Labour the most popular party

20goto10

thebman wrote: »

The Irish are in no way inferior

Ignorance spreads like wildfire in this country. The Irish people have an amazing ability of completely misunderstanding an issue and an amazing ability to argue their ignorance until they are blue in the face. People are supporting Labour because they want to stick it to the man. Socialism seems just in todays world but to those of us who have worked hard to get above the working class its no more than glorified communism. I do not want to live in a country where I have to work my bollox off only to give the majority of what a earn to the scroungers down the road.

I'm fully aware we already have strong socialist legislation in this country and we're already being dictated to by the unions, but the thought of actually giving that crowd a vote and willingly put them into power makes me sick.

PeterIanStaker

T runner wrote: »

I really can't abide this loser racist attitude that says because we are Irish we cant do anything right. Speak for yourself!

Do you feel Irish people are racially inferior? Culturally inferior perhaps?

The Irish people are well capable of governing ourselves.

We still live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

The structures we have are completely out of date, however. Labour have some radical ideas for changing those structures.

Perhaps you feel Ireland will prove its ability to govern itself by voting for FG?

Ireland's own media organisations have been telling its own people that they are useless and worthless for a long time now. This attitude might be why people are willing to let the morons in Kildare St do what they like.

T runner

thebman wrote: »

This loser attitude as you refer to it is as a result of years of government members refusing to resign and be held accountable for their incompetent decision making and then going on to make more incompetent decisions.

When found out, simply reshuffle your cabinet for no good reason since few have any specialites in the departments they are in charge of.

I don't have this attitude but its easy to see why others have and it isn't because they are losers but because they are sick of Irish politicians and the manner they behave and the way the country is being run.

They are also sick of parish pump politics. The Irish are in no way inferior, we just have a sick system that needs changing.

Yes, therefore the problem is the system not our nationality.

If the problem was that we are Irish then there is no hope, no resolution obviously. This is a stupid and yes, loser attitude and is very prevalent around these parts.

T runner

T runner wrote: »

Yes, therefore the problem is the system not our nationality.

If the problem was that we are Irish then there is no hope, no resolution obviously. This is a stupid and yes, loser attitude and is very prevalent around these parts.

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Ireland's own media organisations have been telling its own people that they are useless and worthless for a long time now. This attitude might be why people are willing to let the morons in Kildare St do what they like.

The system meansd that there will be large numbers of morons in Leinster house. Only the morons can change the system.

Concluding that this mess is here because we are Irish and unfit to govern ourselves is illogical and defeatist no matter who peddles it.

Liam Byrne

20goto10 wrote: »

I do not want to live in a country where I have to work my bollox off only to give the majority of what a earn to the scroungers down the road.

+1, but my objection is to the scroungers up the road, in the bank HQs and in the Dáil.

So it looks like we're paying both ways, unless we vote in a better calibre of politician.

And while there is some validity in the argument that some Irish people seem to vote people back in no matter what their track record is, the other issue is that there are no (few?) worthwhile people coming through "the system", probably because anyone who rocks the boat too much is shot down.

charlemont

if fianna fail win the next election by pox , large amount of opposition voters emigrated etc then i reckon civil war part 2 the dissidents could get involved too
.......probably wouldnt be a bad thing either......this country should be for all the people not just a few.........:rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

+1, but my objection is to the scroungers up the road, in the bank HQs and in the Dáil.

So it looks like we're paying both ways, unless we vote in a better calibre of politician.

And while there is some validity in the argument that some Irish people seem to vote people back in no matter what their track record is, the other issue is that there are no (few?) worthwhile people coming through "the system", probably because anyone who rocks the boat too much is shot down.

one does not excuse the other Liam

both sides of the street have rotten homes on it

Liam Byrne

Het-Field wrote: »

I think FF are in huge trouble before the next election, and this will manifest itself in heavy losses in the city, only mitiigated by the rural vote holding up.

I don't like the implication that "rural people" don't object to corruption.

Liam Byrne

ei.sdraob wrote: »

one does not excuse the other Liam

Oh, I know that, believe me.

The issue that I have is that if people at the "top" get paid vast amounts for doing nothing, then that mindset will piss more and more people off and will make them want the same.

I mean, I've survived the last 10 years by wanting a fair wage for a decent day's work - no rip-off, and no stroke-pulling - but at this stage when I see useless people getting more in expenses in a year than I get in wages, I have to ask myself why I bother.

So FF's shenannigans are causing a cancer which - I'm sorry to say - is infecting even my sense of fairness and ethics....out of pure frustration and disgust.

Eliot Rosewater

T runner wrote: »

The Irish people are well capable of governing ourselves.

If anything, this recession has showed us that we are not. A sizable proportion of the country voted for FF, a party that was pursing ridiculous economic policies that were bound to end in catastrophe. Of the reminder, most voted for FG and Labour, who were offering much the same thing. In the end, the electorate did not vote with economic reality in mind. They only appeared to vote for those who offered them spending increases and tax cuts.

What seems to be lost in all this is that income should, over the long term, exceed spending. But Irish people have systematically and blatantly ignored this. And with Labour planning to keep spending static in a demoralized economy without announcing plans to raise tax, I fear that this tendency to ignore economics is still alive and kicking.

PeterIanStaker

T runner wrote: »

Concluding that this mess is here because we are Irish and unfit to govern ourselves is illogical and defeatist no matter who peddles it.

Unfortunately, this illogical defeatist sh!te seems to sell copy:rolleyes:

T runner

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So FF's shenannigans are causing a cancer which - I'm sorry to say - is infecting even my sense of fairness and ethics....out of pure frustration and disgust.

So people are now blaming Fianna Fail for their own unethical and unfair behaviour. LOL!

yoshytoshy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I mean, I've survived the last 10 years by wanting a fair wage for a decent day's work - no rip-off, and no stroke-pulling - but at this stage when I see useless people getting more in expenses in a year than I get in wages, I have to ask myself why I bother.

So FF's shenannigans are causing a cancer which - I'm sorry to say - is infecting even my sense of fairness and ethics....out of pure frustration and disgust.

It's demoralising having to put up with the ****e that ff are throwning at us on a daily basis.
I tried my best to maintain an honest ,constructive attitude on the forum here ,but as months have gone by it's been erroded to anxt.

T runner

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

If anything, this recession has showed us that we are not. A sizable proportion of the country voted for FF, a party that was pursing ridiculous economic policies that were bound to end in catastrophe. Of the reminder, most voted for FG and Labour, who were offering much the same thing. In the end, the electorate did not vote with economic reality in mind. They only appeared to vote for those who offered them spending increases and tax cuts.

Im sorry but the vast majority of the ballot papers were taken up with FF, FG and Labour in that order. You seem to be assuming that the electorate had a blank canvas to chose from. There was 20% publican candidates, 20% publican TDs. 14% women candidates, All were elected in similar proprtions. You cant vote for parties/candidates that simply arent there.

Saying you get the government you deserve sounds wise but is not always true.


The problem is the quality of the names/parties on the ballot paper and the systems that brought them there.

Our system also ensures the "parish pump" TDs. These are there becuase of the system, because you need to take care of local matters primarily to get elected to a national parliament.

With this type of system you will have "parish pump" style MPs no matter what the country. Its not because we are a particular nationality that things turn out this way...It is a direct result of this type of system.

But Irish people have systematically and blatantly ignored this. And with Labour planning to keep spending static in a demoralized economy without announcing plans to raise tax, I fear that this tendency to ignore economics is still alive and kicking.

Many other citizens of many other western countries have also ignored this principle in exactly the same way as Irish citizens have.

banquo

My sig worked!

BluntGuy

Het-Field wrote: »

Unless Lenihan takes over, there is little there to replace him. I think FF are in huge trouble before the next election, and this will manifest itself in heavy losses in the city, only mitiigated by the rural vote holding up.

I have no idea why Lenihan is so popular, he's an absymal minister for finance. Both Richard Bruton and Joan Burton would wipe the floor with him in any kind of real debate. And neither of them are particularly brilliant.

But yeah, I hardly see many appealing candidates to replace him either. I'd love to believe FF are in "huge trouble" but the fact is a staggering 25% of the nation still gave them their vote in the locals. So I'm pessimistic about the hopes of any FF "meltdown".

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hallelujajordan

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A general election in 2012 with new leadership in both FF and FG will see Labour back where they belong in third place.

eh the place where FF belong is last :mad:

BluntGuy

BluntGuy wrote: »

I have no idea why Lenihan is so popular, he's an absymal minister for finance. Both Richard Bruton and Joan Burton would wipe the floor with him in any kind of real debate. And neither of them are particularly brilliant.

+1 Lenihan is a disaster, banking guarantee, NAMA, going back on cut backs, making cuts in capital expenditure more than current. Ruining the future. A prize bollox so he is.

Dr. Baltar

I'm quite happy about the news of Labour being number one for their social policies. However, economically, I would much rather a right winged party.

Where are the PDs when we need them?

yahoo_moe

banquo wrote: »

My sig worked!

And now it seems to have disappeared... wonder what'll happen to Labour's 30%+ rating?

yahoo_moe

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

A sizable proportion of the country voted for FF, a party that was pursing ridiculous economic policies that were bound to end in catastrophe. Of the reminder, most voted for FG and Labour, who were offering much the same thing. In the end, the electorate did not vote with economic reality in mind.

Who was left to vote for then?

I don't remember any particularly austere proposals at the last general election, particularly not on a nationwide basis.

Eliot Rosewater

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Who was left to vote for then?

I don't remember any particularly austere proposals at the last general election, particularly not on a nationwide basis.

Indeed, I accept that point. However if there was a strong public demand for fiscal responsibility, Fine Gael would probably have positioned themselves there, or a new party might have emerged. I think there definitely was a cultural ignorance of economic necessity.

yahoo_moe wrote: »

And now it seems to have disappeared... wonder what'll happen to Labour's 30%+ rating?

When you log in all the sigs disappear!

BlaasForRafa

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Who was left to vote for then?

I don't remember any particularly austere proposals at the last general election, particularly not on a nationwide basis.

I want to see Fianna Fail out but Labour aren't going to do anything concrete about dealing with public spending and especially about public servants wages and pensions. Gilmore et al won't have the balls to stare down the unions, especially since they are funded by them.

bored and fussy

Labour are a joke they are in fact a sick joke. they are pretending they have all the answers without any pain and there are people who believe them.
God help us all.

http://www.labour.ie/manifesto/7.html
Check it out!

oh yeah and they hire people under the WPP scheme.
http://www.labour.ie/recruit

Champagne Socialists

Sand

@dlopfnep

Considering your post was even less insightful, I find that a little bit hypocritical.

What? Serioulsly what? You talked ****e, i refuse to waste my time on ****e...what? You think its useful to waste my time on your bollocks?

@taxipete

Read my post on what was contained in the motion itself. You see it sometimes pays to look for something yourself instead of just taking a journos word for it.

Labour scares economic liberals and without any real justifacation. Labours record is very favourable to the business community( without which we aint getting out of this hole)

Labour scares economic liberals because its a pathetically populist party where theres a mystical rich untaxed monster constituency which will make up the missing 20 billion.

In reality world, Gilmore and Burtons whining runs up against something called .... Reality.

Labour has an idealogical issue with employers....employers by definition are capitalist, non unnionist scum, practically on par with Michael O Leary.

I think we could end up with a FF/LAB government. LAB and Gilmore are practically inseperable from FF and Bertie Ahern. We like to think Irish people have learned, but have we?

Labour, Gilmore, Fianna Fail, Cowen.... its a perfect match at the end of the day. Isnt it?

Dob74

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

I'm quite happy about the news of Labour being number one for their social policies. However, economically, I would much rather a right winged party.

Where are the PDs when we need them?[/QUOTE]


Voted out of existance.

But dont worry there neo-liberal failed policies live on in FF & FG.
And that's why Labour are number one.

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

+1 Lenihan is a disaster, banking guarantee, NAMA, going back on cut backs, making cuts in capital expenditure more than current. Ruining the future. A prize bollox so he is.

Seriously, its comments like that that scare the hell out of me because I know there are hundreds of thousands of people that believe the same . . A majority of people agree with alot of what David McWilliams says ! He is simply the Jordan of economics, a media whore that can appeal to the masses but in the end is full of hot air. .

Most economists (that arent just looking to pander to the likes of labor followers) think that with regards to the guarantee and NAMA, that FF got it more right then wrong . .

The only question on the banking guarantee is all about the subordinated loans, not the guarantee itself. Regarding NAMA, the alternative was to nationalise the banks or let them go under which a majority of respected economists completely disagreed with, but good old idiots labor felt it would be simple.

Cuts HAD to be made in capital expenditure. Do you not understand we just dont have the money and we have to pay more to get a loan ? Or do you actually believe any of the rhetoric that the opposition comes out with ?

I imagine you are one of the "new labor" followers . . This country will collapse into anarchy if Labor become the biggest party and take control of our economic policy. The ONLY people who will be happy will be the public servants who were happy to be Bought by FF in the good times (and are now looking to dissasociate themselves as much from them, it wasnt just the builders whom FF were courting in the good times!) . .

I will get accused of being an FF symapthiser/supporter, Im not. Im a realist and think that some of the stuff written on these boards shows that many of the electorate have learned nothing (support whoever promises the most!). Particularly, throwout comments like Bruton or Burton would be vastly superior Ministers for finance ! This is based on what ? Ah yes, throwing stones at the government and as an opposition party, your job is to simply latch onto whatever is popular and bash it at those in power (irrespective of the rationality of the argument).

Lenihan is widely respected, even by non FF, because everybody knows that he took the job and was thrust into a Sh^tstorm that he had little to do with. He was slow at the start but really grew in stature. No finance minister will get it right all the time, but he has been stern, quicker to make the tough calls and decisive most of the times. He hasnt been afraid to make tough calls (a serious question mark over Labor).

Having the knowledge to do a job is one thing, we desperatly need a finance minister and taoiseach who will lead with confidence. While Bruton would have the best CV, who here has confidence in Kenny to lead ?

BluntGuy

Drumpot wrote: »

This country will collapse into anarchy if Labor become the biggest party and take control of our economic policy.

Yeaaaaaaaaaah, kinda hypocritical for you to accuse others of making "throwout" comments after this.

Particularly, throwout comments like Bruton or Burton would be vastly superior Ministers for finance ! This is based on what ? Ah yes, throwing stones at the government and as an opposition party, your job is to simply latch onto whatever is popular and bash it at those in power (irrespective of the rationality of the argument).

Or maybe it's because when Bruton and Burton discuss finance they (generally) make clear, coherent points as opposed Lenihan's consistent rhetoric about "no alternatives" and "tough decisions" along with his assortment of pseudo-intelligent economic catchphrases.

Lenihan is widely respected, even by non FF, because everybody knows that he took the job and was thrust into a Sh^tstorm that he had little to do with. He was slow at the start but really grew in stature. No finance minister will get it right all the time, but he has been stern, quicker to make the tough calls and decisive most of the times. He hasnt been afraid to make tough calls (a serious question mark over Labor).

Lenihan has called it wrong every single time though. First he told us NAMA would make a profit, then he told us it break even, then he told us he couldn't impose a levy as it would compromise the NAMA bill, then he magically u-turned and said a levy would be imposed, the numbers required to bailout Anglo has just been a lucky dip farce from week to week (I understand this can't all be attributed to him, but as minister he must take ultimate responsibility), he cuts public sector pay but does nothing about making excess staff redundant, instead we get a vague, waffley Croke Park "deal" which benefits absolutely nobody and a recruitment embargo which is damaging vital services instead of tackling waste, he lost us millions by increasing VAT back in 2008, the bank garuntee (again, not all his fault, but he's at the helm of the finance department) etc. He is utterly talentless when it comes economic management. The only talent he seems to possess is giving the illusion he knows what he's on about, which our lazy media (particularly RTE) then lap up, when the disastrous decisions he's taken thus far have proven otherwise.

That said, Lenihan is probably one of the best in the current batch of ministers, which only serves to prove how atrocious the current cabinet truly is.

Having the knowledge to do a job is one thing, we desperatly need a finance minister and taoiseach who will lead with confidence. While Bruton would have the best CV, who here has confidence in Kenny to lead ?

I have more confidence in Kenny than Brian Cowen. He might have the TV personality of a cardboard box, but unlike Cowen he didn't oversee the destruction of our nation's economy. What we desperately need is a Finance Minister, a Cabinet, with some actual talent. Both FG and Labour have frontbenchers who far outclass the current FF shower.