Irish people with English accents in the 60's/70's

Blisterman

Whenever I see old news footage, of Ireland from the 60's or 70's, such as in Reeling in the Years, there always seems to be quite a few Irish people, especially politicians and journalists who have quite strong English accents.

Was this a common thing back then? And how did it come about?

who the fug

Who are you talking about exactly?

Fratton Fred

I know a few "Older" people in my area who sound very "English" (in a David Norris sort of way). They were all either packed off to boarding/finishing school in England or went to a posh school where talking "correctly" was encouraged.

This might be the reason.

deman

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know a few "Older" people in my area who sound very "English" (in a David Norris sort of way). They were all either packed off to boarding/finishing school in England or went to a posh school where talking "correctly" was encouraged.

This might be the reason.

I agree. But I wouldn't call it an English accent though. It would have been more of an upper-class Irish accent.

And there used to be quite a few Mrs O'Buckets around thinking they were upper-class.

Fratton Fred

A posh accent is probably the best way to describe it. I don't know anybody in England who actually speaks like that.

brianthebard

A lot of lecturers talk like that, especially if they went to an English Uni at some point. I think it was the equivalent of a D4 accent now.

DublinWriter

Very interesting. I've noticed that a lot with old footage.

There used to be an old saying that went 'put a Dublin man in front of a microphone and he'll try to sound English, but a country man in front of a microphone and he'll try to sound American."

A lot of the RTE continuity announcers had very clipped 'Oxbridge' accents right up to the 1960's.

Also a lot of the old Dublin music-hall actors affected very English accents in the 1960's - especially yer man who played Dinny in Glenroe.

It died out in the 1970's. Bono sounds very English to me in a lot of the early U2 stuff (Songs for boys, Electric Co., etc) and you also had bands like the Freshmen trying to pass themselves off as cockneys.

caroj

Don't forget Charlie Kelly in Fair City. He must have taken elocution lessons!

MarchDub

Believe it or not but back in the day when I went to school in Dublin part of the curriculum was elocution lessons. Seriously. This was both at Primary and Secondary level. There was even an inspection once a year - and I remember in the secondary school the "speech inspectors" came from England - and on an individual basis we had to recite certain passages from prose and poetry.

Correct speech and pronunciation were considered part of education then. Probably a hangover from other times...

Ah, the good old days...

caroj

When I was in college, a classmate told me she spent many long hours taking elocution lessons to lose her accent - she's from the Kilkenny .She was almost ashamed of her accent.

I'm proud and certainly not ashamed of my waaaterford accent

UltimateMale

Well if you watch some replays about children's programmes on BBC in the 60's etc, you'll notice they voice overs in say Bill and Ben the Flower Pot Men :o:o are very posh accents, frightfully grand you know.

However from about the mid 70's that Geordie, Cockney, mid lands etc accents were deemed suitable enough to appear on Children's TV. So it wasn't just us. I'd imagine the same may have happened even in America where strong local accents like Brooklyn, Boston etc wouldn't have been deemed 'proper'

caroj

I do believe even HRH Prince William of Wales does not speak 'the Queen's English' but speak something called estuary English, which is not as posh seemingly.

Poor Christine Bleakly gets crusified by some of the loyal readers of the Daily Mail in their comments section for her 'awful' accent, they just cannot understand her and it 'grates' on their nerves. Me thinks they're just jealous

InTheTrees

There's also the "anglo irish".

We're a peculiar little sub group. A bunch of eccentric leftovers. I know quite a few who sound completely British but have barely set foot in the place.

Judgement Day

InTheTrees wrote: »

There's also the "anglo irish".

We're a peculiar little sub group. A bunch of eccentric leftovers. I know quite a few who sound completely British but have barely set foot in the place.

I have the video and the t-shirt! A Paddy in England, and if I had a Euro for everytime I have been asked am I on holiday over here. I have lived here for almost all of my 51 years - is surgery possible?

keryl

Bryan Dobson is one of those with that accent, it's not English by the way.

bigbadbear

See it comes from the history of Ireland and particularly Dublin that the wealthy people actually were from britain. So, as is human nature, society likes to impersonate or be similar to the people we aspire to. This is why certain types of people today still use this way of speaking and others deliberately speak with a thick Irish accent.

Notice how loads of 13-18 year olds, especially the posher ones, speak with a Californian accent (Thanks MTV, and the Hills)*








*Sharpens axe

InTheTrees

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have the video and the t-shirt! A Paddy in England, and if I had a Euro for everytime I have been asked am I on holiday over here. I have lived here for almost all of my 51 years - is surgery possible?

Yup. English in Ireland, Irish in England.

Which may explain why I live in the US...

fontanalis

keryl wrote: »

Bryan Dobson is one of those with that accent, it's not English by the way.

The overinflated full of self importance accent?

Dudess

DublinWriter wrote: »

Very interesting. I've noticed that a lot with old footage.

Yeah, it's a real pre 70s thing all right - I agree they're not overall "English" accents, but posh Irish ones, and certainly strongly influenced by English plumminess.

MarchDub wrote: »

Believe it or not but back in the day when I went to school in Dublin part of the curriculum was elocution lessons. Seriously. This was both at Primary and Secondary level. There was even an inspection once a year - and I remember in the secondary school the "speech inspectors" came from England - and on an individual basis we had to recite certain passages from prose and poetry.

Correct speech and pronunciation were considered part of education then.

Yeah but that's not necessarily = posh accent.

keryl wrote: »

Bryan Dobson is one of those with that accent, it's not English by the way.

Nah, the pre 70s newsreader/continuity announcer one is WAY posher than Bryan Dobson's - I'd personally consider his a fairly neutral accent.

Blisterman

Had to google Bryan Dobson. Yeah, the newsreader guy.

But no that's not the accent I'm talking about.
Look at 6:45 for what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-8UTUVwHro

ejmaztec

bigbadbear wrote: »

This is why certain types of people today still use this way of speaking and others deliberately speak with a thick Irish accent.

Kevin Myers obviously started out with an English accent, because he was born and educated there, presumably until he got into UCD. His original accent has obviously picked up a lilt over the years since, so I don't think that his can be used as an example.

The old-style RTE folks seemed to emulate their BBC contemporaries, but when the BBC started allowing people with UK regional accents to get their faces in front of a microphone (in the 60s), the posh accents weren't as predominant.

I'm not saying that RTE followed the Beeb, but it does seem a bit of a coincidence that, soon afterwards, RTE presenters started to sound more Irish.

..then again, there are people like Brian Dobson, or Brian Dawbson, as I call him (e.g. cross becomes crawss).

InTheTrees

Thinking back to the early days of RTE tv, I imagine they would have done a lot of hiring of people with tv experience from the UK.

Oafley Jones

caroj wrote: »

I do believe even HRH Prince William of Wales does not speak 'the Queen's English' but speak something called estuary English, which is not as posh seemingly.

Weirdly, my aunt-in-law's parents would have looked down on the Windsors as beneath them class-wise and made sure their daughter had the "correct" English accent even though she spent her childhood in India.

InTheTrees

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Weirdly, my aunt-in-law's parents would have looked down on the Windsors as beneath them class-wise

The windsors? A bunch of german and greek social climbers.

Judgement Day

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Weirdly, my aunt-in-law's parents would have looked down on the Windsors as beneath them class-wise and made sure their daughter had the "correct" English accent even though she spent her childhood in India.

A bit off topic but given that Queen Elizabeth II's can trace her British lineage back to the House of Wessex in the 7th century your aunt-in-laws parents must have had some breeding.

http://www.britroyals.com/wessex.htm

MarchDub

Blisterman wrote: »

Had to google Bryan Dobson. Yeah, the newsreader guy.

But no that's not the accent I'm talking about.
Look at 6:45 for what I mean.

That's Noel Browne speaking on the video - he spent a large part of his childhood in England.

jonsnow

caroj wrote: »

I'm certainly not ashamed of my waaaterford accent

well you should be;)

Exile 1798

I don't know it if it's best described as an English accent or an attempt at propriety for broadcast purposes.

If you listen to old newsreel from Ireland, England, Canada, Australia and even to a lesser extent America there's a remarkable similarity in the style of speech employed despite those countries varied accents.

DeValera's speech is particularly interesting. I wouldn't say it's English or posh but rather a very properly grafted Irish accent used to convey a sense of authority.

Emme

DublinWriter wrote: »

Bono sounds very English to me in a lot of the early U2 stuff (Songs for boys, Electric Co., etc) and you also had bands like the Freshmen trying to pass themselves off as cockneys.

That's because Bono is posher than he'd like us to think. He went to a posh school on the Northside called Mount Temple.