Enniscorthy

Del.Monte

The Enniscorthy Farmers Market returns to Abbey Square this Saturday 23rd May from 9.00am - 2.00pm.

paulaa

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I'm not really suggesting people are so lazy they won't walk from Dunnes, but my point is that getting around the town is a painstaking experience at the best of times, I'm not sure adding further pedestrianisation to it is the way forward.

I love pedestrianisation and its often a great asset to a town or city, but an already struggling town doesn't need more barriers to getting people in to it, especially with 2 much better shopping town 15-20 minutes away.

The waste of needed parking spaces, for those people I mentioned in my other post, in the Market Square is what started the decline of commerce in the town. Rafter street pedestrianisation and Slaney street just compounded it. The town is too small to close off streets . The whole thing was a vanity project for the council and local TDs.

Talking to people visiting Enniscorthy the feedback is not good. A historian I know who visits the town, Vinegar Hill and John Kelly's grave in Killanne every year once told me "that Fr. Murphy and the Croppy Boy were drowned out in the middle of a monstrosity".

PhilOssophy

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

I replied to a post by paulaa, but then PhilOssophy came back a few minutes later with what looked like a direct reply to my reply, if you know what I mean.

Apologies if I picked things up wrongly. Just seemed a bit odd.

Anyway, think PhilOssophy hits the nail on the head up there as well. Enniscorthy's biggest problem is not the pedestrianisation of Rafter Street or anywhere else. It's simply that both Gorey and Wexford are much more attractive towns for many people, for many reasons, and it'll take much more than whether or not cars are allowed on certain Enniscorthy streets to change that.

Yep, I was just joining in the discussion. Yeah I think that's the main reason, but at the same time that's why getting people in to the town has to be a priority, and making that harder is a bad idea.

Cantona's Collars

paulaa wrote: »

The waste of needed parking spaces, for those people I mentioned in my other post, in the Market Square is what started the decline of commerce in the town. Rafter street pedestrianisation and Slaney street just compounded it. The town is too small to close off streets . The whole thing was a vanity project for the council and local TDs.

Talking to people visiting Enniscorthy the feedback is not good. A historian I know who visits the town, Vinegar Hill and John Kelly's grave in Killanne every year once told me "that Fr. Murphy and the Croppy Boy were drowned out in the middle of a monstrosity".

Looking back on old photos of the Market Square,it looked a lot better back in the day. Imagine if it had been left alone and say the farmer's market was situated there on a Saturday morning

PhilOssophy

paulaa wrote: »

The waste of needed parking spaces, for those people I mentioned in my other post, in the Market Square is what started the decline of commerce in the town. Rafter street pedestrianisation and Slaney street just compounded it. The town is too small to close off streets . The whole thing was a vanity project for the council and local TDs.

Could not agree more and several long-standing shop owners in the town would say just that. Lets face it, what even is the point of the development of the Market Square.

I grew up in Enniscorthy in the 80s/90s, and it was a vibrant town back then. It was by no means perfect, and yes Dunnes leaving Rafter St was a big loss, but the pedestrianisation has not helped the town 1 bit and it is now a soulless, lifeless town.

People say "Sure there was only 13-14 parking spaces on Rafter St" - ask any business owner on the street how often those spaces turned over in an hour and how much money was spent by people in the process?

It is by no means unique, and rural towns across the country have the same problems, but to me the attempts to improve the town have in fact made it worse. They couldn't even organise to have the same stone on Rafter St after all and have just made a mess of it.

Uncle Pierre

Right, something of an opposite viewpoint here. For context, I grew up about five miles from Enniscorthy, and used often go into town with my mother on Saturdays while she was doing the weekly shopping, while in my teenage years around mid to late 1980s.

She'd always park in what we still call the old Dunnes Stores car park and walk to wherever she needed to go downtown. Then park in the car park across the road from Pettit's on the way home to do the actual grocery shop (we lived out the Kiltealy road).

She's in her early 70s now and I know she still does the same - park at the old Dunnes Stores and walk wherever she needs to go from there. I do the same myself too whenever I happen to go to Enniscorthy rather than Gorey (don't mind saying that I live between Ferns and Camolin myself).

Do or did all these other people who apparently expect to be able to park on Rafter Street if they want to shop there, and who apparently stopped going there because they can't park there any more, really expect to be able to pull into a parking spot on Rafter Street if they want to go into a shop there? And then maybe drive around to Weafer Street and park again if they want to stop somewhere there too? Before driving again around towards Duffry Gate and down past the cathedral to pull into another stop if they want to go somewhere around Market Square?

Similarly, if pedestrianisation is Rafter Street's problem, then why is Weafer Street so depressed now too? Or almost anywhere else you care to mention in town? Surely they can't all have been depending on the spin-off from people parking on Rafter Street?

CoBo55

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Right, something of an opposite viewpoint here. For context, I grew up about five miles from Enniscorthy, and used often go into town with my mother on Saturdays while she was doing the weekly shopping, while in my teenage years around mid to late 1980s.

She'd always park in what we still call the old Dunnes Stores car park and walk to wherever she needed to go downtown. Then park in the car park across the road from Pettit's on the way home to do the actual grocery shop (we lived out the Kiltealy road).

She's in her early 70s now and I know she still does the same - park at the old Dunnes Stores and walk wherever she needs to go from there. I do the same myself too whenever I happen to go to Enniscorthy rather than Gorey (don't mind saying that I live between Ferns and Camolin myself).

Do or did all these other people who apparently expect to be able to park on Rafter Street if they want to shop there, and who apparently stopped going there because they can't park there any more, really expect to be able to pull into a parking spot on Rafter Street if they want to go into a shop there? And then maybe drive around to Weafer Street and park again if they want to stop somewhere there too? Before driving again around towards Duffry Gate and down past the cathedral to pull into another stop if they want to go somewhere around Market Square?

Similarly, if pedestrianisation is Rafter Street's problem, then why is Weafer Street so depressed now too? Or almost anywhere else you care to mention in town? Surely they can't all have been depending on the spin-off from people parking on Rafter Street?

Ahh shur dem country folk don't mind de walkin:pac::pac:

Uncle Pierre

Aaar, maybe dat's it. :D

And dem town folks are so soft that dey'd drive downtown and den expect to park wherever they damn well want. :D

CoBo55

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Aaar, maybe dat's it. :D

And dem town folks are so soft that dey'd drive downtown and den expect to park wherever they damn well want. :D

Shur you'd get lost in Enniscorthy... To Quote Miley:pac:

EverythingGood

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Looking back on old photos of the Market Square,it looked a lot better back in the day. Imagine if it had been left alone and say the farmer's market was situated there on a Saturday morning

Some nice pictures in Mark Wickhams.

Some general overview of the discussion - I too remember Ennsiscorthy as a vibrant, busy town. But we had factories then - lads left school and went to jobs - Alcast, Raynaers, Wexal, we had Buttles too - but manufacturing is dead - now lads still leave school but have no jobs to go to.

We haven't evolved - Wexford town is at an advantage with the physical set up of its main st - but it has evolved - a vibrant financial and insurance sector (Zurich, BNY Mellon, Cairn etc).

Gorey - always the forgotten child for me, and still is, even though its has some good shops, its more Dublin than Wexford.

Things could be worse for Enniscorthy though, we could be New Ross!!

paulaa

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Looking back on old photos of the Market Square,it looked a lot better back in the day. Imagine if it had been left alone and say the farmer's market was situated there on a Saturday morning

I agree it was much better and in keeping with our history. I've said this before but you go to any small town in France and most of them have kept their market squares in the heart of the town. The weekly markets attract both locals and visitors . The farmer's market in the square would be perfect and preferable to it being a hangout for teenagers to shout abuse at passers by and treating the place like a dustbin.

PhilOssophy

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Do or did all these other people who apparently expect to be able to park on Rafter Street if they want to shop there, and who apparently stopped going there because they can't park there any more, really expect to be able to pull into a parking spot on Rafter Street if they want to go into a shop there? And then maybe drive around to Weafer Street and park again if they want to stop somewhere there too? Before driving again around towards Duffry Gate and down past the cathedral to pull into another stop if they want to go somewhere around Market Square?

Similarly, if pedestrianisation is Rafter Street's problem, then why is Weafer Street so depressed now too? Or almost anywhere else you care to mention in town? Surely they can't all have been depending on the spin-off from people parking on Rafter Street?

Good points raised but lets face it, Weafer Street is just an artery through the town for traffic, and was ever thus. I always remember my parents driving into the town and trying to park on Rafter Street, if there wasn't a spot no bother park on Weafer Street or Dunnes or Court Street, or sometimes (ahem) park a bit dodgy for 10 minutes, run to the butchers, Delaney's, Sam McCauley, gone again but still could have left 50-60 quid in a few businesses in a few minutes.

I don't think it is that people are too lazy to walk from Dunnes, but Rafter Street has not been improved by pedestrianisation and it looks absolutely brutal and grim and the life that was once on the street has been completely ripped out of it.

Hard to know what the best solution is, just my tuppence worth.

the kelt

Pedestrianisation of the streets isnt an issue.

Sure its the same in Wexford town for example.

Its business or the lack of it thats the problem plain and simple, cars going up and down rafter street isnt going to improve business or the lack of it.

CoBo55

the kelt wrote: »

Pedestrianisation of the streets isnt an issue.

Sure its the same in Wexford town for example.

Its business or the lack of it thats the problem plain and simple, cars going up and down rafter street isnt going to improve business or the lack of it.

Minimum wage being the only wage is the main problem with Enniscorthy, if you can get a job at all.

Uncle Pierre

the kelt wrote: »

Pedestrianisation of the streets isnt an issue.

Sure its the same in Wexford town for example.

Its business or the lack of it thats the problem plain and simple, cars going up and down rafter street isnt going to improve business or the lack of it.

A very concise summary of what I've been saying all along.

Giving out about the Council about pedestrianiation of Rafter Street or anywhere else is just an easy "out" for the traders, instead of them analysing how or why they haven't remained as competitive and as attractive as their counterparts in other towns.

If a shop on Rafter Street (for example) was still attractive enough to shoppers, they'd walk a couple of minutes to get there instead of expecting to drive right up to the door, same as you could have to walk along a good stretch of Main Street in Wexford to get to all the shops you want to visit, instead of moving the car between them.

On a slightly different but still related note, I think it says a lot about Enniscorthy that apart from the new Dunnes Stores, there wasn't a lot retail development or investment even during the Celtic Tiger years. That must be almost unique amongst towns of its size.

PhilOssophy

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

On a slightly different but still related note, I think it says a lot about Enniscorthy that apart from the new Dunnes Stores, there wasn't a lot retail development or investment even during the Celtic Tiger years. That must be almost unique amongst towns of its size.

I'm not so sure that is a problem, plenty of towns had lots of retail developments built in the Celtic Tiger years and they now sit vacant, which is an even worse vista.

Its hard to know overall though and I am not claiming to be any form of expert!

kneemos

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

A very concise summary of what I've been saying all along.

Giving out about the Council about pedestrianiation of Rafter Street or anywhere else is just an easy "out" for the traders, instead of them analysing how or why they haven't remained as competitive and as attractive as their counterparts in other towns.

If a shop on Rafter Street (for example) was still attractive enough to shoppers, they'd walk a couple of minutes to get there instead of expecting to drive right up to the door, same as you could have to walk along a good stretch of Main Street in Wexford to get to all the shops you want to visit, instead of moving the car between them.

On a slightly different but still related note, I think it says a lot about Enniscorthy that apart from the new Dunnes Stores, there wasn't a lot retail development or investment even during the Celtic Tiger years. That must be almost unique amongst towns of its size.

Nowhere to build anything except out of town, and that's not allowed.
Though Aldi and Lidl got permission despite being about the same distance put of town as Tesco's knocked back plan.

If Enniscorthy had everything on one Street like Gorey and Wexford it would probably be well busy as well in fairness.

Uncle Pierre

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I'm not so sure that is a problem, plenty of towns had lots of retail developments built in the Celtic Tiger years and they now sit vacant, which is an even worse vista.

Its hard to know overall though and I am not claiming to be any form of expert!

I'm not claiming to be an expert either, and I wouldn't wish empty retail parks or shopping centres with lots of vacant units on the town right now either.

But what I meant was that even during the few years when these sort of places were springing up and doing good business in other towns, nobody (that I know of anyway) saw enough potential in Enniscorthy to think it might be worthwhile investing there.

Then again, they might have been put off instead by insular views like the ones that were opposed to Tesco. I don't know.

Uncle Pierre

kneemos wrote: »

If Enniscorthy had everything on one Street like Gorey and Wexford it would probably be well busy as well in fairness.

Dunno about that. Main Street in Wexford is quite a stretch if you want to go from Dunnes at one end to Penneys or Heatons at the other, to compare what they have if looking for cheap(ish) clothes, for example.

Having a few attractive streets radiating off a central point like Market Square would be a more condensed town centre where it's easier for people to move between shops. Obviously Waterford is on a different scale, but I'm thinking of something like the area there (don't know the name) that you reach if you walk up the road opposite the clock tower on the quays.

arseagon

https://www.southeastradio.ie/2020/05/enniscorthy-house-party-broken-up-by-gardai/

Anyone know who or where this was?

jpb1974

arseagon wrote: »

https://www.southeastradio.ie/2020/05/enniscorthy-house-party-broken-up-by-gardai/

Anyone know who or where this was?

Travellers in Drumgoold on Wednesday night, I was told.

CoBo55

jpb1974 wrote: »

Travellers in Drumgoold on Wednesday night, I was told.

First time for everything I suppose...

Del.Monte

Is the Strawberry Festival on? There's some horrible music/yowling coming from the Market Square direction all evening. Can't shut the windows to keep the noise out or I'd suffocate.

TitianGerm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is the Strawberry Festival on? There's some horrible music/yowling coming from the Market Square direction all evening. Can't shut the windows to keep the noise out or I'd suffocate.

It's Tina Dunbarr singing I'd say and the wind is carrying the sound. She's been up the Shannon or out around Andy Doyle close every second weekend "singing" since lockdown started. Absolute pain in the whole.

byhookorbycrook

Are things so bad in Enniscorthy that someone had to drive all the way to Inch Beach in Kerry today ?

PhilOssophy

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Are things so bad in Enniscorthy that someone had to drive all the way to Inch Beach in Kerry today ?

What's happening?

kneemos

Lidl will close on Sunday.

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/06/04/major-development-of-lidl-store-in-enniscorthy/

Uncle Pierre

When they did the same thing in Gorey, they were able to move temporarily into the old Tesco premises on the Courtown Road.

If only there was a similar vacant supermarket-style premises in Enniscorthy......anybody ever mention Rafter Street around here?

PhilOssophy

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

When they did the same thing in Gorey, they were able to move temporarily into the old Tesco premises on the Courtown Road.

If only there was a similar vacant supermarket-style premises in Enniscorthy......anybody ever mention Rafter Street around here?

Who owns that unit......

Uncle Pierre

Oh, I know it's not realistic to suggest Dunnes Stores might allow Lidl the use of the place for a few months. Just putting it out there as another example of what a pity it is that Dunnes have chosen to play hardball with the place by holding onto it in order to keep competitors out, rather than letting a prime town centre spot be used the way it should be used.