Landlords withholding deposits

who_ru

Hi all,

I have been reading a lot on here and elsewhere about the instances of landlords withholding deposits paid at the start of a tenancy for the slightest of reasons.

while there may be a few tenants that are telling porkies about the reasons why their deposits are being withheld, there does seem to be a growing trend of LL's who simply refuse to return deposits.

now to me this is not too far away from being theft, albeit dressed up in legal jargon vis-a-vis contracts, and seems wholly unsatisfactory for everyone involved.

i have no confidence whatsoever in the current 'system' - i cannot see why i should hand over anywhere up to 2,000 euro to an individual or estate agent when there is no guarantee i will ever get that money back.

i can take photo's, shoot video of the apt or house etc when i move in, document it and ask the LL to initial & date the list etc so as to ensure i hand the place back in the same condition i was given it.

but any potential LL or EA sighs deeply or rolls their eyes when i propose to do this - i get the feeling they are saying 'this guy is trouble'.

how can the current system of handing over large sums of money continue, when in a growing number of instances, there is little likelihood of ever getting it back?

MistyCheese

I agree, of course this isn't something that can be proven. You can't know if a landlord will be honest regarding the return of your deposit until the time comes. My last landlord incensed me after I moved out by claiming the flat was left "in a right state". The reason I was so furious was because I went back to the flat after moving out specifically to clean it.

Many people have suggested that the deposit be dealt with by an independant body, someone without ties to either landlord or tennant. After a property is vacated it is inspected by this independant party and any applicable repairs have to be agreed by both landlord and former tennant. There may be problems with this but surely fewer than the current set-up?

I wouldn't worry about the landlord/estate agent's reaction to your taking pictures. It's more important to protect yourself.

edellc

I have been a renter for the last 10 years and every property i have been in (im in my 4th) i have improved rather than destroyed after all it is my home and not just a rented property I have only received my deposit back from one landlord and this was after ringing and ringing and ringing
The current system is a joke I do think that not all LL are dishonest just like not all tenants are unruly students or out to destroy the property I do think we need new laws in place to protect both LL and tenants for those that keep deposits and those that withhold rent and destroy property
I feel that all LL should have to declare that they are renting out properties so renters can avail of RA, that an independent body comes out to inspect the property once both LL and tenant have agreed to enter a contract but before tenant moves in so a full assessment of property can be taken independently, then once tenancy is up this body then comes back out to inspect an assert if any damage has been done other than general wear and tear to the property and what if any expenses should be deducted from the deposit
Its about having an honest and open rental market sadly i dont think this will ever happen :-(

taz70

I agree there should be an independent body. In Australia they have Rental Bond Authorities, and the deposit is paid to them. If the landlord wants to make a claim for damage etc, they have to apply to the RBA with evidence that the damage was done. There are appeal processes etc. Estate agents still do the inspections.

I'm always surprised that there is no formal condition report that tenants have to fill in, so that agents/landlords and tenants have a formal record of the condition a place was rented in. I'd like to be able to record the broken glass in one framed print, the marks all over the walls, the rubbish that was left on the premises etc etc. The rental system here leaves a lot to be desired.

FunkyMissMonkey

I definitely agree that handing over the deposit to the landlord doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, and there should definitely be a third party involved. Wear & tear vs damage, and overall cleanliness of the place is very subjective. I *always* clean a house before I vacate it, and more often than not, it's far cleaner at that point than when I moved in. :rolleyes: Yet landlords like to trip out that old classic "needs thorough cleaning".

If I remember correctly, legally they are not allowed to spend the deposit money during your tenancy, it is your money, and they are simply holding it "just in case". However, in all honesty, how many landlords would think twice before chucking the cash in their bank account and getting on with it?

I've received 1 deposit back in many years of renting, and that was from possibly the shadiest of all my landlords! He refused to use standing orders for rent, insisted on calling monthly to collect cash. However, the day we handed over the keys, he wrote a cheque to return the deposit after a cursory glance around the house.

It seems all too easy for a landlord to give a list of reasons not to pay out, and say the matter is closed. I know in my case I generally do not have the will to go through PRTB etc and the hassle of claiming it back. Thankfully this is now behind me however. Instead I have the "joys" of ownership!

Graces7

Take heart...

See

http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=102&page=301

And act accordingly..

Time before last it took us four months to get all the deposit back ... I only got a part of it as I bumped into the landlady in Town and kind of escorted her to the ATM.....

PCPhoto

OP...best thing to do is take photos once you move in (before you actually move anything in...but after you sign contract)

just send a copy to the EA/LL and hold a copy yourself:

had a similar problem last year when I moved out of previous place.... EA was being very particular and claiming entire place had to be re-painted and claiming damage ..... which I knew was impossible as the place was cleaner when I left compared to when I moved in.

I reminded her that I sent a CD of images within a week of moving in (I'm a professional photographer) .... and I could provide another copy if required...I referred her to various photographs during emails,..... she didnt admit it but I could tell she didnt keep the original CD that I had sent, so I sent another for her to check and see the state the place was in when I moved in..... she was still reluctant to return deposit so I contacted the LL and he instructed them to return the deposit straight away..... he didnt know any of the claims the EA were making he had instructed the deposit returned straight after I moved out .... it took 3 months beforeI got it back...he was very pi$$ed off with thrm once I told him what they were claiming.

the sh1t they pull is crazy (Estate Agents and Management Agents) ..... I was lucky on this occasion to have taken pics of everything.

ann0

take photos of everything date them make duplicates and pop them in an envelope and send 1 set to ur self and another set to someone else.dont open them.ul have 1 set for the landlord and another set for court if things go there.let a judge open the envelope.hel notice the date on the envelope and that the envelope was never preopened.not all landlords are scumbos but there are some.
a few yrs back wen i was renting the landlord refused to give my deposit back because the original kettle had broke which i replaced.and claimed that i took his tv which happened to be mine.anyway .so i got a couple of male relatives to be with me wen he arived the nxt day for the key.they stayed in the kitchen as i asked for the deposit back he refused saying no can do.so out came my army.his face dropped and went white.my relatives said uve one chance to pay up now.to cut a long story short he paid up straigtaway as he had collected rents from the other renters
my next landlord was an angel thank god

ABajaninCork

In the UK, by law the LL has to pay the deposit into something like the Deposit Protection Scheme. Mind you, the system is heavily weighted in the tenant's favour, but no system is perfect...

On termination of the lease, both parties have to agree that the property is left in a clean condition before the deposit is released.

I don't suppose something like that can happen here?:rolleyes:

echosound

I actually find that dealing directly with LLs rather than agents is a far easier process - I have always gotten my full deposit back (or minus agreed deductions when the LL has offered to settle up a utility bill out of the deposit with my agreement) when dealing with a landlord directly.

Agents, however, are another story. I had a truly awful experience with one agent many years ago - we were vacating a house and moving to another which was with the same agent, and were told that we had left the house filthy, and they were using the full 700 euro deposit to get the house cleaned :rolleyes: and we'd need to pay another 800 euro deposit within 24 hours :rolleyes: for the new house we had just moved to.

Seeing as we had spent the guts of 3 days cleaning the house to a far more pristine state than we had found it in when we moved in, we were outraged. Called to the landlord himself as we knew where he lived, turned out he had heard nothing about this withholding of the deposit, he had been round to see the house and thought it was sparkling clean and had instructed the agent to return our deposit.

Agent subesquently shouted and bawled at us for going "behind her back" and "making up lies" that we hadn't even spoken to the LL. Eventually she backed down when we got him on the phone to her, and she transferred the 700 euro deposit to the new house (to which we had to add another hundred).

When we moved out of there, again the house was spotless, but she started again with the screaming and bawling at us, accusing us of breaking the lease (we were there longer than 12 months, and hadn't signed another lease), then of leaving the house filthy, then of not paying utility bills (we were getting the final bill sent on to a forwarding address, so nothing to do with her).

We had moved a considerable distance away and it was so much hassle following up on the deposit and getting screamed at down the phone that after a year I just gave up. Kicking myself now that I didn't stick with it and nail her to the wall, but I was only an innocent young thing who hadn't heard of the PRTB back in those days.
My blood still boils when I think of her, and the psycho is still a practising agent today She's not the only one I've had issues with, other agents have done such wonderful things as show our house to prospective buyers without even informing us, waiting until we had gone out to access the property in secret.

A system of deposit protection, such as is already in place in other countries, is definitely needed here. Would protect both tenant and landlord, and stop unscrupulous agents from trying to pocket the deposit on the sly.