AIRGUNS YOUR VIEWS ON THEM.

guns4fun

Iwas wondering what your views are on airgun licencing here.
Was in the U.K. a few weeks ago and went into a shop that sold them and was surprised to see that they are available up to 12 ftlb for rifles and 6 ftlbs pistol without a licence.
The only thing we can get without licence is those low powered airsoft guns,however airsoft guns in the uk have to be brightly colored so as not to look like a real firearm.
Even though the laws there in relation to airguns are fairly strict they are licence free to anyone over 18 years old.
Would you like to see that here or do you agree with our laws???
I would like to see them available with just permission from the super,the same as replicas and blank firers and not have to go through the hassle of club membership and full licence fees.
What are you thoughts on this??

Sparks

We've asked for deregulation of airguns before, and have it to a degree (the legal mechanism that allows for airsoft over here is the same mechanism that allows for airguns to be bought without licence in the UK, the sole difference is the limit on muzzle energy).

The 12 ft/lb for air rifles in the UK is a tad high as a limit perhaps; but the standard 7.5 joule limit that seems to apply in most other EU states would be perfect for our needs. It would allow the Pony club, the Modern Pentathlon and the ISSF sports to take off as a first step into target shooting for youngsters, it would give us a far larger base for the sport, and just about every other sporting discipline in target shooting would also benefit as their takeup rates would increase a few years after the deregulation as people moved from airgun shooting into other forms of shooting.

There would be an argument for a higher limit though - in that paintball markers are basicly 15 joule airguns. But to be honest, I think they should have a special clause of their own as they're so different in design from other kinds of firearm.

guns4fun

The owner of that shop told me that airgun competition is very big in the uk because of the law and there are loads of indoor ranges/clubs available also.
I do know that most shooters here just go for a .22 rimfire instead of the air rifles because of the laws and most airgunners who want to just do casual target shooting will not pay the range fees for the sole use of airguns.
Most people here who do shoot airguns have other target firearms and are club members but joining a club or range for an airgun only seems to be very rare indeed.
Would love to see those indoor airgun ranges here,great for starting off or keeping up airguns and going on to some of the bigger diciplines.
Something the F.C.P. should keep chasing.

Sparks

guns4fun wrote: »

joining a club or range for an airgun only seems to be very rare indeed

Except for those in the Pony Club (who shoot tetrathlon with airguns) and the Modern Pentathlon association (who shoot with air pistols) and the UCD rifle club (who shoot airguns almost exclusively) and WTSC (who also shoot airguns almost exclusively) and DURC (who are split about 50-50 between airguns and smallbore). Collectively, those aren't small numbers but they're often overlooked for some reason.

daveob007

I was in the UK a few years ago with the family,pontins holiday camp in wales and they had an indoor air rifle range that residents could use.
It was all done under the supervision of a range intructor and was very safe.
Just goes to show the difference in attitude we have towards anything that looks like a gun.
I would like to see them licence free here but instead of garda permission the gun would be registered to the buyer and these details kept on a database,,that would rule out the gurriers and idiots buying them.
Its a great sport and pastime,,pity about our oppressive laws here.

Mits

I have nothing against the air guns them self. But I don't think they should be freely available or unlicensed as the majority of people interested in these items will abuse them.

They should be kept for sport only.

I had a bad experience last year when my 7year old daughter was shot in the back by an air gun. There was a group of 12year old taking shots with it. I don't see any reason for this items to be available except for sport and under supervision.

daveob007

Mits wrote: »

I have nothing against the air guns them self. But I don't think they should be freely available or unlicensed as the majority of people interested in these items will abuse them.

They should be kept for sport only.

I had a bad experience last year when my 7year old daughter was shot in the back by an air gun. There was a group of 12year old taking shots with it. I don't see any reason for this items to be available except for sport and under supervision.

Agree with you on that but we are talking about genuine users here and not gurriers and thats why there should be some control over them, but not class them as firearms the same as a shotgun or rifle.
The permission from the super or a registered system would sort that.
The laws in the uk do not allow under 18s to own them and if you are seen in public with one the penalties are severe.
Because of these new laws the misuse of airguns has dropped by a large percentage.

Sparks

Agreed - we control things like alcohol the same way.

johngalway

Too many muppets would use them to shoot anything that moved if they were unlicenced. That is leaving aside the vast majority who would use them responsibly.

Mits

Sorry lads I think the muppets are in the majority and not the responsible users.

I used to shoot rifles myself in the FCA and a gun club and I think it is a great sport. Would also love to see more archery in Ireland. But it has to be controlled.

But unlicensed air guns would worry me.

Sparks

And yet we managed to not bother calling any form of airgun a firearm until 1964, regardless of muzzle energy...

Mits

Sparks wrote: »

Agreed - we control things like alcohol the same way.

I don't think our track record on controlling alcohol will win you a lot points.

guns4fun

Mits wrote: »

Sorry lads I think the muppets are in the majority and not the responsible users.

I used to shoot rifles myself in the FCA and a gun club and I think it is a great sport. Would also love to see more archery in Ireland. But it has to be controlled.

But unlicensed air guns would worry me.

Me too some sort of basic control is needed but not the overkill we have.
Permission from your super would rule out the idiots getting them and causing havoc.
I am surprised that compound bows escaped the new laws,one of those with a metal tip can cause serious damage.
Was in a shop in Limerick a while back and 3 scumbags were buying one of these with aluminium tips.
The owner asked no questions,just wanted to make a quick sale.
If he was required by law to take their names they probably would not have bought it.

Sparks

Mits wrote: »

I don't think our track record on controlling alcohol will win you a lot points.

Actually, the point was that if all we require to control alcohol is a simple (and often unenforced) age limit on sales, despite the tremendous amount of damage it does every year, then forcing people who want to shoot airguns (which are enormously safer by comparison) to go through the full rigors of the current firearms licencing system is, bluntly, daft.

Besides which, it's not like we don't have a dozen proven systems to copy if we wanted to - take France or Germany or almost any EU state as your example.

guns4fun

Sparks wrote: »

Actually, the point was that if all we require to control alcohol is a simple (and often unenforced) age limit on sales, despite the tremendous amount of damage it does every year, then forcing people who want to shoot airguns (which are enormously safer by comparison) to go through the full rigors of the current firearms licencing system is, bluntly, daft.

+1 also tobacco control and traffic offences,,ie mobile phone use while driving is rampant.

daveob007

guns4fun wrote: »

Me too some sort of basic control is needed but not the overkill we have.
Permission from your super would rule out the idiots getting them and causing havoc.
I am surprised that compound bows escaped the new laws,one of those with a metal tip can cause serious damage.
Was in a shop in Limerick a while back and 3 scumbags were buying one of these with aluminium tips.
The owner asked no questions,just wanted to make a quick sale.
If he was required by law to take their names they probably would not have bought it.

were these guys ROBIN HOOD or ROBBING HOODIES????

Odysseus

Personally I would like to see the UK model over here. I have a .22 air rifle it was my first one, then got a shotgun and a .17hrm. TBH the licence procedure put me off for years. I would have had one a long time ago if it wasn't for that. I know of lots of cases of them being brought in the North.

So like all firearms those who want them and are likely to use them for other than sporting reasons have them or can get them if they want them.

mallards

It's not easy to get an Airgun in the North. It is classed as a firearm also and my certificate has been away four months now waiting for one to be added.
I wanted it to control small vermin around the release pens and by this rate the pheasants will already have been raised and flown the coop!
I wouldn't be comfortable with every 18 year old being able to pick one of the shelf and start using it but there should at least be a registration and fee including a garda/police check for an air rifle shooting under 12ft/lbs and those who have an existing firearms certificate can get an unmodified one (18ft/lbs) simply written onto their cert by the dealer.

Mallards

johngalway

Careful what ye wish for lads. The UK model also includes police checks on lands to determine if they're suitable for a certain calibre, or not, if you have a closed ticket.

Odysseus

johngalway wrote: »

Careful what ye wish for lads. The UK model also includes police checks on lands to determine if they're suitable for a certain calibre, or not, if you have a closed ticket.

I know what you mean John, I was speaking only in relation to air guns. Its through my work not personal friends, but in the area I work in a good number of lads have air rifles and no license. It would not be difficult to pick one up, if a person wanted, though the same can be said about anything going from heroin to a glock if you where so inclined.

Pkiernan

My opinion is that licenses should not be required for firearms of any type (nor do I think that an airgun is a firearm).

If a person can prove themselves responsible, they should be granted a general license allowing them to own any calibre or type of gun, from pistol to .50 BMG rifle.

I don't need a different license for each car I own, nor do I need a different type of license for a 1 litre engined Micra or a 6 litre Aston Martin DB9.

daveob007

Pkiernan wrote: »

My opinion is that licenses should not be required for firearms of any type (nor do I think that an airgun is a firearm).

If a person can prove themselves responsible, they should be granted a general license allowing them to own any calibre or type of gun, from pistol to .50 BMG rifle.

I don't need a different license for each car I own, nor do I need a different type of license for a 1 litre engined Micra or a 6 litre Aston Martin DB9.

To say that firearms should not be licenced is crazy
how do you prove that you are a responsible person without garda checks safety records and so on.
If that were the case how many people would get firearms just for the craic and abuse them?? I shudder to think of the outcome if that were the case.
However I do agree that airguns are not firearms but still need some basic control over who has them.
As for any calibre or type of gun,,what reason do you need to own a .50cal bmg or full auto ak47 etc.
The mind boggles.

tac foley

Well, here in UK no archery tackle store would sell a compound bow to anybody without seeing club membership. In fact, most dealers have a discount agreement with local clubs, so that producing your club membership card gets you a bit off - well worth it when the price of an average competition compound bow - without sights and all the doo-dads - is around £800-900.

Betcha the example quoted here was NOT a FITA or FTAA-approved dealership....

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoraion Fund

Grizzly 45

am surprised that compound bows escaped the new laws,one of those with a metal tip can cause serious damage.
Was in a shop in Limerick a while back and 3 scumbags were buying one of these with aluminium tips.
The owner asked no questions,just wanted to make a quick sale.
If he was required by law to take their names they probably would not have bought it.

For the simple reason a bow &arrow ,does not store the force to be released on demand by a mechanical action.IOW unlike a crossbow or gun the mechanism needed to propel the arrow or bullet is absent on a B&A.
So ,how will you rob a bank ??The moment you reach for the money,you have disarmed yourself,by releasing the tension on the bowstring!
Nor is a B&A very concealable for nefarious deeds.Unless you are either Robin Hood,Rambo or the brothers from the Dukes of Hazzard TV seris,it isnt a very practical proposition as weaponary for the up and coming scumbag in the 21st century.:rolleyes:
It will proably aldo fail the 4Joule test,as I reported once here in Limerick a head shop that was flogging pistol Xbows to a contact in the Gardai.The Gardai said they had raided the shop about these and had to return them,as they were below the 4 joule regulation.Despite them being classified as firearms under our gun laws.
Go figure..

Pkiernan

daveob007 wrote: »

To say that firearms should not be licenced is crazy
how do you prove that you are a responsible person without garda checks safety records and so on.
If that were the case how many people would get firearms just for the craic and abuse them?? I shudder to think of the outcome if that were the case.
However I do agree that airguns are not firearms but still need some basic control over who has them.
As for any calibre or type of gun,,what reason do you need to own a .50cal bmg or full auto ak47 etc.
The mind boggles.

I dont see a reason why an individual gun needs to be licensed, surely just the gun owner.

As to "the outcome", I have 19 pistols, rifles and shotguns in my safe in my house in California. I have never even gotten a speeding ticket.

I have one rifle here in Ireland, and pose no more of a safety threat to anyone than my 80 year old auntie.

Having a seperate piece of paper for each firearm does not make anyone more or less "safe". I realise that Ireland is not the US, but my argument is still valid.

As to why anyone would own a .50 BMG, they are fun to shoot, but to be honest too pricey for me.
To quote the guy on Sky News - "what do people need shotguns for - to shoot bunny rabbits??"

daveob007

Pkiernan wrote: »

I dont see a reason why an individual gun needs to be licensed, surely just the gun owner.

As to "the outcome", I have 19 pistols, rifles and shotguns in my safe in my house in California. I have never even gotten a speeding ticket.

I have one rifle here in Ireland, and pose no more of a safety threat to anyone than my 80 year old auntie.

Having a seperate piece of paper for each firearm does not make anyone more or less "safe". I realise that Ireland is not the US, but my argument is still valid.

As to why anyone would own a .50 BMG, they are fun to shoot, but to be honest too pricey for me.



I took you up wrong on your post. apologies, thought you meant that firearms of all types should be licence free.
as for the one piece of paper,would be better to licence the user and not each gun,just like in the uk where a firearm cert covers all available firearms and lasts for 5 years.

Grizzly 45

as for the one piece of paper,would be better to licence the user and not each gun,just like in the uk where a firearm cert covers all available firearms and lasts for 5 years.

OR the other option..Is we make it very stringent with written,oral and practical tests to own ANY type of firearm here,and then however you can liscense any and as many as you want ,and you have the liscense for LIFE! You can only lose it then thru reckless stupidity.IE endangering somone else,DUI for as long as your ban lasts.If you cant be entrusted to drive a car while drunk,can you really be entrusted with a gun??

Would that be a better option,to arbitary decisions by a person in power,who might or might not know anything about firearms and have a personal grudge against them,with shifting legal goalposts and a revenue gathering exercise every three years for the state??
Personally the former is becoming a good option these days.So long as the Irish Govt isnt involved in setting it up!:eek:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So ,how will you rob a bank ??The moment you reach for the money,you have disarmed yourself,by releasing the tension on the bowstring!

It's a good thing bank robbers never ever ever work in teams of two or more then!

Grizzly 45

NITPICKER!!!Always have to find fault with things dontya??:D
Anyways,it is not going to be that easy to hide an english longbow under your hoodie top and walk down the street is it?Or a compound bow either.
Be better off building a half decent zip gun out of some pipe and plumbing fittings,to hide under your coat,than be struggling with a awkward yoke that stands out like a sore thumb.

Sparks

True, but hiding an air rifle is about as hard.
Besides, if the worry is accidents or people misusing sports equipment to hurt others, I'd be more worried about archery than target shooting, and frankly, I don't worry about archery.

Grizzly 45

Well, considering there has been more mayhem,GBH and death done with ,cricket bats,baseball bats,hockey sticks,,barbell weights and rods,gaff hooks,and golf clubs than air rifles or firearms,maybe those sports equipment should be liscensed??