Eirgrid in Rush - Mod Warning in Post #1

dan_d

Not a thing.

But I notice that they have taken over an office on the skerries road, just at the junction at Xtravision in Rush. Can't remember the name of what it used to be - used to do hair braids and stuff. Or maybe it's beside a place that does hair braids??? Anyway, there's Eirgrid posters on the walls in there, and a few desks.

LeoB

Well at least they will see the traffic chaos there can be in Rush as the photo they supplied to An Bord Pleannala was of a quiet spot on the Channel Rd.

That shop was Butam Net cafe (where kids could surf the web unsupervised)

LeoB

Just heard Eirgrid have been forced to stop their work in Rogerstown due to birds nesting. Will try and get details over next day or two.

LeoB

WOW.

Eirgrid doing a survey on Main St in Rush today.

They would hardly be so devious as to do a traffic survey during midterm when kids are off school and traffic is down quite considerably.

Martron

had they got instruments?

From an engineering point of view if i was the site engineer doing the work i would used this opporunity to survey the road at low traffic levels. beats doing it on a sunday.

but if its atraffic survey that is mental. and surely who ever is accepting this survey should take that into account.

LeoB

Dont know the details of survey just got an email about it.

These figures will be accepted ok just like the last ones when they surveyed the busy Lower Channel Rd and called it the main road. Some lazy person in some office accepted thoes figures without properly investigating them.

Martron

that it. people need to question the facts a little more.

statistics can be used to prove anything. its the interpretation of them that makes the difference

Corsendonk

FYI


Eirgrid Website

Work adjacent to Estuary
Work has now been completed for this season in the land adjacent to Rogerstown Estuary. This was a condition of An Bord Pleanala's planning permission for the East West Interconnector: Part of Condition 4: Construction works in relation to the proposed development shall not take place in the following places and instances:
(a) In the vicinity of Rogerstown estuary within the bird over-wintering season.

Eirgrid Answers to Questions raised about the route Rush Oct 5th 2010

http://www.eirgridprojects.com/media/Answers%20issued%20to%20Rush%20Community%20Council%205th%20Oct%202010.pdf


Some good google maps images of the UK-French interconnector route and more information on why they went with the north beach route.

eddiem74

Have Eirgrid opened an information office at the Skerries corner in Rush?

LeoB

eddiem74 wrote: »

Have Eirgrid opened an information office at the Skerries corner in Rush?

Sort of!!!!

Or as I heard it called today "spin bin"

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

FYI

Some good google maps images of the UK-French interconnector route and more information on why they went with the north beach route.

They are being a bit selective. They also provided information on a site in Germany (?) which was so inaccurate. They stated it was in the middle of a heavily populated town when it was actually on the edge of a small village.

Corsendonk

LeoB wrote: »

They are being a bit selective. They also provided information on a site in Germany (?) which was so inaccurate. They stated it was in the middle of a heavily populated town when it was actually on the edge of a small village.

Can you post up the link to this german route? Sure someone in the No campaign has it for hard information.

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

Can you post up the link to this german route? Sure someone in the No campaign has it for hard information.

Sorry Corsendonk, I have asked for that information and some other stuff a few times but cant get my hands on it. It was part of the presentation the Re Route campaign had at the public meeting in St. Josephs school. If I can get it in the next day or two I will certainly post it here.

I know one or two of the re route campaign were reluctant to get involved in an on-line debate but I felt they were honest enough at their meeting is so far as they put up both eirgrid figures and their own and left it for people to decide. They seemed to me have little difficulty in dis creditingt the Eirgrid spin.

Carawaystick

the Co. Co now say the laying of the interconnector from Blakes Cross to Ballyboughil will take 3 months rather than the 1 month budgeted for due to unspecified unforeseen circumstances....

eddiem74

Not sure if people seen The Frontline on RTE last night (November 1st).

REPLAY: http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1083867

Here's a summary of what the show was about:

---

Campaigners v companies

Some of the most passionate arguments in Ireland in recent years have been about local communities objecting to incinerators, pylons, wind farms or roads.

These campaigns have often been successful in delaying or scuppering a project that many people feel will damage their health or their environment. But business groups and others say we live in a "culture of objection" where it's nearly impossible to get anything done.

Tonight we'll bring the two sides together - campaigners against incinerators and pylons will put their case directly to the companies involved, Covanta and Eirgrid, and we'll deal with wind farms and roads too.

---

The 'No to Erigrid Route' in Rush got a brief mention by some guy from the Chamber of Commerce (not sure from which one?), who was trying to compare the North East Pylon Pressure Campaign group who want their cables underground, to Rush's objections, where he tried to spin it, that we didn't want the cable underground. He was trying to state, as a nation we need to make up our minds as we don't want cables above or below ground it seems. Pat cut him off in fairness, and said from what he knew of Rush it was an issue with the route, not an objection to it being underground.

Corsendonk

LeoB wrote: »

Sorry Corsendonk, I have asked for that information and some other stuff a few times but cant get my hands on it. It was part of the presentation the Re Route campaign had at the public meeting in St. Josephs school. If I can get it in the next day or two I will certainly post it here.

I know one or two of the re route campaign were reluctant to get involved in an on-line debate but I felt they were honest enough at their meeting is so far as they put up both eirgrid figures and their own and left it for people to decide. They seemed to me have little difficulty in dis creditingt the Eirgrid spin.

Thanks, no problem if you can't get , I fully understand if they don't want people further examining evidence for the "No Campaign". If it was in a powerpoint presentation it must be true:D but I always like to see the details as most other people do too. But if there afraid that people might find holes in there argument as those that went to the trouble of reading the science paper evidence did. It does smack a little "don't worry your little head we know whats best for you" and really poor communication unless your in the "circle" with these people. But even you yourself seem to be finding it increasely difficult to get hard details from them. If there information is kosher whats the harm having a debate over it? We arn't North Korea are we were you can't question the partyline?

At least you get some communication from them, I haven't heard anything from the "No Campaign" since there protest. The Rush Community Blog that I pointed out had some information on Eirgrid in the past again has stagnated and not been updated since Sept 13th. I might add that the same person who writes it is Chairperson for the Community Council and the "No Campaign" so there shouldn't be an issue with access to information about both groups continued activities. To quote her reason for the said blog "I have setup this blog to keep the Rush Community up to date my activities and those of the Rush Community Council in general" It does reflects badly on there activities that it appears nothing has happened since early september! Poor communication again and I might add that journalists would use resources like this as background information. I expect like last time a sudden whirlwind of articles to be posted rather than a constant stream of communication weekly that it should be.

And I know you know more has happened with Rush CC and the "No Campaign" LeoB since Sept but your very close to the "circle" of communication due to your activities in the community while the vast majority of the residents are not. To do you justice you do on here try to do your best for communication of the "No Campaign" argument but are often hamstrung by there reluctance to supply you with hard facts to back up your argument. I can't help thinking that poor communication serves to keep the fear level up among residents and to quote Edmund Burke that you have been know to quote "No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear".

Wishbone Ash

I see that the Re-Route campaign have been putting flyers under car windscreen wipers. I though that was made illegal a few years back?

sashasdad

Spotted a few heads from Eirgrid along Kilbush lane and the Skerries road earlier, talking about a 'stop/go' system. Looks like the roads are going to be dug up fairly soon.

Corsendonk

sashasdad wrote: »

Spotted a few heads from Eirgrid along Kilbush lane and the Skerries road earlier, talking about a 'stop/go' system. Looks like the roads are going to be dug up fairly soon.

Monday 15th November. Its on the Rush Needs You facebook page, there looking for people to text them to arrange protest groups. I must sign up for a facebook page sometime.....nah my life is just fine without.

fayer

Just what I want, protesters outside my estate on top of civil works. I live here, right on top of the big bad cable, leave them alone to work and get the disruption over with.

Corsendonk

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I see that the Re-Route campaign have been putting flyers under car windscreen wipers. I though that was made illegal a few years back?

One of the guys in the legal forum pointed this out.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0012/print.html#sec19
LITTER POLLUTION ACT, 1997

Section 19

(2) A person shall not place advertising material on a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place without the prior consent of the person who owns, or is in charge of, the vehicle.

But it goes on further to say

(

7) A prosecution shall not be brought in a case in which an offence under this section is alleged to have been committed in relation to an advertisement if—

(a) the advertisement is exempted development within the meaning of the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1963, or is a notice displayed or erected in pursuance of a requirement by or under any enactment, or

(b) the advertisement—

(i) advertises a public meeting, other than an auction, or

(ii) relates to a presidential election within the meaning of the Presidential Elections Act, 1993, a general election or a bye-election, within the meaning, in each case, of the Electoral Act, 1992, a local election within the meaning of the Local Government Act, 1994, a referendum, within the meaning of the Referendum Act, 1994, or an election of representatives to the Assembly of the European Communities,

unless the advertisement has been in position for 7 days or longer after the day specified in the advertisement for the meeting or the latest day upon which the poll was taken for the election, bye-election or referendum concerned.

So if the flyer you got advertises the next No meeting they could get away with putting flyers on your car. Nice to see the politicians have exempted themselves too:rolleyes:

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

Thanks, no problem if you can't get , I fully understand if they don't want people further examining evidence for the "No Campaign". If it was in a powerpoint presentation it must be true:D but I always like to see the details as most other people do too. But if there afraid that people might find holes in there argument as those that went to the trouble of reading the science paper evidence did. It does smack a little "don't worry your little head we know whats best for you" and really poor communication unless your in the "circle" with these people. But even you yourself seem to be finding it increasely difficult to get hard details from them. If there information is kosher whats the harm having a debate over it? We arn't North Korea are we were you can't question the partyline?

At least you get some communication from them, I haven't heard anything from the "No Campaign" since there protest. The Rush Community Blog that I pointed out had some information on Eirgrid in the past again has stagnated and not been updated since Sept 13th. I might add that the same person who writes it is Chairperson for the Community Council and the "No Campaign" so there shouldn't be an issue with access to information about both groups continued activities. To quote her reason for the said blog "I have setup this blog to keep the Rush Community up to date my activities and those of the Rush Community Council in general" It does reflects badly on there activities that it appears nothing has happened since early september! Poor communication again and I might add that journalists would use resources like this as background information. I expect like last time a sudden whirlwind of articles to be posted rather than a constant stream of communication weekly that it should be.

And I know you know more has happened with Rush CC and the "No Campaign" LeoB since Sept but your very close to the "circle" of communication due to your activities in the community while the vast majority of the residents are not. To do you justice you do on here try to do your best for communication of the "No Campaign" argument but are often hamstrung by there reluctance to supply you with hard facts to back up your argument. I can't help thinking that poor communication serves to keep the fear level up among residents and to quote Edmund Burke that you have been know to quote "No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear".

Lets be fair now The "Re route Eirgrid Campaign" did have a public meeting which everyone was entitled to go to. They answered a number of questions from the floor on the night so I dont think they are trying to be secretive. I asked for information a few times as to be honest I was lost after a while with "micro this and micro that" but I picked up to make a judgment that I felt we were being shafted by Eirgrid, and An Bord Pleannala. What I heard just didnt add up, maybe it was spin from the campaign but Eirgid were at misleading with their planning submission.

Ok I am slightly hamstrung with not being able to get the information I asked for But let me be clear, I AM NOT A "PAID" UP MEMBER OF THE NO CAMPAIGN. I supplied a few photos to newspapers and simply didnt like the way Eirgrid went about their business. I was involved coaching with one of the "Re-route" people but I have stopped coaching since September. I am certainly not in any "circle".

Sorry to disappoint you but I dont know anymore than I hear on my daily travels. I have only spoke to the chairperson to compliment her on the life that has been breathed into Rush. I am on NO local committees in any club (I am helping with Library Camera Group) but I do wish I knew a little more of what is happening. I dont go on to that Rush C.C. blog but have no issue with the chairperson either, in fact I think she has injected some vibrancy into the local community and my main wish would be out of all this Rush can rise up and regain that strong community feeling which I feel had been sadly lacking for a few years now. Some would say because some people stayed on to long on various committees I would say we just we needed a kick in B***s and we got it from Eirgrid and it has woken us up. I hope the people who are involved in the "Re Route Eirgrid" campaign dont go away when the campaign is over.

I think we have agreed on many occasions poor communications is the biggest problem in Rush, and a little begrudgrary as well.

Edmund Burke should be on the leaving cert paper

Corsendonk

Updates galore on the Rush Community Blog.

http://rushcc.blogspot.com/

To Quote myself

I expect like last time a sudden whirlwind of articles to be posted rather than a constant stream of communication weekly that it should be.

The Eirgrid 10 things you need know makes interesting reading especially as I don't see a link to the World Health Organisation who we heard so much about.


Extract Rush Community Council Blog

Donabate Community Council has written to An Board Pleanala supporting Eirgrid's decision not to use Rogerstown Estuary. The Rush Community Council previously met with members of Donabate Community Council to let them know about our reasons/concerns for rerouting Eirgrid away from our town centre

Perhaps a bit off topic but wouldn't it make sense to put up a post telling us abit about each member of Rush Community Council, what there responsible for and what issues they deal with, contact details etc. So if I say live in St Catherines and have an issue with dog fouling do I have a representative that covers the area or one member of the council deals with dog fouling and so on. More efficient way of dealing with day to day problems.

Beasty

Corsendonk wrote: »

Perhaps a bit off topic but wouldn't it make sense to put up a post telling us abit about each member of Rush Community Council, what there responsible for and what issues they deal with, contact details etc. So if I say live in St Catherines and have an issue with dog fouling do I have a representative that covers the area or one member of the council deals with dog fouling and so on. More efficient way of dealing with day to day problems.

If someone wants to do this, I would suggest posting it in the Links and Resources thread

Martron

read part of the 10 things you need to know. usual propaganda.

lots of writing but not a lot of full information.

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

The Eirgrid 10 things you need know makes interesting reading especially as I don't see a link to the World Health Organisation who we heard so much about.


Perhaps a bit off topic but wouldn't it make sense to put up a post telling us abit about each member of Rush Community Council, what there responsible for and what issues they deal with, contact details etc. So if I say live in St Catherines and have an issue with dog fouling do I have a representative that covers the area or one member of the council deals with dog fouling and so on. More efficient way of dealing with day to day problems.

This is that dreaded and mis used underused word "communications" again.

It seems only logical and I remember suggesting it before that each area should have a delegate on the community council with only the executive elected at the A.G.M. Chairman, Sec and Treasurer with each vice coming from different areas.

This might stop little groups turning into little clicques. Oh and I am not suggesting this council is or has any clicque element to it.

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

The Eirgrid 10 things you need know makes interesting reading especially as I don't see a link to the World Health Organisation who we heard so much about.

The W.H.O are not included but they Re-Route campaign have have made serious allegations in their leaflet which IF true are very worrying for us,

Martron wrote: »

read part of the 10 things you need to know. usual propaganda.

lots of writing but not a lot of full information.

Didnt know what this 10 things you need to know was about and I only got leaflet in my door now.

On the first page and I dont want to over old groud the leaflet states
Eirgrid will tell you
These cables are perfectly safe - NOT TRUE
It will be impossible to accidently excavate or expose cables - NOT TRUE
Rogerstown Estuary can not be used at its a Nature 2000 iisite - NOT TRUE
They have been honest and upfront with all public information - NOT TRUE
HVDC are the same as exisiting underground cables - NOT TRUE
Eirgrid is a state owned company and therefore we should trust them - WOULD YOU? Personally NO

But who does one believe?

Most disappointing I think is Donabate Community Council supporting Eirgrid decision not to use the estuary. I wonder why that letter was wrote? Or if Eirgrid are donating much money to local clubs over there.

Eirgrid lied about the estuary according to this leaflet. They were basically stopped from using that route because of the nature 2000, yet Fingal C.C. can use it to lay sewage pipes and the Re route campaign can prove it can be used.

An Bord Pleannala conducted no independent Health and Safety report. They relied on reports made for and PAID for by Eirgrid And remember we as a nation are up in arms with the proposed Budget we are facing yet here is the oppertunity to save €5 million by coming up the estuary.

The leaflet also alleges that Eirgrid Admitted to misrepresenting the W.H.O. regarding E.M.F emissions.
Is it any wonder the Re-route campaign has grown?

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" Martin Luther King.
Edmund Burke is on Strike

Corsendonk

LeoB wrote: »

The W.H.O are not included but they Re-Route campaign have have made serious allegations in their leaflet which IF true are very worrying for us,


Didnt know what this 10 things you need to know was about and I only got leaflet in my door now.

On the first page and I dont want to over old groud the leaflet states
Eirgrid will tell you
These cables are perfectly safe - NOT TRUE
It will be impossible to accidently excavate or expose cables - NOT TRUE
Rogerstown Estuary can not be used at its a Nature 2000 iisite - NOT TRUE
They have been honest and upfront with all public information - NOT TRUE
HVDC are the same as exisiting underground cables - NOT TRUE
Eirgrid is a state owned company and therefore we should trust them - WOULD YOU? Personally NO
But who does one believe?

Most disappointing I think is Donabate Community Council supporting Eirgrid decision not to use the estuary. I wonder why that letter was wrote? Or if Eirgrid are donating much money to local clubs over there.

Eirgrid lied about the estuary according to this leaflet. They were basically stopped from using that route because of the nature 2000, yet Fingal C.C. can use it to lay sewage pipes and the Re route campaign can prove it can be used.

An Bord Pleannala conducted no independent Health and Safety report. They relied on reports made for and PAID for by Eirgrid And remember we as a nation are up in arms with the proposed Budget we are facing yet here is the oppertunity to save €5 million by coming up the estuary.

The leaflet also alleges that Eirgrid Admitted to misrepresenting the W.H.O. regarding E.M.F emissions.
Is it any wonder the Re-route campaign has grown?

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" Martin Luther King.
Edmund Burke is on Strike

We now all know that with the help of Nationwide you work for An Post which is a state body. Should we trust you?

Do we trust teachers, nurses, doctors or anyone that works for a state bodies? Sure one or two members of the No campaign work for the government too. Just emotional propaganda combining all the key emotional buttons with everything from health & safety concerns, dissatisfaction with the government, the growing conspiracy theory element in Irish society that big business rules us, Irish society poor understanding of science and peoples financial fears about house depreciation. Combine all that and you end up with your 10 things you need to know.

All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.

Martron

ha i dont agree with corsendonk suggesting with not trust leo.

but the 10 things a small amount of fear tactics.

for example they say the cables are dc but someimes emit a pulse like ac cables. but they dont say how many times this pulse is emitted and the amount of radiation. is it comparable to ac?

the point i am making is that they may be telling the truth but there is not the information behind it to prove it eitherway. they make broad statements that suit the cause nbut dont give enough information in the statement to disprove it.

i know this goes both way. but sides need to lay down the facts. none of this platitude rubbish that both sides have been spitting out to generally split supporters.

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

We now all know that with the help of Nationwide you work for An Post which is a state body. Should we trust you?

Do we trust teachers, nurses, doctors or anyone that works for a state bodies? Sure one or two members of the No campaign work for the government too. Just emotional propaganda combining all the key emotional buttons with everything from health & safety concerns, dissatisfaction with the government, the growing conspiracy theory element in Irish society that big business rules us, Irish society poor understanding of science and peoples financial fears about house depreciation. Combine all that and you end up with your 10 things you need to know.

Your opening line is bordering on Ridiculous, "should we trust you" How can you make that comparison?

I and the other professionals Isuspect are very trustworthy, I am anyway. This is a major infrastructual project and its vital if you want people "on side" to be honest. The honesty and integrity of state bodies in this whole debacle has been called into question. Yes there is a certain amount of propaganda but what do you do when you feel you are being fed lies?

I actually think the situation we find ourselves in is more down to Bankers than politiicans and having listened to 2 radio programmes during the week and met 2 politicans my view on this is not to far off. The growing conspiricy theory on big business is well founded I think.

Turn your argument around now, Are you telling me what I posted here is lies or incorrect?

Emotional propoganda or lies? It has been proved and admitted by Eirgrid that they were eh Economical with the truth!!!. Take that as you wish but in my language thats lies and bullying to get their way and totally unacceptable from a state body