Eviction notice

Graces7

Well, this afternoon a strange man came to the house.. the owner, back home from the US and demanding his house back as in July 15th.

We signed the lease etc last November with is father and sister;

Long term let they wanted.

We have 'phoned Threshold and PTRB and are assured that he cannot evict us as we have a signed lease until November.

It just is the worst time of year to find anywhere within our income and with Rent Allowance etc.

A shocking experience; thankful for the protection of the laws now.

Ste.phen

Well if you have a year's lease, you have a year's lease, and if you hear anything else from the 'owner' again, make sure you talk to Threshold!

Danbo!

What a chancer, glad you knew who to phone straight away. A lot of people dont know their rights and would be packing their bags about now.

planetX

I hope you are protected. Just beware, I had to leave a house because the owners put it up for sale, even though it was within lease. Maybe I could have stayed, but I moved out anyway because of all the hassle with the estate agent and viewings. It was all really upsetting, hope that doesn't happen to you. I'd start looking around at alternatives though.

Graces7

Gee thanks!

One estate agent we called told us he "can" do that so we set her right.

We will leave, but in our own time and when we find the right place.We have vegetables planted and no way are we abandoning all that hard work.

Deeply thankful for the Tenancy Laws and Threshold.

He also refused to accept that he cannot just walk in when he wants; he climbed a locked gate marked PRIVATE and with a BEWARE OF THE DOG ; enter at your own risk" sign and then freaked out when the dogs were less than happy to see him; no attempt to say who he was.

PTRB are sending the forms and he will get a letter tomorrow.

Graces7

planetX wrote: »

I hope you are protected. Just beware, I had to leave a house because the owners put it up for sale, even though it was within lease. Maybe I could have stayed, but I moved out anyway because of all the hassle with the estate agent and viewings. It was all really upsetting, hope that doesn't happen to you. I'd start looking around at alternatives though.

So sorry that that happened to you like that.

Yes, we are doing that of course, but with no intention of being pushed around. We took the house on the clear understanding that it was a loooooong lease we were after.

And we are telling them that we are seeking a new place but that it may take longer than the wee while they have given us.

They can only push you around if you allow it. I thought that they could break a lease in these circumstances, but Threshold and PTRB and our own solicitor all assure us that that is not so.

Ste.phen

Graces7 wrote: »

So sorry that that happened to you like that.

Yes, we are doing that of course, but with no intention of being pushed around. We took the house on the clear understanding that it was a loooooong lease we were after.

And we are telling them that we are seeking a new place but that it may take longer than the wee while they have given us.

They can only push you around if you allow it. I thought that they could break a lease in these circumstances, but Threshold and PTRB and our own solicitor all assure us that that is not so.

They can break a Part 4 tenancy (the default state of affairs if you don't have a formal lease) for that reason (though the notice periods are usually longer than what you were told by the 'owner), and they can put a provision into a fixed term lease that allows it, but most fixed term leases wouldn't have such a provision, it would have no benefit to the renter at all unless some sort of compensation was payable on early termination

D3PO

Ste.phen wrote: »

They can break a Part 4 tenancy (the default state of affairs if you don't have a formal lease)

whats your point the OP says she signed a lease in November ...

OP tell him your not moving without financial compensation for your vega nd for the inconveience. If they dont like that tell him that if he attempts to break your lease you will sue.

axer

Graces7 wrote: »

BEWARE OF THE DOG ; enter at your own risk

OP, on a side note take down that sign. You are asking for trouble if your dogs were ever to bite or injure a tresspasser or even visitor. Your sign basically says "I have a dog that I know is aggressive or dangerous" which is pretty much an admittance of liability.

With regards the lease, take a look at what it says in the lease itself.

Graces7

axer wrote: »

OP, on a side note take down that sign. You are asking for trouble if your dogs were ever to bite or injure a tresspasser or even visitor. Your sign basically says "I have a dog that I know is aggressive or dangerous" which is pretty much an admittance of liability.

With regards the lease, take a look at what it says in the lease itself.

No way. And no it doesn't say that.

Our gate is padlocked at all times and a larger sign says clearly STRICTLY PRIVATE.

When we allow people in, the dogs are shut in a room.

Many folk have these notices here in rural areas. Many more simply keep dogs that are aggressive loose with no warning. It is they who may get problems.

My sign says simply that we have dogs. Period. "enter at your own risk" puts the onus on the person.

So please do not tell us what to do! We are elderly and alone and need that protection also. .

We believe what three al experts tell us re the eviction notice so that will soon be in hand thankfully.

axer

Graces7 wrote: »

No way. And no it doesn't say that.

Our gate is padlocked at all times and a larger sign says clearly STRICTLY PRIVATE.

When we allow people in, the dogs are shut in a room.

Many folk have these notices here in rural areas. Many more simply keep dogs that are aggressive loose with no warning. It is they who may get problems.

Ok, you missed my point.

Graces7 wrote: »

My sign says simply that we have dogs. Period. "enter at your own risk" puts the onus on the person.

No you said the sign is "BEWARE OF THE DOG ; enter at your own risk" means that you recognise that there is a risk and that people should beware of the dog as a result of this risk.

Graces7 wrote: »

So please do not tell us what to do! We are elderly and alone and need that protection also. .

Wow, sorry for pointing it out to you. Ask a solicitor and they will tell you. The dogs without the sign are just as useful as with the sign.

Graces7

axer wrote: »

Ok, you missed my point.

No you said the sign is "BEWARE OF THE DOG ; enter at your own risk" means that you recognise that there is a risk and that people should beware of the dog as a result of this risk.

Wow, sorry for pointing it out to you. Ask a solicitor and they will tell you. The dogs without the sign are just as useful as with the sign.

Thank you for your apology which is accepted.

On the contrary, I know the point you are making and I disagree strongly with it; it is one of those "specious" ideas that make a mockery of any sensible precautions.

Our solicitor is the one who advised the sign!! lol!!

There is a risk with any dog if you act stupidly; as this man did, waving his arms about as if to hit the dogs, which were always under my control.

Needless to say he will think more than twice before entering without permission again, which is what we need.

Some of our family have two signs up.. the first as I have here, the second advising.. "YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.... It is now too late..."

Saw one sign "Trespassers will be eaten.."

Works for me...;)

Graces7

Has anyone been through this complaint procedure please?

PTRB sent the forms and they will be away this weekend. Threshold say it takes "months" so I am assuming that the landlord can do nothing meanwhile?

Also as he is not registered, that will add time.

We need time to find somewhere; summer is the worst time of course. In September there are many more rentals available.

Hoping there is no trouble from him after July 15th....

Thank you

seamus

Can't really give you any more advice except that in rural parts, people tend to be less observant of what you should legally do and tend to act now and deal with the legal consequences later.

I would advise having a bolt or other non-key locking mechanism fitted to the inside of the external doors in case someone gives the "owner" a key to get in.

Hopefully he will heed the correspondence he receives and abide by the law, but better safe than sorry.

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

Can't really give you any more advice except that in rural parts, people tend to be less observant of what you should legally do and tend to act now and deal with the legal consequences later.

I would advise having a bolt or other non-key locking mechanism fitted to the inside of the external doors in case someone gives the "owner" a key to get in.

Hopefully he will heed the correspondence he receives and abide by the law, but better safe than sorry.

You are reading my mind!!!

Just been trying to work that out..

It is when I am out that worries me though.. need a locksmith or an external bolt I can padlock..I can deal with it when I am in by leaving the key in the lock.

The outside of the door is not flush with the frame which makes it harder.

They have a key already of course, as they are allowed to do in law. Not supposed to change the locks, but as you say..

Only one door so that makes it easier... The collie lives in the closed in porch so hopefully as he has had one encounter with her already... Would be a very brave /foolish person...he kept waving his arms so the poor dog thought he was going to hit her.

Isn't it dreadful to be doing this? Hard to believe it really.

I think it will be OK until the day he specified in the letter.

not even wrong

D3PO wrote: »

OP tell him your not moving without financial compensation for your vega nd for the inconveience. If they dont like that tell him that if he attempts to break your lease you will sue.

This.

If the situations were reversed and you wanted to move out half-way through the lease then you'd lose your deposit for sure and potentially be liable for rent for the remainder of the lease. You should keep this in mind when you're deciding what level of compensation you're willing to accept.

D3PO

seamus wrote: »

I would advise having a bolt or other non-key locking mechanism fitted to the inside of the external doors in case someone gives the "owner" a key to get in.

do that without permission and wave goodbye to your deposit. Landlord would be able to sucessfully argue that you damaged the door by modifying it without permission and this would hold up in a PRTB dispute

seamus

D3PO wrote: »

do that without permission and wave goodbye to your deposit. Landlord would be able to sucessfully argue that you damaged the door by modifying it without permission and this would hold up in a PRTB dispute

I would prefer that over someone entering my home without permission and dumping all of my stuff outside.

Graces7 wrote: »

It is when I am out that worries me though..

Yeah, I should have thought of that. As you say, probably no need to be worried until the date in July.

After that date if he's still insistent that you're to be evicted, then swapping the current lock for an identical one is an easy enough job and if you can find a friendly local to do it for you, takes five minutes and the lock costs about €30.

When you leave, you can then reattach the old lock and the landlord cannot withhold your deposit.

Graces7

D3PO wrote: »

do that without permission and wave goodbye to your deposit. Landlord would be able to sucessfully argue that you damaged the door by modifying it without permission and this would hold up in a PRTB dispute

Interesting points.

When I told Threshold and the PTRB that he had come on the property without permission, had refused to leave, and then had been so adamant that he could be there any time he liked, they were incensed at him re that.

"the dwelling" you see means both the house and the garden; so he is breaking the tenancy laws if he even sets foot in the garden....

And I am to report to them if he does that; our own solicitor advises to call the Gardai if he does that.

Threshold and PTRB are on our sides

And if push came to shove, and I get a new lock fitted? Well, the old one broke and in the business of packing I clean forgot to send him a new key.

Actually, it is one of those locks you have to push the handle way up to lock and my wriests are so weak with arthritis now I can hardly do it.

At the last place, I came in one day to find all the doors open; someone still had a key. He had to replace the lock and told me to keep all the keys.

Friendly locals might be hard to find.... this is a local leading family. Close knit rural place.

As i say, interesting ramifications.It gets like a board/computer game!

Graces7

D3PO wrote: »

whats your point the OP says she signed a lease in November ...

OP tell him your not moving without financial compensation for your vega nd for the inconveience. If they dont like that tell him that if he attempts to break your lease you will sue.

No need hopefully.. the PRTB will do what is needful... and hopefully by the time it is sorted we will be out and settled elsewhere.

He is already in their bad books for not being registered.

And essential repairs got neglected. eg the toilet is still not attached to the floor as he knew way back... shower head busted when we arrived and not replaced.. oh there is quite a list.

And by then too hopefully the veg will be in and eaten.. If not we shall certainly ask for payment for them.

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

I would prefer that over someone entering my home without permission and dumping all of my stuff outside.

The dog is in the front porch.. But we will ensure that the door is locked by then anyways.

Elzer

axer wrote: »

OP, on a side note take down that sign. You are asking for trouble if your dogs were ever to bite or injure a tresspasser or even visitor. Your sign basically says "I have a dog that I know is aggressive or dangerous" which is pretty much an admittance of liability.

With regards the lease, take a look at what it says in the lease itself.

Actually you must have a sign up saying Beware of the dog as if someone enters without a notice up (like a child looking for a ball) you can be sued....... There was an article about it, in a local paper a couple of years ago........

Dont think your allowed to change locks though, bit like when your married and seperating locks can only be changed when owership is changed into either parties name..........
Landlord should give you notice that he is coming to inspect the house.

Very bad form on part of the landlord, Goodluck in your house hunt next time. Good time to change landlords as rents are dropping at the moment.:D

Xiney

If you change the lock with the same size/brand as the original so that you can put the old one back in when you leave, that might be the best thing...

it's kind of a way of getting around the law that says you're not to change the structure etc.

Rasmus

About the 'Beware of the dog' sign, I would think the contrary would apply to what was said about you admitting liability. Surely by displaying such a sign you are actually issuing a disclaimer? I.e. if someone was to enter your property and got bitten by your dog, you at least have some defense because there was a clear warning to the intruder?

The_Conductor

One point- if the owner has been abroad- you are liable for any tax due on the property if they are not tax resident in the country.

Type 4 tenancies etc are meaningless in the current context Grace- you have a lease- and the only way for the owner to get out of the lease is with your agreement or by purchasing the lease rights from you at concilliation (normally its for a nominal sum- don't get excited).

With respect of the garden- check exactly what your lease states. Unless the upkeep of the garden is specifically detailed in your lease- legally the owner is obliged to maintain the garden, along with the exterior of the property, and has the right to access both at any time. He/she may not enter the house itself without your permission however.

You need to check out your lease- you might be surprised at the rights it confers on you- but similarly it can confer rights on the owner that he/she would not normally have under a Part 4 tenancy.

S.

Graces7

smccarrick wrote: »

One point- if the owner has been abroad- you are liable for any tax due on the property if they are not tax resident in the country.

Type 4 tenancies etc are meaningless in the current context Grace- you have a lease- and the only way for the owner to get out of the lease is with your agreement or by purchasing the lease rights from you at concilliation (normally its for a nominal sum- don't get excited).

With respect of the garden- check exactly what your lease states. Unless the upkeep of the garden is specifically detailed in your lease- legally the owner is obliged to maintain the garden, along with the exterior of the property, and has the right to access both at any time. He/she may not enter the house itself without your permission however.

You need to check out your lease- you might be surprised at the rights it confers on you- but similarly it can confer rights on the owner that he/she would not normally have under a Part 4 tenancy.

S.

This is now with the PTRB for mediation and adjudication, and Threshold have opened a file on it.

There was a thread re garden upkeep here; apparently it now is the landlord's responsibility.

What I was referring to was the Tenancy Act that states clearly that "the dweling" includes the garden.

Threshold have confirmed this.

And that no; he thus cannot enter when he wants.

We had this with our previous landlord, who decided after a four month delay to force entry through a locked gate for some wok on a day that was not convenient.
( he had promised to do the work from the other side of the fence)

So this was confirmed then with Threshold.

The cottage was left for the man's family to manage; it was his father who signed the lease and RA forms. Who lives just down the road. Let them sort those issues out.

All we seek is space to sort out a decent house to move into...
At our pace, before this lease expires. We came here after floods in our previous house and seek to avoid another hasty move.

All this by the way has happened because we sought help re animals that were being abused by a neighbour who is now harassing us to force us to leave, after theatening to assault us. I had the gardai on the phone when he made those threats, and they heard him and saw him gather all his mates around him there then.... so he had gone to our landlord and told some story.

There is an inner door I can secure more easily. I am no good at DIY.

And THANK YOU all for your support in this hard time. Makes it that bit easier

Graces7

PS he probably thought we would just pack and go; now he will be tangled up in paperwork etc.. hopefully for months;)

what was the most encouraging was the tone of voice from both threshold and the PTRB; they are pro-tenant.

Getting too old and too frail for all this hassle though.

This will be the sixth move in as many years. Bad houses, bad landlords , because we are limited by Rent Allowance etc.

Back to the packing:rolleyes:

Victor

smccarrick wrote: »

One point- if the owner has been abroad- you are liable for any tax due on the property if they are not tax resident in the country.

This will depend on the facts of the situation. It would appear that the money is being paid to the an agent, who is (presumably) within Ireland, so money need not be withheld as it would then be the agent's responsibility. Of course, in a game of hardball, the tenant could enquire of the landlord / agent as to whether money chould be withheld.


Be careful with the locks. http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf

Residential Tenancies Act 2004 wrote:

Chapter 2
Provisions regarding tenant’s obligations
16.—In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—

...

(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord—
(i) in case the alteration or improvement consists only of repairing, painting and decorating, or any of those things, may not unreasonably withhold,
(ii) in any other case, may, in his or her discretion, withhold,

...

17.—(1) In section 16—
‘‘alter or improve’’, in relation to a dwelling, includes—
(a) alter a locking system on a door giving entry to the dwelling, and
(b) make an addition to, or alteration of, a building or structure (including any building or structure subsidiary or ancillary to the dwelling),

Graces7

Victor wrote: »

This will depend on the facts of the situation. It would appear that the money is being paid to the an agent, who is (presumably) within Ireland, so money need not be withheld as it would then be the agent's responsibility. Of course, in a game of hardball, the tenant could enquire of the landlord / agent as to whether money chould be withheld.


Be careful with the locks. http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf

Cannot access pdf.

Is OK; they have built an enclosed porch on the old cottage; so there is an inner door I can secure and remove the bolt etc when we leave.

This guy has not seen the house for five years. There are bolts and other bits all over.. Just need to feel at ease when we are out is all.
It has not been properly maintained anyways. It would need eg the bathroom and kitchen gutting before anyone but a TENANT could live here.