Farm Startup

Toplink

I am after inheriting approximately 40 acres of medium quality dry grazing land. This land has a flock and crush onsite and has watering facilities. There are no sheds onsite but the land would be a sheltered enough in parts. Its dry land and has been used to winter cattle on previous occasions. I am a farmer’s nephew but I haven’t been ever directly involved in farming, only helping out my the uncle here and there. There are some entitlements with the land but these are leased at present.

Anyway, I plan to start farming this land on a part-time basis over the next year or so and I am doing a bit of research into what is the handiest way to make a few pound without clocking too many hours! Bear in mind I have no tractor or machinery and I work a 9-5 job, recently married and in my mid 30's. The farm is half way between the job and home so its location does tie in with my daily route.

The obvious choice is a bit of dry stock farming, buy a few weanlings in spring and sell them before the winter. The other choice would be to buy a few maiden heifers and put them in calf and start a suckler farm and sell off the offspring as weanlings. Obviously this bring an extra level of time management into the mix but I would be willing to this based on seeing some return on it. About 20 acres of the land could be used to cut silage if it were tidied up a bit and possibly may need some form of reseeding.

So any advice folks.... If ye could start from scratch given the scenario above what route would ye go? I plan to get a Teagasc rep to have a look at it shortly and there is no shortage of advice from extended family but said I'd throw it here to get a few thoughts anyway.

lanod2407

Why are you going straight to a Teagasc advisor? In my experience, teagasc may not provide the best possible service - I spent a couple of years with them and moved this year to a private planner for my REPS plan ........ the difference is Night & Day! The Teagasc experience was remote and hands-off with monthly updates and leaflets in the post, but the private Planner has visited the farm and offered to return again in a couple of months for an update meeting and has helped unbelievably with advice and REPS / SFP submissions. If I were you I'd look wide and long before choosing who you take on board for guidance and advice.

Where are you based? I've 17 acres of poorish land - 40 of good land would be heaven!!!

Toplink

Thanks for your input.

I didnt go to anyone yet but just assumed that the ould teagasc lads would give the best guidance. I must do a search for a few private lads so.

I am based in South Galway. I am looking forward to getting up and going on it alright but calling it 'good' land might be stretching it a small bit!

vanderbadger

you wont make a whole lot which ever way you go but for me at least if your breeding a few calves its much more interesting, you would be dying to see how calves turn out etc, if you just want a handy situation then buy in a few cattle for the summer..something to remember..with calves you will need some shape of shed and dont forget the long winter nights when you will have to be running out to farm to check on cows.. maybe for the first year try just the few cattle, if you like it and find you can manage away maybe try a few cows..

ravima

my tuppence worth would be to get a non Treagasc advisor, on the grounds that s/he will be around next year and the year after. The last thing you want is to find that your advisor this year is transferred/promoted out of the region next year. You need to build up a relationship with him/her.

I think you should get the entitlements back into your name. Then tidy up the ground and perhaps sell grass for silage on the entire 40 acres, to a few locals. You could get €100 per acre for it.

Do not rent/lease the land as you become a LANDLORD instead of a FARMER and could lose any taxation benefits you availed of on inheritance.

I do not think you will make money on the 'summer grazing'. It's too risky. Everyone buys at the same time, pushing up the price and sells at the same time, pushing down the price!

The lure of the land is strong in all of us.

Do the sums, or learn from experience!

reilig

Toplink wrote: »

Thanks for your input.

I didnt go to anyone yet but just assumed that the ould teagasc lads would give the best guidance. I must do a search for a few private lads so.

I am based in South Galway. I am looking forward to getting up and going on it alright but calling it 'good' land might be stretching it a small bit!

My inlaws are in South Galway. They used a private planner in the past - he was about as useful as tits on a bull. 3 years ago he *forgot* to submit their REPS plan and they lost 8000 EUR in REPS payments that year. Last year he *mixed up* the final dates for REPS 4 applications by 1 week and they ended up missing out on REPS 4 altogther. Several of their neighbours used him too - he had all their plans done up but did not submit them on time. They know at least 5 other farmers that he did this to.

This year they saw sense and they used a Teagasc advisor for the AEOS. He was excellent. He was very informative, visited the farm twice before submitting the application. They saught legal advice about the private planner's actions or lack of and were told that they had no case. At least the Teagasc planner is accountable to someone. He was very professional and I understand that Teagasc have gained a lot of business in the area in the last 12 months. Their planner is is a local guy who farms himself, he's well in tune with what's going on and has made it very clear to them that he is just a phone call away for any questions that they might have.

A lot of people promote private planners, but you need to ask your neighbours about the planner that they use and choose very carefully!!!

Toplink

Great advice so far lads, thanks for the input.

Yeah, I do realise that a shed will be required if I am calving cows. I do have the makings of shed gathered over time and this could be assembled over the current flock rather than laying out too much cash for a new shed. I have 25 sheets of Kingspan roofing and a few heavy steel guirders.

Regarding the advisor I will shop around. The local reps planner has a good name as far as I know. We'll see sure.

I wont be doing anything till next year regardless but trying to gather as much info as I can.

Dozer1

For what it's worth I'd have a serious look at the forestry option, I know its not farming buts its a much more secure option that won't eat up all your time/money. I took over our place last year, its half forestry and half sucklers, take it from me the forestry is a much more reliable source of income. By the time you have cattle bought, sheds built the price of cattle will still be very up and down, the forestry however will be safely in the bank.
Its a case of the head ruling over heart I'm afraid.

Toplink

Dozer1 wrote: »

For what it's worth I'd have a serious look at the forestry option.

Dozer, you have raised a very valid point there. There is a small forest (SAC) running adjacement to this holding so the ground would be suitable but it hadn't even crossed my mind as I had agriculture only in my head.

More head scratching...

blue5000

If you buy beef x heifer calves next spring you will have the option of selling them on later or putting them in calf to start a suckler herd. Don't rule out the forestry option, its tax free income for 15 yrs, and could be useful as a pension esp if you have some wet land.

barbersfort

the forestry option is definitely worth looking into even for a proportion of those 40 acres;

tax free,
enhanced premiums for first 5 years (if in REPS).,
guaranteed premiums for next 15 after that
All planting, fencing and management for first 5 years included as a grant
good for wildlife/green option
hands off

agcons

reilig wrote: »

A lot of people promote private planners, but you need to ask your neighbours about the planner that they use and choose very carefully!!!

Spot on there reilig. Like most businesses in Ireland ag consultants build their client base off referrals. With more and more funding cutbacks and teagasc offices earmarked for closure you are more likely to have a longterm relationship with a private adviser than with teagasc. Talk to the neighbours/relations

reilig

agcons wrote: »

Spot on there reilig. Like most businesses in Ireland ag consultants build their client base off referrals. With more and more funding cutbacks and teagasc offices earmarked for closure you are more likely to have a longterm relationship with a private adviser than with teagasc. Talk to the neighbours/relations

I really wasn't promoting private or Teagasc advisors with my post. My point was that he should see who provides the best service in his area. Many of the posters on this thread are advising him not to consider Teagasc at all, but if they provide the best service in his area, he should definitely consider them. The best way to find this out is by talking to people that he knows who use planners. Private planners are just as likely to go out of business as teagasc offices are likely to close.

We can all advise Toplink on what to do but none of us actually know a lot about his farm or the planners in his area. Some people have a self interest, others are just basing their advice on experience. Paper won't refuse ink and a thread on boards will not refuse a post either

Toplink

Dont go fighting on my account lads!

Getting the best advise is location specific alright. I'll shop around and see who has the best reputation in the area. My current accountant has proved very helpful on the finances side as he does quite a few farming accounts along with his other stuff. Though I'm sure the accounting aint too complex.

Regarding insurance for a farm, what are the basics every farm should have assuming the farm is stocked. I assume all assets need to be insured along with some form of public liability.

Thanks again.

bouli73

my twopence halpenny worth....

would be in a similair circumstance to you. My advice would be 1) start small. Buy a few bullocks in spring and sell in winter the first year. Sell some of the grass for silage/hay. See how it goes before committing big bucks to anything. not easy to combine full time job with part time farming time wise. 2) do consider forestry - good income and no great hassle for you. 3) if you enjoy it, do it. plenty of people to advise against it but if it is in teh blood, then it is right for you. 4) dont expect any great return from it. dont go head first into reseeding, buying machinery etc until you are sure it is for you.

best of luck with it and i hope you enjoy it

agcons

Regarding insurance for a farm, what are the basics every farm should have assuming the farm is stocked. I assume all assets need to be insured along with some form of public liability.

Ive always found a better deal using a broker rather than dealing directly with either FBD or Hibernian- as far as I know the only two who deal with farmers. You will definitely need public liability, coverage for contractors, employees,neighbours etc. after that it depends on what you have thats worth insuring.
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmerschemespayments/ruralenvironmentprotectionschemereps/
will give you a complete list of Dept approved advisers.
Any of the forestry companies or consultants will give you a free initial assement of the land for forestry purposes. there is a list of them on www.aca.ie and before reilig throws another fit let me inform you I am a past president of that august body (and still a paid up member).
Good luck whatever you do with it, while you wont make much out of it financially its great to have somewhere to go to got away from it/them all and always an excuse to go there.

Toplink

agcons wrote: »

Good luck whatever you do with it, while you wont make much out of it financially its great to have somewhere to go to got away from it/them all and always an excuse to go there.

Thanks,

Not too bothered about making a fortune, If I can keep it ticking over at all twill help and any initial investments will keep the tax bill low for a few years anyway.

Regarding insurance, It would interesting to do a survey of the level of insurance across small farms at present, I'd say a high percentage of them are wide open to litigation if anything ever happened.

Toplink

Hi Folks,


Just wondering is there a good template farming cash flow spreadsheet available somewhere?

One with common outgoings on it etc. I am doing up a very basic business plan for the bank.

Thanks in Advance.

Username John

Toplink wrote: »

Hi Folks,


Just wondering is there a good template farming cash flow spreadsheet available somewhere?

One with common outgoings on it etc. I am doing up a very basic business plan for the bank.

Thanks in Advance.

Not sure if anything here is a help?
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/farming/money/index.php

20silkcut

It's gas but there is a fella beside me making a comfortable living off a 4 acre field of horticulture.

10 acres would be a ranch type enterprise to a horticulturalist.

Just look at the Dutch .

According to the teagasc hand book for 2007 salad onions were making a net profit of 17,000 euro per hectare!!!!

pakalasa

20silkcut wrote: »

According to the teagasc hand book for 2007 salad onions were making a net profit of 17,000 euro per hectare!!!!

Are you sure they weren't Dutch Tulips?

TheInquisitor

If your working 9 to 5 already just put it to forestry. It'll be a nice pension pot for you in 20 years

lanod2407

Toplink - 14 months on from your initial post ........... have you made any progress? What did you decide to do?