Advice please on organising our lives around a retriever puppy!

davenewt

Hi all,

Bit of objective advice needed please. We are hoping to get a golden retriever puppy but we both currently work full-time during the week and are out of the house from 8am until 5pm.

Do not jump down my throat just yet. This is not a new un-researched idea, believe me! We've done a lot of reading up, both here and elsewhere, over the last few months.

We're hoping that one or both of us can arrange some flexibility via work, re. our hours, or potentially working from home at certain times, but we're not assuming this is going to happen immediately, or at all.

We were hoping to "solve" the daytime issue by getting home at lunchtimes ourselves (let's assume we can only do this once or twice per week), and on the days we cannot, either:

1) Asking our neighbour (who is retired and also has a dog) to pop in at lunchtimes...

and/or

2) Finding a friendly neighbourhood dog-walker to do the same (any recommendations for people who would provide this service in the Glasnevin/Drumcondra area?)

Does this sound good, bad, or otherwise?

Option 3 would be to get a door with a dog-flap and fence off a small area outside (e.g. patio area with a small kennel) so the dog could let itself in and out during the day - although from what we've been reading, I understand this shouldn't be necessary and might even be a bad idea while the puppy is still young?

Obviously it will spend most of the day inside. We have a small utility area off our kitchen which is approx 2m x 1m in size, with a washing machine taking up 1/3 of this space at the moment, and I was planning to put a gate up so the puppy could be left in this space for sleeping (and with a corner for relieving itself etc) during the day.

Again from what I've read, I understand this should be a nice comfortable space for the puppy to sleep etc. during the day, as long as it has some toys for distraction, and if we can deal with the lunchtime issue and someone will be around in the middle of the day for an hour or so for feeding and letting it outside.

Does this sound OK in terms of space for the puppy during the times it's left alone?

Final question - is there normally a timeframe after which (e.g. 4-6 months) the dog will be happy to be on its own from 8am til 5pm without ALWAYS needing someone to be around in the middle of the day?

We're not going to go ahead if we can't give the puppy a good home - we realise it may not be PERFECT in the SHORT TERM, but we don't want it to be less than a GOOD home to begin with... so any experienced advice would be gratefully appreciated

easyeason3

I was going to suggest adopting an older pup/ dog but if you're not home during the day then you probably won't get one.
Not every person that has a dog is at home all day either so you're not the only one in this situation.

By all means ask your neighbour to pop in & out to the pup to make sure he has water/ food etc. This is the most realistic option.

The utility is way too small in my opinion. If you're getting a puppy that's eight to ten weeks then you might get away with it for a week or two but otherwise I would suggest leaving him outside providing it's 100% secure & he has a proper house to go in & out of.

Puppies need space & I'd be afraid that the utility would be too small. Also it's a nice time of year to get a puppy used to being outside as it's so mild.

Really it's up to yourself OP but if you're gone for that length of time during the day & you want to get a retriever then be prepared to do some serious walking hail, rain or snow

crotalus667

davenewt wrote: »

Final question - is there normally a timeframe after which (e.g. 4-6 months) the dog will be happy to be on its own from 8am til 5pm without ALWAYS needing someone to be around in the middle of the day?

No , it really does vairy from dog to dog (and owner to owner)as to how they handel being left alone , have you considered day care ?? dog training ireland do it from 15 a day iirc ,

peasant

The simple fact of the matter is that a puppy needs just as much supervision, attention and training/schooling as a baby/toddler does.

You wouldn't leave a baby/toddler on its own for hours on end, would you?

In your situation, a puppy is out of the question. I' m not only saying so in the pup's interest, but in yours as well. The first few weeks and months in a pup's upbringing have a large effect on what kind of dog you're going to end up with in later years. A pup that doesn't get the full attention it needs will end up as an adult with loads of "issues" and not as the kind of dog you'd want to live with.

Don't do it.

easyeason3

peasant wrote: »

The simple fact of the matter is that a puppy needs just as much supervision, attention and training/schooling as a baby/toddler does.

You wouldn't leave a baby/toddler on its own for hours on end, would you?

In your situation, a puppy is out of the question. I' m not only saying so in the pup's interest, but in yours as well. The first few weeks and months in a pup's upbringing have a large effect on what kind of dog you're going to end up with in later years. A pup that doesn't get the full attention it needs will end up as an adult with loads of "issues" and not as the kind of dog you'd want to live with.

Don't do it.

I agree with what you are saying & it does have an affect on the personality of your dog.

When I got my pooch she was six weeks old, way too young to be taken from a litter but the mother had died & it was implied that if homes were not found then the pups would have to find 'alternative arrangements'. We all know what that means.

Anyway we took her in but as I'm working during the day she didn't get enough attention as a pup & as a result she can be a little wild at times & it was much more difficult to house train her.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't change her for the world & as dogs go she has a very good life with me but I often get an attack of the guilts even though I get family members to check in on her.

However if you still go ahead & get the retriever all I will say is start as you mean to go on with training & what's acceptable behaviour from the pup. I made the mistake of giving in one or two times & I had a job on my hands to get my pup on the right track again!

Let us know how you get on OP.

Vel

Someone I work with has the same circumstances as you and announced a couple of months ago that her and her partner were planning to get a pup. Despite my warnings/advice, they went ahead and are now living a bit of a nightmare. Going home at lunch for 30 minutes to break up what is in effect an 8 hour day alone for the pup isn't adequate. They are having major problems with toilet training, the neighbours are complaining of a howling dog and they are both stressed beyond belief.

I personally think it is extremely selfish to get a young pup and leave it home alone for such a long period of time. Its a decision based on what the people want rather than what is best for the dog. Pups need to be getting out regularly to reinforce toilet training and need lots of time invested in them in the early days. And retiever are particulalry high energy

We also had neighbours who did similar, got a boxer pup and left it in their apartment while they worked full time. This poor bored pup destroyed the apartment, toileted everywhere and was completely out of control and ended up being handed into the pound. They were nice enough people who just selfishly wanted a pup and didn't consider the consequences of not being able to give it the time it needed and in the end the pup was the one who suffered.

I don't understand why people won't consider an older dog in these circumstances. Some rescues have a blanket rule on not adopting to people who work fulltime but there are others who will take into account people's lifestyles and find a dog suitable for them.

It sounds like you have been thinking carefully about this, but even with friends, dog walkers etc. it doesn't sound to me like your lifestyle is suitable for a pup. Please have a re-think.

davenewt

Thanks all for your advice and input. Seems like the reality, although hard to admit, is to have a re-think at this stage - so that's exactly what we'll do.

Thanks again, and hopefully I'll be posting a thread with a more positive outcome in future

tk123

OP we have a GR pup and live in Glasnevin/Drumcondra so if you do get the puppy PM me if it needs a play mate - we take our walks in Griffith Park and it'll have loads of friends there

Our guy is 11 months and I think he would freak out if he was left alone all day and bark the place down - he likes to be with everyone. Luckily there's always somebody here or I can work from home so he always has company. Apart from that he's into everything so I wouldn't really leave him anyways because he'd wreck the place. We've already had to pave the garden because he turned into a mud pit!!!

Anyhoos the answer to your dilema is doggy day care at Dog Training Ireland!! Now don't laugh/dismiss it like 99% of the people I tell about it because it's brilliant!! It's €15 a day and you can drop them off at 8:00 (some people leave them in earlier at 7:30) and pick them up as late as 6:30. Our guy got snapped at by a terrier one morning and he got really really shy/afriad of other dogs so I took him to daycare twice a week so he could be socialized. The difference in him was amazing - much more confident (and calmer too because it wears him out) - the guys at DTI are brilliant and take care of all the dogs and he loves it there. He has sore legs at the moment so can't go to daycare but when he goes to his obidience he goes crazy in the car - he knows he's going to see his friends!!

Leaving Botanic Ave it takes me approx 20 mins to drive to DTI in the morning and I usually hit Bot. Ave around 5:00pm in the evening and again it's only 20-30 mins to collect him and the traffic is light enough on the way back too.

morganafay

I think it's ok for a dog to be alone for the day usually, but a puppy is kinda different. I've always had at least two dogs so that solved it for me. But it's a difficult one because most people can't be at home all day with the puppy.

Maybe if you tried doggie day care for maybe a few months, then when the pup is a bit older had someone walk him during the day? When he's older he should probably be fine to be left alone, and I'd leave him in the garden if it is secure and safe (unlikely to be stolen), because it'd be more interesting than being shut in the house.

i-digress

My husband and I just got a labrador retriever pup and I can honestly say that she wouldn't do well left alone all day. I'm a graduate research student, and if I go to archives I tend to leave our girl for four hours max. If I need to go for a full day I either wait until my husband has a day working from home or I give her to my mother to mind for the day. I know labs don't do well left alone for long periods of time, I think GR's might be the same.

Also because I work mostly at home, training her has been relatively easy. Puppies can only be trained in small bursts, so I can do a minute or so's training with her at various times throughout the day.

If you're worried about the dog developing separation anxiety, could you possibly consider another breed less prone to it, and maybe get two? It's not ideal to get two dogs together, but they'd be company for each other maybe.

morganafay

i-digress wrote: »

If you're worried about the dog developing separation anxiety, could you possibly consider another breed less prone to it, and maybe get two? It's not ideal to get two dogs together, but they'd be company for each other maybe.

I was thinking of suggesting getting two too. But then I don't know if they'd still be able to be left alone at such a young age, I don't know really. But I definitely do find that having two dogs is easier than having one. When I had one puppy she needed constant attention and would even cry at night but when I had more dogs and got puppies it was much easier because they'd be happy just spending time with the other dogs.

I know getting two would be a huge commitment though! Maybe even a kitten and a puppy would work, if someone could drop in at lunchtime to walk the pup or something. I don't know though, cos I've been in the situation.

tk123

Just to add a young retriever pup is only going to be able to have very limited excercise for a good few months (5 mins per month of age) so eg at 3 months you're only going to be able to walk it 15 mins. It's going to have a lot of energy to burn off the rest of the time and this is where imo you'll run into problems if it's left alone.

davenewt

tk123 wrote: »

OP we have a GR pup and live in Glasnevin/Drumcondra so if you do get the puppy PM me if it needs a play mate - we take our walks in Griffith Park and it'll have loads of friends there

Thanks so much for the offer. Might get in touch anyway even before we get a dog of our own, if that's cool?

tk123 wrote: »

We've already had to pave the garden because he turned into a mud pit!!!

!! I just laid a fresh new lawn at the back! At least we also have another area I was going to pave, so it shouldn't be too bad when we eventually go for it.

tk123 wrote: »

Anyhoos the answer to your dilema is doggy day care at Dog Training Ireland!! Now don't laugh/dismiss it like 99% of the people I tell about it because it's brilliant!! It's €15 a day

morganafay wrote: »

Maybe if you tried doggie day care for maybe a few months, then when the pup is a bit older had someone walk him during the day? When he's older he should probably be fine to be left alone

Thought about that but 15 quid a day (for the daycare at DTI) means adding 300 quid a month to the cost of keeping a dog... something we just couldn't justify, even for the cutest puppy!

i-digress wrote: »

If you're worried about the dog developing separation anxiety, could you possibly consider another breed less prone to it, and maybe get two? It's not ideal to get two dogs together, but they'd be company for each other maybe.

morganafay wrote: »

I was thinking of suggesting getting two too.

Thanks for the suggestion, but we just want the one - to begin with at least

tk123 wrote: »

It's going to have a lot of energy to burn off the rest of the time and this is where imo you'll run into problems if it's left alone.

True. At the end of the day I guess one of us is going to have to be working from home to make it an ideal situation for a puppy.

As this is going to be our first dog, we didn't want to get one with an "unknown history" (i.e. an older dog from a pound)... that may sound unfair to anyone else who has/had a dog from a pound, but for us, we'd much rather get a young dog and train it etc. ourselves, and grow with it... if that makes sense.

Anyway, a big thanks again to everyone for their input and suggestions! Fingers crossed our situation will change for the better over the coming months and enable us to get a puppy sometime in the not-too-distant future.

Happy at least that the decision to hold off for the moment is the right one.

Cheers all,
David.

messygirl

i bought my boyfriend as a dog (he wanted it it was a preplanned and thought out gift) and it was a retriever. He was left alone from 8.40 to 2.30/3.10 and he was fine and he spends most time running outside and likes having a chat, and having his breakfast. He is a very lazy mr man and loves playing fetch. Saying that he has about an acre to run around and trees and bushes to run in and out of. He stays in a utility room about 3 or 4metres by 1 and a half/two metres. If he is left at home for over that time he will probably pee. If you love and care for him when you are around him then its better than other homes. he is the most docile, friendly loving dog, and his family wouldnt be without him. I know other people and they have a yard and he is fed a low energy food to stop him being very energetic, and another couple have a dog and he has about less than an acre and he looks miserable because he is outside all the time, and no actual walks. My sister works at home and her dog is outside all the time too to walk himself and he is miserable and hyper, cos he doesnt get actual walks and attention. Not to mention he eats a crap load of shoes and barks a lot. The doggy we got barely barks and is a dote with everyone. If you love him/her and pay attention when he is around then it makes up for a lot. You can be at home all day and if you dont pay attention when he/she is at home then its not worth squat. Got my boyf a male and he is a big huggable bear. When he was a puppy he was a NIGHTMARE re eating things, digging and so on, but you could barely pick a better dog. If you were able to get an adult (that might be lazier and more docile) it would be better but think of what is best for you. My dog could hardly be a better companion but if you know it is a responsibility and are prepared to walk him, pet, brush, clip, pay attention, give nights out a miss (i remember himself cancelling a niht out cos "i cant leave him alone!") then you wont regret it. It is expensive and time consuming but the love and joy and laughs are priceless. I wouldnt trade him for anything, and I would kill to have him in my own house, i cant think of him without smiling and laughing how he ate a phone, the tv cord, tissues, taking things out of the car. Maybe you could housesit a dog for a week or two (when a friend/family is going on holiday?/offer to foster a dog with one of the many agencies?) and get an idea of what it is like, the time you need and expense, etc? You never know, you might end up keeping a foster dog too! best of luck anyway, if you are coming on here asking questions it is a step in a right direction and im sure you wil make fab doggy parents when you do decide to get one, when you know the time is right

morganafay

messygirl wrote: »

If you love and care for him when you are around him then its better than other homes.

I definitely agree with this. I don't think dogs need someone at home all day, it's just a bit of a problem while he is that young. Once he is maybe 4 or 5 months old he'd get more independant. It is better for a dog to have someone home all day, but it's not really realistic either, most people can't be at home all day, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't get a dog.

tk123

davenewt wrote: »

Thanks so much for the offer. Might get in touch anyway even before we get a dog of our own, if that's cool?

yep no probs! :pac:

davenewt wrote: »

Thought about that but 15 quid a day (for the daycare at DTI) means adding 300 quid a month to the cost of keeping a dog... something we just couldn't justify, even for the cutest puppy!

TBH a couple of times a week would be enough to knock the pup out - our guy would be knackered for a couple of days after it :pac: You could maybe do it for a few months until the pup is more independant?

Puppies are like kids - they need a routine. Once you get the pup into a routine it'll be more settled/content.

suziwalsh

Hey

Just for those who do not know, there are loads of rescue puppies looking for homes not just older dogs with a history. There are usually litters and mums surrendered in together and of almost any breed if you are prepared to wait for the right dog to come along. You will also get loads of back up and support which is great for first time dog owners an most medical fees are covered. If you are looking for a happy content family pet this is always the way to go. And for those who are worried about taking on an older dog and not being able to train him/her for most dogs it is easier to train them when they are past the puppy stages as they have much longer attention span. Most working dogs do not get formal training until they are at least 18 months old and do not start working until they are over 2 years of age. Also you can opt for a rescue where dogs are in foster care homes rather than in kennels.

Also the majority of younger pups and dogs surrendered to rescues or pounds are from families who work full time, who thought that they would be able to manage a pup while being out of the home long hours. For anyone thinking of getting a pup while working full time why not try fostering over a weekend for a rescue or the guide dogs or dogs for the disabled and see how you manage with a pup before taking on the commitment. Then you will know if a dog is for your current lifestyle. I have no idea why more people do not try fostering before taking on a life long commitment of a dog. Although maybe thats the reason the rescues and pounds are so full.

Best of luck in your decision and great to see you are looking for advice and taking it on board responsibly well done I know its easy to just take a puppy on and do the thinking later!

davenewt

suziwalsh wrote: »

Just for those who do not know, there are loads of rescue puppies looking for homes not just older dogs with a history. There are usually litters and mums surrendered in together and of almost any breed if you are prepared to wait for the right dog to come along.

Only concern here for us would be getting an IKC-registered dog, especially with regards to Golden Retrievers, I understand this is important re. hip and eye scored parents etc. Would I be right in assuming you wouldn't have this "reassurance" with a rescue dog?

suziwalsh wrote: »

For anyone thinking of getting a pup while working full time why not try fostering over a weekend for a rescue or the guide dogs or dogs for the disabled and see how you manage with a pup before taking on the commitment. Then you will know if a dog is for your current lifestyle.

Sounds like a good idea in theory - might just look into it! Any more info/links etc. would be appreciated if you have any

Thanks!

morganafay

tk123 wrote: »

TBH a couple of times a week would be enough to knock the pup out - our guy would be knackered for a couple of days after it :pac: You could maybe do it for a few months until the pup is more independant?

That sounds like a good idea, if you would be able to take the puppy to daycare on like tuesday and thursday or something, I assume you'd be around during the weekend? You'd probably only have to do that for a couple of months until the puppy was a bit older.

peasant

morganafay wrote: »

That sounds like a good idea, if you would be able to take the puppy to daycare on like tuesday and thursday or something, I assume you'd be around during the weekend? You'd probably only have to do that for a couple of months until the puppy was a bit older.

Personally I think that's a pretty bad idea as far as training is concerned.
The key for training a pup is routine, routine, routine.

Dogs learn by connecting locations, sounds, smells, times with commands (eventually). A pup that learns house training in daycare will not automatically know what to do at home and vice versa.
If anything, the different locations and different people will only delay the learning process and you will have one very confused pup.

morganafay

peasant wrote: »

Personally I think that's a pretty bad idea as far as training is concerned.
The key for training a pup is routine, routine, routine.

Dogs learn by connecting locations, sounds, smells, times with commands (eventually). A pup that learns house training in daycare will not automatically know what to do at home and vice versa.
If anything, the different locations and different people will only delay the learning process and you will have one very confused pup.

I guess so. But I just think that there must be some solution, because most people who get puppies can't be at home with it all day, so I wouldn't just give up on the idea of getting a puppy since the OP seems to really want one.

peasant

morganafay wrote: »

I guess so. But I just think that there must be some solution, because most people who get puppies can't be at home with it all day, so I wouldn't just give up on the idea of getting a puppy since the OP seems to really want one.

Most people who got a puppy and can't be at home with it shouldn't have done so in the first place, no matter how much they wanted to have one.

Thankfully the OP isn't one of them.

davenewt

peasant wrote: »

Most people who got a puppy and can't be at home with it shouldn't have done so in the first place, no matter how much they wanted to have one.

Thankfully the OP isn't one of them.

Thanks for recognising that It's just one of those facts of life that we can't all have what we want, right when we want it. If everyone in the world realised that, maybe it'd be a better place for us all.... hahaha.

Apologies for getting phoilosophical for a moment there :pac:

morganafay

peasant wrote: »

Most people who got a puppy and can't be at home with it shouldn't have done so in the first place, no matter how much they wanted to have one.

Thankfully the OP isn't one of them.

I know it isn't the ideal situation, it's far from ideal, but it isn't neccessarily a bad home if the person is away most of the day. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have a dog and wanted a puppy. I guess getting an older dog would be a better compromise in that situation, but I can definitely understand why people would want a puppy. I guess we can't all have exactly what we want.

suziwalsh

davenewt wrote: »

Only concern here for us would be getting an IKC-registered dog, especially with regards to Golden Retrievers, I understand this is important re. hip and eye scored parents etc. Would I be right in assuming you wouldn't have this "reassurance" with a rescue dog?


Sounds like a good idea in theory - might just look into it! Any more info/links etc. would be appreciated if you have any

Thanks!

Being IKC reg guarantees NOTHING unless you request hip/eye scores from the breeder and know what you are reading. Even still if the parents have good scores does not mean the pups will as problems can carry on through genetically from grandparents etc. Its always going to be a risk no matter what.

If you would like more info or details about fostering you are very welcome to PM as I am not sure I am allowed to post up info publically on the board as the admin do not allow it (can someone confirm this please?).