not be in a position to create it ourselves. However, I raise a number of issues with regard to the project.

Only 43 people attended the original planning meeting because the people of Rush were not then aware of the project. Let us compare that figure with the 3,000 who marched. Meetings were held between EirGrid and the community group and an independent expert, who would be agreed by the community and EirGrid, was promised. Instead of this, EirGrid appointed a man who, while of some international repute, was not agreed by the community. Besides, within his report there is no mention of what is called the rubbish electricity which causes problems and is associated with a DC cable. Furthermore, a KEMA report was to be agreed, and that is ongoing. No work was to start until the KEMA report was complete but EirGrid have gone ahead with work, opening the road yesterday morning.

This morning, there were scuffles with gardaí. These peaceful people are the solid citizens of Rush. Many of them are rate payers. Business people and families are concerned about the disruption and the effect of this project on their town. There may be questions about the safety of the cable itself. There are health and safety issues. I am not an expert and do not profess to say if it is safe or not, but I know the people have grave concerns. While one cannot say anything is fully affected, if it is rerouted out of the town it will be fully safe because it will no longer be going up the street.

The manner in which the people of Rush have been treated is scandalous. Women were approached late last night in their own gardens by men pointing torches in their eyes to serve injunctions on them. Why did EirGrid not give notice that injunctions were to be served instead of behaving in this heavy-handed intimidatory fashion? It is unacceptable.

The Meath county manager refused to allow EirGrid to lay a cable through the main street of Ratoath and it was rerouted around the town. Fingal County Council was to have voted on the matter but it was taken off the agenda and permission was got by some other means. Some councillors had promised to vote against it.

There are alternative routes. The lack of good faith shown by EirGrid in not appointing an agreed health expert, in failing to wait for the KEMA safety report and, now, in serving injunctions late at night is abhorrent to me. I ask the Minister to reroute this cable partially out of Rush. This would not be a huge job. There are existing alternatives, and I do not refer to the estuary. There are alternatives north of Rush which can be used.

The people of Rush are extremely upset. An unsafe stand-off is being created there. I appealed to everyone to keep calm but I appeal to the Minister, within whose gift this is, to order this to be rerouted.

I know the Minister will tell us this project is funded from Europe. That is fine. Can he tell us when that funding must be drawn down? When I asked him on a previous occasion he could not tell me if it would be in January or December 2012, or if it would be 2012 at all. The cost of the cable, which is difficult to ascertain, is not an issue. The cable will be required, whatever route is taken.

I appeal, on behalf of the people of Rush, to have their voice heard. I never thought I would see the day, as a private citizen or as a public representative, when the will of one third of a population, who are so concerned they take to the streets about an issue, is completely ignored by their local authority and the Minister in charge. Deputies on the Government side have appealed to the Minister to take action. I fail to understand why he cannot. Ultimately, rerouting will be the cheaper solution.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I am pleased to be here to respond to this matter and to give a perspective on a critical project and one that is sensitive to the local community. The Government, in turn, is sensitive to that, as are all public representatives, who have held discussions, and with the members of the community council, who have had discussions with me regarding the project.

The interconnector is of critical national infrastructural importance. It will give us greater security of electricity and lower prices. It is a critical project and it is in the national interest that it be developed.

EirGrid, the State owned independent transmission system company is building the interconnector. It went through the planning process in September 2009, getting full permission from An Bord Pleanála under the Strategic Infrastructure Act. My Department has no direct role in the planning process. Formal approval followed a comprehensive assessment process, including an oral hearing at which stakeholders, including Rush Community Council, were present. I believe EirGrid has engaged extensively with communities along the route, including the local community and public representatives.

The work starting currently is to put in the piping but not the cable. I understand that will not start until mid-2011. The ducting must go in now because other infrastructural works are planned by Fingal County Council for 2011. The ducting is being combined with other local council works.

During the planning process, including the oral hearing, the matter of health and safety, and the further concerns of the community council, were covered. We commissioned Dr. van Rongen, who is recognised as an international expert. He is a member of the Netherlands Government health council and of the advisory committee of the World Health Organisation international EMF project. I was pleased to be able to commission him to undertake a review. That report is available on my Department’s website, which I know the Deputy has seen.

Further to that, work is ongoing between Rush Community Council and EirGrid on the separate issue of the operational safety of the project. KEMA consultants are undertaking a report on that, by mutual agreement.

The planning process has been gone through and time is tight on this very significant €600 million project. Funding is provided by a very competitive arrangement entered into by EirGrid - with Government approval - with the European Investment Bank and a number of major commercial banks. Funding of €110 million is also being provided by the European Energy Programme for Recovery to assist the project. The key determinants for the award of funding by the EU Commission were the demonstrable state of readiness of the project and the strategic importance of the interconnector in its own right.

Having got planning permission, EirGrid was able to place contracts with ABB, the manufacturers of the cable. As Deputy Reilly intimated, getting the cable is a very difficult process. There is huge demand, huge back orders and huge timeline constraints. The securing of planning permission was a condition precedent to the agreement and drawdown of commercial bank and EIB funding. If we were to re-route, an entirely new planning application would be required, which would take approximately two years to process without any guarantee of success. This would seriously jeopardise the funding arrangements in place, with real cost implications for Irish electricity consumers. I understand the European Investment Bank and the European Commission are monitoring the progress of the project. The prospect of a delay would be received very negatively by those two institutions. A delay would risk funding and damage the reputation of the country in terms of winning planning permission, given that one organises contract arrangements on the back of such permission. If the project were not completed, it would call into question Ireland’s ability to proceed with similar projects.

I understand that if the proposed works were delayed beyond November, the cost of the delay would amount to €12 million immediately, with knock-on costs accruing thereafter. I am told EirGrid estimates that every day’s delay would add approximately €100,000 to the cost of the project. This would be added directly to electricity consumers’ bills. Any delay in getting under way with the works would affect other scheduled project works and other infrastructure projects. It would have a real effect on the ability of the State to deliver a project of considerable importance and with considerable budget implications.

Deputy James Reilly: I note the phrase “I am told”. Does the Minister share my cynicism?

Deputy Eamon Ryan: The companies operating are publicly owned companies acting in the public interest and delivering a project that we all regard as beneficial. I understand the concerns of the local community and its desire for an alternative approach. In this instance, however, bearing in mind that planning permission has been granted, some of the fundamental concerns over health effects can be answered by the analysis contained in Dr. van Rongen’s report. We could arrange for Dr. van Rongen to answer people’s questions in this regard. I said this to the Deputies previously.

If we were to delay the project at this stage, it would have considerable knock-on consequences. I encourage all sides, including EirGrid and the community, to allow for the completion of the safety project. We can raise further questions on safety in light of Dr. van Rongen’s analysis. He seems to be a man of real international repute. It is a matter of trying to minimise understandable concern in the community, which is not in anyone’s interest. I ask the local Deputies and Senators to do whatever they can in this regard but I cannot re-route an infrastructure project that is urgent for the State. It would have considerable financial implications

---

Deputy James Reilly: Would that be the case even if the KEMA report indicated the Minister should do so?

Deputy Eamon Ryan: Construction must proceed now for fear of our losing serious money immediately

Corsendonk

Interesting documentary on RTE lastnight entitled

"Green Gold? In Search of Ireland's Green Economy".
I recommend watching the entire documentary but they talk about the grid and the interconnector 41.20mins in

Highlights
Denmark has decided to bury cables due to possible wind damage as Denmark is one of the Windiest countries in Europe, Ireland decided to go mainly with pylons.

Protestors in the North East against the North-South interconnector want the pylon cables buried as they believe buried cables are safer and less visual impact.

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1086060

Spidermany

Has it been confirmed that a child's coffin was used for the demonstration, or are we just taking unsubstantiated rumour as being gospel.

I've been demonstrating on a number of occasions, and the only place I've heard mention of the coffin is on this forum.

Under no circumstances would I be involved in a demonstration where this type of despicable behaviour was considered acceptable.

Neil_Sedaka

Would like to hear confirmation on this too, anyone?

Corsendonk

jack presley wrote: »

Or as Father Ted once said "Down with this sort of thing".

I've been following this thread for a while now but by far the funniest thing written so far was the reference to Claire Daly's site where she TWICE uses a island nation in the Pacific Ocean as the unit for measuring magnetic fields! And she 's going to be running for election?

She still has it up on her website! Maybe someone should tell her about it when she comes around looking for votes:D

Spidermany

Does your lack of response Corsendok mean that you are going to ignore our request that you substantiate the rumour you are repeating?

undermeoxter

Spidermany wrote: »

Does your lack of response Corsendok mean that you are going to ignore our request that you substantiate the rumour you are repeating?

Hang on! you got the wrong dude, dude!
If you look back, you'll find it was jpdorian who initially posted about the coffin stunt. Corsendonk not involved in the ensuing discussion.

Corsendonk

Spidermany wrote: »

Does your lack of response Corsendok mean that you are going to ignore our request that you substantiate the rumour you are repeating?

Ohh sorry I didn't know you directed your post at me specifically and that it was a request with a timelimit. What did your last slave die of?:rolleyes:

I wasn't the first poster to raise this if you read the thread further than the last page of posts and this has already been kindly pointed out to you by another poster here.

You could pm the poster as I think they may be suspended from posting in the forum but also knowing the Mods here I can't see the lads leaving that post up if there wasn't evidence.

No need to apologise, your only new here so you may just have a problem navigating the thread pages.

Corsendonk

Beasty

Corsendonk wrote: »

but also knowing the Mods here I can't see the lads leaving that post up if there wasn't evidence.

TBH, I have no idea if there is any evidence. Until today's posts no-one had challenged it - it's not our job to check the facts, although we will review something if it is brought to our attention.

In light of this, until someone comes on here indicating what evidence is available to support this allegation, posters can assume it is unsubstantiated.

@Spidermany - if you do have a problem with something someone had posted, press the report post button, and let the mods deal with it - do not challenge it in-thread

Thanks

Beasty

LeoB

ITS A DONE DEAL at this stage

Interesting listening to an Ex E.S.B worker on the radio today stating we had the second cheapest Electricity in Europe until the regulator got involved and now we are one of the dearest. So no matter whatEamon Ryan says about overruns he forgot to mention this in a few spiels I have heard him on and oh and that they are taking the more expensive route and a slower route!!
Finally before I unsubscribe from this thread. They are moving very slow on the channel Rd, nowhere near 30 foot a day.

Great thread. Well done to all contributors and mods.

jack presley

LeoB wrote: »

They are moving very slow on the channel Rd, nowhere near 30 foot a day.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the conditions aren't exactly ideal at the moment.

Spidermany

Corsendonk - I didn't say you started the rumour I merely asked all those repeating it had it been substantiated. As you had repeated it I was, incorrectly obviously, anticipating a response.

In future I will simply report those whose posts appear to be inaccurate.