Couple of questions.

dvae

Before i start i just want to say this is not an attack on catholics or christens. I myself was raised catholic but i have not attended church in many years other than to attend weddings and funerals etc.
Until recently i was not that religious or even spiritual but lately myself and my wife have started to read the Bible together.
The more we read the Bible the more we seem to find contradictions to what we were thought in school and church. We have done a bit of research and even tried googling some of our questions. Mostly what we find on the net is an attack on catholicism.
I would welcome any answers to our questions form Christens or otherwise.

1: Why do we worship or pray to idols such as statues even though the Bible strictly forbids it?

2: Why do some Christens consult with mediums, or have interest in astrology even though the Bible tells us these things are "detestable" to the Lord.

3: Why do we believe we go to straight to heaven when we die? when the Bible tells us that after death we go into the ground until the day of resurrection.

antiskeptic

dvae wrote: »

Until recently i was not that religious or even spiritual but lately myself and my wife have started to read the Bible together.

May I ask what prompted you to begin reading the Bible (without being nosy)?

The more we read the Bible the more we seem to find contradictions to what we were thought in school and church. We have done a bit of research and even tried googling some of our questions. Mostly what we find on the net is an attack on catholicism.

You might find it goes on here too

I would welcome any answers to our questions form Christens or otherwise.

1: Why do we worship or pray to idols such as statues even though the Bible strictly forbids it?

Do you worship or pray to a statue? Or do you use the statue as a focus point to help concentrate the mind?

I wouldn't see much problem with the latter but suspect that many Catholics do the former (considering the graven object itself sacred). I was in St. Peters in Rome and there was a statue of some saint or other with his toes worn down from years of being rubbed in superstitious fashion. The rub of the relic as it were. This would indeed be contra-biblical teaching.

2: Why do some Christens consult with mediums, or have interest in astrology even though the Bible tells us these things are "detestable" to the Lord.

Perhaps they're not Christians actually. If you don't believe you are made a Christian by having water poured over your head as an infant then you'd agree that many Roman Catholics (the majority perhaps) aren't Christians at all.

If so, it wouldn't be surprising that non-Christian 'Christians' would involve themselves with unbiblical practices. The Bible describes non-Christians as enemies of God and lying under "the sway and rule of the wicked one" so the fact they engage in such practices should be of no surprise.

3: Why do we believe we go to straight to heaven when we die? when the Bible tells us that after death we go into the ground until the day of resurrection.

Our bodies go into the ground awaiting resurrection finally. If Christian, our spirits (the most important bit of us) would go to the same place promised to the thief on the cross by Jesus, to whit: Paradise. Paradise can be considered a temporary waiting post until the new heavens and earth are ushered in.

dvae

There are a few reasons why i started reading the Bible about a year ago now.
The main reason would probably be the fact that there are so many religions out there all preaching different or similar beliefs.
Just because i was born into the catholic faith i did not think it give me the right to believe that my religion was the right one.
There must be hundreds of other religions out there who have people who think there religion be it christen or otherwise is the only one true religion.
Most religions take there belief from the Bible so i thought id start there.

I don't worship status or us them as an aid while praying.
I can remember when younger praying to them with my mother at church but not anymore.
A problem id have is if its wrong to worship statues why do priests bless them?
Why is there one in most churches with candles around them and, a money box?
I can probably understand people using them as an aid to praying but, if i was to start my own religion or church i would not take the chance of putting one near my parishioners, after all the Bible condemns even those who make them.

antiskeptic

dvae wrote: »

The main reason would probably be the fact that there are so many religions out there all preaching different or similar beliefs.Just because i was born into the catholic faith i did not think it give me the right to believe that my religion was the right one.

Fair enough logic

There must be hundreds of other religions out there who have people who think there religion be it christen or otherwise is the only one true religion.

Indeed. Perhaps one of them is true. Perhaps none. But it's unlikely they're all true. Logically speaking

Most religions take there belief from the Bible so i thought id start there.

I don't envy you your task if planning to study the "holy books" of even a few of the main ' contenders'

I don't worship status or us them as an aid while praying.
I can remember when younger praying to them with my mother at church but not anymore.

Fair enough. Biblically speaking, a person is probably best steering clear of involving statues in your life. The Bible doesn't say anything positive about them - and given their tendency to become a false god..

A problem id have is if its wrong to worship statues why do priests bless them?

My own view would be that Roman Catholicism involves all kinds of un-biblical practices but I suspect a Roman Catholic priest wouldn't suggest his 'blessing' of a statue is worshipping a statue.

Yet that is what many of the flock seem to do. Honour and prize the statue.

Why is there one in most churches with candles around them and, a money box?

I can probably understand people using them as an aid to praying but, if i was to start my own religion or church i would not take the chance of putting one near my parishioners, after all the Bible condemns even those who make them.

You'd probably find that the Roman Catholic church would have a reasonable sounding response to the use of statues. One that sidesteps the "thou shalt not make graven images" command. Whatever about the official view, many of the flock appear to make something magical of the the object itself. Which isn't a good thing biblically speaking.

Onesimus

http://forums.catholic.com/announcement.php?f=84&a=34

If you have any questions regarding the Catholic Faith Dvae, and you wish to get some answers you should register on the forum above, ask a Catholic apologist ( official defender of the Faith ) and they will give you an answer, if not you can save yourself some time and search the Apologist forums as there has been many people who have asked the same questions as yourself as the following links reveal. If you dont feel like your question is answered in the below quote you can contact Catholic Answers directly.


http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=36631&highlight=worshipping+statues
''In Exodus 20:4-5 God tells His people that they are not to carve graven images for worship. They are to worship Him alone. This is the point. He doesn’t want them to worship anyone or anything but Himself. Later in Exodus 25:18-19 He tells Moses to actually make two cherubim of beaten gold. In Numbers God tells Moses to fashion a bronze serpent and to put in on a poll. All who looked upon it were healed of their serpent bites. The bronze serpent is a clear sign of Christ on the Cross to whom we look for redemptive healing. These were images and God ordered them. Images are ok. Worshipping them is not ok. We don’t worship statues and other representations of God’s holy ones any more than we worship photographs of our loved ones.''

prinz

dvae wrote: »

1: Why do we worship or pray to idols such as statues even though the Bible strictly forbids it?

Don't know any Catholics who do this is fairness. The statue is a representation of someone/something, they are an artistic creation to for adornment and for use in reflection. When was the last time you saw a Catholic or a Christian worshipping or praying to a statue for itself?

dvae wrote: »

2: Why do some Christens consult with mediums, or have interest in astrology even though the Bible tells us these things are "detestable" to the Lord.

Good question. Why do some Christians murder people?

dvae wrote: »

3: Why do we believe we go to straight to heaven when we die? when the Bible tells us that after death we go into the ground until the day of resurrection.

Separation of spirit and body.

PDN

prinz wrote: »

Don't know any Catholics who do this is fairness. The statue is a representation of someone/something, they are an artistic creation to for adornment and for use in reflection. When was the last time you saw a Catholic or a Christian worshipping or praying to a statue for itself?

To be fair you could make the same arguments for pagans or Hindus. They didn't/don't pray to the statues for themselves - the statues are representations to help them reflect when they're praying to Zeus, Baal or Krishna. So does anything then count as idolatry?

Onesimus wrote:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...ipping+statues
''In Exodus 20:4-5 God tells His people that they are not to carve graven images for worship. They are to worship Him alone. This is the point. He doesn’t want them to worship anyone or anything but Himself. Later in Exodus 25:18-19 He tells Moses to actually make two cherubim of beaten gold. In Numbers God tells Moses to fashion a bronze serpent and to put in on a poll. All who looked upon it were healed of their serpent bites. The bronze serpent is a clear sign of Christ on the Cross to whom we look for redemptive healing. These were images and God ordered them. Images are ok. Worshipping them is not ok. We don’t worship statues and other representations of God’s holy ones any more than we worship photographs of our loved ones.'

Here's the problem. Such "aids to worship" have a horrible tendency to end up as objects of worship.

The bronze serpent referred to above had later to be destroyed because it had become an object of idolatry:

In the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, Hezekiah son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem twenty-nine years. His mother's name was Abijah daughter of Zechariah. He did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, just as his father David had done. He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was called Nehushtan.) 2 Kings 18:1-4

prinz

PDN wrote: »

To be fair you could make the same arguments for pagans or Hindus. They didn't/don't pray to the statues for themselves - the statues are representations to help them reflect when they're praying to Zeus, Baal or Krishna. So does anything then count as idolatry?

When the statue and statue worship is raised to be on par with that of the deity and worship of the deity itself? There's a lot of superstition alright but I don't think it can be called worship.

Onesimus

To be fair you could make the same arguments for pagans or Hindus. They didn't/don't pray to the statues for themselves - the statues are representations to help them reflect when they're praying to Zeus, Baal or Krishna. So does anything then count as idolatry?

unfortunately for the Pagans etc they claim not to be worshipping the statue and I believe them, the only problem is they are honoring something that is not the reflection of Truth.

Here's the problem. Such "aids to worship" have a horrible tendency to end up as objects of worship.

The bronze serpent referred to above had later to be destroyed because it had become an object of idolatry:[/QUOTE]

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 Solomon's temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.


2 Kings 18:4 it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God's wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.



the above proves your argument does not stand, Col. 1:15 the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the "image" (Greek "eikon") of the invisible God. Thus When God revealed himself in the Gospels under the form of a Dove and in Jesus Christ, we saw his image, before this nobody knew what God looked like, nor did anyone know what anything in heaven looked like, and therefore only under his command could anyone make a graven image of anything, but now since Jesus has revealed himself St.Paul tells us he is the image of the unseen.


I've never known any Catholic to worship or adore the images of the Saints but only to honour and use as an aid, this is ok because they have been sanctified by the Church. They dont have a tendency to be worshipped nowadays once people are aware that they are not to worship the image.

dvae

To be fair i have not seen anybody worship or pray to a statue for a while but, that said i have not been to church for a good number of years either.
To use statues, rosary beads, or even holy medals as a focus point or an aid for when praying still seems wrong to me.

I've never known any Catholic to worship or adore the images of the Saints but only to Honor and use as an aid, this is ok because they have been sanctified by the Church.

How can the church say its ok to use statues.
Have we forgotten the second commandment what God told us.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

prinz

dvae wrote: »

How can the church say its ok to use statues.
Have we forgotten the second commandment what God told us.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

That would include any artwork representing just about anything. The commandment in question goes on to refer to worshipping and idolising these images/likenesses.

faceman

dvae wrote: »

1: Why do we worship or pray to idols such as statues even though the Bible strictly forbids it?

As long as the statue is not being empowered by the person praying then its ok. Many people use statues to focus their thoughts and prayers. But they arent praying to the statue.

wrote:

2: Why do some Christens consult with mediums, or have interest in astrology even though the Bible tells us these things are "detestable" to the Lord.

Always has been strictly anti Christian to do this in any form. Mediums, seances, fortune telling, trying to communicate with the dead. All bad. Christians are supposed to put their faith in God and require any level of foresight, which is deemed to originate from Lucifer. Tarot is believed by some to originate from the biblical demon, "Ashtaroth" / "Ashtoreth" who was believed to have power of foresight.