Cheating in the Leaving Cert

annoyed lc student

annoyed lc student wrote: »

i'm doing my leaving cert too this year and there's a girl in my room cheating. everyday she hands up her old mobile phone at the door before going in so ask not to arouse suspicion. and everyday she then proceeds to take her actual mobile from her pocket, place it on her lap and copy all the answers down that she needs. she's been planning this with weeks and has most of every course typed up on her phone, she hasn't tried to hide it either- before the leaving cert everyone overheard her speak of how she was going to cheat. our school principal has been told as loads of people have seen her cheating all during the exams, but nothing has been done. she's sitting in the very back corner of the exam centre, where the security cameras can't see what she's doing. it really annoys me, as she's an a1 student in a lot of her subjects due to the fact that she has cheated in every exam in 5th and 6th year


thats the post

Send the Irish Times/Independant the details and see if they will run with it.

wonderfulname

Deleted User wrote: »

Send the Irish Times the details and see if they will run with it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0615/1224272522104.html

Ms.Forbes

Samskeyti wrote: »

There's cheating happening in my school, the majority of students use the fact that the toilets are in our P.E hall and that the superintendents have no reason to follow them in. The students hide notes written from before the exam in their socks and pants and some even got away with having a phone on their lap for an entire paper and reading saved messages from it. Others used the bathroom to call students from other schools and got full answers on questions.

Our principal is a complete waster as students were caught cheating in the L.C.V.P exam and nothing was done about it. I thought if you were caught cheating that you couldn't sit another state exam? Should I inform the superintendents of how stupid they're being or e-mail the State Examinations Commission? I know for definate that Irish will be the exam that most will cheat on because of learning notes off by heart will prove too much effort for them. Help??

yes it happened in the irish listening exam too some students kept the exam paper from the essay on their desk during the listening exam - hello like is that a help or what??

wonderfulname

wonderfulname wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0615/1224272522104.html

Referring to the high ranking ex official. Papers love to knock politicians.

Healium

Got a reply from the SEC:

The SEC will investigate thoroughly any suggestion, suspicion or allegation of impropriety in relation to the examinations. A number of sanctions may be applied in the event of proven allegations. These may include the withholding of a result in the subject concerned, or the withholding of the result of the entire examination from a candidate, or debarring a candidate from entering for any of the state examinations for a specified period.

Given the scale of the state examinations, it is inevitable that alleged irregularities will occasionally arise. These could involve, for example, allegations of copying, issues of authenticity, verification or impersonation, non-compliance with regulations or the use of inappropriate source material in portfolio work.

I am attaching for your information the Instructions and Regulations for the Conduct of Candidates during Examinations. These Instructions and Regulations form part of the Candidate Information Booklet which is issued to all candidates prior to the commencement of the examinations. It also forms part of the Rules and Programmes for Secondary Schools. In addition, a warning notice of the Regulations is posted in all examination centres.

Cases that merit further investigation come to light in a number of ways.

1. An examination superintendent may detect a candidate using a book or other written work, or an electronic device, such as a mobile phone, or attempting to contact another candidate in the centre. The Superintendent warns the candidate and submits a report of the incident to the State Examinations Commission.

2. An examiner may detect similar work from more than one candidate when correcting work from the same centre

3. An examiner may detect work that exhibits evidence of not being the candidate’s own unaided work

4. While marking an examination script, an examiner may discover memorandum, notes or paper brought in by a candidate in an attempt to gain an advantage in the examination.

The State Examinations Commission applies the principles of natural justice when following-up such cases. The first action taken is that the result is withheld on a without prejudice basis pending further investigation. Details of the evidence available- Superintendents reports, confiscated material, confiscated devices, notes, work prepared that exhibits evidence of collusion- is provided to the candidate through his/her entering school. The candidate is invited to offer a response to the evidence presented and the school authorities are also free to offer comment if they consider it appropriate. When the candidate's response is received it is considered at a senior level in the State Examinations Commission and a final decision is made to withhold the result, to apply a more serious sanction (see below) or to release the result and take no further action. Details of the final decision are communicated in writing to the candidate again via his/her school. A decision to withhold a result is open to appeal.

In most cases the final sanction applied is the withholding of the result in the subject. Where a more serious breach of the regulations occurs, e.g. copying in more than one subject, withholding of all of the results of the examination and/or debarring the candidate from repeating the examination may be applied.

The entire matter remains confidential between the State Examinations Commission, the candidate and their school.

In 2009 at Leaving Certificate, 83 grades were withheld in a number of subjects and programmes including Biology, Mathematics, Irish, LCVP Link Modules, Business, English, Home Economics, Art, History, Geography, Physics, Agricultural Science, Engineering and LCA. In addition, 9 Junior Certificate grades were withheld. Grades were withheld following thorough investigation, including contact with the schools, and through the school authorities, with the candidates concerned. This afforded the candidates the opportunity to respond to the issues under consideration by the State Examinations Commission. The withholding of results is open to appeal.

The SEC is not prepared to comment on any issues relating to investigations of breaches of regulations in the 2010 examinations as any such investigations are ongoing. We will however provide information, as we do every year, following the issue of the Leaving Certificate results in August on the number of grades withheld following the conclusion of this year's examinations.

wonderfulname

Deleted User wrote: »

Referring to the high ranking ex official. Papers love to knock politicians.

Aah indeed, sorry, to be honest they're probably reading and going crazy as we speak, wouldn't be surprised if annoyed lc student gets a PM from the sun or something..

fufureida

Michael 09 wrote: »

I do not believe for one second that you were allowed to use an iPhone during a LC exam.

Fail

Wow. People lie about everything these days.

Hey guys I bought my boobs in tesco last week.

blankguitarist

Ms.Forbes wrote: »

yes it happened in the irish listening exam too some students kept the exam paper from the essay on their desk during the listening exam - hello like is that a help or what??

I don't think so. The people who make the exam papers would make sure that nothing on Paper 1 could help you with Paper 2 or the Aural. Like, the themes wouldn't overlap.

corkguy2010

I'm a leaving cert student sitting the exams right now and i don't see what the major fuss is?? the way people hav mentioned hw the cheatin is happenin wit pages in your socks and txtin answers into your phone before the exam that's not going to help in the slightest....... The courses are massive and rarely predicted properly (eavan boland ne1??!!) And at best they are only goin to raise they're mark in one question by a few points which will hardly effect the grade they're goin to get so unless they've got their text book stuffed down they're jocks it hardly matters and won't reli change whether more "deserving" ppl get in2 college

Sophsxxx

I actually have a grudging admiration to those who are getting away with it....;)
I'd be the first one to get caught...I usually am!:pac:

wonderfulname

corkguy2010 wrote: »

I'm a leaving cert student sitting the exams right now and i don't see what the major fuss is?? the way people hav mentioned hw the cheatin is happenin wit pages in your socks and txtin answers into your phone before the exam that's not going to help in the slightest....... The courses are massive and rarely predicted properly (eavan boland ne1??!!) And at best they are only goin to raise they're mark in one question by a few points which will hardly effect the grade they're goin to get so unless they've got their text book stuffed down they're jocks it hardly matters and won't reli change whether more "deserving" ppl get in2 college

Say someone had brought in notes on the perfectly predicted king lear? that could easily bring them up a grade and 10points. Say you and and this cheater both got 400points and both had a 400* point course down on your cao, If he took that place ahead of you would you still feel the same? Its like an athlete on steroids it will affect their time by a matter of seconds but thats all it takes.

randylonghorn

corkguy2010 wrote: »

I'm a leaving cert student sitting the exams right now and i don't see what the major fuss is?? the way people hav mentioned hw the cheatin is happenin wit pages in your socks and txtin answers into your phone before the exam that's not going to help in the slightest....... The courses are massive and rarely predicted properly (eavan boland ne1??!!) And at best they are only goin to raise they're mark in one question by a few points which will hardly effect the grade they're goin to get so unless they've got their text book stuffed down they're jocks it hardly matters and won't reli change whether more "deserving" ppl get in2 college

corkguy2010, welcome to boards.ie

Please note that this site does not welcome textspeak.

Ms.Forbes wrote: »

yes it happened in the irish listening exam too some students kept the exam paper from the essay on their desk during the listening exam - hello like is that a help or what??

While it might be some small help, it's pretty small potatoes in terms of what has been discussed / alleged here.

anonymous_joe

Been five years since I did my Leaving Cert. (Christ, I feel old.)

Quite clearly a fair number of people were doing their best to stretch the rules. Who cares? If you're smarter than the morons who run the exam centres, how is it your fault?

randylonghorn

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Been five years since I did my Leaving Cert. (Christ, I feel old.)

Quite clearly a fair number of people were doing their best to stretch the rules. Who cares? If you're smarter than the morons who run the exam centres, how is it your fault?

Being smarter that those who run the centres is hardly a problem.

Using that to act dishonestly is the problem surely?

melissavm

challengemaster wrote: »

They could also be cheating someone else out of a fair, deserved college spot.

So yes, at the end of the day, it affects everyone else. Report the ***** and I hope every single one is banned from state exams.

i agree completely.

Sigi

wow when i left this morning the thread was 18 pages,now its 50!

One thing I've seen people doing is recording themselves reading out notes,putting on their ipod,earphone us sleeve and leaning on their hand while copying out the answers.Seems to be working pretty well.

unknown13

I don't see why I who has put in long hours studying should be denied a spot in university by someone who did a lot less work than me and cheated the exam.

blankguitarist

I was thinking actually. Technically, are you not cheating by learning off an essay? It's something most people do, and a lot of the time people will hand up identical essays, especially for History and English. It doesn't sound like much, but i know for a fact that in LCVP, Engineering, and DCG, which we did portfolios for, we were warned time and time again not to plagerise or copy eachother's work. They said if any of us had simliar or identical material we'd be investigated, and our grades would be witheld.
BUT, in written exams, people (especially in grind schools, but also in my school, which is a comprehensive) are handing up essays their teachers handed out to them to learn off.
Just a thought.

randylonghorn

blankguitarist wrote: »

I was thinking actually. Technically, are you not cheating by learning off an essay? It's something most people do, and a lot of the time people will hand up identical essays, especially for History and English. It doesn't sound like much, but i know for a fact that in LCVP, Engineering, and DCG, which we did portfolios for, we were warned time and time again not to plagerise or copy eachother's work. They said if any of us had simliar or identical material we'd be investigated, and our grades would be witheld.
BUT, in written exams, people (especially in grind schools, but also in my school, which is a comprehensive) are handing up essays their teachers handed out to them to learn off.
Just a thought.

A very interesting thought / question indeed.

Sigi

unknown13 wrote: »

I don't see why I who has put in long hours studying should be denied a spot in university by someone who did a lot less work than me and cheated the exam.

It's about getting the points not how you get them.If they get in ahead of you thats unfortunate.If you decide to put in long hours and they decide to cheat,its just two different ways to get to the same place.One is just considerably easier so I can't begrudge somebody for doing it.

Healium

blankguitarist wrote: »

I was thinking actually. Technically, are you not cheating by learning off an essay? It's something most people do, and a lot of the time people will hand up identical essays, especially for History and English. It doesn't sound like much, but i know for a fact that in LCVP, Engineering, and DCG, which we did portfolios for, we were warned time and time again not to plagerise or copy eachother's work. They said if any of us had simliar or identical material we'd be investigated, and our grades would be witheld.
BUT, in written exams, people (especially in grind schools, but also in my school, which is a comprehensive) are handing up essays their teachers handed out to them to learn off.
Just a thought.

That's a problem with the whole system, though. I agree completely, rote learning bags any eejit an A1 if they're stubborn enough and willing to sacrifice any originality left in them. I refused.

I might learn a few abstracts for French tomorrow (mainly just vocab), but I refused to learn off answers for exams. I learned the work, and forged my own answer

The problem with rote learning (with English, anyway) is that they can throw in their learned answer into any vaguely similar question, and losr lots of Clarity Of Purpose marks

Still, rote learning is a plague

But, I wouldn't consider it cheating. Its a flaw in the system. NOT that a flaw in the system isn't how you cheat, but...

Continuous assessment FTW. Stupid rote learners spend two weeks working before the LC, while I work from 5th year, and we'll get similar grades

the_barfly1

unknown13 wrote: »

I don't see why I who has put in long hours studying should be denied a spot in university by someone who did a lot less work than me and cheated the exam.

Because they're the real entrepreneurs, the risk takers, the ones that are willing to do anything in their power to rise to the top...
These are the Bill Gates, Richard Bransons, Steve Jobs, Michael O'Learys of this world...
Nobody ever got rich playing by the rules, because the rules are in place to make sure that the majority fail!!!

He who dares, wins... :pac:

He who doesn't.... Gets his/her college place anyway but ends up working in the same job for 20+ years because they don't really have the killer instinct that makes them a true businessperson... :eek:



Really gotta stop dropping in here.... Jeez its been 7 years since I went through this myself....!

unknown13

Sigi wrote: »

It's about getting the points not how you get them.If they get in ahead of you thats unfortunate.If you decide to put in long hours and they decide to cheat,its just two different ways to get to the same place.One is just considerably easier so I can't begrudge somebody for doing it.

Getting them in a fair manner IE STUDYING is just as important to me because at least I have the satisfaction that I worked my ass off by putting in the hours and taking the benefits of my work

Ferris_Bueller

Jayz, last time I looked at this thread yesterday there was only about 15 pages, then heard this morning it was on the news and BANG up to 50 pages now! At first this thread really bothered me, I couldn't believe someone would tell an examiner or the SEC that someone was cheating, personally still think it's a bit harsh. But then again I do agree cheating is wrong and unfair, wouldn't do it myself.

Perhaps it's just stress from exams, but is it just me or are other people thinking people are taking the LC waaaay too seriously? Fair enough, it probably is the biggest exam we've done in our lives to date and it could determine our college places but whats with this attitude of "I NEED to get 600 points because i NEED to do medicine in *insert college here*"? Nobody really NEEDS to get a certain amount of points, it's just pressure you've built up in your head.

Also, there seems to be a lot of elitism ongoing in this thread, with such things as people looking down on ITs, accusing anyone who sticks up for cheaters of cheating or saying that it won't matter to the students who are only going to get around 300 points or so, we plan on going to college too you know!! However I believe you get what you deserve in life most of the time, and if you deserve to get the points you're aiming for you will (if not don't panic, there is probably another way around to it). If people cheat, yes it is unfair - but they will get found out eventually, whether it's on a big scale such as getting their papers cancelled or way smaller such as when they're older being unable to help their children with simple things in school because they always cheated. It will balance out.

Good luck with the rest of your exams people, not long to go now.

sdanseo

Plenty of narrowminded eejits here wasting everyone's time by asking what the big deal is. It's dead simple - the points system is already way too competitive and unfair and cheating only makes it more so. It's selfish, amazingly stupid and just plain wrong.

However I can see the attraction. The system puts horrific pressure on students who need to do well- some courses still need 550+ points even after what's been done with medical subjects - and some will obviously see no other way to get the points they need. Others will suffer terribly memorising pointless verses and texts and formulae which will have absolutely no relevance in later life. Higher level subjects need to be reformatted to become less repetitive and "learn-by-heart" and more applied along the lines of college exams.

By the way, are journalists actually permitted to quote users here without any form of permission from either boards.ie or the user?

Quoting from the boards.ie TOS:

You own all of the Material you post on Boards.ie and we do not claim ownership of that Material.

I had at least one email before asking permission to talk to me abouit a subject from a paper I won't name - which I refused - but privately, God help any idiot of a journalist who prints anything I've said here.

Healium

blankguitarist wrote: »

Yea, I'm the same, I refused to learn anything off. It was the cause of a lot of **** between me and a few of my teachers, but for the most part they respected it.

The English paper this year seemed to discourage learning answers off though. Like, no Boland, and the single text and comparative questions were very broad. No proofs on either Maths paper too, I was delighted.

Power to originality!

Also, Chris?

the_barfly1

unknown13 wrote: »

Getting them in a fair manner IE STUDYING is just as important to me because at least I have the satisfaction that I worked my ass off by putting in the hours and taking the benefits of my work

Step outside of school and you'll realise that "Fairness", is usually quite far down on a companies list of priorities when it comes to making money...

Three most important factors:
1 - PROFIT
2 - COST
3 - SPEED

If you let little things like a few blokes cheating in their leaving get to you, you're gonna get swallowed up by all the big fish once you step outside of that bubble....

randylonghorn

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Because they're the real entrepreneurs, the risk takers, the ones that are willing to do anything in their power to rise to the top...
These are the Bill Gates, Richard Bransons, Steve Jobs, Michael O'Learys of this world...
Nobody ever got rich playing by the rules, because the rules are in place to make sure that the majority fail!!!

He who dares, wins... :pac:

He who doesn't.... Gets his/her college place anyway but ends up working in the same job for 20+ years because they don't really have the killer instinct that makes them a true businessperson... :eek:



Really gotta stop dropping in here.... Jeez its been 7 years since I went through this myself....!

I would suggest rather that these are the Bernard Madoffs, the Kenneth Lays, the Charlie Haugheys.

Being prepared to take a risk is one thing; having no moral compass is something else again. The two can go together, but do not necessarily do so.

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Step outside of school and you'll realise that "Fairness", is usually quite far down on a companies list of priorities when it comes to making money...

Three most important factors:
1 - PROFIT
2 - COST
3 - SPEED

Most of them prefer you to stay within the law too ... if often for mercenary reasons rather than on moral grounds.

blankguitarist

Healium wrote: »

Power to originality!

Also, Chris?

wooo!
yes ian :P

the_barfly1

randylonghorn wrote: »

I would suggest rather that these are the Bernard Madoffs, the Kenneth Lays, the Charlie Haugheys.

Being prepared to take a risk is one thing; having no moral compass is something else again. The two can go together, but do not necessarily do so.

I disagree. There are no successful businesspeople with good morals, just successful businesspeople with some damn good PR