Cheating in the Leaving Cert

KnifeWRENCH

therokerroar wrote: »

What's the story about this 'salman' who's name I've seen creep up on not only this thread, but in boards.ie general, quite a bit?

^ For your viewing pleasure...

Also, can we please try and keep to the topic of the thread? (cheating in the LC) I'm sure another thread already exists if you want to debate Project Maths. Thanks.

Killer Pigeon

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

you know not every ones a book worm and has a photographic memory...

some stuff like maths is just hard to digest...and especially with the teacher i had (miss i dont get, how can u not get it i just explained it and she moves on)...lol i had no chance of passing it...

if you gave me an open book test i would still scrape it if not fail it cause text books are so poorly written...

did 6 hours grinds every weekend on maths...

2 hours of study everyday all year

took extra classes from a brilliant maths student teacher (main reason i passed maths)

so after all of that i got a D3 in ord maths...so tell me now is that being lazy to open a book...

So what if they take out a book or w/e to look at...you not gonna have an examiner breathing over your right shoulder in real life jobs...some one will always will look for advise or take out a book or google it.

lc has loads of broad subjects too...alot which have no interest to any one! so people dont take it in well...when you go to college or work and do what you like you will do better and show more initiative than you did in ur lc or any other exam...

Look, I don't know your situation or how you studied maths when you were at home but usually maths is quite different from most other subjects on offer in the leaving cert. It is more of an analytical subject based primarily on logic rather than something that involves learning off fact or verses.

The problem is many people use maths in day to day life whereas they mightn't use Biology or Irish.

In my opinion though, the main reasons that people do badly in the LC are;
(a) as I said, didn't bother there behind to open a book for the exam,
(b) had a personal issue that occured around the time of the exam
or, such as family bereavement or extreme problems relating to stress and anxiety,
(c) they had some learning problems or mightn't have took the right approach to studying a subject,
or,
(d) they didn't have good teachers in their school and didn't have the financial backing to get grinds.

I still however wouldn't have sympathy for someone who cheated in exam in any of the situations above.

Killer Pigeon

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

^ For your viewing pleasure...

Also, can we please try and keep to the topic of the thread? (cheating in the LC) I'm sure another thread already exists if you want to debate Project Maths. Thanks.

ops, sorry noted, its late and I wasn't concentrating just ranting and going off on tangents :P

Blushingblue

randylonghorn wrote: »

Not everyone is naturally good at maths, and, as we've just been discussing, not everyone is a good teacher of maths ... many people who are excellent at maths themselves can't explain it to someone who finds it difficult to save their lives.

This is so true. Maths was my favourite subject doing the Leaving, I went on to college and did modules in Maths, which I didn't find as hard as I expected. I tried to help out a friend in his maths Leaving cert this year, and I just couldn't explain it to him. I knew how to do it but could understand why he didn't get it. I'm doing a h.dip in September and even though it's a subject I'm good at and have all the right requirements to teach it, it's not my first choice as I find it hard to teach it to others.

i.need.a.job

Samskeyti wrote: »

There's cheating happening in my school, the majority of students use the fact that the toilets are in our P.E hall and that the superintendents have no reason to follow them in. The students hide notes written from before the exam in their socks and pants and some even got away with having a phone on their lap for an entire paper and reading saved messages from it. Others used the bathroom to call students from other schools and got full answers on questions.

Our principal is a complete waster as students were caught cheating in the L.C.V.P exam and nothing was done about it. I thought if you were caught cheating that you couldn't sit another state exam? Should I inform the superintendents of how stupid they're being or e-mail the State Examinations Commission? I know for definate that Irish will be the exam that most will cheat on because of learning notes off by heart will prove too much effort for them. Help??

concentrate on your own exams.. their cheating isn't going to affect your results. each to their own an all that.

challengemaster

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Ever wonder why they put in all the formulas into the log tables so students don't have to learn them? What I've been told is that the Dept realized that at any time in the future, students wouldn't be more than a minute away from being able to google the formula

Or go to reference texts, or whatever. Same thing. even doctors do it every now and again. "One second, the name just slipped my mind" when prescribing something. Nobody is expected to remember every single detail you ever take in. It's just not possible (photographic memory aside), which is where the LC is flawed... and why it's one of the harder exams you ever do.

As for people telling LC'ers to get off boards/internet - Jesus christ. A study break won't kill anyone, especially letting off a bit of steam, here or otherwise. If anything, constant studying without a break would do more harm than good.

tracker-man

i.need.a.job wrote: »

concentrate on your own exams.. their cheating isn't going to affect your results. each to their own an all that.

It affects our exam results directly. Its a competition. Bell curve. Try scrolling back a few pages...

gant0

tracker-man wrote: »

It affects our exam results directly. Its a competition. Bell curve. Try scrolling back a few pages...

Not when there is such a minority cheating.Out of say for example 10000 people there is 500 who are cheating.A majority of those cheaters are small timers(one or two equations.qoutes etc).That leaves a very small amount of people that cheat and go the whole 9 yards(full essays,books etc).What percent of people do you think do that?maybe <1%.That figure is far two small to have any significant increase in points.

challengemaster

gant0 wrote: »

Not when there is such a minority cheating.Out of say for example 10000 people there is 500 who are cheating.A majority of those cheaters are small timers(one or two equations.qoutes etc).That leaves a very small amount of people that cheat and go the whole 9 yards(full essays,books etc).What percent of people do you think do that?maybe <1%.That figure is far two small to have any significant increase in points.

But then, take into account the number of different college courses and relative points/places per course/applicants. That 1% becomes a hell of a lot bigger than negligable.

1 person who cheated getting in above another can raise the points. It's a chain reaction. It may only be by 5 points but that's more than enough to do damage.

You have a course like international science (iirc) in DCU, which has 7 places.. you get 30 applicants. Top 7 get it, and random issue for a spot if necessary. If even 1 person who cheated applies for it, they will more than likely take a space/raise the points, no?

You say there's such a minority cheating - fine. It's a minority compared to how many per year? Certainly not as small as you're making it out to be - especially as you probably could get anywhere from 1-5 per school as a minimum. Stop trying to justify it tbh.

Emmpty

Now people seem to just be using the fact that theres people cheating to justify to themselves a reason for them possibly not getting the course they want.

People cheat every year, so if you don't get your course its your own problem. I'm sure the people who cheated won't be any closer to getting theirs after seeing a formula or two during the exams either.

People cheat in every part of life so I'd get used to it and spend more time concentrating on your exams then wondering what people are up to in the bathroom.

dudara

Today's Blogwatch in the Irish Times

What Students Are Saying On The Blogs

Im doing my leaving cert too this year and there’s a girl in my room cheating. Everyday she hands up her old mobile phone at the door before going in so ask not to arouse suspicion. And every day she then proceeds to take her actual mobile from her pocket, place it on her lap and copy all the answers down that she needs.

Maikki – boards.ie

Well done to the poster (OP) who spilt the beans on cheating. It’s nice to see someone bothering to take action. Like anything there are vulnerabilities and no one bothers until something happens. So well done for bringing it to the attention of the State Exams Commission (SEC) and national media, whether you wanted to or not.

Adro947 – boards.ie

I don’t mind saying it but I have cheated in three of my exams already. Mainly keywords of quotes to trigger the rest of the quote and stuff like that. Don’t see what the big deal is because everyone is out for themselves in the exams and what the person each side of you does isn’t going to affect your overall results. If you’re not going to be selfish and ruthless during the LC when are you going to be??

Moaning about people who are doing what they have to succeed won’t get you anywhere . . . Like the old saying goes, ‘nice guys finish last’! I’m certainly not going to apologise to anybody for taking what is, IMO, a calculated risk.

Tommytomtom – boards.ie

I hope the SEC track you down and withhold your Leaving Cert results. How somebody has the audacity to cheat, and then come on to a national forum and brag about it, is beyond me.

Mayoegian – boards.ie

If there is mass cheating happening then it is the fault of the exam supervisors for not taking enough care, for example to check for notes in bathrooms or for phones on laps. You can blame a kid for cheating, but theyre under huge pressure and if there is an easy way to get an edge, theyll take it.

Nljmegan – boards.ie

When I sat my leaving cert many years ago, several people cheated by making numerous trips to the loo where they had hidden a text book.

Microbio – boards.ie

I sat my LC in 1997 cheating was common even then. People would write stuff on the bottom of pencil cases, rulers, hands, tiny pieces of paper I have even seen someone cover there legs and arms with stuff about poets and Equations for maths. You will always get cheating in exams. I’m 31 now and would still cheat if I had an exam now.

Wize – boards.ie

In fairness, the only notes people usually bring with them are hard to remember stuff, like stupid poems you had to learn or laws etc.

Gone Drinking – boards.ie

Ha! When the cheaters get out of their exam and log back on they’re gonna get pretty nervous when they see the reaction from media and SEC.

Michael 09 – boards.ie

Now, no disrespect to OP, but maybe the OP is a brainbox at school and is jealous of the less brighter pupils cheating?? Just a suggestion, don’t want anyone to get mad!

Lollipop95 – boards.ie

Can’t really follow your logic on that part . . . if she was smart and didn’t feel the need to cheat, why would she need to feel jealous of the cheaters?

Chaoticmess – boards.ie

I cheated. Why would I care about some person down the country who didn’t get their place?

Mick Daly – boards.ie

chaoticmess

randylonghorn wrote: »

Bless you for giving me some hope for our young people!

[/VictorMeldrew]

Romeo and Juliet is the only part of my JC English course I remember, and I enjoyed King Lear too. I think that plenty of young people would actually enjoy shakespeare, but I think the problem with it is that, as the title of a facebook group says: "My english teacher finds more meaning in a book than the author." This scrutinizing and examining every single aspect of a text in such detail is what makes it less interesting, especially to a lot of younger people if they don't have a strong passion for literature - understanding the text is fine, but going to extremes removes the enjoyment of the text...save that for Uni and the real enthusiasts.

Same with the comparative, I used to love the film "Billy Elliot." Now it was part of my comparative, I had to examine it in such fine detail I just didn't enjoy it any more, and will never be able to watch it and enjoy it again without noticing camera angles and props etc.

randylonghorn wrote: »

The best maths teacher I ever had was (technically) not qualified according to their definition; the worst one I had was!!

Just have to comment there (I know it's off topic, sorry!:o) - I saw the same sort of thing in my school. I eventually worked out why it was - the maths teacher who had done a maths degree etc taught maths from a different perspective all-together. She had done it for so long, she expected everyone else to suddenly understand it immediately too, and explained everything as if she was talking to a group of experts, not a group of students.

With the other two HL maths teachers, this wasn't the case at all!

randylonghorn wrote: »

Especially in the context of this thread, one of the main issues with continuous assessment can be ensuring that it is entirely the candidate's own work.

To make everyone happy, rather than having a continuous assessment involving coursework, just have a number of exams throughout the two years - make the system more modular. Or do what they do with the Geography field work - it must be completely in the classroom. Any work that is to be assessed must only be done in the classroom.

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

I once spoke with a very passionate girl from Australia. She just finished her studies and loved to work in Ireland and the Irish education system to support special learning, she had great ideas but she was warned that her motivation and passion for teaching would die quickly in Ireland. Why? teachers here don't want to learn new methods! she now works in the UK

Now this thread is all over the news, so the word is out, BUT! the same people that have to advise on that change are more then likely the same the prevent that change!

..so we are stuck yet again..

And this is why Ireland is still in the 1800s!

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

Maybe this has been said before but I find it ironic how people can find the time to complain here instead of studying, and then rant about how people who cheat steal their college place.

Maybe if they spent their time studying, not on here ranting, they wouldn't worry so much about cheaters getting higher points than them in their exams.

I like to take a break from studying and I've had a couple of laughs out of this thread already. Helps to keep a clear head for studying.

sorry for being completely off-topic in half of that!

Bob the Builder

Mr Cawley wrote: »

Personally I think the English exam is the greatest measure of natural ability.

Yeah, I'd agree to some extent. It's a subject you can't bluff.

fufureida wrote: »

English paper 1 should never change.

Paper 2 is a piece of poop.

Erm, yeah, I'd agree. I'd like to see Paper 1 at the end of fifth year though... And paper 2 at the end of 6th year... That way, both papers would be challenged.

dudara wrote: »

Today's Blogwatch in the Irish Times

Ehhhhh, not very broad is it? Whoever done it was in a rush and must have just stole everything from here

dudara

Bob the Builder wrote: »

Ehhhhh, not very broad is it? Whoever done it was in a rush and must have just stole everything from here

Well this is where all the controversy in the media started from, so it's not surprising that this is where they're drawing their quotes from. Plus, people have actually admitted to cheating on this thread, or have ammoral views on cheating - this makes for good quotes for the paper.

highlydebased

In today's indo

STUDENTS who boast online about cheating in their Leaving Cert could get away with it because officials are unable to check the claims.

The only way they can be tracked down is if the State Examinations Commission (SEC) goes to court to find out who they are.

On one website yesterday, an entry from "Tommytomtom" claimed he had cheated in three of his exams already and added "sure they could track the IP but they still couldn't prove whether I cheated or not because it's already happened and I wasn't caught".

Other posts give specific instances of alleged cheating, although it is difficult, if not impossible, to verify them. One says a male candidate went to the bathroom four times. Another claims candidates had notes under their jumpers or in socks and that some were using mobile phones.

Another claims to have seen students hiding English poetry texts in the school toilets and there have been claims of students in mobile phone contact with fellow students. A male student was alleged to have had notes in his hoodie.

Penalties for being caught range from withholding part or all of the results to being debarred from entering state exams for a specified period.

Last year, 92 grades were withheld at Leaving and Junior Cert levels but nobody has yet been debarred from sitting state exams since the SEC was set up in 2003.

Suspicious

The SEC confirmed it was monitoring social networking sites and said it had good relationships with the providers of the sites. It is known, for example, that boards.ie contacts the commission to alert it to any suspicious traffic but it is precluded from giving the names of the people who post the entries.

The commission insisted yesterday it would investigate thoroughly any suggestion, suspicion or allegation of impropriety in relation to the exams.

"Given the scale of the exams, it is inevitable that alleged irregularities will occasionally arise. These could involve, for example, allegations of copying or issues of authenticity or impersonation," said a spokesperson.

WIZE

The only way they can be tracked down is if the State Examinations Commission (SEC) goes to court to find out who they are.

On one website yesterday, an entry from "Tommytomtom" claimed he had cheated in three of his exams already and added "sure they could track the IP but they still couldn't prove whether I cheated or not because it's already happened and I wasn't caught".

''Bad boys, bad boys
Watcha gonna do whatcha gonna do
When they come for you'':pac:

Bob the Builder

randylonghorn wrote: »

The best maths teacher I ever had was (technically) not qualified according to their definition; the worst one I had was!!

Ok, I'm not arguing that people shouldn't have the best teachers possible, or that they shouldn't be fully qualified ... but having maths in final year in degree doesn't necessarily mean you will be good at teaching it, or vice versa.

You are absolutley correct. We value education far too highly in someone's ability to teach. But saying that, my english teacher taught us a broad range of stuff, but most of which was irrelevant for the LC. But still worthwhile information.

I'm not surprised people are cheating at the same time. All a thread like this does is make us question the morals/merits of the leaving cert 'system'...

Solidarity

Each to their own, I suppose.
I did my LC two years ago so I'm long out of the game.

princessx

Go for it and all. It's not fair on all the other people that actualy try to get there fair and square.
If everyone does well from the cheating the people that have actually studied and done it fairly will have to suffer when college points go up high because everyone cheating did so well. And may get the college place over people like yourselves.
There was something on the radio the other day about something about cheating in the leaving cert and it is going to be investigated everywhere.
Anyways cheating brings no happiness and it will catch up on them at some stage.

Gill_Pie

I 'd say most of the people who actually are cheating havent done the work, and will probably not do particularly well anyway, so i wouldnt worry about your college place.

I hope they find you Mick Daly

thefly

Fair play to the cheaters. Cheating isn't a bad thing. It shows a will to win and a drive to succeed at any cost. The LC is b***s*** anyway. I cheated my nuts off in the LC and it did me no harm. From notes written on my legs to essays written on bog roll to morse code pen clicking for the aural's IE one click for a 2 for b ect ect. Life is a dog eat dog world and the sooner these kids realise this the better. OP think of this as a life lesson


Cheat on people cheat on

ch252

Ha, this thread is bringing so many trolls its unbelievable....people aren't really that stupid to both cheat in the leaving cert. AND post it on the internet are they?! really...

And in response to above post, no, cheating does not show "a will to win and a drive to succeed at any cost" it shows you're scum, nothing else

Wile E. Coyote

thefly wrote: »

...to morse code pen clicking for the aural's IE one click for a 2 for b ect ect.

:rolleyes:

Of course you did. And no one noticed the constant click, click, click...

haiguise

dudara wrote: »

Today's Blogwatch in the Irish Times

person at the top of the list is in my school and was cheating again today, this person has cheated for nearly every exam so far. how is that fair to me or any other student in the country? Teachers and the exam superviser have been told numerous times and nothing has done, which has led me to believe this student is being protected due to who her father is. the scandel that would occur if the media and public found out would be huge. where is the fairness for the ordinary people who just want to do well?

whatnext

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Of course you did. And no one cared about the constant click, click, click...

Fixed

baaaa

So many lucky trolls here getting their work published in the national papers

mylescullen

i'm an animal with lots of spots and belong to the cat family




i guess u could say im a cheetah

WIZE

mylescullen wrote: »

i'm an animal with lots of spots and belong to the cat family




i guess u could say im a cheetah

Or a Cat with Chicken Pox

ldxo15wus6fpgm

haiguise wrote: »

person at the top of the list is in my school and was cheating again today, this person has cheated for nearly every exam so far. how is that fair to me or any other student in the country? Teachers and the exam superviser have been told numerous times and nothing has done, which has led me to believe this student is being protected due to who her father is. the scandel that would occur if the media and public found out would be huge. where is the fairness for the ordinary people who just want to do well?

Seeing as it's nearly the end of the LC and you're getting no joy from the SEC I'd say give the independent a buzz

thefly

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Of course you did. And no one noticed the constant click, click, click...

Well you should know. I did it for Irish but I couldn't get someone to do it for French so I devised another plan. I got my mate to place his and on a certain part of the table i.e top left corner =a bottom left b ect ect.

This validates my point further. I had to think outside the box and come up with new and effective ways to cheat. Now tell me that's not clever. I used more skill and cunning than anyone that learns a question of by heart. That's all the LC is, memory. Whereas I had to think for myself come up with a strategy and follow it through. I use these skills eveyday in my current job and in life in general. I cant tell you the last time I needed Algebra in everyday life