Cheating in the Leaving Cert

smack my twitch up

randylonghorn wrote: »

Why did Yeats write the lines:

"Romantic Ireland's dead and gone
It's with O'Leary in his grave."

Yeats later admitted he was completely wrong and underestimated his contemporaries in that poem..?

randylonghorn wrote: »

For that matter, what percentage of the population actually took part in the Fenian Rising or other outbreaks in the previous century?

A small percentage without doubt, yet I dont believe that they should be ignored when saying that Ireland ignores the unpalatable, I think that is a harsh generalisation considering their achievements. I guess I just dont agree with the generalised point that you made when you consider that this country has been shaped by the polar opposite.

irish-anabel

smack my twitch up wrote: »

Yeats later admitted he was completely wrong and underestimated his contemporaries in that poem..?


A small percentage without doubt, yet I dont believe that they should be ignored when saying that Ireland ignores the unpalatable, I think that is a harsh generalisation considering their achievements. I guess I just dont agree with the generalised point that you made when you consider that this country has been shaped by the polar opposite.

to a thread titled cheating in the leaving cert....
this thread would be better off frozen

randylonghorn

smack my twitch up wrote: »

Yeats later admitted he was completely wrong and underestimated his contemporaries in that poem..?

And his second verdict, given the number who actually participated, was, in typical Yeats mode, as extreme as his first.

smack my twitch up wrote: »

A small percentage without doubt, yet I dont believe that they should be ignored when saying that Ireland ignores the unpalatable, I think that is a harsh generalisation considering their achievements. I guess I just dont agree with the generalised point that you made when you consider that this country has been shaped by the polar opposite.

In the sense that you mean it, this country, like many others has been shaped by a minority of activists flying in the face of a majority who were at best apathetic and often downright hostile. And generalisations are based on the majority, not on the minority, and in so doing do not insult the minority.

I note, by the way, that you didn't choose to respond to the more recent examples I cited!

Anyway, Anabel is correct, this is going way off-topic for this thread ... if you wish to debate it further, let me know and I can split off the relevant posts and transfer to a new thread in humanities or wherever.

smack my twitch up

randylonghorn wrote: »

In the sense that you mean it, this country, like many others has been shaped by a minority of activists flying in the face of a majority who were at best apathetic and often downright hostile. And generalisations are based on the majority, not on the minority, and in so doing do not insult the minority.

I'm sorry but I must disagree I think your generalisation would actually insult the minority in this case. Just because they were of a small number doesnt mean their achievements should go unnoticed.
But yes I apologise for going completely off-topic,that is all I have to say on the issue.
Thank you randylonghorns

randylonghorn

smack my twitch up wrote: »

I'm sorry but I must disagree I think your generalisation would actually insult the minority in this case. Just because they were of a small number doesnt mean their achievements should go unnoticed.

And I think "the minority" would agree with me.

Such issues frustrated them hugely in their own time, and I suspect such issues would continue to frustrate them in ours, were they still around!

And that is all I have to say on the subject!!! :cool:

MiamiMortimer

Blerdiii wrote: »

bahaha i know you are right but for me i cant stop texting in class and actually if i remember the conversation i remember what i was studying in class that day XD saved my ass for physics to remember some topics XD

Heehee, you never know, maybe that's where I went wrong on some subjects!!! If I'd had something else to remind me of some of the deathly boring definitions maybe I'd remember them better than I did in the Leaving The boring parts did pass me by regardless of whether I'd been trying to pay attention or not

randylonghorn

Reminder to all (including myself! )

Topic of thread is cheating in the LC!

Brendog

saw your post in the Irish Independent the other day......congratulations YOU'RE FAMOUS!!!!!:D

randylonghorn

Brendog wrote: »

saw your post in the Irish Independent the other day......congratulations YOU'RE FAMOUS!!!!!:D

0_o

Who is?

Doff

Some instances I've heard about or seen:

One guy was caught reading an essay off his phone in Irish and was removed from the room in a school my friends cousin is in. Apparently the examiner followed him out of the room and told him he would be unable to sit another exam for 10 years I think it is, To which the guy starting bawling he's eyes out screaming "My mam is going to kill me"

We were moved center for the exam and upstairs was the people doing the exams on tape. Downstairs was too small for everyone so we were all moved upstairs into a bigger room, 2 girls sat near the wall because the desks were not marked and they could hear people in the next room on the tape.

Some guy had answers recorded on his phone and done the old earphone up the sleeve trick and "Slouched" on his desk while writing.

Not too sure how accurate 1 and 3 are because there ones I was told but number 2 I heard the people talking about it because they were in my class.

inb4 irish times

EnoughIsEnough

... as this is not the place to make such libellous statements about specific institutions / schools.

PARARORY

Dublin scripts would be sent down the country to be marked, and down the country scripts to Dublin etc to avoid things like this

Not neccessarily , my teacher once got a script - recognised the handwriting and style of writing - spoke to the chief examiner and it turned out it was one of his own students ; might have been from a private grind or something though as it would be unlikely they would be in the same school! He passed it on to another corrector because he didnt want to correct it!

randylonghorn

EnoughIsEnough wrote: »

... as this is not the place to make such libellous statements about specific institutions / schools.

God, lads, how blatant do the trolls have to be before ye see through them?!

Deleted for the sake of peace! :rolleyes:

Walls

Boards is in the Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0619/1224272854232.html

Killer Pigeon

Walls wrote: »

Boards is in the Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0619/1224272854232.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItwu7PNdNo

After all, Senator Ted Kennedy was expelled from Harvard for cheating in an exam. Could students who use up-to-the minute technology to access key information and use it intelligently be exactly what this country needs? Discuss.

Looks like the Irish Times has brought up a topic ... or a bit of an off topic.

randylonghorn

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

After all, Senator Ted Kennedy was expelled from Harvard for cheating in an exam. Could students who use up-to-the minute technology to access key information and use it intelligently be exactly what this country needs? Discuss.

Looks like the Irish Times has brought up a topic ... or a bit of an off topic.

Oh, I agree with her that the country does indeed need "students who use up-to-the minute technology to access key information and use it intelligently".

But we have thousands of student who are more than capable of doing that and who still retain a bit of honesty and integrity.

The two are in no way interdependent so it's a bit of a non-question really.

Good soundbyte, though.

jumpguy

randylonghorn wrote: »

Oh, I agree with her that the country does indeed need "students who use up-to-the minute technology to access key information and use it intelligently".

But we have thousands of student who are more than capable of doing that and who still retain a bit of honesty and integrity.

The two are in no way interdependent so it's a bit of a non-question really.

Good soundbyte, though.

I completely agree. Ted Kennedy may have cheated, but I doubt in a Harvard exam, he was forcing someone else who played the game honestly out of a spot, it'd be just to get onto a next year. Might be wrong though! :P

Back on topic: There is cheating in state exams, but it's quite minor stuff when it happens. It's also not very rampant, but it does happen (it'd be naive to think it doesn't tbh). It's not the kind of stuff that could bring someone from a D3 to a C1 though.

I may as well point out a few flaws in the system I've noticed from attending the exams this year:

First of all, the superintendents. Going off the toilet, and leaving the attendant at the door. Do they expect the attendant, often younger than the LC cohort he/she is watching, to maintain quietness? Not a hope. It's also highly unlikely the attendant will report anything. This is because the attendant often knows or vaguely knows everyone the year above him/her, especially in smaller schools.

The attendants cannot be expected to take over for the superintendent for anything beyond 30 seconds tbh. Superintendents should never leave the hall. If they cannot hold their wee for a few hours, then they aren't fit for the job. Students often have to hold it longer during classes.

In fairness, cheating this way is fairly unlikely, as the LCers are often focussed on their exam and the superintendent usually returns quite promptly.

Finally, just bad superintending. Not walking around regularly and just sitting there for the entire exam. People sneak mobile phones, even books into exams. If you're supervising any more than 5 or 6 people, then it's a wise choice to walk around the classroom at random and regular intervals, and watch the candidates closely. Be awake.

Similiar to how the English Paper 1 disaster last year woke up the SEC, I think this thread might do the same. The integrity of the exam is compromised in several minor ways, for many years, probably since the LC exams began. It'd be naive to think this can be stopped completely, but a better job can be done.

ChristianLC

I know this topic is dying out now seen as the Leaving Cert is practically over but I'd like to offer my opinion on it. If someone was cheating in the exam hall where I was at, it wouldn't have bothered me at all. I was completely focused on how well I could do and I could care less if anyone else was cheating or not. I wanted to see how well I could do and I think that's an attitude most should have instead of trying to get involved with whatever someone else is doing.

double GG

I actually think, well with my superintendent that it would be rather easy to cheat. After handing out all the papers etc. she simply sits at the top of the room for the entire exam. I, myself would never cheat in state exams, they are exams for a reason. But all I am saying is it would be very very easy under my circumstances. I am sitting beside a radiator and I could easily cram notes into the corrugated top of it and simply pull them out whenever I needed them. Also I could easily write a load on the inside of my pencil case and/or stick a small sheet to the inside of my pencil case. Also using the calculator cover. I could write a formula on the table. There are numerous ways I could but I see no point, why cheat to get yourself into a course or university you don't deserve or whatever. It would be easy in my opinion but the 7 years would be a long time if all went bad, why I don't . The level of superintending should improve. One superintendent at the top of a room of 20 students is too much, well especially if she proceeds to only pour tea from her flask and eat crisps AND let her phone ring twice in successive days. I'm sure there are some very good superintendents out there, but my one is a bit...

Mick Daly

...ch

ChristianLC

We had two and while they did sit down for quite a bit, they did walk around the hall alot and would often take a seat in the middle of the everybody to inspect everything. Wouldn't have been easy to cheat with these two.

randylonghorn

jumpguy wrote: »

The integrity of the exam is compromised in several minor ways, for many years, probably since the LC exams began. It'd be naive to think this can be stopped completely, but a better job can be done.

Indeed ... and personally I think that a better job used to be done.

Which is not to say that all superintendents are lax by any means (Christian's example below for example) but certainly from what has been said on this thread, and from what I have heard IRL from students and even teachers, some seem to take it pretty easy.

When the reality is that with the variety of new technologies available in particular, they need to up their game and be far more vigilant than they needed to be in the past.

ChristianLC wrote: »

We had two and while they did sit down for quite a bit, they did walk around the hall alot and would often take a seat in the middle of the everybody to inspect everything. Wouldn't have been easy to cheat with these two.

I remember that the super we had for LC usually slipped off his shoes so as not to be making noise, and walked around in his stockings. He tended to wander quite a bit, too, and would stand at the back for a few minutes watching everything. Unless you literally watched him all the time, it was pretty impossible to know where he would appear next ... he unexpectedly sidled up behind me at one point, and had to then help me retrieve the assorted pens and stuff I sent flying with the jump I made! I suspect people wouldn't be as quick to try cheating with a few more of his ilk around!

chaoticmess

double GG wrote: »

One superintendent at the top of a room of 20 students is too much

We had over 40 people in the room with only one superintendant! :eek:

randylonghorn wrote: »

I remember that the super we had for LC usually slipped off his shoes so as not to be making noise, and walked around in his stockings. He tended to wander quite a bit, too, and would stand at the back for a few minutes watching everything. Unless you literally watched him all the time, it was pretty impossible to know where he would appear next ... he unexpectedly sidled up behind me at one point, and had to then help me retrieve the assorted pens and stuff I sent flying with the jump I made! I suspect people wouldn't be as quick to try cheating with a few more of his ilk around!

Haha, the sneakiness you just described reminded me of a teacher my dad told me about. Everyone would be working away, the only sound the clock ticking, and this teacher would pace around the room slowly. As soon as he noticed a certain "concentration level" he would suddenly shout "Right Boys!!!" or something similar, making the whole class jump! haha, I don't think it'd be very often you'd find a teacher doing something like that for a laugh back in the 60s....

crazeecat

Samskeyti wrote: »

There's cheating happening in my school, the majority of students use the fact that the toilets are in our P.E hall and that the superintendents have no reason to follow them in. The students hide notes written from before the exam in their socks and pants and some even got away with having a phone on their lap for an entire paper and reading saved messages from it. Others used the bathroom to call students from other schools and got full answers on questions.

Our principal is a complete waster as students were caught cheating in the L.C.V.P exam and nothing was done about it. I thought if you were caught cheating that you couldn't sit another state exam? Should I inform the superintendents of how stupid they're being or e-mail the State Examinations Commission? I know for definate that Irish will be the exam that most will cheat on because of learning notes off by heart will prove too much effort for them. Help??

RAT:mad:

stainluss

crazeecat wrote: »

RAT:mad:

Yeah, good luck trying to get a college place with this 'courageoussness':rolleyes:

dazza_480

i remember for my leaving cert i wanted to go to the toilet this hadn't been discussed previously so i didn't know what was going on and he didn't say a word i was so scared i thought i was going to be raped

irish_man

jumpguy wrote: »

I completely agree. Ted Kennedy may have cheated, but I doubt in a Harvard exam, he was forcing someone else who played the game honestly out of a spot, it'd be just to get onto a next year. Might be wrong though! :P

Back on topic: There is cheating in state exams, but it's quite minor stuff when it happens. It's also not very rampant, but it does happen (it'd be naive to think it doesn't tbh). It's not the kind of stuff that could bring someone from a D3 to a C1 though.

I may as well point out a few flaws in the system I've noticed from attending the exams this year:

First of all, the superintendents. Going off the toilet, and leaving the attendant at the door. Do they expect the attendant, often younger than the LC cohort he/she is watching, to maintain quietness? Not a hope. It's also highly unlikely the attendant will report anything. This is because the attendant often knows or vaguely knows everyone the year above him/her, especially in smaller schools.

The attendants cannot be expected to take over for the superintendent for anything beyond 30 seconds tbh. Superintendents should never leave the hall. If they cannot hold their wee for a few hours, then they aren't fit for the job. Students often have to hold it longer during classes.

In fairness, cheating this way is fairly unlikely, as the LCers are often focussed on their exam and the superintendent usually returns quite promptly.

Finally, just bad superintending. Not walking around regularly and just sitting there for the entire exam. People sneak mobile phones, even books into exams. If you're supervising any more than 5 or 6 people, then it's a wise choice to walk around the classroom at random and regular intervals, and watch the candidates closely. Be awake.

Similiar to how the English Paper 1 disaster last year woke up the SEC, I think this thread might do the same. The integrity of the exam is compromised in several minor ways, for many years, probably since the LC exams began. It'd be naive to think this can be stopped completely, but a better job can be done.

A person I know could hardly speak Irish and had a few essays in the pocket one came up. They copied it straight. Same thing for paper 2.
They got a C2 with very very little irish

Professional Griefer

Does anyone know if anything happened in the end? Assuming they finished their investigation and all?

randylonghorn

You can guarantee no detailed information will be made available.

At most, we might hear in Sept. that "x number of candidates had their results withheld".

Dafydd Thomas

A guy in my school was given a book during an exam when he went to the toilet by one of the attendants. The fact that these attendants are students and that they know many of the students sitting the exams is a recipe for cheating. They should be sent to schools that they do not attend. Its only common sense.