Upgrading studio - Need some advice :)

bluff1989

Hi,

I am currently using all software and looking at going for some hardware in the coming months.

I mainly produce rap and techno but would like to have hardware that will be a good all rounders. Gonna do my best to get my hands on a mpc3000, mac and new monitors.
But after that theres so much to choose from im not really sure what to go for to suit my needs aswell as not wasting money on things i dont need .

I was advised to post on here and you guys may be able to give me some advice.

I want to go for a decent hardware synth or two (something very versatile with an awesome gritty sound) and maybe another more realistic sounding synth of some sort with very nice sounding instruments or maybe a hardware sampler with multisampling ultimatly thats what id be going for though for realistic sounding instruments im guessing? ..

new midi controller currently using a 37key remote sl could do with the extra keys - wat im looking for there is just a quality basic midi keyboard with no controls and after touch.

a new audio interface a bit boggled by this one - currently using a focusrite saffire le but want to have automated faders on it and extremely low latency.

A hardware effects unit wouldnt go a miss i dont think. But id like ta see what you guys would recommend.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ste...

Neurojazz

Check The Virus TI out - It's the only choice for hardware synth fact. Most have gone out of business since VST have turned up.

It's very stable for MAC, no so great for PC - if you end up on a PC look at the TI snow or the Powercore Virus (the Powercore platform can help with other Hardware needs)

If you are not a guru for synth editing and after 'super saws' then the TI Snow has ample power and an easy to use front end that pops up in your DAW.

It stands out in the mix in ways VST just don't - and filthy? - filthy as you want it, or clean as you want it - scary piece of gear.

Hardware effects - check out the UAD2 - if you have money to burn it's an awesome device and frees up a lot of CPU with premium analog sounding EQ and reverbs.

VIRUS TI

UAD

The common thing with both these items are ease of use and lots of visual 'hardware looking' virtual instruments/effects that sound analog.

Hope that helps.

bluff1989

Neurojazz wrote: »

Check The Virus TI out - It's the only choice for hardware synth fact. Most have gone out of business since VST have turned up.

It's very stable for MAC, no so great for PC - if you end up on a PC look at the TI snow or the Powercore Virus (the Powercore platform can help with other Hardware needs)

If you are not a guru for synth editing and after 'super saws' then the TI Snow has ample power and an easy to use front end that pops up in your DAW.

It stands out in the mix in ways VST just don't - and filthy? - filthy as you want it, or clean as you want it - scary piece of gear.

Hardware effects - check out the UAD2 - if you have money to burn it's an awesome device and frees up a lot of CPU with premium analog sounding EQ and reverbs.

VIRUS TI

UAD

The common thing with both these items are ease of use and lots of visual 'hardware looking' virtual instruments/effects that sound analog.

Hope that helps.

Hey dude,

I was actually thinking of going for the virus ti desktop wanted to see what your guys opinions where as im only starting to dabble in hardware.

See with the hardware synth i will learn alot quicker id generally just mess about with a preset and get what sound i want but want to get more into programming my own sounds lll pick it up faster with more hands on work. I know you can use control surfaces and all but they just dont do it for me not as responsive as an actual knob on a hardware piece of kit.

Well its gonna be alot of saving dude i will have the money there. well approx 10 12k and i want to get the biggest bang for buck

Hoping to get a mixer and 2 1210s with serato aswell so hopefully can squeeze it all in.

Really liking the uad, wat model would you recommend.. ima have a good look at em with me mate anyways wen he gets a free few hours....

dude while im on to you would you have any recommendations for real sounding hardware kit or would you recommend to stick with kontakt.

thanks alot for d reply appreciate it

Neurojazz

You'd have to chat with Mac lads about the software to use and what's best - i myself am PC based only.

seannash

just a question but are you quite new to producing?

also what softsynths have you got that you feel you need a hardware synth

Sacred_git

peronally i disagree with this, especially the most have gone out of business part - thats just rubbish. for example a Korg Radias is more than a match for a virus at half the price, as well as a few other synths, OP if your also into rap too, well then a virus is indeed a fine choice also a radias, as well as many others. Check out adverts.ie for 2nd hand synths too. Personally i hate vst's - stick with hardware and be a true musician!!!

Neurojazz wrote: »

Check The Virus TI out - It's the only choice for hardware synth fact. Most have gone out of business since VST have turned up.

It's very stable for MAC, no so great for PC - if you end up on a PC look at the TI snow or the Powercore Virus (the Powercore platform can help with other Hardware needs)

If you are not a guru for synth editing and after 'super saws' then the TI Snow has ample power and an easy to use front end that pops up in your DAW.

It stands out in the mix in ways VST just don't - and filthy? - filthy as you want it, or clean as you want it - scary piece of gear.

Hardware effects - check out the UAD2 - if you have money to burn it's an awesome device and frees up a lot of CPU with premium analog sounding EQ and reverbs.

VIRUS TI

UAD

The common thing with both these items are ease of use and lots of visual 'hardware looking' virtual instruments/effects that sound analog.

Hope that helps.

Neurojazz

Sacred_git wrote: »

peronally i disagree with this, especially the most have gone out of business part - thats just rubbish. for example a Korg Radias is more than a match for a virus at half the price, as well as a few other synths, OP if your also into rap too, well then a virus is indeed a fine choice also a radias, as well as many others. Check out adverts.ie for 2nd hand synths too. Personally i hate vst's - stick with hardware and be a true musician!!!

I've had both Korg & the Ti (along with most other brands of synths) and the korg sounds a little brittle against the TI series - i don't know what voodoo they have going on in that box but it's seriously way ahead of anything korg/roland/nord can offer.... i've also been stupid enough to have full modular systems and would give it up for something like the TI - even the older powercore virus seems to have a good few years left in it.

I'd go check these synths out in peoples tracks that use them - do some reasearch for your genre and find what most people use - you may even opt for a real Moog if fat bass lines are your only need

Neurojazz

Sacred_git wrote: »

peronally i disagree with this, especially the most have gone out of business part - thats just rubbish.

Ummm - where have you been for the last ten years?

I think the retailers on boards could tell you just how many companies stopped making dedicated electronic music synths (or advancing them)

They've either become gadgets with spurious variations and nothing original with little adding to the tone or signal generation.

I've heard better sounds coming out of SH101 than most the pap that is around. Or even an ms202

But hey, what do i know - only spent most my life working in music shops and spending my life wages on music gear to get burned by most the pap out there.

The korg ms-2000 couldn't even generate the sweetness of the poly800 - epic fail.

I've had all this gear (and more), and most from the time just before computers killed the hardware industry in respect to development. Why on earth companies like Roland don't re-release things like the mks series.... we'd all be leaving VSTs in a blink.

Sacred_git

Neurojazz wrote: »

Ummm - where have you been for the last ten years?

I think the retailers on boards could tell you just how many companies stopped making dedicated electronic music synths (or advancing them)

They've either become gadgets with spurious variations and nothing original with little adding to the tone or signal generation.

I've heard better sounds coming out of SH101 than most the pap that is around. Or even an ms202

But hey, what do i know - only spent most my life working in music shops and spending my life wages on music gear to get burned by most the pap out there.

The korg ms-2000 couldn't even generate the sweetness of the poly800 - epic fail.

I've had all this gear (and more), and most from the time just before computers killed the hardware industry in respect to development. Why on earth companies like Roland don't re-release things like the mks series.... we'd all be leaving VSTs in a blink.

what are you talking about, all the names are still there Korg, moog, waldorf, dsi, yamaha,roland, akai etc etc
Do you work for access too?? its a good synth - no doubt but i question it being over 2 grand, when you can get 90% of the spec on the radias for half the price = win!!

Neurojazz

Sacred_git wrote: »

what are you talking about, all the names are still there Korg, moog, waldorf, dsi, yamaha,roland, akai etc etc
Do you work for access too?? its a good synth - no doubt but i question it being over 2 grand, when you can get 90% of the spec on the radias for half the price = win!!

I don't work for access - the TI snow is like 600.... and as per the first reply - if he didn't need super saws then it's a win - and also if he's Mac based.

Moog another contender tone-wise (and for the knobs/ease of use) - the others nooooooo.

I have the Powercore at present, wouldn't go near a TI again (i've had 3 in this house), as they have problems with multiple Firewire hardware devices on Win based systems.

If i had a mac i'd get the snow - plenty of power and the same tone as the big brothers.

Sacred_git

Neurojazz wrote: »

I don't work for access - the TI snow is like 600.... and as per the first reply - if he didn't need super saws then it's a win - and also if he's Mac based.

Moog another contender tone-wise (and for the knobs/ease of use) - the others nooooooo.

I have the Powercore at present, wouldn't go near a TI again (i've had 3 in this house), as they have problems with multiple Firewire hardware devices on Win based systems.

If i had a mac i'd get the snow - plenty of power and the same tone as the big brothers.

the snow is quite difficult to use if you want to twidsle knobs, you have to dive into menus upon menus, not ideal, whilst the radias has it all there(more or less) in front of you. moog yes and also dsi higher end synths such as the poly evolver and prophet 08 are majestic too
Was looking at powercore myself, a lot of people seem to prefer the uad gear more though, i have settled for the duende mini - not quite the same but great for mastering, would like powercore too though

also the snow has a amount of voices compared to its big brothers and the radias

seannash

Sacred_git wrote: »

stick with hardware and be a true musician!!!

oh jesus christ:rolleyes:

Neurojazz

Sacred_git wrote: »

the snow is quite difficult to use if you want to twidsle knobs.

In use, in a project, the idea is that you'd use the VST 'pop up' user interface that is really open and huge / easy to use and then just use a couple of knobs on the TI to 'control' sweeps and jam - the 'unlimited freedom' of knobs all over (like korgs/moogs etc...) is great, but to a point a bit of a time waster for a writer. Think of it like this.... if you half know what you are doing, then you'll know the parameters you want to mess with... you could stumble across a knob on the VST end and then assign that for a live performance/live recording.

If the OP had asked for something to really experiment with sound, then we'd be pointing them at modular analogs and a bank loan.

The solution i suggest is purely and optimal/boring one with no frills and does the job with a sound that leaves no buyers remorse


The powercore... i have most the plugins for it... i only use the virus in it now... everything else as you said... UAD and Duende (the duende still leaves me jaw dropped)

I seriously cannot get over the presence of the virus in a mix - the waldorfs used to be the same (but were harsher) - really sweet sound.

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

oh jesus christ:rolleyes:

haha - as long as the OP doesn't start a mac/pc debate we're safe

seannash

Neurojazz wrote: »

haha - as long as the OP doesn't start a mac/pc debate we're safe

we are due a good old mac/pc royal rumble

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

we are due a good old mac/pc royal rumble

We'll have to agree to give Mac users a handicap this time though

seannash

Neurojazz wrote: »

We'll have to agree to give Mac users a handicap this time though

im gonna pull out my new finishing manouver called the "it just works"suplex

followed by the "no viruses"leglock

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

im gonna pull out my new finishing manouver called the "it just works"suplex

followed by the "no viruses"leglock

I heard Mr. Jobs wanted to comment, but had some connectivity problems

Sacred_git

seannash wrote: »

oh jesus christ:rolleyes:

roll your eyes all you want - this is the truth, i take it your another softsynth head, that produces multiple tracks each week!!!! hardware rules period..i myself use all analogue gear theres simply no comparision, digitial synths too are far better than vsts and hell if you ever made it you could actually bring some instruments on stage!!!!

Neurojazz

Sacred_git wrote: »

hell if you ever made it you could actually bring some instruments on stage!!!!

What stage lol? - it's all DJ booths these days

seannash

Sacred_git wrote: »

roll your eyes all you want - this is the truth, i take it your another softsynth head, that produces multiple tracks each week!!!! hardware rules period..i myself use all analogue gear theres simply no comparision, digitial synths too are far better than vsts and hell if you ever made it you could actually bring some instruments on stage!!!!

no i have hardware and software.

so by your ridiculous criteria i must amount some hardware synths to be a musician?

doesnt matter if i can play the instruments,i just have to have them.

and even if i was a softsynth head or a hardware head how does that affect the amount of tracks i produce in a week.

your talking out your arse mate,i sincerely hope the OP doesnt listen to your "advice"

bluff1989

Hey bud, ive been producing for a couple of years on and off.. just want to get darker grittier sounding synth and something to fiddle around with .also move to a setup which i can use just hardware if i want to without having to touch the mac or pc or whatever.

im currently using komplete 5 and few other vst predator waves bundle. i seem to always go back to the same **** though i was on a big massive buzz and it went and ruined about 3 or 4 projects on me. thank god i had exported them thats part of the reason im moving to mac aswell i want my **** secure as **** and have the machine just for music nothign else will be touching it aswell as logic :P. where as my pc - lol everything under the sun is on it.
also have reason there aswell which i rewire to ableton the odd time. but i want to get the best possible sound i can whilst i have the money there to invest as i wouldnt spend it any other way. my first love to be honest and always will be. and will hopefully be doing the upgrade before going back to college .. studying sound engineering.

Wat would you guys go for if you had 10-12k to spend?

Neurojazz

bluff1989 wrote: »

Wat would you guys go for if you had 10-12k to spend?

I'd do some research for your genre.

If you think logically, you could probably get away with 1 really nice synth (one pair of hands right?) and the rest on some effects/uad/duende/etc..

Then put some good money into monitors (speak to Paul Brewer in the commercial thread about monitors - i think he can get most things cheaper)

Nice synth / nice effect / nice monitors = happy writer.

But you need to ask around producers making your style of material to get what you want.

My initial feeling is either Moog for basses or TI for tearing it up.

You'd have NO buyers remorse, but need to do some research in regards to compatibility with your exact setup. There are many pitfalls that throwing money at won't cure!

seannash

bluff1989 wrote: »

Hey bud, ive been producing for a couple of years on and off.. just want to get darker grittier sounding synth and something to fiddle around with .also move to a setup which i can use just hardware if i want to without having to touch the mac or pc or whatever.

im currently using komplete 5 and few other vst predator waves bundle. i seem to always go back to the same **** though i was on a big massive buzz and it went and ruined about 3 or 4 projects on me. thank god i had exported them thats part of the reason im moving to mac aswell i want my **** secure as **** and have the machine just for music nothign else will be touching it aswell as logic :P. where as my pc - lol everything under the sun is on it.
also have reason there aswell which i rewire to ableton the odd time. but i want to get the best possible sound i can whilst i have the money there to invest as i wouldnt spend it any other way. my first love to be honest and always will be. and will hopefully be doing the upgrade before going back to college .. studying sound engineering.

Wat would you guys go for if you had 10-12k to spend?

the general concensus would be to get your room treated and a good set of moniotors(maybe you have these already)

i dont think you should blow your budget on a list of stuff.buy a synth and see whats lacking in your setup after that.

as for effects your gonna be surprised with the quality of logics plugins.i dont think you need to buy hardware effects.if you really want to though id say a compressor and reverb would be the only ones to consider as every other effect has a software equivalent that rivals the hardware(id even say so do the reverb and compressors but people will argue otherwise)


12k is a lot of money and not to sound too condescending but you seem a little lost with all this.im pretty sure the vst bundles would be capable of producing the sounds you want so i think its more a case of the user and not the tools.

is it a case of the tone of the sounds your creating or is it the sounds your making all sound the same as before(ie you cant recreate the sounds you want)

bluff1989

I have an idea. No not that i was going back to the same sounds or it was sounding the same could get what im looking for most of the time i wasnt really programming synths just customising presets mainly i will be learning though i have an idea what alot of the functions do on em and can customise sounds to near enough where i want em. .back to the same vst massive buzz, pity its ****ing up all me tracks now so i cant even touch it ill need ta wipe down the whole computer i have reinstalled and even reinstalled live8 soft synths suck in that sense. Aswell if i wer to go to mac i would be expecting **** all crashes and im pretty sure it would deliver it does my head in when a project randomly closes and ****. im not into control surfaces im using mpd32 and remote sl and i just find the knobs flimsy and not very responsive. sick of looking at a computer screen constantly want the option of being able to step away from the pc for a while have a sequencer on the mpc and record all into that. wen im up to it then bring it all over to the daw and finish the tune.

Monitors are in the mix aswell ima be using my old set aswell currently using a set of m-audio bx5as so they do warrant an upgrade saying that theyre great monitors for the price and i really love em :P.. they will stay with me tbh ill probably move them off desk and over to where i mix on stands or get a shelf or something.

Apprciate replies folks alot..
ta again ste..

seannash

bluff1989 wrote: »

I have an idea. No not that i was going back to the same sounds or it was sounding the same could get what im looking for most of the time i wasnt really programming synths just customising presets mainly i will be learning though i have an idea what alot of the functions do on em and can customise sounds to near enough where i want em. .back to the same vst massive buzz, pity its ****ing up all me tracks now so i cant even touch it ill need ta wipe down the whole computer i have reinstalled and even reinstalled live8 soft synths suck in that sense. Aswell if i wer to go to mac i would be expecting **** all crashes and im pretty sure it would deliver it does my head in when a project randomly closes and ****. im not into control surfaces im using mpd32 and remote sl and i just find the knobs flimsy and not very responsive. sick of looking at a computer screen constantly want the option of being able to step away from the pc for a while have a sequencer on the mpc and record all into that. wen im up to it then bring it all over to the daw and finish the tune.

Monitors are in the mix aswell ima be using my old set aswell currently using a set of m-audio bx5as so they do warrant an upgrade saying that theyre great monitors for the price and i really love em :P.. they will stay with me tbh ill probably move them off desk and over to where i mix on stands or get a shelf or something.

Apprciate replies folks alot..
ta again ste..

please dont take this the wrong way but your coming across as person who is a bit inexperienced at this(which is fine)

throwing money at the problem isnt gonna fix it.plus im not sure what you mean by wiping out your tracks.
if you mean the programme crashes due to the softsynths overloading the cpu then a new better spec'd computer should solve this,not a hardware synth.

you sound a bit confused as to whats giving you problems.
you say you can get the sounds you want so why do you need a hardware synth.

if your big issue is crashs then get a new computer.

i understand the whole stepping away from the compute thing but your really have to face facts,you cant escape the computer.editing is part of the process.noone likes it but it has to be done.


you dont sound like an audiophile(ie someone who is hyper critical of sounds) so i dont think you need to concern yourself with hardware effects or even synths to be honest as you cant really recognise the reasons these areaa are giving you problems

seannash

also,please type your sentences properly.i had to reread your message 3 times to understand it.

please use correct spelling(or somewhat correct spelling)

i know its a minor gripe but were not 14 year olds round here

alan kelly

Mac is obviously much better:D....

Bought native instruments komplete pack and it is a savage piece of kit. Its a program that i dont think i will ever fully understand. The more i work with it the more i learn and the sounds are amazing.

Also think it was seannash who said get your room treated and a good set of moniotors. This is the most important sentence in this whole debate. It dont matter whether its hardware or software if your room is "less than perfect";)

As far as the hardware/software debate goes i suppose its just a matter of opinion. If we all liked the same stuff life would be very dull although no one on here can deny that sonnox/waves/ni/izotope ect ect dont make quality stuff.

bluff1989

seannash wrote: »

please dont take this the wrong way but your coming across as person who is a bit inexperienced at this(which is fine)

throwing money at the problem isnt gonna fix it.plus im not sure what you mean by wiping out your tracks.
if you mean the programme crashes due to the softsynths overloading the cpu then a new better spec'd computer should solve this,not a hardware synth.

you sound a bit confused as to whats giving you problems.
you say you can get the sounds you want so why do you need a hardware synth.

if your big issue is crashs then get a new computer.

i understand the whole stepping away from the compute thing but your really have to face facts,you cant escape the computer.editing is part of the process.noone likes it but it has to be done.


you dont sound like an audiophile(ie someone who is hyper critical of sounds) so i dont think you need to concern yourself with hardware effects or even synths to be honest as you cant really recognise the reasons these areaa are giving you problems

Why buy a new computer when i have a core i7 with 2gb of ram which was fine up until the projects just started closing without any sort of error when i open massive. i didnt ask to be questioned on why im buying a new hardware synth or why i'm buying a mac. I couldnt give a **** about my spelling and i also really dont care what you think. I asked for a bit of advice on what to buy we arent in an english class here either. Who doesnt want a better warmer sound, a machine thats not giving you problems. And i do know why its crashing yeah because of the software ive tried everything i could find on the net and nothing seems to help it. Everytime this happens i usually wipe down the machine but why should i do that when i can buy a mac logic and ableton and not have a problem with a hardware synth. makes sense to me? I mightnt be that technical with this stuff but i do know my stuff when it comes to computers.

I open ableton open massive and the software just closes not an error or anything cpu hits about . As far as i know its a problem with NI. not arsed with glitchy vst when i can afford to get a few hardware synths in the coming months with better sounds etc and a more hands on this is how i learn not through books and crap. I know i cant avoid editing in desktop.. i said i wanted the option to be able to move away from it. 1% the cpu hits when i open massive and it just instantly closes. Nothing to do with my hardware thanks. ive reinstalled ableton - massive aswell and tried some fixes i found seems theres a problem with the vst itself. aswell as that a pc is for general **** a mac is definitely where its at when it comes to daw simply no competition with a pc. ill keep that for games general **** browsing the web. I want a machine just for music that simply works. No ballacks.
and mac seems to be where its at.

I am very critical of sounds and find nearly all vst very thinny and i can see the lack of warmth. Why settle for less than the best i wont be and yeah throwing money at this can very easily solve my problems because there arent many. Dunno about you guys but i certainly wont be settling for less than the best. no need to comment anymore seanash i have a few friends that will help me out without criticising my spelling ta.

Android 666

bluff1989 wrote: »

Why buy a new computer when i have a core i7 with 2gb of ram which was fine up until the projects just started closing without any sort of error when i open massive. i didnt ask to be questioned on why im buying a new hardware synth or why i'm buying a mac. I couldnt give a **** about my spelling and i also really dont care what you think. I asked for a bit of advice on what to buy we arent in an english class here either. Who doesnt want a better warmer sound, a machine thats not giving you problems. And i do know why its crashing yeah because of the software ive tried everything i could find on the net and nothing seems to help it. Everytime this happens i usually wipe down the machine but why should i do that when i can buy a mac logic and ableton and not have a problem with a hardware synth. makes sense to me? I mightnt be that technical with this stuff but i do know my stuff when it comes to computers.

I open ableton open massive and the software just closes not an error or anything cpu hits about . As far as i know its a problem with NI. not arsed with glitchy vst when i can afford to get a few hardware synths in the coming months with better sounds etc and a more hands on this is how i learn not through books and crap. I know i cant avoid editing in desktop.. i said i wanted the option to be able to move away from it. 1% the cpu hits when i open massive and it just instantly closes. Nothing to do with my hardware thanks. ive reinstalled ableton - massive aswell and tried some fixes i found seems theres a problem with the vst itself. aswell as that a pc is for general **** a mac is definitely where its at when it comes to daw simply no competition with a pc. ill keep that for games general **** browsing the web. I want a machine just for music that simply works. No ballacks.
and mac seems to be where its at.

I am very critical of sounds and find nearly all vst very thinny and i can see the lack of warmth. Why settle for less than the best i wont be and yeah throwing money at this can very easily solve my problems because there arent many. Dunno about you guys but i certainly wont be settling for less than the best. no need to comment anymore seanash i have a few friends that will help me out without criticising my spelling ta.

I think sean is just trying to point out that your posts are incredibly difficult to follow. I've reread this a couple of times and tbh I'm still fairly lost. You say that you want a machine that simply works but from all accounts it doesn't sound like your mac is really fulfilling that part of your brief anymore. I think people were questioning you over why you wanted buy equipment to better understand your needs and to try and help you make the right decision - it wasn't the spanish inquisition. I think most people on here will tell you it would be very easy to spend 10-12k on equipment and still be missing a lot of what you really need to produce the quality sounds your hoping to make and ending up with a lot of equipment which will be completely redundant to you. I think it would be best to sort out your room and monitors (something I unfortunately haven't got the luxury of doing) and buying one synth to start off with and going from there. Also I think it sounds like your mac could do with replacing or bumping up the ram - something doesn't sound right there.

Neurojazz

bluff1989 wrote: »

was fine up until the projects just started closing without any sort of error when i open massive.

That error is usually when it finds 2 instances of the VST (maybe you have 2 folders with the massive dll in different folders for different DAW)

I had this exact problem with a couple of them and removing one of them solved it - (it came from moving into another DAW that needed the vst dll copying over to a single folder etc...)

Hope that helps.