Saorview Content Speculation

jamescc

Hibrasil wrote: »

Tired of Poor analogue reception so I recently got a Walker Saorview STB... I get 6 TV channels in the following order:
1. RTE1
2. RTE2
3. RTENL1
4. TG4
5. RTE News Now
6. RTENL2
When I change from one Channel to another channel...my TV displays the definition details:
RTE1, RTENL1, TG4, and RTE News Now - 544 x 576
RTE2 - 704 x 576
RTENL2 - 1440 x 1088
The info on RTENL2 is that broadcast is a HD Test transmission. The definition on 1440 x 1088 is way better than than of the other channels.....I assume 3 Rock is where I get signal from (I am living in West Dublin).....I have an external aerial in the back garden not very high (10 ft).....and signal from the aerial is combined with Satellite signal from the Sky dish (by means of a Terrestrial / Satellite Diplexer)...the Terrestrial signal is seperated from the satellite signal at / just before the two STB's....definition details may shed some light on the way DTT will operate on start up......by the way any suggestion on a replacement STB for my Sky box.....without departing from the current thread significantly (i.e DTT content).....if RTENL2 is what HD is about....I'd like FTA HD also.....thanks

is it wp10dtb i have the same with a usb connection in the front not been able to get it working as of yet

Doc_46

Hi Folks,

I've a MVision HD300 Combo. Last night (30th Sep) all my Irish DTT's "disapeared".Anyone else experienced the same problem?
I'm in Loughrea and receiving the signal from Cairn Hill.

jamescc

did you try to retune it

Doc_46

I'll Check the mother in laws first. She has a built in MPEG4 tuner in the TV.
Next step is the retune. The MVision is tempremental enough.

Doc_46

Hi James,

Yeah the retune did it. It looks like the frequencies were updated.
I got the 5 channels in triplicate. The five old ones with no signal
and two other batches of the five with separate degrees of Quality
and Signal strength, the best of which was 75% and 89% respectively.
This is the second time in perhaps 4 months its happened. It's not a problem.
(I'm delighted with the pic.etc.)I was just wondering if any MVision owners had the same experience.

ive noticed that rte tends to broadcast channels in triplicate on very similar frequencies...not too sure why...heres a pic uploaded of the sources ive for rte 2: all in the 665-667mhz range from mount leinster and signal quality is from 48% to 60%

there seems to be three sources for each channel on fairly similar frequencies

Q: with three sources for each channel - does that take up triple the bandwidth for each channel on the mux? That would be a waste of space would it not?

watty

Your software is misleading you,

A DTT Mux is 8MHz wide.
Mt Leinster is allocated 45 39 42 49
The frequency for Ch 45 is nominally 666MHz DTT, i.e, 662MHz to 670MHz


DTT Spectrum usage

(Analogue on 45 would be 663.25 Video 669.25 Audio and 669.75 Nicam)


PAL Analogue spectrum usage without Nicam carrier.


DTT uses a single serial data stream for ALL the channels. This then spit into about 1,705 or 6,817 separate slower data streams for carriers that are approximately 4 kHz or 1 kHz apart (2K or 8K FFT DTT)

665-667MHz is only part of one signal. You can't tune separate parts. There is just something a bit buggy about your scanning software.

watty

watty wrote: »

Your software is misleading you,

A DTT Mux is 8MHz wide.
Mt Leinster is allocated 45 39 42 49
The frequency for Ch 45 is nominally 666MHz DTT, i.e, 662MHz to 670MHz


DTT Spectrum usage

(Analogue on 45 would be 663.25 Video 669.25 Audio and 669.75 Nicam)


PAL Analogue spectrum usage without Nicam carrier.


DTT uses a single serial data stream for ALL the channels. This then spit into about 1,705 or 6,817 separate slower data streams for carriers that are approximately 4 kHz or 1 kHz apart (2K or 8K FFT DTT)

665-667MHz is only part of one signal. You can't tune separate parts. There is just something a bit buggy about your scanning software.

cheers watty - im not too familiar with media centres tuning capibilities but it seems to work well...i was thinking that it was just one broadcast...couldnt imagine 3 sources so close in frequency plus the waste it would be....any ideas why its showing up as such? ive none and its working properly for me so far

could DDT be similar as shown in the analouge above?

audio on one frquency and vidoe on another and the mpheg aertel coming in on the third source?

watty

Buggy software.

watty

watty wrote: »

Buggy software.

Well as long as it works - ill just use DVB Dream to check frequencies for channels in future - cheers...so any other news in regards to content or channel speculation?

The Cush

Some questions this week in the Dáil from Leo Varadkar to the Minister in relation to what services will be available

Broadcasting Services

1532. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will list all of the applications he has received from RTE for the provision of new services; when the application was received; the decision made in each case; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33160/10]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): Section 103 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 provides for both RTÉ and TG4 to vary the number of channels it operates subject to the consent of the Minister. This section also sets out the procedure that the Minister must adopt in making a decision on whether to consent to any new or additional channels. These procedures provide for the Minister to, inter alia, consult with RTÉ and other interested parties, consider the sectoral impact of the new services, following an assessment by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, and to consider the public value of these channels.

In relation to the development of additional channels, RTÉ has recently clarified that it wishes to develop a number of new TV service channels for carriage on the public service Digital Terrestrial Television multiplex. In accordance with section 103, I have commenced the required consultations with RTÉ and the Authority on the proposals and it is my intention to complete my consideration of this issue as soon as possible.

Broadcasting Services

1560. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the progress made in establishing an Irish film channel. [33119/10]

1561. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if it is still intended to establish an Oireachtas television channel. [33120/10]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 1560 and 1561 together.

The Broadcasting Act 2009 provides for the development of an Oireachtas Channel and an Irish Film Channel, including a right of carriage on the RTÉ digital terrestrial television multiplex in respect of these channels. In accordance with section 125 of the Act, the Commission of the Houses of the Oireachtas may establish a public service channel to be made available throughout the island of Ireland providing coverage of:

- proceedings of both Houses of the Oireachtas;

- proceedings of a local authority;

- institutions under the British-Irish Agreement;

- other legislatures; and

- UN, EU and Council of Europe institutions.

The 2009 Act provides that the cost of such a channel would be met from the budget of the Commission of the Houses of the Oireachtas and that no advertising is permitted on the channel. In relation to the Film Channel, section 127 of the Act provides that the Irish Film Board may establish a public service channel to be made available throughout the island of Ireland providing coverage of Irish, European and World films including those in the Irish language. The Act provides that the cost of such a channel would be met from the budget of the Irish Film Board. The Act also provides that the Irish Film Channel can broadcast advertisements.

My Department will continue working with the Irish Film Board, the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport and with the Houses of the Oireachtas to see how the film and Oireachtas channels can be delivered.

watty

Translation:
You will get what RTE said before, but the Oireachtas Channel and Film Channel depend on Government and Irish Film Board Budgets.

Which won't be in this years budgets

thetonynator

Rte showing a tour of Dublin video on NL HD test instead of test card now, with music.

(from mt. leinster)

Edit: also showing a video called: 4 seasons in a day, basically showing irish countryside . ..

thetonynator

and we're back to the test card . ..

Gerry Wicklow

@thetonynator

There are several threads about the HD test already

glimmerman123

RTE News Now, RTE Gold and RTE Chill are now showing No Program information is available. We might see some new activity before the soft launch at the end of the month.

watty

Then again you might not

Widescreen

folks, any idea will the "soft" launch be just the channels already on air or will TV3 be added by that date? thanks

ftakeith

Widescreen wrote: »

folks, any idea will the "soft" launch be just the channels already on air or will TV3 be added by that date? thanks

no one knows until a press release from rte
it may appear on november 1st 2010

watty

Only TV3 knows what TV3 is doing. I'd not hold my breath. They will be on it before 31st October 2011. 31st October 2012 Probably.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Only TV3 knows what TV3 is doing. I'd not hold my breath. They will be on it before 31st October 2011. Probably.

or Oct 2012.

jamescc

have a look at this:

much of it is already known:

http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/~peoplesr/forums//showthread.php?t=183452&langid=2

watty

There nothing new on that link that hasn't been on this forum and techtir since the week of the Oireachtas Communications Committee presentation.

glimmerman123

I still find it odd that the RTENL website is still saying that no launch date has been set for RTE DTT. I thought they would at least have changed it by now and put in the soft launch date. Maybe this will change on October 31st.

Machinehead

Oct 31st. Some say it's a "technichal-test period launch", others a "soft launch" & others view 31/10/2010 as a full launch of "Saorview" DTT. I would go for either of the first two. I would have thought that RTÉ would have some sort of public info campaign running by now if we were to have a "go no go" full launch on the 31st.

watty

The Minister decided that Full Public Launch would be at December 2011 at latest, it seems to be defined as point that 49 sites - 97.2% population coverage. RTE say this can be by Q2 2011. No actual date has yet been published for Full launch.
See http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/Irish-DTT-Sites
and http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorview (Time scale speculation)

The coverage by 31st October 2010 supposed to be 94.5% population coverage

Also there is the question of HD playout. It may not be ready by 31st October 2010.
Full time HD isn't possible till all sites have the 2nd Multiplex. Originally PSB was not to get the 2nd Multiplex till after Analogue close down, 2013. But with failure of PayDTT, the BAI and Minister has agreed that RTE NL have 2nd PSB mux now. We don't have a time scale.

Also Saorsat (fill in for 2% to 7% and back up feed) is to use a Satellite not yet launched. That service could be on Test by March if all goes OK. (It takes a few weeks to reach final position after launch, which is maybe early December, then a few weeks of system tests before a broadcaster gets access. Then broadcaster has to test out uplink gear. Is there a new 2.5m to 5m uplink dish at Donnybrook yet? So not possible really to have service on KaSat much earlier than end of Feb/Early March )

So some time April to August for full PSB service with two Mux and Satellite Fill-in and HD full time on maybe two channels (most programs upscalled) would be more realistically called a Full Public Launch.

galtee boy

watty wrote: »

The Minister decided that Full Public Launch would be at December 2011 at latest, it seems to be defined as point that 49 sites - 97.2% population coverage. RTE say this can be by Q2 2011. No actual date has yet been published for Full launch.
See http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/Irish-DTT-Sites
and http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorview (Time scale speculation)

The coverage by 31st October 2010 supposed to be 94.5% population coverage

Also there is the question of HD playout. It may not be ready by 31st October 2010.
Full time HD isn't possible till all sites have the 2nd Multiplex. Originally PSB was not to get the 2nd Multiplex till after Analogue close down, 2013. But with failure of PayDTT, the BAI and Minister has agreed that RTE NL have 2nd PSB mux now. We don't have a time scale.

Also Saorsat (fill in for 2% to 7% and back up feed) is to use a Satellite not yet launched. That service could be on Test by March if all goes OK. (It takes a few weeks to reach final position after launch, which is maybe early December, then a few weeks of system tests before a broadcaster gets access. Then broadcaster has to test out uplink gear. Is there a new 2.5m to 5m uplink dish at Donnybrook yet? So not possible really to have service on KaSat much earlier than end of Feb/Early March )

So some time April to August for full PSB service with two Mux and Satellite Fill-in and HD full time on maybe two channels (most programs upscalled) would be more realistically called a Full Public Launch.

Watty, call it ! In your vast knowledge and experience of everything broadcasting wise, what if anything, will we see different, in 20 days time ?

stwome01

glimmerman123 wrote: »

Over on one of the forums on the Saor TV website they are saying that changes and additions will be made to RTE DTT on the 13th October. It doesn't say what changes or additions will be made. It will be interesting to see if TV3 will make an appearance.

I haven't checked my tv today but I presume that there has been no change?

jamescc

stwome01 wrote: »

I haven't checked my tv today but I presume that there has been no change?

just checked tv no change to lay out or stations if that is what you mean

jamescc

stwome01 wrote: »

I haven't checked my tv today but I presume that there has been no change?

just checked tv no change to layout or listings!

glimmerman123

jamescc wrote: »

just checked tv no change to layout or listings!

I noticed the post on the other forum which said changes and additions were going to take place today has been removed. This happened shortly after i posted the information here. I wonder why it was removed? Maybe RTENL decided not to make any changes until near the soft launch date or what we have now on DTT is what we will have until the full launch.

jamescc

it would be interesting to see if anything but i woud not be getting my hopes up to early it could have been a mistake or a miss print

jamescc

i think that the secenery on rtenl has changed do

jamescc

glimmerman123 wrote: »

I noticed the post on the other forum which said changes and additions were going to take place today has been removed. This happened shortly after i posted the information here. I wonder why it was removed? Maybe RTENL decided not to make any changes until near the soft launch date or what we have now on DTT is what we will have until the full launch.

is this what was being talked about

http://www.rte.ie/about/pressreleases/2010/1013/rte.ieredesign13102010.html

watty

Could be. That's just a prettytification of the web site.

dowtchaboy

Looks like DTT intro under threat?

But Communications Minister Eamon Ryan's department is understood to be pointing out that removing the €55m would be "quite crippling".

RTE is handling the changeover to digital television, on behalf of the Government, so this would be the first project under threat if there was a cut.

article in todays Indo re €55M subsidy for free licences to be cut.... as will licence fee??

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rtes-euro55m-for-pensioner-tv-licences-under-threat-in-budget-2388831.html

But it IS the Indo - so it's probably not true.....:)

glimmerman123

There was a little bit of activity on the HD channel this morning. Nothing to get too excited about. The HD channel was on full colour bars since yesterday evening and this morning there was just a blank screen. The RTENL HD test card is now back with video testing.It doesn't look like anything new is going to be added to the line up at this stage. :mad:

galtee boy

glimmerman123 wrote: »

There was a little bit of activity on the HD channel this morning. Nothing to get too excited about. The HD channel was on full colour bars since yesterday evening and this morning there was just a blank screen. The RTENL HD test card is now back with video testing.It doesn't look like anything new is going to be added to the line up at this stage. :mad:

:mad::mad: Forget about October 31st, we were sold a pup again, as usual. You can call it whatever kind of launch you want, the very least it should have is the four national channels, whatever about anything extra. It's a joke. We'll have to continue paying Sky, to get a "full" digital service of our four national channels. It could only happen in this electronics/broadcasting backwater of a country.

Macy0161

You're probably right that TV3 won't be on, but I'll be waiting until 31st before giving out tbh. It's more hope than expectation, but still...

glimmerman123

If TV3 was going to be added to the line up i am sure it would be at least epg testing with program info by now. The whole thing is turning out to be one big disaster. Looks like no TV3 and the news channel is a complete joke. How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board for the soft launch. :mad:

watty

It will only be serious if TV3 is not on it at Full Launch.

lgs 4

glimmerman123 wrote: »

If TV3 was going to be added to the line up i am sure it would be at least epg testing with program info by now. The whole thing is turning out to be one big disaster. Looks like no TV3 and the news channel is a complete joke. How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board for the soft launch. :mad:

why do you want tv3 on digital its really itv is cheaper carry itv programs when make there own if i want tv3 i watch itv hd

Macy0161

glimmerman123 wrote: »

If TV3 was going to be added to the line up i am sure it would be at least epg testing with program info by now. The whole thing is turning out to be one big disaster. Looks like no TV3 and the news channel is a complete joke. How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board for the soft launch. :mad:

I'm pretty sure TV3 has been tested, and was taken down.

excollier

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure TV3 has been tested, and was taken down.

It most certainly was.

galtee boy

watty wrote: »

It will only be serious if TV3 is not on it at Full Launch.

Watty, I disagree. Whether TV3 is ITV 1 in disguise or not, is irrelevant. A friend of mine is in the TV trade and already, customers are telling him that they won't buy a dtt box if TV3 is missing. Like it or not, they watch X Factor etc and no, they don't all have fta satellite and some don't want it either. Unless something happens in the next week, once more, something that should be important in Irish broadcasting , is turning out to be a joke, a non event and shabby. It will be like buying a jigsaw puzzle with a piece missing. I know its not the so called full launch, but soft, technical or otherwise launch, it should have at least the four national channels.

Tom Slick

glimmerman123 wrote: »

How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board . . .

RTE don't have to sell anything to the public. They'll still get the licence fee and analogue tv will eventually be switched off (and maybe TV3 along with it).

watty

galtee boy wrote: »

Watty, I disagree. Unless something happens in the next week, once more, something that should be important in Irish broadcasting , is turning out to be a joke, a non event and shabby. It will be like buying a jigsaw puzzle with a piece missing. I know its not the so called full launch, but soft, technical or otherwise launch, it should have at least the four national channels.

Switch off isn't till Oct 2012. I get TV3 and cancelled Sky years ago. No Cable in Countryside either.

TV3 *DOES* need to be on it at Full launch (Sometime after March 2011)
The BAI & Government need to do something. It's nothing to do with RTE NL or RTE.

TV3 doesn't need to be on it in November, though it would be better if they were. Ultimately TV3 are to blame and Regulator for not forcing them to be full Analogue coverage. It's a disgrace that their coverage is probably less than 80%. It's TV3's decision. Not RTE NL greed.

galtee boy

watty wrote: »

Switch off isn't till Oct 2012. I get TV3 and cancelled Sky years ago. No Cable in Countryside either.

TV3 *DOES* need to be on it at Full launch (Sometime after March 2011)
The BAI & Government need to do something. It's nothing to do with RTE NL or RTE.

TV3 doesn't need to be on it in November, though it would be better if they were. Ultimately TV3 are to blame and Regulator for not forcing them to be full Analogue coverage. It's a disgrace that their coverage is probably less than 80%. It's TV3's decision. Not RTE NL greed.

I agree it's not RTE NL's fault, but they will get "painted with the same brush" so to speak, as the miserly morons who run TV3, for launching a system that has one of the main players missing. Minister Ryan & Co are fault also, for not having TV3 pay up and play ball before October 31st. If someone doesnt want to pay Sky after October 31st, is it a case of a dtt box/mpeg4 tv, combined with a Foxsat HD Pvr and an analogue feed for TV3, in order to get the best reception possible of all channels ? Messy, is'nt it ?

The Cush

excollier wrote: »

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure TV3 has been tested, and was taken down.

It most certainly was.

TV3 disappeared from the engineering tests in early March.

Until the issue of dual distribution and transmission costs for TV3/(3e) on analogue and digital terrestrial during the DSO transition period (simulcast phase) between Oct and ASO are addressed I don't expect to see the channels there. This issue was raised by BAI Chairperson Bob Collins during the RTÉ/BAI DTT presentation to the Oireachtas Committee on Communications last July. There is no benefit only cost for commercial channel TV3 to launch on DTT now.

Two possible options could be
- TV3, TG4 and 3e to be carried free of charge on DTT until ASO (approx 2 years) with the few million euro costs borne by the Dept which could encourage a quicker take up of DTT as the transmitters come on line, the cost could be recovered from the Digital Dividend process. Initially Saorview/Saorsat needs TV3/3e more than TV3/3e needs DTT.
- The other option could be for TV3/3e (probably not TG4 - already state financed) to stop transmitting on analogue terrestrial and go digital terrestrial only at public national launch (Q2 2011?), killing two birds with one stone - increased terrestrial coverage (85% to 97.2%), reduced transmission and distribution costs (multiplex tarriff). This could of course depend on their licence conditions.

Mr. Bob Collins:
... Two other issues arise that are important and in which the authority will take an interest. One is the cost of transmission, especially in the simulcast phase between October of this year and the end of 2012 when analogue switch-off will take place, for TV3 and TG4 in particular, because they are in a qualitatively different position from the RTE channels given the nature of their relationship between the transmission network and RTE the broadcaster.

... The issue of cost for TV3 and TG4 was mentioned. There is a qualitative difference between these and the two RTE television channels. Simultaneous transmissions which are, to a certain extent, test transmissions will take place until the switchover, encouraging people to become accustomed to DTT while the information campaign is proceeding. The cost, for no real return in terms of access to additional viewers, is a consideration, to which some attention will be given.

watty

galtee boy wrote: »

I If someone doesnt want to pay Sky after October 31st, is it a case of a dtt box/mpeg4 tv, combined with a Foxsat HD Pvr and an analogue feed for TV3, in order to get the best reception possible of all channels ? Messy, is'nt it ?

No. Think in terms of next year. maybe May 2011. Full Public Launch whenever that is.

The Information campaign hasn't started.

Virtually every Digital TV that can do Saorview will receive TV3 Analogue from same aerial on same socket.

I cancelled Sky years ago.