Cheating in the Leaving Cert

coolguy68

MonTheBiffy wrote: »

Hello State Examinations Commission,
we all know you are reading these so heres a question. What does the Leaving Cert mean? This is to those of you sitting it too. Does it show how good you are at Biology or Art? What good is that to you if you get a job in a bank? The whole thing is showing your ability to learn and take in information. If you are cheating you are cheating yourself, your future employers and cheating others out of college places and jobs. Your morals and ethics leave a lot to be desired. I realise the pressure and the sense of pointlessness to some of the exams Im sitting them myself but if this is the level our youth will stoop to then we as a society have failed and it is a damning indication as to the state of of country as a whole.

Yours truly,
An honest student.

let me tell yo bout my bff the SEC

he this cool cat, he don't give two damns about your damn troubles, son. He don't give a darn if you think that here exam be pointlesss, you hear? SEC hates constructive feedback as much as he hates his middle aged white self.

Let me tell u bout the SEC on this thread. We be drinkin' 'n' talkin' last night, spikin' too, real good like, and I was like "that thread on that computer thingie on that here boards site, you bout it?", and he goes "Man, I'm all about it. Nah, I kid, I don't give a damn. I smoke weed everyday, that's all I do.

"Any plans on fixing the yo yo system to deter the cheating, yo?", "Nahh, man. U mad, son. We done have the same system for LIGHTYEARS now. Man, you know how much dough I'd need to waste to change it? Uncountable, yo."

yeh he be like that

SEC he just don't give a damn.

cynder

Mick Daly wrote: »

Someone will watch her take her sugar.

Would they check her blood sugar eqipment to make sure no notes hidden?

Would she leave the room or would she stay in the room? it could take 15 mins for her blood sugars to rise. Would she loose the 15 min exam time or will they give it to her at the end?

Sorry havent been in a 'diabetic in exam' situation before. When it gets to the time of her jc i will be better informed.

Bicycle

As someone who has supervised exams at third level, I'm surprised about the fact that it appears supervisors DON'T check bathrooms.

When I was working in that role, one of us regularly got the short straw and had to check the bathrooms for books or bags (mobile phones weren't around then!!) or any odd sheets of paper.

Anything found - and we did find stuff - was confiscated.

As invigilators we had responsibility to maintain the integrity of the examinations.

We walked around the centres, we watched, we watched the nervous students, we watched the confident students, we watched the restless students, we watched everyone. If there was any suspicion a number of people watched from different angles. Sometimes we were justified, other times we weren't.

There were some beauties that we caught, some people DID go to an AWFUL lot of trouble, and I'm sure there were others who got away.

But at the end of the day, cheating is like stealing.

Leaving Cert Points are a currency. They effectively buy you a place on a course in University. If someone cheats, they're getting more currency than they should have and will use that currency to get whatever they can. It doesn't matter whether its a high cost or a low cost course. Someone, somewhere, may lose out on a place because of them.

We're all great at defending and protecting our Euros. We need to protect our points currency as well.

Kudos to whoever reported this. Whether its a parent or someone not logged in or even the OP. I'm not going to cry crocodile tears for someone who cheated. Each of us is responsible for our own decisions.

cynder

buzsywuzsy wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about that, she can get an exam room all to herself

Are you serious?

Mick Daly

The SEC are insufferable arseholes. They can't do anything. I'll get my marks. Sorry SEC but you're too late, better luck next time.

Hank Scorpio

snip

Mick Daly

grindelwald wrote: »

Are you serious?

Yes. She probably will. The disabled and down syndrome kids also get it. It's no big deal.

Toto Wolfcastle

grindelwald wrote: »

Are you serious?

Special centres are available to students who need them. From what you have said about your daughter I'd imagine that she would be a candidate for a special centre. This would mean that she would be in a separate room with her own supervisor. For example, a girl I teach is currently quite ill so she has a separate centre.

Mick Daly

nuxxx wrote: »

For anyone thinking of cheating in an exam, whether now or next year, dont do it, trust me, the guilt and fear afterwards wont leave you for a long time

The "fear" will leave when you get the college place. Not all people are like "buxxx".

tip_top

im not sure much can be done tbh. As far as i know the supervisor has to catch the cheater himself, all you can do is bring it to their attention (remember you could be a spiteful git who is making up crap - im not saying you are but you know). A girl in a school up from me was cheating last year, like im taking an entire Irish essay on flipcards. Somebody told on her but her exam couldnt be cancelled because there was no proof she was cheating, so they just had to keep an extre close eye on her for the rest of the exams, which she didnt cheat on because she knew she;d been told on. She was going for medicine, imagine like! Shed drop out within a week!! Its ok though, she didnt get the points :pac:

Hank Scorpio

Mick Daly wrote: »

The "fear" will leave when you get the college place. Not all people are like "buxx".

Thats true i suppose

Just reading back on this thread now, had no idea it was on the news etc

Busi_Girl08

grindelwald wrote: »

This topic makes me ask a question,

If going to the toilets is a means for cheating for some people how will that effect people with genuine needs?

I have a diabetic child (in primary school) when she is older and sits her exams she may need to check her blood sugars and have a glucose drink and something to eat, with people abusing this system it makes it harder for those with genuine issues to be trusted.

If an exam last 3 hours if she does not get enough carbs in to her she could have 1 or 2 or even 3 hypos within that time frame,or at worst have a fit and go into a coma.

I'm pretty sure your daughter would get a room on her own, in that case. Maybe one near the bathroom, with a supervisor, of course.
They would have to provide for her.
A couple of years ago a girl who had epilepsy was put in a separate room for the same reasons;
1) So she's under closer supervision incase she gets sick and needs immediate care, and the super isn't distracted watching other students,
2) So as not to distract the other students, I suppose.

Monkey09

Believe me, its not just your school that this is happening in..Exactly the same thing happened where i was..Its madness that certain students can get away with notes inside their pencil cases, notes written on their arms and hands and escaping to the bathroom every half an hour to memorise the answer to the next question...
It shocks me that one the one hand we hear non-stop about the unfairness of the points system and on the other hand there is a whole other level of students cheating and gaining an extra 30-40 points they didnt do anything to deserve...
On entering my college course (which is very much sought after), i spoke to girl who stated quite openly that she had cheated in ALL her exams as she had the answers written all over her legs..The invigilator looked at her a couple of times but she gave him a look back which implied that he was some kind of paedophile and she never had problems with him again.
Something should be done about this problem. You should tell the invigilators as this kind of thing affects every LC student competing for college places. Id let the invigilator know.
Students have nothing to lose by cheating..Ive never actually heard of anyone being caught cheating and banned from sitting the LC again for 7 years.

steve22

Mick Daly wrote: »

The "fear" will leave when you get the college place. Not all people are like "buxxx".

yeah... because you deserve that college place so much more than the person who didnt cheat... :rolleyes:

greener greene

I thought loads of lads were cheating in irish paper 2 today, as about 8 people went to go use the jacks at once about half an hour in. Turns out they were all going home! :rolleyes:

tip_top

chaoticmess wrote: »

A relative of mine is doing her GCSE's, ended up in A&E one day and missed her Biology exam. Thankfully she can retake it.
But if she lived over here, and that was her leaving cert... oh dear! :eek:


QUOTE]

the GCSE's are like our JC only they need certain grades to be allowed to enter LC cycle (A levels) so its not as important as LC, thats why she'd be allowed to resit it im guessing

Mick Daly

steve22 wrote: »

yeah... because you deserve that college place so much more than the person who didnt cheat... :rolleyes:

I may not deserve it but what would I be feared about? I'll only be guilty if I let it get to me and I won't because I'll be happy and that's all that matters to me at the end of the day baby!

If you're going to cheat you have to learn to live with the consequences. I expect the result to be a good one, not a bad one. I'm positive. I don't show fear or embarrassment over cheating because if I did - it wouldn't work.

Shanotheslayer

Mick Daly wrote: »

because I'll be happy and that's all that matters to me at the end of the day baby!

So if your cousin/girlfriend/bestfriend/brother/sister whichever! was applying to the same course as you and they didn't cheat, and you did. You got into the course they didn't because it was ''full''.

So you wouldn't care that you cheating got you a spot in that college ahead of <insert list here>?

tommytomtom

Where's all this 'cheating someone out of a place' rubbish coming from?? So melodramatic it's not even funny.....And I can't imagine there's anyone who cheated in the LC who's in college now who cares about or regrets what they did. They are set up and never got caught so happy days.

While it's stating the obvious those who are saying cheating gets you nowhere should look across history and see all the cheaters who made it to the top. I'm not saying it's the best way to go about your daily life but it has served a lot of people very well in the past!

I have absolutely no guilt over cheating because I felt I had to.....I'd only be regretting it if I didn't! But that's not to say I wouldn't feel guilty if I ever cheated someone out of something tangible like money......

Let's be realistic about it here folks---there's zero chance of me getting caught with anything regardless of what I say here because there's still no proof.

XRachel91X

it's so stupid cheatin in the leaving! you dont deserve the points 4 cheatin ya deserve the points 4 the best u can do! any1 whos cheatin is cheatin sum1 who deserves it out of a place in college and its not fair!

Cabaal

halpin17 wrote: »

If you rat someone out, your effecitvely ruining their life and it's not fair. if there caught fine but it's nothing to do with u so leave them alone.just keep ur head down and just do ur own tests and stop being such a f**kin goodie two shoes. oh miss, oh miss, she's cheating....clearly not everyone is as prepared as you.

They are ruining their own lives by cheating,

Your example is like saying Gardai shouldn't go after people who drink drive as this could loose them their license and they could loose their job....you'd ruin their life
:rolleyes:

People who cheat know the risk, as such if they are caught they only have themselfs to blame. Anybody who reports these idiots is doing nothing but a good thing and deserves to be respect for being honest.

As I've outlined before, if people cheat and this causes them to get higher marks then they are taking college places from people who did the hard work.

Bottom line = cheaters are scum, always have and always will be.

cedomination

"I can't get caught so clearly it's ok" :rolleyes:

Michael 09

tommytomtom wrote: »

While it's stating the obvious those who are saying cheating gets you nowhere should look across history and see all the cheaters who made it to the top. I'm not saying it's the best way to go about your daily life but it has served a lot of people very well in the past!

Examples please....

chaoticmess

grindelwald wrote: »

Are you serious?

There's a girl in my year currently taking her leaving cert and she's got a room to herself.
Her supervisor is a teacher from the school as well, not someone different haha. I think she's lucky!!

The best thing to do would be to contact the SEC though as they'll be able to be a lot more accurate than anyone on boards. Drinks and "quiet food" are allowed into the normal exam centre, so as long as she has those she might be ok in the normal centre.....

But if you explain your concerns to them, the one thing the SEC is good at is being able to provide a separate exam centre for someone who truly needs it!:rolleyes:

tommytomtom

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

So if your cousin/girlfriend/bestfriend/brother/sister whichever! was applying to the same course as you and they didn't cheat, and you did. You got into the course they didn't because it was ''full''.

So you wouldn't care that you cheating got you a spot in that college ahead of <insert list here>?

Get real, that's never gona happen.....Stop making up ridiculous scenarios to try justify your point. And just for the record I'd rather have cheated and got in than not cheated and just missed out regardless of who missed out instead and that's the honest truth.

Bicycle

tommytomtom wrote: »

Where's all this 'cheating someone out of a place' rubbish coming from?? So melodramatic it's not even funny.....And I can't imagine there's anyone who cheated in the LC who's in college now who cares about or regrets what they did. They are set up and never got caught so happy days.

While it's stating the obvious those who are saying cheating gets you nowhere should look across history and see all the cheaters who made it to the top. I'm not saying it's the best way to go about your daily life but it has served a lot of people very well in the past!

I have absolutely no guilt over cheating because I felt I had to.....I'd only be regretting it if I didn't! But that's not to say I wouldn't feel guilty if I ever cheated someone out of something tangible like money......

Let's be realistic about it here folks---there's zero chance of me getting caught with anything regardless of what I say here because there's still no proof.

As someone who has knowledge of the system, yes, I KNOW that those who cheat are cheating others out of places.

So, you go from an E to a D2, not much in the scale of things. But if your D2 denies someone with a D3 from getting their place in college, thats doing them out of a place.

Universities in Ireland are not bodies with infinite spaces. There are limits on those who can attend. The way those limits are enforced is by taking those with most points, who have applied and who qualify for the courses.

And if you have more currency than someone else - then you get the place, even if you acquired this currency dishonestly.

Come down off your ivory tower, look yourself in the mirror and deal with reality.

Things wouldn't be as straightforward if it was your child fighting for a place......

chaoticmess

tip_top wrote: »

the GCSE's are like our JC only they need certain grades to be allowed to enter LC cycle (A levels) so its not as important as LC, thats why she'd be allowed to resit it im guessing

No, you can resit A levels too, and I know a couple of people who have done so simply because they failed the first time around. Exam resits are all done in the same academic year so no one loses a year of their life either, and the course is modular so also consists of more than one exam in most cases.

And I have to say it's a much better system overall.

buzsywuzsy

grindelwald wrote: »

Are you serious?

Yep, you can get one depending on your circumstances and needs.
You can get a reader, scribes etc.
My brother is doing his leaving this year and i think his friend got a room because his family were having problems. When I did the leaving a person in my year got a room because of stress.

Wile E. Coyote

tommytomtom wrote: »

Let's be realistic about it here folks---there's zero chance of me getting caught with anything regardless of what I say here because there's still no proof.

What makes you think there's zero chance of getting caught? If your so confident then post the name of your school.

Also...

Last year, the Commission withheld 83 grades from students across a range of subjects following a similar investigation.

... so something can and will be done about it.

Busi_Girl08

tommytomtom wrote: »

Get real, that's never gona happen.....Stop making up ridiculous scenarios to try justify your point.

They aren't ridiculous. They happen every year. People miss out on their course by a tiny margin, even though they worked their ass off, and someone else gets in because they cheated, and acted all self-indulgant.

And just for the record I'd rather have cheated and got in than not cheated and just missed out regardless of who missed out instead and that's the honest truth.

Well I don't know what to tell you, mate. I've no idea how you sleep at night.

Good luck in college.