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Labour the most popular party

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    #32
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Not really surprising - Labour are still in 2004 electoral mode where reality is ignored, everyone gets payrises, spending is increased and so on. Irish people arent too fond of reality, and they liked Bertie a lot, so they love Gilmore. Might as well put Jack O Connor and David Begg as Taoiseach and Tanaiste though.

    Whatever is left of the 700,000 taxpayers in this country that arent in the public sector will be saddled and ridden into the ground to pay for the entitlements of the other 3.8 million.


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    #33
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    mike65 wrote: »
    Labour won't get an overall majority here never mind stay in power for 3 terms.

    No but they could end up as the largest party. Then the only way top keep them out of power would be for FF and FG to hook up. These scenarios are a long way from this opinion poll, but they are not as unlikely as they once seemed


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    #34
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Peppa Pig


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    #35
    edellc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    so if you dont like Labour who do you propose we have in power surly not FF again (they should never have been voted in last time either) and if it does happen again the last glimmer of hope i had in the irish people will well and truly be extinguished


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    #36
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Sand wrote: »
    Not really surprising - Labour are still in 2004 electoral mode where reality is ignored, everyone gets payrises, spending is increased and so on. Irish people arent too fond of reality, and they liked Bertie a lot, so they love Gilmore. Might as well put Jack O Connor and David Begg as Taoiseach and Tanaiste though.

    Whatever is left of the 700,000 taxpayers in this country that arent in the public sector will be saddled and ridden into the ground to pay for the entitlements of the other 3.8 million.

    Rubbish. What payrises?? What spending increases??

    O'Conner and Begg were fully immeresed in the trough with Bertie and Co during the better times. They have come crawling back to their roots and they are not getting the reception they would like. Labour are not beholding to the Unions the way many on here feel they are.


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    #37
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Well done to Labour - enjoy it until you have to spell out how to get rid of the annual €20billion deficit borrowings.

    Ah but wait - they just have to find 20 billionaires each year to take the money off - sure aren't there loads of billionaire developers. That's my guess anyway as there isn't a single proposal on www.labour.ie. So what are the 30% plus people supporting Labour for unless it is thanks to Cowens popularity transfer votes.

    http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/budgetpowerpoint.pdf


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    #38
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Sand wrote: »
    Not really surprising - Labour are still in 2004 electoral mode where reality is ignored, everyone gets payrises, spending is increased and so on.

    What pay-rises are these?


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    #39
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    @taxipete
    Rubbish. What payrises?? What spending increases??

    It is Labour policy to increase the wages of the public sector, undoing the work already done to try control the deficit.
    O'Conner and Begg were fully immeresed in the trough with Bertie and Co during the better times. They have come crawling back to their roots and they are not getting the reception they would like. Labour are not beholding to the Unions the way many on here feel they are.

    Really? It is Labour policy to increase the wages of the public sector, undoing the work already done to try control the deficit.


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    #40
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    edellc wrote: »
    so if you dont like Labour who do you propose we have in power surly not FF again (they should never have been voted in last time either) and if it does happen again the last glimmer of hope i had in the irish people will well and truly be extinguished

    Really?, your last gliimer of hope lies with a party that will reverse the pay cuts of the public sector who's current pay and pension benefits are crippling this country?

    How much more should we get in debt for our PS.. Is the pension defecit of 108 billion not big enough for you?
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/labour-motion-calls-for-reversal-of-public-sector-pay-cuts-454205.html


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    #41
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Sand wrote: »
    @taxipete


    It is Labour policy to increase the wages of the public sector, undoing the work already done to try control the deficit.

    I don't see any mention of pay-rises in that article.


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    #42
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    @dlofnep
    I don't see any mention of pay-rises in that article.

    Is that all you have got in response? Thats it? Waste your own time in denial if you want.


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    #43
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I don't see any mention of pay-rises in that article.

    The Labour party wants to reverse the public sector pay cuts. This amounts to a pay-rise: their goal is that public sector pay will be higher in their term than it is now. Saying this isn't a pay rise is just playing with words, in my opinion.


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    #44
    edellc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    there is too big a gap between the rich and the poor and too many rich people who dont pay tax we need to re-evaluate the whole system and how it works and stop letting the idiots in power slap their wealthy mates on the back and let them get away with paying nothing
    we also need to stop paying huge salaries to the people in power, get rid of the senned and stop the county councillors claiming ridiculous expenses only then do i think do we have a right to ask the poorest of this county to take a cut until then we have no right
    yes the social welfare bill is crazy for such a small county but why is it always the poorest of society that bails out the richest it is disgusting and needs to stop


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    #45
    edellc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    oh and you never answered the question WHO DO YOU PROPOSE BE IN POWER IF NOT LABOUR/FG??


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    #46
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #47
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    edellc wrote: »
    there is too big a gap between the rich and the poor and too many rich people who dont pay tax we need to re-evaluate the whole system and how it works and stop letting the idiots in power slap their wealthy mates on the back and let them get away with paying nothing
    we also need to stop paying huge salaries to the people in power, get rid of the senned and stop the county councillors claiming ridiculous expenses only then do i think do we have a right to ask the poorest of this county to take a cut until then we have no right
    yes the social welfare bill is crazy for such a small county but why is it always the poorest of society that bails out the richest it is disgusting and needs to stop

    You do realise 50% of the lowest paid in this country don't pay any tax, and it's actually the highest paid who bankroll this country?


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    #48
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Sand wrote: »
    @taxipete


    It is Labour policy to increase the wages of the public sector, undoing the work already done to try control the deficit.



    Really? It is Labour policy to increase the wages of the public sector, undoing the work already done to try control the deficit.

    A motion at conference does not a policy make.

    Where have you heard Gilmore calling for the restoration of PS wages??

    When has Joan Burton said that restoration of PS pay would be the first priority for a Labour Govt??

    The answer is you havent. If it was policy the press would be hounding them on it. They arent and there is plenty of anti-Labour media out there.

    If you knew how these motions were carried out you would realise how little it actually means that this was carried and why its not being pushed as official policy.


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    #49
    edellc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    AND?

    the rich get away with too much

    again you havent answered the question


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    edellc wrote: »
    oh and you never answered the question WHO DO YOU PROPOSE BE IN POWER IF NOT LABOUR/FG??

    Didn't he say peppa pig..cowen i presume..


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    #51
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,920 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I think it's more of a case of them being the least least popular Party in Ireland which means they're the most popular.


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    #52
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    crazy poll. the last couple showed FF slowly creeping back, to the extent that the Times was speculating on Saturday they might call an autumn election to try and limit their losses.

    Kenny is a disaster, I'd rather vote for Pat Kenny, or Kenny Dalglish, anyone but Inda.


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    #53
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Headline on the front of the Star tomorrow - "Gilmore in Poll Position to be Next Taoiseach" - my smiles are wryer by the minute


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    #54
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #55
    edellc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    Quazzie wrote: »
    I think it's more of a case of them being the least least popular Party in Ireland which means they're the most popular.

    hahaha true

    I just think that we have a democracy for a reason and voting in the same party time and time again leads to arrogance as we see with FF now I think no party should be in power any more than 4-5 years at most it keeps them on their toes and lets then remember that it is suppose to be we the people who choose and not overpaid and uneducated in the school of life politicians


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    #56
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Read the motion in question. It actually doesnt call for the restoration of PS pay. It calls on Labour to campaign for the reversal of unfair public service paycuts. The statement is open to interpretation. I suspect its quite carefully worded which is why Boards is the only place Labour are being hounded on this.


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    #57
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    edellc wrote: »
    AND?

    the rich get away with too much

    again you havent answered the question

    And the rich get away with paying for this country? How is that getting away with anything?

    You complain about rent subsidies, but who is paying for that? You complain about people milking the system, but you want the PS paycuts reversed (when the bill is destroying the country.. pension alone will cost us 108 BILLION), you complain about the rich who are the only ones actually paying tax..

    What is rich???? Those on the top levels of tax? gimme a break .. people paying top tax rate are not rich.. that are proving rediculous levels of state benefits, rent subsidies, child benefit etc etc etc to a large amount of people who contribute fk all... and contribute to our vast borrowing!

    According to the unions (labour mates).. 35K is low paid.. but our tax rates have 36.4K on the top tax rate.. yet 50% of people don't pay tax...

    and you want to vote them in?


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    #58
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    edellc wrote: »
    the rich get away with too much

    like what?


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    #59
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Read the motion in question. It actually doesnt call for the restoration of PS pay. It calls on Labour to campaign for the reversal of unfair public service paycuts. The statement is open to interpretation. I suspect its quite carefully worded which is why Boards is the only place Labour are being hounded on this.
    Labour get hounded whenever they start to do well.


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    #60
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No. I opposed across the board cuts, while accepting that some cuts were necessary. I oppose restoration of the pay cuts as i dont feel its in the best interest of the country. Thats the problem with applying simple logic to a complex issue.


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    #61
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    @Taxipete
    A motion at conference does not a policy make.

    It does when it is accepted and endorsed by the Labour party by their own internal mechanisms in their own conference to decide their own policies. It is the Labour Party after all, not the Gilmore Party. Gilmore has accepted it as policy.
    Where have you heard Gilmore calling for the restoration of PS wages??

    I havent heard Gilmore have an opinion on the Croke Park deal, water charges or the resignation of Cardinal Brady either. Why should I be surprised they he has no expressed view on the restoration of PS wages?

    Gilmore is terrified of expressing a view on anything. He is for it and against it, just like Bertie.
    When has Joan Burton said that restoration of PS pay would be the first priority for a Labour Govt??

    See above. Labour are for it and against it apparently.
    The answer is you havent.

    Of course, because Labour are terrified of actually having an opinion or a view on anything that is more than a vague denouncement of "unfairness".
    If it was policy the press would be hounding them on it. They arent and there is plenty of anti-Labour media out there.

    Like I said, terrified. Hounding them on it? Labour should be able to spell out and defend their views and policies - they shouldnt be afraid to reveal them for fear that the media meanies might laugh at them. Its the media's job to "hound" politicians and force them to explain and defend their politics.
    If you knew how these motions were carried out you would realise how little it actually means that this was carried and why its not being pushed as official policy.

    So youve got a top down view of society in Labour then? Gilmore runs his kingdom, the little people and activists get a chance to vote on things, which are promptly ignored?

    The evasion is typical. Labour are for pay rises for the public sector, but theyre also against it too. Its basically Fianna Fail 2.0.


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