C&C welcome?

magicbastarder

just something i'd been mulling over recently, and kinda brought up again in another thread.

i don't post C&C threads with my photos - i usually only post stuff i'm happy with and like to share, and i'm ornery enough that any critique will usually go in one ear and out the other. i've been taking photos for 15 years, and am happy with my photography (with the main exception relating to the amount of time i get out with the camera these days).
but i was wondering how much wider exposure to C&C that the net (not just talking about boards) may have changed how i took photos when i was starting out.

i was less stubborn then, and i imagine a lot of people who come here who have just started into the hobby would be likewise less stubborn about their shots, so i was wondering if C&C might have affected how i took photos and my enjoyment of it.

it's only a half formed thought, but i'm just wondering what other people think about where the balance should lie between self-critique and critique by people you don't know and know little of their own preferences.
especially relating to newbies who are still coming to grips with their own style.

DaireQuinlan

I don't really take -that- much heed of C&C, I think I'm fairly comfortable in my own skin at this stage. I'm aware of my strengths and weaknesses. I do know that the first thing I do if I get a critique is check the photos of the person who's given it to me. If I don't take to it, and it's negative criticism this obviously allows me to condescendingly dismiss them as completely lacking taste and refinement If I DO like their stuff and it's negative criticism then naturally they're just having an off-day.

Nisio

I used put up single pics for C&C and it's good up to a point where there aren't any major problems with composition/exposure; after that the number of comments/criticisims seems to approach zero. Kind of a plateau.

I've lately been trying to look for C&C for a few images that maybe have a common theme or work as a set etc; sort of a "this was the idea I had, these were the pictures I took to show that idea, did it work for you?" kind of C&C

Thecageyone

I put up images for C&C in the past, then discovered not many liked me so won't bother again ... :P

Nah, it can be helpful, but there is always the few bitter ones who'll nit-pick just for the sake of it. They see 'C&C' and come in all guns ablaze. That can be damaging, especially to someone new to photography.

I like what I do, others do too. That's enough for me. Some will post stuff for c&c because they imagine it's great and will expect all positives, that can be damaging too. I would only put stuff up for c&c stuff I'm not too sure about myself.

DaireQuinlan

Thecageyone wrote: »

Nah, it can be helpful, but there is always the few bitter ones who'll nit-pick just for the sake of it.

Yes. That's the 'critique' bit of it. Given that you described AnCatDubhs rather excellent C&C style as being 'nitpicky' I wouldn't put too much weight in your opinion in this regard.

Thecageyone

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Yes. That's the 'critique' bit of it. Given that you described AnCatDubhs rather excellent C&C style as being 'nitpicky' I wouldn't put too much weight in your opinion in this regard.

:rolleyes:


I said that in a thread that had one image - a very simple, straight forward, fun shot of a child with a flower in the grass. Lovely image. I didn't think it required 10 points on how to better it, that's all.

Should we just wait on ACD to C&C all offerings? It's all about opinion, nobody is always right, not even you

Again, my post above is my opinion ... and here you are opinionating on it yet again ... do you have a pic of me on your dartboard too?




Seriously ...


Back OT: i think there's an obvious difference between critique and nit-pickery. Don't you?

charybdis

There's a difference between requesting feedback on the technical aspects of your work as opposed to presenting a piece of art for criticism. C&C may help people overcome technical issues they were having by giving them advice on how to better articulate their vision, but when a person is modifying their vision to please a notional group of commenters, the images can become very homogenous and intended to appease the lowest common denominator, thus compromising their art.

It'd be a good idea for anyone presenting images for C&C to write a little about what they wanted to achieve with the images, and specifically how they think they might have failed, so that they can put the discussion of their work in context and not leave it open to misinterpretation. This only works if the images were made with a specific purpose in mind, I've seen a lot of C&C requests for what amounts to "a bunch of photos I took that I'm not sure how I feel about and I want someone to tell me what to think".

Thecageyone wrote: »

:rolleyes:


I said that in a thread that had one image - a very simple, straight forward, fun shot of a child with a flower in the grass. Lovely image. I didn't think it required 10 points on how to better it, that's all.

Should we just wait on ACD to C&C all offerings? It's all about opinion, nobody is always right, not even you

Again, my post above is my opinion ... and here you are opinionating on it yet again ... do you have a pic of me on your dartboard too?




Seriously ...


Back OT: i think there's an obvious difference between critique and nit-pickery. Don't you?

Recursive post is recursive.

milos

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Yes. That's the 'critique' bit of it. Given that you described AnCatDubhs rather excellent C&C style as being 'nitpicky' I wouldn't put too much weight in your opinion in this regard.

Maybe the reason newbees stop sending pics in for c&c is because
1 they are hit with, its overexposed, bad angle, bad light , to much photoshop, too cropped, not cropped enough all bad things often no good comments at all.
2 it gets personel like the above quote.

Yes C&C but give encouragement as well as critique.

To all that have been discouraged by their C&C remember YOU liked the shot and YOU enjoyed taking it

AnimalRights

Not 100% of what you're trying to say Bastarder but generally I find there are 2 types of people who use C&C.

1) Newbies who are hoping that they've made progress and generally they haven't made much more.

2) Seasoned pros who believe that they've struck Gold.

As for me and my pics? I believe that I have my own unique style when it comes to gigs/Street photography and obviously it'd be pointless asking someone else.

PopeBuckfastXVI

I don't post for C&C, just in the random thread. I've found that often people, being helpful and well meaning, will just end up telling you how they would have done something different, or how they wouldn't do it they way you purposefully set out to do something, so I don't really get anything out of it, just end up having to explain that what they are looking at is what I had pre-visualised and wanted to get. I'm not saying I'm perfect, or even good, of course, just that more often than not critique stems from a misunderstanding, or difference in taste. Everyone's different and one man's awful is another man's perfect.

Vive la différence, I say!

magicbastarder

AnimalRights wrote: »

Not 100% of what you're trying to say Bastarder

neither am i, so that makes two of us.

i think what i was getting at in my original post was for someone who has just taken up photography to try to seek C&C - to use an analogy - like someone who enjoys having a fun kickabout with a football getting critique from a couple of football coaches.

i.e. there's a point before which you shouldn't seek C&C, i suppose. i think the process of discovery is more enjoyable if you make it yourself, rather than being directed along it.

AnimalRights

magicbastarder wrote: »

i.e. there's a point before which you shouldn't seek C&C, i suppose. i think the process of discovery is more enjoyable if you make it yourself, rather than being directed along it.

aahh one minute your using fancy words and it sounds gibberish but once you speak my language is crystal now and whats more I totally agree!

Although I believe when it comes to Sports pics that C&C is important for someone new to that subject, I mean I did a C&C of a Cricket game I covered and the C&C I got off an old poster here Padaer was invaluable.

Thecageyone

I never C&C on anything I don't think I could improve on [if I shot/processed similar] - either that or I'll just comment to say how much I like it. I'll add nothing if I don't think I could could do better or help them improve anything about it.

Some just jump in with "rubbish, boring, terrible images" [I've had it before - and that's not helpful to anyone, bar their ego.

humberklog

Very handy for having some input when putting a small collection together.

I occasionally do it but I do have a tendencey to only put much weight to what is said by those whose work or opinion I have learned to respect.

My experience is that family and friends are utterly useless for C+C so it's very handy to get a broad audience of experienced people.

Thecageyone

humberklog wrote: »

My experience is that family and friends are utterly useless for C+C so it's very handy to get a broad audience of experienced people.

Agree with that. I get praised all the time by those close to me, but I'm not so easily led that I'll suddenly think I'm a brilliant photographer because they say so.

As for the only take it from those you admire angle ... that can have it's pros and cons too.

They may well have some nice stuff, but how does it relate to your style?

Are they too just bigging you up because they liked your other stuff? Or because they know you like theirs? [based on numerous comments on their images maybe]

If they critique, are they being 100% blunt? like they are with people they don't know?

I tend to take C&C with chunks of salt, good + bad. You can tell when someone is just out to get at you, and you can also tell when they're just buttering you up. I find complete strangers, people I've never come across - randomly commenting postives/negatives on my work the best to go by. They have nothing to lose or gain.

humberklog

Thecageyone wrote: »

They may well have some nice stuff, but how does it relate to your style?

Are they too just bigging you up because they liked your other stuff? Or because they know you like theirs? [based on numerous comments on their images maybe]

If they critique, are they being 100% blunt? like they are with people they don't know?

QUOTE]

It doesn't have to relate to my own. I've also a tendency to like people's work that would be a million miles from my own.

Also my respect of the work and opinions of people that I'd take their C+C on board doesn't have to go heralded. More often than not it's ones that I'd hardy ever (if ever) comment on their work or engage with on a thread that I'd heed the most.
I just like to read and form opinions in silence. No cliqueyness here.

jpb1974

how does it relate to your style?

What exactly do you mean when you say "your style"?

Can someone tell me what their style is a then post or link me to some of their images that demonstrate their style?

Thecageyone

Funny, nobody mentioned cliqueyness :P

magicbastarder

humberklog wrote: »

Very handy for having some input when putting a small collection together.

yep, but you're in a situation where you need external feedback if you're trying to sell stuff; less critical when there's less at stake.

humberklog

Thecageyone wrote: »

Funny, nobody mentioned cliqueyness :P

I did, just a few posts back.

humberklog

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, but you're in a situation where you need external feedback if you're trying to sell stuff; less critical when there's less at stake.

Well I was only giving it from my own viewpoint. And I find it very helpful. Good, useful sounding board in my opinion.

magicbastarder

anyway, i don't think there's any issue with C&C for someone comfortable with their kit and what they want from it; it's more for complete newbies i was wondering.

Thecageyone

humberklog wrote: »

I did, just a few posts back.

Ya, I was just taking the P.

You made it sound cliquey, how you handle C&C ... don't ate me now, just saying

jpb1974

What exactly do you mean when you say "your style"?

Can someone tell me what their style is a then post or link me to some of their images that demonstrate their style?

Any takers?

humberklog

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyway, i don't think there's any issue with C&C for someone comfortable with their kit and what they want from it; it's more for complete newbies i was wondering.

Well I'm kinda coming at it from that angle too as I'm a relative newb to photography (about a year and a half) and complete newb to bringing collections together.

As a newb and a pro it works nicely, from my perspective.

humberklog

Thecageyone wrote: »

Ya, I was just taking the P.

You made it sound cliquey, how you handle C&C ... don't ate me now, just saying

Well it's selective method, not cliquey. Things can be read the wrong way very easily on internet forums, it seams.

Thecageyone

You don't have to tell me! I get it after every single post!

DaireQuinlan

Thecageyone wrote: »

You don't have to tell me! I get it after every single post!

Funny that. :rolleyes:

No worries though, it's obviously because of everyone ELSE, not you.

Thecageyone

Mostly you daire, you come across a bitter fecker ... but Ive learned to laugh at you, no worries

AnimalRights

jpb1974 wrote: »

Any takers?

Look at my gig shots and you'll see a style that you don't see from other gig shooters here.
They all go for lighting and close crops.
I shoot mostly flash and when it comes to bands I always include unusual angles and the full band as well as tight crops.

http://pix.ie/punkrock/album/378482

My last gig shoot.

Calina

thecageyone, DaireQuinlan

cut me some slack and don't make me have to trawl through your carpathon any more this evening. It's derailing far too many threads lately.

regards

Calina.