Garda Armed Response Unit

Vivara

Have been in Cork City a lot the past number of days and see these cars around a lot:



Except, on the door, it says Garda Armed Response Unit.

In fact, yesterday, I saw TWO of these within the space of an hour. It could have been the same one, but there was a different garda driving during each instance and I saw them with a very small time span.

Are they really just driving around in case an armed incident occurs? If so, I feel much safer! It appears to me that they just roam the city and the outskirts.

Anyone know anything about them? They look really fancy.


Ed.

deRanged

Vivara wrote: »

Are they really just driving around in case an armed incident occurs?

basically. that's the RSU - the regional support unit. armed officers that back up the regular gardai. originally they were to be unarmed till they got a call, then they'd change into the armed gear and respond, but in Cork and Limerick afaik, they stay armed at all times.
they do also respond to normal i.e. non-armed calls.

I love the cars - 3 litre turbo diesel volvos I think - monsters of cars. I've seen them move at some speed around Cork.

Smcgie

Their Uniforms are horrible

SeaFields

deRanged wrote: »

I love the cars - 3 litre turbo diesel volvos I think - monsters of cars. I've seen them move at some speed around Cork.

Unreal cars I must say. One passed me on the Ballincollig bypass the other day. I was doing 75mph and it made me look like i was standing still.

The unit has proved its worth tho with that incident on Blarney street recently.

Vivara

SeaFields wrote: »

The unit has proved its worth tho with that incident on Blarney street recently.

Isn't the garda who fired like in trouble or something? I think their inexperience is obvious given that they have launched an investigation into WHY the garda shot yer man. (A separate investigation is also in progress relating to the possession of the suspect's firearm.) As well as that, the garda had to take a few days off to clear his head! My God.

Ed.

deRanged

Vivara wrote: »

Isn't the garda who fired like in trouble or something? I think their inexperience is obvious given that they have launched an investigation into WHY the garda shot yer man. (A separate investigation is also in progress relating to the possession of the suspect's firearm.) As well as that, the garda had to take a few days off to clear his head! My God.

Ed.

not at all, it's all standard procedure.

SeaFields

As deRanged said its standard procedure for a Garda Ombudsman investigation to be started for any incident like this.

I'll put it this way...there could have been a very different outcome if unarmed Gardai confronted that guy.

NoDice

To be honest I think gardai are going to get trigger happy now that they have guns, the incident on Blarney Street being an example of that. Hope to be proved wrong but that's my opinion at the moment.

I called the guards for support as there was a man trying to jump into the river one night near my house, my OH saw him and was literally just about holding onto the man under the arms as he was twice the weight so we defo needed help. About ten minutes later (no exaggeration) two armed guarda cars pulled up and spent another couple of seconds arming themselves before approaching the man, despite my boyfriend screaming at them to help him.

Mad night and the guards were the least help. Why did they send the armed guards like??

Owen

Max001 wrote: »

What sorta smg/machine pistol/whatever is that they carry? Looks a bit sh*t, as in very short range and small calibre. Also how the f**k are you supposed to draw a side arm thats at knee height,

The Gardaí aren't doing this off their own backs. They didn't make the decision on ordinance, or PPE. Because the Gardaí have never had a unit like this before, they consulted with the Germans who have, and who have a lot more experience. You can be damn sure that whatever equipment they have was chosen because it was the most reliable, efficient, and suitable for the task at hand. The training was gruelling too, 3 months IIRC.

NoDice wrote: »

To be honest I think gardai are going to get trigger happy now that they have guns, the incident on Blarney Street being an example of that.

Seriously? Trigger happy for shooting a man with a shotgun? If this was the USA, he'd have been shot without a moments hesitation. And I'd imagine if you were a Gard with a weapon and someone in front of you had a shotgun you'd take the same option too. Take out the threat, go home safe to your family at the end of your shift and not in a coffin.

NoDice wrote:

I called the guards for support as there was a man trying to jump into the river one night near my house ... two armed guarda cars pulled up and spent another couple of seconds arming themselves before approaching the man, despite my boyfriend screaming at them to help him.

Mad night and the guards were the least help. Why did they send the armed guards like??

They probably sent the armed Gards because they were the closest at hand. 10 minutes isn't an unreasonable response time, there aren't hundreds of thousands of Gardaí driving around in cars so they can be everywhere in under 3 minutes. They probably armed themselves because they're the armed gards. Their training probably has drilled into them to gear up any time they leave the car at all.

blubloblu

I'm not sure if I like the idea of armed patrols. Policemen with guns tend to have attitude problems.

NoDice

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Seriously? Trigger happy for shooting a man with a shotgun? If this was the USA, he'd have been shot without a moments hesitation. And I'd imagine if you were a Gard with a weapon and someone in front of you had a shotgun you'd take the same option too. Take out the threat, go home safe to your family at the end of your shift and not in a coffin.

That's true but this isn't the USA and not everyone is running around with guns. I do completely see your point tbh but I'm just hoping the guns don't become a solution to everything. Also no, if I was a garda and there was a dude with a shotgun (Unless the dude with the shotgun was specifically pointing the barrel at me and shouting "I'm going to blow your head off") I would think I'd have the training to find another solution. Negotiation maybe? Obv I'm not a garda but that's the way I see it. I also understand the threat but aren't armed gardai wearing protective vests? And if I, myself, had been trained with a gun and faced another man who had a gun and threatened to use it, I'd like to think I wouldn't necessarily shoot to kill.

They probably sent the armed Gards because they were the closest at hand. 10 minutes isn't an unreasonable response time, there aren't hundreds of thousands of Gardaí driving around in cars so they can be everywhere in under 3 minutes. They probably armed themselves because they're the armed gards. Their training probably has drilled into them to gear up any time they leave the car at all.

I live across the river from the Bridewell and it was a quiet week night. I used to really feel safe with the gardai tbh but there have been a few incidents recently where I have had to deal with them and I felt they didn't help.

Sorry for going off topic slightly.

NoDice

NoDice wrote: »

I live across the river from the Bridewell and it was a quiet week night. I used to really feel safe with the gardai tbh but there have been a few incidents recently where I have had to deal with them and I felt they didn't help.

Sorry for going off topic slightly.

Generally when you need one there won't be one coming, years back Dad had to deal with two scumbags in there twenties who were having a fight outside our house, Dad was coming in after a few pints and one of the dudes wanted to come in too to get away from the other prat. Dad wasn't too keen on that as me, the sister and mum were inside and also the dude was a total scanger. Iirc he claimed the other guy had a knife, mum rang the guards, they arrived about an hour and a half later. Dad had sorted it out himself in about 10 mins (he was mid 40s at the time but as hard as nails thankfully). He then had the pleasure of two suits in the living room for an hour the following day :rolleyes:


My view on the armed police is that more criminals will tool up accordingly.

GavRedKing

NoDice wrote: »

That's true but this isn't the USA and not everyone is running around with guns. I do completely see your point tbh but I'm just hoping the guns don't become a solution to everything. Also no, if I was a garda and there was a dude with a shotgun (Unless the dude with the shotgun was specifically pointing the barrel at me and shouting "I'm going to blow your head off") I would think I'd have the training to find another solution. Negotiation maybe? Obv I'm not a garda but that's the way I see it. I also understand the threat but aren't armed gardai wearing protective vests? And if I, myself, had been trained with a gun and faced another man who had a gun and threatened to use it, I'd like to think I wouldn't necessarily shoot to kill.

Serious? Your faced with a person who has a shotgun in a public place and he/she can kill or injure many, including yourself and you have the option of taking him down and you would try talk him out of dropping the gun?

The only reason this guy was shot, was it was the last option and or the Garda in question felt his actions required him to put the guy down, the ERU arent out to shot at people who they suspect are trouble, but to deal with serious incidents.

This was one of them, I fully condem the use of force in such incidents, if the case had being that a regular Garda patrol showed up and this guy shot a Garda and killed or seriously injured the Garda their would have been uproar as to why the ERU wasnt sent into deal with the guy.

This day and age the criminals are going to be able to get guns and weapons if they want to, and having a unit like the ERU isnt going to deter them much, but it means that if somebody wnats to start firing off shots or threating people the Garda have the means to deal with it.

NoDice

RoverJames wrote: »

Generally when you need one there won't be one coming, years back Dad had to deal with two scumbags in there twenties who were having a fight outside our house, Dad was coming in after a few pints and one of the dudes wanted to come in too to get away from the other prat. Dad wasn't too keen on that as me, the sister and mum were inside and also the dude was a total scanger. Iirc he claimed the other guy had a knife, mum rang the guards, they arrived about an hour and a half later. Dad had sorted it out himself in about 10 mins (he was mid 40s at the time but as hard as nails thankfully). He then had the pleasure of two suits in the living room for an hour the following day :rolleyes:


My view on the armed police is that more criminals will tool up accordingly.

An hour and a half? Man. Like I want to like them and support them, I do. But every time I've had to deal with them I'm just more and more apprehensive about calling them again.

I had a slightly similar situation, I think I may have posted this somewhere before, where a guy off his face on something was jumping around naked on the busy road outside our window. He was kicking cars, throwing life rings into the river, shouting at people on the street and jumping in front of cars. We're on the ground floor so when we looked out the window to see what was happening he saw us and jumped right onto our railing in front of the window and gave us the worst look. He stayed there just staring for a good few minutes. It was genuinely the scariest position I've ever been in! This was the same week the two polish fellas were stabbed down the road and there were three burglaries in the area so I was super paranoid and scared.

Rang the local station anyway firstly to let them know he was causing trouble on the street etc and secondly because he wouldn't leave our window and we didn't know what to do. The lady actually sighed (which put me off right away) and started asking loads of ridiculous questions like "where do you think he came from" and "do you have a car on the street". asked all of my personal details and then asked for my OH to come on the phone so he could do the same. Then she said to keep an eye on him, asked which way we think he'd go and said they'll send someone along. Never saw the gardai that night and your man walked off towards the North Mall. :eek:

Chocolate teapots unfortunately.

SeaFields

RoverJames wrote: »

My view on the armed police is that more criminals will tool up accordingly.

But we don't have an armed police force. We have a regional support unit which stay in their capacity as ordinary Gardai until a situation arises where their extra skills and equipment are need.

To be honest I think criminals have been proven already to have firearms which make anything, even that the armed Gardai carry, look like water pistols. Shur wasn't their two rocket launchers found with a large drugs haul a couple of weeks ago :eek:

I don't think the RSU where conceived to deal with the likes of what happened on Blarney street (it was just lucky they were able to get there) but with the ruthless gangland criminals, who have shown their willingness to kill anyone who gets in their way. Its a matter of time that Gardai stumble across a gangland figure who is willing to shoot at them (just like they are willing to shoot their own, that 17 apprentice plumber, that girl having a houseparty in Dublin or that ex-wife of a known criminal). I just hope its the RSU that are the ones who are there and can deal with the situation.

NoDice

gavredking wrote: »

Serious? Your faced with a person who has a shotgun in a public place and he/she can kill or injure many, including yourself and you have the option of taking him down and you would try talk him out of dropping the gun?

You either didn't read my post properly or fully. I said it depends on the situation and nobody but the people who were on the scene at that particular event knows what happened exactly. I also did not say I did not agree with what that garda did nor did I say I condemn him for what he did.

I said there are other options. With proper training you can negotiate and there isn't always a need to shoot to kill. I myself would prefer to injure the person but not so that it is fatal. I also stated I am not a garda so the possibility of that situation arising is fairly slim and tbh alot of people saying they'd gun someone down is they were posing a threat probably wouldn't if it came to that.

I can't imagine what the garda at that event in the pub on Blarney Street is feeling but what I said is not tied directly to that event. I used that as an example for my other point that imo they will become trigger happy. Not so eloquently said but forgive my exaggerations. I think Roverjames put it a bit better. Criminals will tool up as they see relevant. The first comment about "if this was the USA there would be no hesitation regarding shooting a man with a gun" is what I'm afraid of happening. Ireland will surely become just like America where the criminals have guns, the law enforcement have guns and the old lady running the local newsagent has a gun.

Hogzy

tbh Armed gangs in Ireland have had control for over society for too long. Limerick has been a joke over the last few years. Its good to know that the guns the Gardai are carrying arent just used to scare monger the scum of Ireland. The fact that they are trained to use them and are willing to use them will more than likely make any idiot with a gun think twice about confronting the Gardai with a weapon.

To those people arguing that the Gardai should not have shot the guy. What did ye expect them to do, he was pointing a loaded shot gun at innocent bystanders. TBH if they didnt shoot him and he ended up shooting one of the bystanders that would be a much worse situation. Id rather see a Gun Wielding Maniac dead than an innocent person who went to their local for an evening pint.

GavRedKing

NoDice wrote: »

You either didn't read my post properly or fully. I said it depends on the situation and nobody but the people who were on the scene at that particular event knows what happened exactly. I also did not say I did not agree with what that garda did nor did I say I condemn him for what he did.

I said there are other options. With proper training you can negotiate and there isn't always a need to shoot to kill. I myself would prefer to injure the person but not so that it is fatal. I also stated I am not a garda so the possibility of that situation arising is fairly slim and tbh alot of people saying they'd gun someone down is they were posing a threat probably wouldn't if it came to that.

I can't imagine what the garda at that event in the pub on Blarney Street is feeling but what I said is not tied directly to that event. I used that as an example for my other point that imo they will become trigger happy. Not so eloquently said but forgive my exaggerations. I think Roverjames put it a bit better. Criminals will tool up as they see relevant. The first comment about "if this was the USA there would be no hesitation regarding shooting a man with a gun" is what I'm afraid of happening. Ireland will surely become just like America where the criminals have guns, the law enforcement have guns and the old lady running the local newsagent has a gun.

Guns in America though are far more widely availabel so as you put it, yes an old lady in theory can have a gun as if its in the US constitution that she can own one.

Guns here are very, very hard to get a license for, any serious crime on your record and you will not get one, and even at that your limited to either a rifle or shotgun, at the end of the day they are both guns but unlike America were nearly anything tou can think of or have seen in the movies can be purchased as long as you have the $$$$$.

I agree with your point on the negotation but the point of that happening had gone by then as this guy seemed to have gone in to the pub looking for an indiviudal, most negoiation situations would arise from a person taking hostages and or robbing a place and looking to negoiate his his/her way out, but this wasnt the case in this incident, unfortunately a person was shot but at least it wasnt a Garda or an innocent person in the pub.

NoDice

gavredking wrote: »

Guns in America though are far more widely availabel so as you put it, yes an old lady in theory can have a gun as if its in the US constitution that she can own one.

Guns here are very, very hard to get a license for, any serious crime on your record and you will not get one, and even at that your limited to either a rifle or shotgun, at the end of the day they are both guns but unlike America were nearly anything tou can think of or have seen in the movies can be purchased as long as you have the $$$$$.

I agree with your point on the negotation but the point of that happening had gone by then as this guy seemed to have gone in to the pub looking for an indiviudal, most negoiation situations would arise from a person taking hostages and or robbing a place and looking to negoiate his his/her way out, but this wasnt the case in this incident, unfortunately a person was shot but at least it wasnt a Garda or an innocent person in the pub.

I'm really not arguing for the point that the garda shouldn't have shot the guy. I agree that he did the right thing in that situation but would it have been different if the Garda had better training maybe?

I just think there is already a bad impression about the gardai in general and now that some of them have been armed, that impression is just worsening for alot of people including myself.

I agree that we are surely safer now that they have guns as well as the druglords etc but I haven't felt safe when I've needed them before in the first place, with or without guns.

Hogzy

NoDice wrote: »

I'm really not arguing for the point that the garda shouldn't have shot the guy. I agree that he did the right thing in that situation but would it have been different if the Garda had better training maybe?

What could better training add to the situation and do you actually know anything about the RSU training Regime or are you just saying they need better training because thats your only argument.

I just think there is already a bad impression about the gardai in general and now that some of them have been armed, that impression is just worsening for alot of people including myself.

Dont agree with this. I think the impression has been that the gardai havnt been doing enough and as said by Roverjames above it took over an hour to respond to a public disturbance. I think what happened with the RSU at that pub on blarney street has shown that the gardai are now trained to make extremely tough decisions and face all the consequences after they have made their decisions. Fair play to them they have my full support.

I agree that we are surely safer now that they have guns as well as the druglords etc but I haven't felt safe when I've needed them before in the first place, with or without guns.

Well thats just a personal thing and has nothing to do with the arguement to be fair

I also think this thread should be moved here

Owen

NoDice wrote: »

I'm really not arguing for the point that the garda shouldn't have shot the guy. I agree that he did the right thing in that situation but would it have been different if the Garda had better training maybe?

Those Gardaí had _the_ best training available in Europe.

You also said sure they'd be fine, they'd bulletproof vests, they should have negotiated. Unless someone's managed to develop a bulletproof head overnight, the Gardaí did the right thing.

Criminals have been armed since I was a child. I always heard of stories where banks were robbed using sawn off shotguns. And the best the Gards had were batons. Even when something big kicked off, the Gardaí would need to contact the armed forces and wait. Then wait a bit more, and then when all that waiting was done, wait a teensy bit more.

The idea of this unit is that for situations where the criminal is armed, they're called in to stop the threat to public life ASAP. They hope all they have to do is show up and the show of force will make someone see sense, but if they don't, they have the training to carry out their jobs professionally. There's only a handful of Gardaí who've been armed, so there's no fear that we'll have Seargant Schwarzenegger blowing everything up in a few weeks. Those who have been trained have almost certainly been psychologically assesed that they can carry out the job professionally without resorting to the use of firearms unless absolutely necessary.

Hogzy

And just to add. This isnt the first armed encounter they have ever had. THey have had loads of them, some reported by press some not. So brandishing them as trigger happy is wrong.

NoDice

It isn't the first encounter no but apparently it's the first time they've had to use such force. Again, not saying he was wrong just to reiterate, just stating what the media is claiming.

The RSU were trained to the same standard as the ERU which is very high. Yes I've read alot about it but I'll be the first to admit I'm not an expert. I also did not state that their training was ineffective or bad in any way, I was suggesting maybe some sort of negotiation training may prevent Ireland becoming like America.

I fully support the idea of the RSU and think it's a great addition to the law enforcement we already have. My opinion however about guns being used as the solution to crime however stands. What the guarda did in Blarney street is even commendable seeing as the story goes that the criminal brandishing the gun refused to put the weapon down. However that is one situation and my opinion continues to be that I hope this doesn't desensitise the fact that they're armed and I hope that they don't become trigger happy. You're right I was wrong to say they already were. Bad wording on my part and as I said already forgive my exaggeration.

Interesting thread here too - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055541932

And what was said about bulletproof heads? No need to get smart about it really.

NoDice

Also the RSU have taken down alot of criminals who have been armed with tasers. That is an amazing achievement and it's news like that that needs to get out. Unfortunately the shooting in Blarney has been the biggest coverage in Cork about the RSU.

Hogzy

Hogzy wrote: »

And just to add. This isnt the first armed encounter they have ever had. THey have had loads of them, some reported by press some not. So brandishing them as trigger happy is wrong.

No one brandished them as trigger happy

PaintDoctor

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Those who have been trained have almost certainly been psychologically assesed that they can carry out the job professionally without resorting to the use of firearms unless absolutely necessary.

My idea of absolutely necessary is shot gun dude pointing it at someone and going for the trigger, maybe this was the case in Shandon Street, maybe not. If the training is the best that would be the case. Also were the bystanders not out of the pub at the time ?

NoDice

Hogzy wrote: »

And just to add. This isnt the first armed encounter they have ever had. THey have had loads of them, some reported by press some not. So brandishing them as trigger happy is wrong.

I thanked this post because as I said in my last post I do agree with you here. I didn't mean however to word it that way (just go a bit mad with words as you can tell by my old lady with a gun comment - gets me in the heap of trouble! :rolleyes:) and just want to make the point I do support the idea of the RSU.

Not looking for a fight either btw as I always welcome someone else's opinion and will be the first to admit when I am wrong.

so there's no fear that we'll have Seargant Schwarzenegger blowing everything up in a few weeks.

Loved your point here because that is my fear. Obv not so over the top as that but that's how I would have put it also.

Well thats just a personal thing and has nothing to do with the arguement to be fair

I think it has as this all started out as opinions and personal experiences with the gardai. I am apprehensive about the RSU as a unit because I haven't had any positive experiences with the gardai in the first place. So I think it has relevance.

StereoLove

Yes I've seen these cars around too. Passed on as I was heading to Wilton the other day

Owen

The guy had - I believe - discharged a shot into the ceiling. That means all bets are off. Either which way, he would have been asked to disarm (Negotiated with if you will), and if he refuses to comply with that, any person with a modicum of sense would render him ineffective. Gardaí may have bulletproof vests, but their heads, arms, legs, pelvis are all still valid targets. We've become desensitised by hollywood movies where people get shot in the arm, wince for 5 minutes, and carry on like nothing happened. If I was a Gard and someone was waving a shotgun they'd recently fired about, I'd have no hesitations in making sure I got home safe to my family at the end of my shift.

NoDice

RoverJames wrote: »

No one brandished them as trigger happy

I did in the beginning but I did not mean it to come across as "that is what I believe". I actually meant that was my fear and was not expecting someone to tear apart what I typed for the sake of an argument. I have already stated I was wrong there and said what I meant yet it was brought up again.

RoverJames wrote: »

My idea of absolutely necessary is shot gun dude pointing it at someone and going for the trigger, maybe this was the case in Shandon Street, maybe not. If the training is the best that would be the case. Also were the bystanders not out of the pub at the time ?

There are so many stories regarding the situation and as I said in a previous post, the only people who really know what happened are the people who were there. I agree with you too here. I also made that point that if he was directly being threatened or if innocent bystanders were directly being threatened then yes maybe shoot. Another option would have been to injure him therefore making him incapable of firing the weapon but then again in a perfect world this wouldn't have happened in the first place.